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Israel approves construction of more settlements

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posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 10:12 AM
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Israel approves construction of more settlements


www.cnn.com

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak has approved the construction of 455 housing units in the West Bank, his office said Monday.

The move comes as Israel and the United States have been increasingly at odds over the settlement issue.

U.S. President Barack Obama has insisted Israel freeze all settlement activity as a necessary step toward advancing negotiations with Palestinians.

(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 10:12 AM
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There is nothing quite as questionable as your nation’s defense minister approving construction of civilian housing!
As always the excuse is for more living space. The existing illegal settlements on the West Bank have over spilled their town limits evidently and rather than expanding said fortified towns (not that, that would be any more legitimate) the good old defense minister just encourages them to make more forts!

One has to wonder as the West Bank Palestinian towns teem with humanity if they too could build additional settlements on the disputed territories that previous peace accords and treaties that Israel has signed and the United Nations both have promised to the Palestinians…you know when the Israelis get done building forts on it.

After all the only reason the defense minister would be involved is because it’s territory they are not legally allowed to build on and the whole effort becomes a defensive measure against the people who own the land and the International Body and treaties that have declared the land should be returned and does not rightfully belong on them to build.

Of course is title is defense minister, but I must say the whole practice sounds quite offensive to me!


www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 10:18 AM
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The Jewish settlements are spread throughout the Palestinian West Bank. Israel maintains the settlements are needed to accommodate growth from residents of existing settlements.

Chief Palestinian negotiator Saed Erakat said Israel's approval of new settlements is a direct challenge to the international efforts to restart negotiations.

"Israel's decision to approve the construction of over 450 new settlement units nullifies any effect that a settlement freeze, when and if announced, will have," he said. "It further undermines faith in the peace process, and the belief that Israel is a credible partner for peace."



One really has to wonder with all the existing population centers in Israel proper how it is why it is that they truly can not absorb 450 more existing families into them?

I suppose if we hoped a boat or a plane over to Israel with an aim to stay for an extended period the Real Estate sections of all the newspapers are devoid of homes and apartments to purchase and rent?

Me thinks not! So why the blatant charade then? In the end it does undermine Israel’s credibility as a negotiating partner, and it’s truly not excusable based on what other parties may or may not have supposedly done in the past to undermine their own credibility.

Each day is after all a new day, and those who always look to the past for bad examples to establish a precedent to do something equally bad and stupid today are doomed to repeat the past. In Israel’s case that’s an endless cycle of war and violence that they never loose an opportunity to decry and denounce, but seem to never seize on an opportunity to stop inviting it.



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 10:33 AM
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Honestly, I'm almost willing to take this as a direct challenge to the US. We've heard much about the Obama administration's disapproval of further settlement expansion and our desire for effective peace talks betwee the Palenstinians and Israelis. This is blatantly antagonistic and, to me, it's Israel telling the US that no matter what we, or the rest of the world, say they are going to continue expanding settlements illegally until there are no more Palestinian territories.

It is completely beyond me, at this point, to understand why the US or the UN puts up with Israel anymore. If it weren't for the billions in aid we send them they would have a real hard time existing. Yet, like a spoiled child, they come with their hands out and spit in our face.

There is no such thing as "negotiations" when Israel is involved. They may show up, they may talk, but in the end they will do what they want with total disregard for it's parent country or it's supposed allies.

Of course, any effort to sanction or punish Israel is always met with the harshest of criticism and the most ridiculous claims of racism, antisemitism and the advocation of genocide. Israel knows it can literally get away with murder as long as people are afraid of being labeled antisemitic by the pro-Israeli lobbyists and politicians.

Israel needs sanctions, we need to be firm and serious with them, we need to show them we mean business.

Spare the rod, spoil the child.



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by Shadowflux
 


The international community might be in love with Obama's image but the Israelis and many of their supporters here in the United States sure aren't.

Obama is shaping up to be a very weak president as he bumbles through one crisis after another with a lot of often inflamatory half measures that really don't accomplish much but drama and controversy.

International leaders like those in Israel do see that, and they have little reason to respect, or fear, or consider what a weak and innefective U.S. President has to say.

The real travesty is we pay for all this nonsense in Israel one way or another, and we pay them to sign these treaties and accords like Camp David and Oslo. What good though is paying the parties to these treaties as an incentive to sign them when they don't actually abide by them?

What good is it to keep funding and arming Israel when it continues to willfully do the things that invite hostility, terrorism, international rancor and war?



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


This is exactly what I'm saying. I don't think anyone is afraid of Obama, I mean he won the election on the "Buddy buddy, let's get a beer and talk about sports" platform. I think these actions by Israel are meant to show the world that they care little for Obama and are not afraid of him taking action anytime soon.

It's been a while since I've heard a president actually come out and voice any form of opposition to Israel, people took note and Israel felt the need to reassure everyone that they will continue to be the war mongers they have always been.

Don't get me wrong, I don't really think Obama is going to take time off of his multiple vacations and outings with the wife and kids to actually take any sort of action against Israel.

Hell, maybe everything he's said about Israel is just gesturing, pretending to be concerned while having no intention of stopping anything.

