Does the Central Limit Theorem prove a Creator/Deity?

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posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by Gixxer
......just like people invented jesus christ.......



OK friend, you have evidence for such an extreme claim?

OT's awaitin....




posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 06:03 PM
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hello,

Without getting to scientific Different cultures have made their own forms of mathematics. The Mayans, Indians, Greeks, and Chinese all developed seperate math systems. Our mathematics today comes mainly from ideas developed in ancient India and Greece. Algebra and other topics were taken from India to Arabia, where they were then transferred to Europe. Most of our geometry comes from the Greeks. Calculus was developed in Europe by Sir Isaac Newton.

now i do not think you can use something man made to prove a mythical existence it's kind of like saying " my grilled cheese sandwich looks like jesus" proof!



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by Gixxer
hello,

Without getting to scientific Different cultures have made their own forms of mathematics. The Mayans, Indians, Greeks, and Chinese all developed seperate math systems. Our mathematics today comes mainly from ideas developed in ancient India and Greece. Algebra and other topics were taken from India to Arabia, where they were then transferred to Europe. Most of our geometry comes from the Greeks. Calculus was developed in Europe by Sir Isaac Newton.

now i do not think you can use something man made to prove a mythical existence it's kind of like saying " my grilled cheese sandwich looks like jesus" proof!



Grilled cheese? How'd you know? That what I had for dinner


Mythical? Don't you realize....the records of JC are....


....Historical.....

The four gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) are written in a reportive rather than creative fashion. Luke even states the intent of his writing: "Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us...Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus [a Roman official], so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught."1


The Gospels are geographically and culturally accurate.

The Gospels provide geographical details about the cities, rivers and seas, mountains, etc. And in reporting Jesus' interactions with people, the writers include cultural details such as the temple, customs, festivals, political leadership.

Nelson Glueck, a highly respected Jewish archaeologist has stated, "It may be stated categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever controverted a biblical reference."2 Archeology and historians have confirmed the accuracy of these specific facts.


It wouldn't be hard for the authors to have memorized Jesus' words.

Some have asked, "How could Jesus' words possibly be accurately recorded, if written down 20 or 30 years after Jesus said them?" We know that in the Jewish culture of Jesus' day, it was customary for Rabbis and their students to memorize enormous volumes of information and pass this on verbally to others. Rabbis would memorize the exact wording of the entire (Old Testament) Scriptures and volumes of oral laws. And words of Rabbis were often committed to memory (sometimes using a type of shorthand notation). This was deeply part of their culture.

In the same way, these disciples of Jesus carefully committed to memory the words of Jesus. The similarities between Matthew, Mark and Luke substantiate this. It's interesting to note that Jesus promised the disciples soon before he was crucified that "the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."3 Certainly the Spirit of God could help them remember everything Jesus said and did.


All of the miracles are presented as matter-of-fact, "this is how it was."

One typical example is the account in Luke, chapter 8, where Jesus brings a little girl back to life. Notice the details and the lack of mysticism in its reporting:

"Then a man named Jairus, a ruler of the synagogue, came and fell at Jesus' feet, pleading with him to come to his house because his only daughter, a girl of about twelve, was dying.

As Jesus was on his way, the crowds almost crushed him. And a woman was there who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years, but no one could heal her.

She came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak, and immediately her bleeding stopped.

"Who touched me?" Jesus asked. When they all denied it, Peter said, "Master, the people are crowding and pressing against you." But Jesus said, "Someone touched me; I know that power has gone out from me."

Then the woman, seeing that she could not go unnoticed, came trembling and fell at his feet. In the presence of all the people, she told why she had touched him and how she had been instantly healed. Then he said to her, "Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace."

While Jesus was still speaking, someone came from the house of Jairus, the synagogue ruler. "Your daughter is dead," he said. "Don't bother the teacher any more." Hearing this, Jesus said to Jairus, "Don't be afraid; just believe, and she will be healed."

