An observation. Big Boomers should beleive in the afterlife, too.

I've made no secret of being Christian. I believe when I die, I will go to my God. I'm not sure what'll happen there, but whatever it is will be good. I feel it in my soul. But I was thinking about those who don't believe in God. Those who believe the universe through the big-bang theory or many other scientific origin lines.

My old man and I were talking about this. Let's lay this one out.

1. Every object in the universe has a gravitational effect on every other object, though the effect is limited by distance and the mass of the two objects.
2. Eventually, every bit of mass in the universe will again be together. Then... another big bang. Repeat ad nauseum.
3. This happens an infinite number of times.
4. During one of these times, every cell in the universe will be in exactly the same position it is now. Meaning Earth, life, and US will be exactly the same as we are now. Again.
5. Eventually, this will occur with humans having chemical infomormatin embedded in them, memories of THIS life.

When you start playing with the ideas of death and infinity, the possiblities are pretty staggering.

Thoughts?

Apologies to the mods, meant to put this in Metaphysics arena.

[edit on 7-9-2009 by Arrowmancer]

#2 has not been resolved. In fact, current observations show that the universe is expanding at an increasing rate. We don't have any idea what comes "next".

#3 is pure speculation.

Besides invoking infinity, your theory falls down on the above two points.

reply to post by Phage


#2 was a logical thought. Not saying it's proven, but the way the Big Bang theory was explained to me, this was an inevitability due to particular attraction. I understand this is not a scientific question, just wondering if there is an inevitable afterlife regardless of the belief system.

#3 was an assumption completely. No evidence at all. Going under the assumption that #2 happens, this is the logical conclusion.

I am truly curious about things like this. Going beyond the equation to what it means.

You really think we're in an ever-expanding universe? Why? Not questioning your comment, but asking for new information sources to read up on.

Since we don't really know what's going on speculation is fine. But I did want to point out that the evidence for a "big crunch" took a blow in 1999.

For me the question holds only intellectual interest. How it started and where it may end are irrelevant to me. I have no stake in either scenario.

gravityc-idealism.blogspot.com...

Not to throw stones, my friend, but you know this article is pretty much contrary to the expansion theory, right? He's saying that the expansion isn't possible the way it was put forth to him, whatever his source is.

Still, this isn't about gravitational theory. It's speculation. If 1 and 2 were a given, wouldn't it be logical to assume 3, 4 and 5 would be as well?

[edit on 7-9-2009 by Arrowmancer]

reply to post by Arrowmancer

Like I said, the apparent accelerating expansion has caused some rethinking.

If #1 and #2 are given, #3 is still speculative. Invoking infinity is problematic. If the crunch is on the way, there is nothing which ensures the next bang will result in a universe in which gravity works the same way or even exists at all (see #4). If there is no gravity, or if its analog turns out to be a repulsive rather than an attractive force, that's it. Done. Endless expansion.

[edit on 9/7/2009 by Phage]

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Arrowmancer

 

Like I said, the apparent accelerating expansion has caused some rethinking.

If #1 and #2 are given, #3 is still speculative. Invoking infinity is problematic. If the crunch is on the way, there is nothing which ensures the next bang will result in a universe in which gravity works the same way or even exists at all (see #4). If there is no gravity, or if its analog turns out to be a repulsive rather than an attractive force, that's it. Done. Endless expansion.



[edit on 9/7/2009 by Phage]

Damnit! Good point. Can I delete my own thread? I've been speculating about this for YEARS... you wiped it in about twenty minutes. *weep*

But you have opened up a lot of other areas to think on.

reply to post by Arrowmancer


Nah. Keep it.
I don't usually go in for this kind of discussion but I was housepainting all day. Maybe that has something to do with it.

Originally posted by Arrowmancer
I've made no secret of being Christian. I believe when I die, I will go to my God.

Me too. (And because I'm a Christian, not just my God, but THE God...the only God.)

Originally posted by Arrowmancer
But I was thinking about those who don't believe in God. Those who believe the universe through the big-bang theory or many other scientific origin lines.

Not all who believe in the Big Bang are atheists. I believe in the Big Bang. Also, non-believers will also experience conscious existence beyond the grave...if not in the interim, then definitely in the general resurrection.

Originally posted by Arrowmancer
2. Eventually, every bit of mass in the universe will again be together. Then... another big bang. Repeat ad nauseum.

I don't believe this will be what happens. Since I am a Christian, I believe in the coming New Heavens and New Earth. The universe will be renovated, but won't suffer a heat death or Big Crunch billions of years from now. The return of Christ and the judgment will take place long, long before that becomes a possibility.

Originally posted by Arrowmancer
4. During one of these times, every cell in the universe will be in exactly the same position it is now. Meaning Earth, life, and US will be exactly the same as we are now. Again.

That's quite an assumption. Even if there were a cycle of bangs and crunches, each cycle would result in a completely different outcome.

Originally posted by Arrowmancer
5. Eventually, this will occur with humans having chemical infomormatin embedded in them, memories of THIS life.

If your idea is true, then this has already been going on for all of eternity...do you have these memories of past universes now? Of course not. And there would be no way to have discrete memories of past universal lives imprinted on your current universal incarnation, since that information would be dissipated in each big crunch. But, cyclic universes are hoo-ha, anyway.