I do maintain that this is a slap in the face to the USA and Israel is continuing to demean us in the eyes of the international community. If we can't even get Israel, a country who would vanish without our support, to do what we ask how can we expect to get other, more openly antagonistic and indepenant countries, to do what we ask?



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by Shadowflux
 


The last time a U.S. President stood up to them, and it was over West Bank Housing was George H.W. Bush, Sr. when he vetoed Loan Gaurantees for 10 billion dollars that the U.S. Congress had approved to basically function as a cosigner and gaurantor Israel would pay back the loans.

Bush, Sr. vetoed it saying it violated the spirits of the Oslo accords and the AIPAC crowd went to war in an all out offensive that they publicly vowed that they would get enough votes in Congress to override the Presidential veto.

The lobbying and rhetoric got so ugly that eventually the Israeli Prime Minister asked the American Jewish/Israeli/Zionist lobbyists to cease and desist in the attempt as it was hurting the Israeli Nation's public image with mainstream America at that point.

The lobbyists backed off and there was no attempt to override the veto from congress but the Press went after Bush Sr. bigtime after that. It was less than a year from the election and he had around 72% approval ratings on the strength of the First Gulf War victory. The Press kept at him so hard on everything from A-Z after that point that he couldn't even win reelection.

It's virtually political suicide for an American politician who wants reelected to take on the Israelis on something like this.

I wouldn't look to Obama whose White House is nothing but a contrivance at trying to constantly win popularity contests and photo opportunities taking on a defiant Israel, and a defiant Israel knows he is not going to.



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 11:24 AM
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What Israel is doing there is CRIMINAL: one has to be blind to don't see it.
The major difference now is that they are hurring up because US gov.t is going to STOP covering their butts: expressed in simple terms, this means that even if they drop just a rock to the wrong side, ALL arab nations will be involved into some HEAVY conflict. The problem is not Iran, the problem is who is violating international laws and human rights: you decide who is doing it.



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 11:26 AM
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Neither side wants a Palestinian state in the West Bank. Not Israel, not Fattah. I don't really see how independence would benefit the average Palestinian either, since they rely on Israel for their electricity supply, water management, medical care, internet connections, etc.

A two state solution is so last year. They had their opportunity at Camp David. Now the game has changed, and Fattah are now motivated more by fear of Hamas than a yearning for independence from Israel. They'll want to maintain the status quo and consolidate their power.

Fattah will stall talks as long as possible with preconditions about refugee rights of return etc, which they know the Israelis will never accept. Israel will carry on receiving Jewish immigrants and carry on building homes for them in the desert.

Back to business as usual, and all the while both sides will continue to pay lip service to Obama/Mitchell. And Palestinians will continue to live in squalor, and their leaders will carry on raking in the profits from the international community.

Advocates for Palestinians had their opportunity after Operation Cast Lead when the pressure was on Israel and the P.A. to come to an agreement. They blew it. Instead of putting their heads together and being smart, all they could do was bicker and demonize Israelis and scream hysterically. Not a smart way to engage people in negotiations if you ask me. This is the end result - neither side wants to play any more.



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by mattpryor
 


Ah Matt the non-Palestinian administrator and humanitarian speaking ever so wisely on their behalf!

Please Matt they don't have those basic infrastructure things because Israel denies them the chance to have or build them throug how it virtually imprisons them on their own land and controls the flow of what comes in and out of their borders.

Not to mention occassionally just moving in with tanks and blowing up what ever infrastructure they do have.

How about letting the Palestinians advocate for the Palestinians and you keep working on your skills for advocating for Israel instead...which is all you are in fact doing anyway.

Hail the benovelant dictators!



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 11:40 AM
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All I got to say, the outrage needs to become nuclear. What! plucky wants to nuke people?! That's not her! I am not saying "nuclear" in the literal-sense but in the figurative-sense. My soul screams hideously against actions such as this. When will it end? When will the good and decent shove a metal-spike through the face of oppression? I am waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting...will I have to do it myself? Everyone is going to let some dainty 30 year-old woman take down evil itself? Who's with me?!

plucky



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by pluckynoonez
 


It sounds like an appeal to Buffy the Vampyre Slayer plucky! One thing is for sure no one has found the mythical magical silver bullet that can put this beast down and out yet.

It's sad enough that people really want to do these things to one another, it's sadder still that they can other people to pay the cost of it and they do!

I just can't shake the feeling that carte blanche support for a foriegn nation even Israel that we bankroll is not what the forefathers wanted when they wrote the constitution and established the United States of America in Israel not the Middle East!



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 11:58 AM
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again they take more and more land from the palastinian people, they will never stop until the plastinians have nothing left, they are already in what is basically a jewish run super prison anyway. Now im not saying that they have never been wronged and i know they have many enemies in the area, but i think that these settlements have to stop! What is it they say the oppressed always become the oppressors.



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I'm just being honest about the reality on the ground. Fattah doesn't want an independent Palestinian state in the West Bank any more than Israel does. In fact no-one is advocating an independent Palestinian state now apart from the US. Everyone that actually lives there has pretty much given up on the idea.