When he arrived at the house of Jairus, he did not let anyone go in with him except Peter, John and James, and the child's father and mother. Meanwhile, all the people were wailing and mourning for her. "Stop wailing," Jesus said. "She is not dead but asleep." They laughed at him, knowing that she was dead.

But he took her by the hand and said, "My child, get up!" Her spirit returned, and at once she stood up. Then Jesus told them to give her something to eat. Her parents were astonished, but he ordered them not to tell anyone what had happened."

Like other accounts of Jesus' healing people, this has a ring of authenticity. If it were fiction, there are portions of it that would have been written differently. For example, in a fictional account there wouldn't be an interruption with something else happening.

If it were fiction, the people in mourning would not have laughed at Jesus' statement; get angry maybe, be hurt by it, but not laugh. And in writing fiction, would Jesus have ordered the parents to be quiet about it? You would expect the healing to make a grand point. But real life isn't always smooth. There are interruptions. People do react oddly. And Jesus had his own reasons for not wanting the parents to broadcast this. .


more, if you are ready: www.iamnext.com...



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by Gixxer
 



btw, have you seen/understood the CTL?

OT ASQ CSSBB



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by Gixxer
hello,

Without getting to scientific Different cultures have made their own forms of mathematics. The Mayans, Indians, Greeks, and Chinese all developed seperate math systems. Our mathematics today comes mainly from ideas developed in ancient India and Greece. Algebra and other topics were taken from India to Arabia, where they were then transferred to Europe. Most of our geometry comes from the Greeks. Calculus was developed in Europe by Sir Isaac Newton.

now i do not think you can use something man made to prove a mythical existence it's kind of like saying " my grilled cheese sandwich looks like jesus" proof!


Commonalities in design are self evident...they point to the obvious....which is a common designer. I don't need math to see them, they are just there, and I can observe them.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 06:17 PM
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More: www.iamnext.com...

More: www.michaelhorner.com...

More: Apostle Paul-"We demolish arguments and every pretention that
sets itself up against the knowledge of God..."
II Corinthians 10:5

You are fighting a losing battle, my friend....sorry.

U2U some more help, OT's ready
to bless them , too....



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 06:18 PM
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If Jc's records were actually historic fact you would not have to try and prove that fact with mathmatics , now i have no need or urge to try and sway your beleif in faith it is yours to do with as you will, my only goal is to make you understand "proof" is a strong word with a strict definition evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth.

so while your OP might be compelling it surely doesn't fit the definition of proof.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by John Matrix

Originally posted by Gixxer
hello,

Without getting to scientific Different cultures have made their own forms of mathematics. The Mayans, Indians, Greeks, and Chinese all developed seperate math systems. Our mathematics today comes mainly from ideas developed in ancient India and Greece. Algebra and other topics were taken from India to Arabia, where they were then transferred to Europe. Most of our geometry comes from the Greeks. Calculus was developed in Europe by Sir Isaac Newton.

now i do not think you can use something man made to prove a mythical existence it's kind of like saying " my grilled cheese sandwich looks like jesus" proof!


Commonalities in design are self evident...they point to the obvious....which is a common designer. I don't need math to see them, they are just there, and I can observe them.


"see" them, huh? reminds me of Saul of Tarsus...

Romans 1:20 (New International Version)
20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."

....without excuse....

What a sobering thought huh?

Scarry, too!

OT

4someatleast....



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by Gixxer
If Jc's records were actually historic fact you would not have to try and prove that fact with mathmatics , now i have no need or urge to try and sway your beleif in faith it is yours to do with as you will, my only goal is to make you understand "proof" is a strong word with a strict definition evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth.

so while your OP might be compelling it surely doesn't fit the definition of proof.



Gixxer, fair post....

Quite true friend!

Thx!

OT wishes you well!



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by Gixxer
If Jc's records were actually historic fact you would not have to try and prove that fact with mathmatics , ......


I guess the bogey here is...if you/we SEEK him with ALL our hearts...we will find HIM.....

OT's trying to do all he can, that's all....as a MBB, I'm still on the journey friend....

