Zero Point Energy, Ok I need advice here very badly

Originally posted by MAC269
reply to post by IntastellaBurst

 

Dear IntastellaBurst

Frankly I wish I was cleaver enough to steal the technology however certainly I have no intention of doing so.

This guy comes across as a really genuine up front guy and this device is not just for him and certainly not for me it is for the world and the betterment of mankind.

However I am under no elusion of would happen to it in the wrong hands.

This is what I want to avoid a all costs. This one is for us.

This is as far as I need to read in this thread.

If what you say above is accurate and true for both of you, then there is no need for secrecy or non-disclosure between the two of you, or any other genuine party, nor patents for that matter.

If it works for real, and can produce meaningful ZPE, I'll back it financially and market it to boot. U2U me and let's get started now.

reply to post by ecoparity


There's a lot of common sense in that post.

Common sense does seem to elude inventors though, why is that?

Originally posted by PrisonerOfSociety

Originally posted by daniel_g
2- The description violates conservation of momentum.

Wishy washy BS. You can't accept old laws as new science. Please explain how moons orbit planets, where is the conservation of energy; explain how electrons orbit the nucleus. Where does the energy come from to keep these motions in a perpetual state.

There are quantum forces that must exist that feeds the micro & macroscopic Multiverse like a galactic glow-lamp, that our technology can't measure because of the frequencies involved.

Here's a UFO patent that seemed to have got through.

Rotational EM is definitely the key to ZPE.

Moons and "electron orbits" as you call them do obey physical laws. Quantum physics explains "electron orbits" very nicely. But under classical physics and atomic models the electron would spiral into the nucleus emitting photons as it goes very quickly. Clearly this doesn't happen.

That is not to say that all our current physics is correct - it is just a good approximation for a good amount of what we can measure.

However, I do take your point that just because something is described as a "law" it doesnt mean we wont ever find a way around it.

The OP should ask for the devices volume, then it is an easy job to calculate the maximum energy that could be delivered by the best battery technology in said volume. A proper test would be conducted in a calorimiter but I can give instruction on how test to your satisfaction upon request.

I have tested a few devices in my time and as another poster said, it never works on the test day!

Hmmm...

Advice...a very "slippery slope"...

I see a lot of business angles here...

Jests...disbelief's...

A few offer reasons why this is improbable...

Myself...I beleive in Onward...Upward...

Ever see the LED flashlights that work by shaking them?

Or...radios that work by cranking them up?

Yes...I know...well duh they have capacitance devices built in...

What is a Capacitor and how does it do what it does?

I worked on TV's for 20+ years and I can tell you...a picture tube holds a hell of a lot of potential!!!

Yep it's not what yer lookin for, but, expand...

Edit to add: not much difference in HV between a 13" and a 27" standard CRT...and when they say it's "the amps...not the volts"...a "tube" can produce both!

I've been thrown ~5-~10 ft...being in the wrong path at the wrong time

nuff said...

[edit on 9/8/2009 by Hx3_1963]

The lack of any published, peer-reviewed scientific validation of
ZPE (aka Zero Point Energy) or any OTHER "Free Energy" device
has been the bane of arm-chair researchers and afficionados world-wide
for many a decade.

The largest issue has been the "Free Energy" Inventors themselves
who, in many cases, have REFUSED to become part of the validation
solution and become parts of it's biggest problem by steadfastly refusing
to have their devices evaluated by competent and accredited scientists
from the disciplines of Mechanical & Electrical Engineering, Physics
and Graduate-level Mathematics.

The "Gold Proof" of a free energy device is this magical equation:

Watts Per Unit of Time = ( Volts x Amps ) per unit of time

and it's derivative scientific boolean-based comparison:

if Output_Wattage > Input_Wattage then
Is_It_Free_Energy := YES
else
Is_It_Free_Energy := NO;

Again....if the output wattage per designated long-term unit of time
is greater than the input wattage per designated long-term unit of time
then the free energy device in question can be scientifically
validated as being True Free Energy.

I don't want to hear about devices measured in volts or ohms
which are UTTERLY MEANINGLESS measurements by themselves.
I could state that a device outputs 50,000 Volts which is meaningless
without a corresponding measurement of current declared in Amps.