[edit on 7-9-2009 by Praetorian Guard]

Deconstructing the post didn't make much sense as our friend PHAGE *grumble* had already wiped out the entire idea. I guess I'd been hanging on to this since childhood and it never occurred to me to advance my thinking on it as I aged. Kind of like how a person never rethinks a fairy tale.

Again, we were playing with the laws of infinity. When infinity is at play, everything is possible as well as nothing at all.

But what if I believe in God AND the big bang theory? See even science says that they don't know where the big bang came from. So in my mind I believe that every reaction has an equal and opposite reaction therefore "something" started the big bang and I think that "something" is God.

Now I think God operates under a different set of rules than our universe and that's why we can't comprehend It. I also believe God does not have a gender and is not a big white man walking around. I also think Jesus (if he truly was divine) is God's SON not God.

I also think that if there is not God, then what is the point of life.

I am not Christian and my mention of Jesus was if it is a true fact that Jesus was alive and all that.



[edit on 9-9-2009 by humandefense02]

I've given this some thought, as well. The human mind cannot truly understand the concept of infinity. Everything in our life, everything in this world is finite. There is an end to all things. Anything living dies, every structure crumbles, even our sun will go die eventually. It may be hundreds of thousands of years, but it will happen. The idea that there is no beginning or end to a thing... it will never be truly understood by us. We can grasp the concept but a deep understanding can't happen because it's not something we can experience.

Big Band and bible creation are mutually exclusive. God took 6 days to create our universe and rested on the 7th. A lot of people think that this is wacko, but I look around and see everything on this planet functioning together, a world of such variance and just capable of sustaining us. Then, evolution and adaptation. And I think of how that happened. Things are just too complex and ruling out the idea of a Creator is the height of arrogance. I will concede that the bible may be misunderstood or translated out of context if everyone else would concede that perhaps this isn't all just some random cosmic joke.

Why do you and other people take Genesis as fact? I thought it was common knowledge humans made that up. My catholic school teacher even says humans made it up. We all know that the "little holes in the sky" are not holes but stars. Come on. Sorry but come on.

I was taught it was fact and have found no reason to disbelieve it. The Bubble Theory, however, has caused some confusion. It's no more difficult to believe than the rest of the bible, and I believe that, as well.

(Genesis... right at the beginning, if you lay out a mental diagram you get water, earth, heaven, more water...)

I think that the majority of the Bible is "real" but I think it was created so that people could somehow understand what God is. But in reality God is impossible to comprehend. Most religions are designed to understand what God is. I just don't believe that the afterlife is some kind of fairytale where theres pearly gates and angels and cities. I think it's defintely some kind of natural space like place. Astral Plane I guess comes to mind. Again it's probably something really weird that no one could even imagine.

Let us expound on facts, here.

1. We know there is SOMETHING after death. Whatever science or religion you believe in, there are simple facts that cannot be explained away involving death. Some people die for awhile... then come back to life. Medical sources go through their usual clueless phase to let us linger before providing some ridiculous story about why it happened.
2. Ghosts, spirits, and unexplained phenomena associated with death have been recorded and document by reputable researchers.
3. We have just begun to chart the human brain. The mind, itself, is a completely different animal. The mind is capable of more than we would like to think. So far, we've documented (again, by credible researchers and scientists) telekinesis, remote viewing, prophecy, etc... There's more here than meets the eye.

A brain is a functional organ. Different parts of the brain control different functions of our body. We have discovered that some parts lead to mechanical control of our extremeties, other parts fine tune it. Which part gives us the desire to reach the stars, the need to defy everything we know is law (such as gravity, speed constraints) in order to achieve MORE.

reply to post by Arrowmancer


Science really has no idea what's going on and I find comfort in that fact

The idea that no matter how much we learn and think we know about our Universe that we are continuously discovering new things that raise dozens and dozens of new questions while failing to put most of the old ones to rest. Your theory is quite interesting and it is a similar conclusion that I came to a few years ago.

My line of thinking went similar to yours in that I first assumed that the Universe would one day crunch and then explode again in another big bang and that it would do so an infinite number of times.

Then my brain exploded

I realized that if it is infinite that every possible Universe, and an infinite number of impossible ones, would eventually come to be. Everything I can imagine and an infinite number of things I can't MUST eventually come to be.

There is no time, there is only this one infinite instant in which everything and nothing, infinity and oblivion, exist simultaneously

We also have to realize that the government is keeping information about aliens from us. Knowing what they know and what the aliens have taught us and also what they have taught ancient sumerians might help us in understanding God.

Some people believe (David Icke) that the aliens had some kind of a war with God. I don't believe this but it's interesting because even if it's a false statement you have to wonder what led ancient people to believe that.

I don't want to get off topic with aliens but there's something definetely weird.

Originally posted by Arrowmancer
Big Band and bible creation are mutually exclusive. God took 6 days to create our universe and rested on the 7th. A lot of people think that this is wacko,...

Just thought Id add the bible [mistranslated and deformed from the Sumerian] also says a day to us is like 1000 years to ''God''.. so that would make those 6 days 6000 years, to ''God'' [ who was actually twin brothers named Enqi and Enlil ] in THEIR ...planet. Nibiru




[edit on 17-9-2009 by Observer_X]