OT



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 06:28 PM
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And i wish you well on your journey.

Have a great day.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by Gixxer
If Jc's records were actually historic fact you would not have to try and prove that fact with mathmatics , now i have no need or urge to try and sway your beleif in faith it is yours to do with as you will, my only goal is to make you understand "proof" is a strong word with a strict definition evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth.

so while your OP might be compelling it surely doesn't fit the definition of proof.


The life and history of Jesus is well documented with more written about him than Plato or Aristotle. Do you question their life, history, or existence as well?



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by Gixxer
And i wish you well on your journey.

Have a great day.


I just looked at your avatar, you are new to ATS...welcome friend!

More on OT: pls see: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Pls let me know your thoughts after reviwing, ok?

OT



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by John Matrix

The life and history of Jesus is well documented with more written about him than Plato or Aristotle. Do you question their life, history, or existence as well?



probably not!

Why?

Because...

Hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

OT humbly/respectfully thinks its the ACCOUNTABILITY thing...

OT

PS: Edit....that damn mirror's in my face too! Wish I could avoid, but I can't.....LORD KNOWS I TRIED....


Since the 70's its been all good tho....

[edit on 9-9-2009 by OldThinker]



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by Gixxer
And i wish you well on your journey.

Have a great day.


Gixxer, please review: www.tonycampolo.org...

It changed my life....

OT

PS: Please join with me on the CTL thing, ok? We are in this together, right?



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
Hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

OT humbly/respectfully thinks its the ACCOUNTABILITY thing...

OT


Exactly. I understand you post completely. Good choice from the word by the way. I'm partial to the NIV. In the early 80's it really opened things up for me that reading King Jimmy for many years was unable to do.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by John Matrix
......

OT humbly/respectfully thinks its the ACCOUNTABILITY thing...

OT

Exactly. I understand you post completely. .. [/




quote]

Hey John, thx....

Skeptics/Atheists/Doubters, are you out there????????

Come on now...do your due diligence, ok?

Look up the CLT, and related materials, ok??????

This is more ATS ground-breaking stuff...and WE together can break new ground....

Who would have thought it? Fundi's and atheists, working together, in the pursuit of truth..????

Get on board, and post!!!!!!



OT

[edit on 9-9-2009 by OldThinker]



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 08:35 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 


Plato and Aristotle never claimed to be the son of god as far as I know... Maybe I am missing the comparison? I have no problem believing that they lived and did what they did, as those actions would be in the possibility of REALITY. When you start claiming "son of a deity," it begs questioning. Also, as far as more being written about jesus than was written about those two, you could also claim the same about "harry potter."



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 08:42 PM
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Oh, also, my thoughts on this as a whole.. I agree that math, as we understand it, can not tell us that much about the metaphysical. math has been developed by man for wordly causes, and differs from place to place. Who is to say that OUR math is right? What we see as something whole may in fact be two halves of a "proper" measurement, or any other number of fractions or multiples. Also, as I understand it this has a bit to do with probability... Thats all well and good on paper, but things don't always work out the way that probability says they will... it can only be used as a general guide and could in no way take into account EVERY variable needed to make an accurate, 100% model of anything.

If I have misstated or misunderstood something, please let me know! i am up for conversation on this, but not arguing and childish name calling, and am glad to see this thread has remained civil, so far.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by ganja
....math has been developed by man for wordly causes....



Do you really think that? "DEVELOPED?"

I dunno? maybe DISCOVERED?

OT thinks you mean.......


The human discovery of the truth of MATH, has been used as 'knowledge' to further the sinfulness of domination of other man....right?

Come on back to OT, ok?

btw, I know more than you....but I won't ACT that way....

JC is the WAY, TRUTH, and LIFE....you will eventuallly 'SEE' this....BUT HE IS A GENTLEMEN...was it he, who taught....power corrupts? and that absolute power corrupts, absolutely? YEP....look into it!


OT isn't a prophet!!!!!! Why? Because I have a 5ft 2" wife who rips me a new one EVERYDAY........





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