Ergo....when stated in the proper manner:

50,000 volts x 1/100000 amps = 0.5 watts
which can't even power a single LED for a bit longer
than my mom can spit a watermelon seed into a garbage can.

HOWEVER:

50,000 volts x 10 amps = 500,000 watts
is enough to power a whole neighbourhood
of large houses with overactive teenagers blasting
their stereos at volume 11 for hours and hours on end.

---

So acceptable units of measurement and time are an ESSENTIAL item
of interest that MUST be stated when displaying statistics about how much
WORK a free energy device can produce and the commonly accepted
units are Watts Per Unit of Time --- i.e. Total Output Watts Per Hour of
Running Time is a good start!

Then we must detail the statistics of LOWEST AND HIGHEST PEAK VOLTAGE
AND AMPERAGE sampled over a specified unit of running time (i.e. at least
one hour) and then include AVERAGE AND MEAN VOLTAGE output sampled
over a long-term test of say 48 to 72 hours. These statistics will give
evaluators a method to see if there is any Periodicity of Output so that
under-voltage/amperage and over-voltage/amperage conditions can be
graphed and charted for evidence of cyclic output activity over longer
periods of running time.

The reason for measuring this, is that modern electronic devices have
specific restrictions when it comes to power. If there is an electrical
source that is Periodic in nature, it would be real pesky to have
periodic power surges and power sags damage your rather valuable
computers, microwave ovens, stereos and $3000 plasma TV's.

Again...proper MEASUREMENT with properly calibrated instruments
is CRUCIAL to evaluating a Free Energy Device in a scientifically
acceptable and valid manner. So I hope ALL OF YOU INVENTORS
ACCEPT that your devices REQUIRE such proper measurement
before ANY investor or buying public will even LOOK at your
power production system with anything OTHER THAN
dismissive skepticism.


Hardware Suggestions:

Calibration and Test Equipment:

us.fluke.com...

www.transcat.com...

www.tek.com...

Cheaper Versions of above:

www.rc-electronics-usa.com...

Build It Yourself Versions of Above:

www.electronics-lab.com...



Any Comments and Extensions Would be Appreciated!

reply to post by readerone


Dear readerone

Thanks for all that, there is a lot that is negative there but it helps all the same.

Yes I have told him that proof on concept is the first step. Indeed first he has to prove it to me.

To this end he tells me that I will get to see it in operation in about three days. So let hold our breath till then.

This device is potentially the biggest thing the world has ever seen and need to be made public. When people have made their own and know it works our lords and masters will have no choice but to develop the concept. Will that is my thinking right now anyway.

reply to post by RussianScientists


Dear RussianScientists

All points noted and I am sure you are right.

I am leaning towards the idea of just putting the plans on the internet or more to the point persuading him to do just that. Once I know it works that is.

The point here is that this guy will be the guy to change the world.

What would the media pay for interviews with him. Hopefully that alone will make him his fortune.

reply to post by ken10


Dear ken10

Yes I am becoming to believe you are right just get it out there on the net and let the media pay the bill. What do you think they will pay to interview the guy that changed the world?

reply to post by StargateSG7
And...your post would suggest you have at least a Associates Degree in Electronics?

I would hope?

I do...(verification supplied upon request)

I've been in Electronic for 35 of my 46 Yrs...(Earlier if you take poking stuff in the back of a B/W TV in 1967 as "Repair" just 'cause I couldn't see it good...)

I still say...back to the future...not the movie...but that cap...not as far off as it was once thought...

Capacitance
en.wikipedia.org...

1.414...3.14159...Sq...think...I can still remember the formulas...

I'd try to post some but, better to just "Google" it now days..

[edit on 9/8/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by daniel_g


Dear daniel_g

I can just about afford the $1.00 in gas to go see.

Since the early 1900’s this world has been going in the wrong direction with energy which is probably the most important thing on the planet today. Just may be I have a chance to help change that. Therefore I will do what I can, I just hope if the opportunity arises it’s enough.

Originally posted by Hx3_1963
reply to post by StargateSG7

 

And...your post would suggest you have at least a Associates Degree in Electronics?

I would hope?