Best you can hope for now is improved relations between Israelis and Palestinians, and work on that hatred on both sides to make life better for them. There are some good projects going on to work towards cohabitation, but it will take years to change long-standing attitudes. Maybe then the security fence may have a chance of coming down and more checkpoints might get dismantled. But not while Israelis think there's the slightest chance that a Semtex-clad "freedom fighter" is going to blow up the next school bus.



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 12:10 PM
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People tend to scoff at em when I say this but I honestly don't think Israel will still be around in 100 years. The area is far too volatile and they rely too heavily on support from the US which is struggling to support it's own people right now.

Think of how much has changed between 1900 and 2000. Read up on the crusades and how long "we" held the "Holy Land".

60 years is not a long time.



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by Shadowflux
 


by your prediction then most of the ME and some of europe will also be gone as israel uses the `samson` option and nukes everyone.

europe? yes they will NEVER forgive germany.



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by ukman2009
again they take more and more land from the palastinian people, they will never stop until the plastinians have nothing left, they are already in what is basically a jewish run super prison anyway. Now im not saying that they have never been wronged and i know they have many enemies in the area, but i think that these settlements have to stop! What is it they say the oppressed always become the oppressors.


Ultimately most people who see themselves as victims whether individually or collectively end up becoming victimizers themselves.

Its a terrible situation because the status quo has gone on so long, that the Israelis likely would be victimized in return if a Palestinian State ever achieved total parity or superiority.

There is so much bad blood on both sides.

I think the only real solution is to arm both sides near equally like the two koreas so they are both assured of mutual destruction if either attacks the other.

Israel certainly has no incentive to make peace and never really has, or any legitimate threat either for not making peace and seldom ever has.

In that kind of lopsided situation all you can really have is colonial style oppression which is by Israel's own admission why it broke the original accords with the British who ran the mandate that allowed them to immigrate there in the first place.

Neither side has made a right move since, but someone, somewhere has to be the first to stop the cycle and Israel is in a far better position of strength and dominance to be the one.



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by Harlequin
 


Which is exactly why Israel should be forced to follow the same rules governing nuclear weapons as the rest of the world.

I'm tired of Israel always being the exception to every rule.

One way or another, Israel is not long for this world



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by Shadowflux
 


the same rules which meant they tore up the UN resolution 3379 which denounced zionism as racism , and threw it in the face of un general assembly and i quote:


For us, the Jewish people, this resolution based on hatred, falsehood and arrogance, is devoid of any moral or legal value. For us, the Jewish people, this is no more than a piece of paper and we shall treat it as such."



Chaim Herzog , November 10th 1975.


that is how the zionists view the rest of the world and how they consider (or not) the opinion of others.



posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by mattpryor
 


I won't deny the Palestinian political system is corrupt and inept. So is ours here in the United States. Most Americans don't feel that our government truly represents our collective thinking and I would wager most Israelis based on how contentious Israeli politics are don't feel much different about their government either.

Not to mention the fact that as many prominent Israeli politicians end up in jail for various fudiciary crimes and abuse of office as do American ones.

The whole system Matt has been set up as a gravy train to enrich the few.

The Palestinian leadership controls the aide that is funnelled to them and lives well pretending to represent the people who much like us come election day are usually having to decide between the lesser of two evils when it comes to candidates.

What enriches the Palestinian leadership and what is good for the Palestinian people are likely two different things, just like here in America, and just like in Israel itself.

Political speakers more often than not speak to what's in their own interest and their primary benefactor and sponsors interest and not in the people's interest.

When you have an impoverished populace like the Palestinians who are dependent upon the political leadership for charitable handouts to sustain life it gives them an overwhelming control of the voting process come election day.

People just end up voting from where they think their largest handout is coming from and in Gaza's case that turned out to be Hamas when they could deliver more charity and services than Fatah.

The real problem is the lack of viable economic opportunites because Israel controls so much of the infrastructure within the occupied territories and the border crossings and transportation hubs, etc. ect.

They are afraid arguably for possibly good reason that if the Palestinians become to profitible it just leads to them weaponizing and becoming agressive, but that fails to take in to account the age old addage "The best revenge is living well"

The displaced indigenous first nation American peoples (aka the Indians) stopped rebelling and stopped fighting back at the point that they achieved enough economic parity to live well.

When you have a nice home, money in the bank, and a steak on the barbeque life gets a little to short to worry about what happened 60 or 40 or 20 years ago, because life is to enjoyable.

When people have nothing but the past, hopes and dreams and lamentations for better days lost and gone by, loves lost so to speak its what breeds the brooding contentions and unhappiness that eventually leads to violence out of desperation.

Ultimately Israel has to take a heck of a gamble and chance letting the Palestinians develop a real economy that is hands off from a sabatoge standpoint by the Israelis and hands on to guide it along to being profitible.

Now considering Israel's biggest corporation is teetering on bankruptcy thanks to a whole lot of now virtually worthless real estate holdings here in Miami maybe the Israelis wouldn't be the best mentors or guiding force in that regard, but developing the Palestinian economy and infrastructure and letting them control and profit off of both on a stree level not a political level is what's key to Israel easing a centuries worth of tensions and bad blood in my humble oppinion.



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