I do...(verification supplied upon request)

I've been in Electronic for 35 of my 46 Yrs...(Earlier if you take poking stuff in the back of a B/W TV in 1967 as "Repair" just 'cause I couldn't see it good...)

I still say...back to the future...not he movie...but that cap...not as far off as it was once thought...

---

I have a TRADE AND LAYMAN'S KNOWLEDGE of electronics but no official
accreditation such as a BsEE or MsEE although I have designed and
prototyped custom motherboard designs for hardware-based DSP
(Digital Signal Processing) systems and general CPU-based
multi-processor systems used in real-time aerospace avionics
and synthetic vision applications. Basically I've aquired my knowledge
through the school of "Many Hard Knocks and Electric Shocks" !!!!!

I should note that I would NOT be truly qualified or certified to
evaluate any free energy device other than within a general layman's
end-user evaluation for personal use. For more extensive accreditation
and evaluation I would defer to someone who has a Bachelor or
Master of Electrical Engineering from a well-known US or Canadian
university such as Georgia Tech, MIT, Stanford, UBC, SFU, Waterloo, etc.

My own college accreditation is a Video Production Diploma from
the Southern Alberta Institute of Technology (SAIT CTSR 1993)
which qualifies me to run a TV station and operate all that
fancy multi-million dollar video editing and broadcast gear.
Then I have almost 17 years of computer programming,
computers systems design and mechanical systems design
experience aquired through trial and error for business
and personal hobby applications.

Other than that I KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT ANYTHING !!!!!!

reply to post by RogerT


Dear RogerT

Yes I meant every word of that, I am getting on in years and have long forgotten my ambition of my youthful days.

Let us get to the point in a few days time when hopefully I will have seen the working model.

I have to convince the inventor at that time to go public as it would seam that it is the only way. Then I will get back to you.

reply to post by StargateSG7


Dear StargateSG7

Thanks for that which is all very helpful.

However this sort of testing will be a little down the road.

As I understand it so far he has a working model which consists of a stator and rotor. This is driven by a magnetic field.

So far all he has is a spinning shaft with nothing as yet attached to it. I have asked him to fit a pulley and belt to drive a secondhand automotive alternator that can light a bulb.

There is no power going in I am told at this time only perpetual motion.

If we can prove the concept that way we will go from there.

reply to post by MAC269


Hi Mac 269,

I think he would be a great hero of the world if he was able to buckle down and realized a patent for a working device for free energy will never fly because the patent office will not give patents on over unity devices; and then there is the military waiting to suck up any such patents for free if one tries to apply for such a patent.

His and/or your best bet would be to video tape the unit if it really does produce over unity and then put videos on YouTube and other sites showing most of how its done, and then state that you have "THE OTHER VIDEO" which shows how to build it yourself from start to finish for "X" amount of dollars. Even put the "X" amount of dollars video for purchase on Ebay, and the other video on Ebay for the Price of Shipping and Handling "Only" and charge a $5 flat rate to any where in the USA and $7 dollars to any other country.

If the device really works and can power a car or a regular home, I'm sure he/you can send a fax to many a tabloid/magazine like the Wall Street Journal, Popular Mechanics, ect.. and they would give you/him a full free page to advertise it on; if you asked and told them your story.

Something is better than nothing.

reply to post by RussianScientists


Dear RussianScientists

Thanks for that good ideas, they would bring something in.

Providing this concept works and hopefully I will see it in a few days, the concept is worth all the cash in the world and the man should be given a hero’s welcome to New York, a Tic a Tape parade.

Now what will the reality be???

A suggestion for "open sourcing" the technology:

Start a thread on overunity.com, and post a complete description of the device there. Post as much information as you can. While the forum is populated by a lot of dreamers and kooks --(reminds me of some other fora... *ahem!*)-- there are some very capable researchers and engineers there who will go out of their way to replicate the device if they are provided enough information and some credible evidence that it is worth pursuing. As an avid troll on that forum, I can attest to the fact that the hardcore members have a lot of experience investigating these kind of claims, and one would be hard-pressed to find a better place to discuss the invention. Once you release it, (if it can be replicated), it would be very hard to suppress.

While I suggest you should start at overunity.com, don't limit the disclosure to just one forum. Get it out there in as many places as you can.

Even if the device is just a "proof of concept", I suspect you will generate a lot of feedback and discussion from the folks in the "free energy" world if there is any promise inherent in the machine at all -- provided you -(or your friend) are willing to share.

I have seen thousands of such claims come and go, so don't be surprised if this one turns out like all the others. But don't be discouraged, either. Open investigation of a flawed concept often yields interesting and fruitful spinoffs.

reply to post by zerotensor


Thanks for the info when it has been proved to me I will do just that and see what is forth coming.

Originally posted by StargateSG7
The "Gold Proof" of a free energy device is this magical equation:

Watts Per Unit of Time = ( Volts x Amps ) per unit of time

50,000 volts x 1/100000 amps = 0.5 watts
which can't even power a single LED for a bit longer
than my mom can spit a watermelon seed into a garbage can.

The above is correct only for measurements made with a purely resistive load or with steady DC. For inductive or capacitive loads there is a phase shift between voltage and current which may result in your wattage calculations being incorrect.

I would never use a couple of digital multimeters to measure voltage and current to accurately determine the power output/consumption of a device. Digital multimeters are good at measuring steady DC and AC at mains frequencies. Many will get AC current wrong due to imperfect sine waveforms. True RMS meters will give much more accurate current results.

As I stated in my previous post a calorimeter is the best way to determine efficiency. Many universities will have one big enough and will hire it to you complete with a postgrad to operate it for a day.

If the inventor can demonstrate that there are no internal or external power supplies and the device rotates for an hour then I think you can be pretty sure he is on to something.


[edit on 9/9/2009 by LightFantastic]

reply to post by MAC269


Hmmmm. Well the most important thing is to educate yourself on these devices first. Their uses, practicability, expense of manufacturing, types of free energy systems and so on. I agree with a lot of the guys that have posted on this thread to be very careful cause they could be a scam. Also you want to be careful dealing with these devices because of the possible unpleasant visit you may get form a Black Coat. This seems to be a prevalent thing among free energy tinkerers because some of the devices are tapping into a field that the BlackOp guys can detect. So be observant. Also many of these devices dont work because they are conscious based. Meaning the device works based on the conscious level of the user. Many of the UFO craft that are seen doing these amazing maneuvers are controlled through consciousness. I know that sounds crazy but this has been mentioned in many reports form people that worked in back engineering downed or crashed ET space craft. So you may want to keep that in mind during the process.

I would first do some extensive research on free energy. Books are available from Brian O'Leary about this subject and if you can get your hands on Tom Beardens: Energy From the Vacuum videos that may really help you. Also Dr. Steven Greer has a wonderful site were you can read through all the scientific papers on this and many subjects related to energy at www.theorionproject.org....You can download a 2000 page document that detail how to build a number of free energy devices from, projectavalon.org...projectavalon.org....

Dr. Greer's paper to president Obama was very detailed and explained a number of different types of free energy devices. That's also available for download at his site Orion Project. Devices from electromagnetic to electrostatic can be built and that can give a good understanding of what you want.

This info can be reviewed by you and you can decide how to go about building one of these devices. The document will also let you see what is going into the product as you purchase the individual components. I would get a good electrical engineer or the guy that you say wants your funding and make him sign a NDA( Non Disclosure Agreement) stating his commitment not to talk about it to anyone and that you will hold the rights to the finished product. And if you have to do the damn thing yourself. That way you don't have to worry about anybody jamming you up. You may need help when you DIY cause of the technical delima's that may occur.

Remember my friend your treading on possibly dangerous waters. The powers that be from my research are malicious when it comes to these types of technologies. I wish you all the best and I hope the info I gave you is helpful. Just stay observant. You can send me a pm if you need further assistance.

reply to post by LightFantastic


PLUS, any readings taken and measured, are averages.

One other little note: with ZPE, or radiant energy, you can't measure the voltage or amperage between the source and the target.

No current instruments will measure what's in transition.

You can only measure what's in the source, and what's actually manifesting itself in the target.

So while you may have six AAA batteries powering the circuit, nothing shows up in between, and yet at the target, you find that you're getting 12V@600A.

Through a hair fine wire.

Impossible.

But it does.