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I am a member of the English Defense League

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posted on Sep, 10 2009 @ 06:12 PM
reply to post by noangels

You mean when I imitate your posting style I come off like you?

two lines.

posted on Sep, 10 2009 @ 06:17 PM

Originally posted by poet1b
Guess what, this is what some men do.

I worked with a guy who used to be in the Leeds United 'Service Crew', which in short hand is the hooligan contingent of Leeds United football club. Most of the more tribalistic clubs have them, Manslaughter United, Millwall Head Hunters, Birmingham get the picture no doubt. In the late seventies, early eighties when I used to go watch Leeds regularly it started to get brutal in the stands when you got two major tribes against each other, so they stamped it out and though there was less fighting at the match, all it did was take it onto the streets. So there were further attempts to stop it. Now, as my friend told me, they call each other out and arrange fights after the match, or sometimes, just arrange a fight even if there isn't a match. They bus themselves out to some deserted spot and kick the crap out of each other. For them it was about having a battle and getting bloodied. Kills an afternoon I suppose.

[edit on 10-9-2009 by shamhat]

posted on Sep, 10 2009 @ 06:23 PM
reply to post by shamhat

Thanks, a star for you.

Nice avatar.

Who is the babe in the picture?

posted on Sep, 10 2009 @ 11:47 PM
Hi all,
I have just had a quick scan of this thread and wished to offer my own two cents.

I'm New York born, but grew up in London and now go to University in Birmingham (UK). Further more while up there I am involved in both local and student politics. As such I come into contact with many people both in and around Birmingham from a wide selection of political view points.

I was not present for the first EDL demonstration of Birmingham; however a friend of mine invited me, as a city centre resident, to attend the Council house meeting on what to do in relation to the EDL; and whether to ban them as was done in Luton.

I must say that my first impression of the EDL was that of a bunch of xenophobic football hooligans, fuelled up on cheap larger, and too many Red Bulls.

The line that I was pushing with my friend was that of removing all protest from the city centre, it is not only disruptive to transport but also a great annoyance to those who merely wish to go about their lives without intrusion. The protests earlier in the year over the matter of ‘Operation Cast Lead’ had left numerous shop windows smashed; a number of Jewish people violently and verbally abused; and decimated racial tensions.
Upon arriving, what we found was an overwhelming majority of people who did not live in the city centre and many, if not most, who lived even further away. These people had no obvious vested concerns about how it affected Birmingham or residents. Not to mention the image that it gave of the city to the rest of the country if not world.

What they were obviously concerned with was starting a fight. A parliamentary candidate for the ironically named 'Respect' party began riling up a number of young Asian chaps attending by pointing to the chief of police in Birmingham in an attempt to create a racial divide between themselves and the police. I have no doubt that normally these individuals would not have the foolishness to fall for such a cheap shot. But unfortunately on the day they seemed to. The atmosphere quickly changed and deteriorated faster than one could image possible.

In the end I had to leave due to the threatening atmosphere towards those of non Asian backgrounds. This was by no means a result of the majority attending, or any reflection of the impressive number of Asian MPs attending. But instead the result of this woman from ‘Respect’ who seemed to have no concern for Birmingham whatsoever but instead to push racial tensions to breaking point; much as her leader George Galloway did in Tower Hamlets in order to win a parliamentary seat.

(moving more up to date)

I was back again in Birmingham on the fifth and completely forgot about the planned second protest. The scene which I encountered was that one would hope to relegated to the most unstable and dangerous places on the planet. Vast lines of riot police with Perspex shield were taking up rank against lines of masked and balaclava wearing youths. Bricks were liberally being thrown at the police.

(it is notable that those EDL members were being contained in a separate part of the city)

In the end over 90 people were arrested that day. If we are to believe the official records this would imply that each EDL member was arrested 3 times each, despite the fact that most were escorted out of the city. This is no to say that they were without blame. The arrival of these people dressed in football shirts and clearly drunk shows them to be nothing more than what I describe in my first impressions. However is because, not despite these reasons that one should not take them seriously. By doing so in the way that UAF has done has only made the situation worse.

As such one is left to believe that those who created this undesirable atmosphere and violence were those who masqueraded as being 'against fascism'. But they are not truly to blame. In my opinion the blame firmly lies with both the failure of Birmingham city council to ban the protest and counter protest. As well as these individuals who I speak of who aim to manipulate and play upon the feelings of angry young Asian men.

I am myself of both a minority ethnicity and a minority religion. This it seems leaves me and many others in a gulf between both parties. As I have no allegiance with those who wish to incited hatred and prejudice or those of the EDL who truly believe that one’s ethnicity and religion define the core beliefs and opinions one is likely to hold.


(Edited for aesthetic reasons)

[edit on 10/9/09 by jensy]

posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 12:25 AM
reply to post by jensy

So the Respect Party, which is a extreme left party with strong ties to the Muslim community, was mainly responsible for the inciting of violence.

Well, that pretty much shows who the real hooligans are.

then we have the pre-conceptions fueled by the heavily biased mainstream press, which has been demonstrated on this thread.

Yeah, sounds like a conspiracy.

posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 03:10 AM
reply to post by poet1b

Dream on sunshine I am not posting hooligan worshiping crap on this site,and throwing round the word wanker like its the height of fashion.

How can you get so attached to a subject like this that deals with my countrys problems where some people feel that Muslims are taking over life here and want harsh Islamic laws for all when you are an american who hasnt even got enough pride in his country to write it as his location here!Amazing,and you call yourself a fighter.

posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 03:25 AM
reply to post by poet1b

Still missing the part where i blame all the problems in the world on the working class whites poet1b. In fact, do i mention colour at all in there? Nope, that's you assuming they're white, just cause of one photo, which they're not always. So you're the one being biased here mate. You've obviously completely missed the point, so i'll spell it out nice and slow. The EDL focuses solely on shouting in the street about Muslim extremists while completely missing the fact that there are other groups of society that cause more of an issue to our daily lives. Yet they don't 'defend' against them and don't even take any kind of direct action from what i can see (maybe Haydn_17 can actually answer my previous questions and proove me wrong there). They just like shouting in the street a lot. Believe me, i'm against Muslim extremism in any form, and other other type of crime against society comminted by any other colour, race or creed of person. But the EDL seem to just like focusing on the bad Muslims while ignoring bad non-Muslims, which is biased.

posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 04:02 AM

Originally posted by neformore
No one is "pretending there isn't a problem". There most certainly is. However the problem is with the minority not with the majority.

And the EDL agrees with you on that so I just don't understand the position you've taken against them.

Originally posted by CRB86
My team, Birmingham City FC, have a famous casual firm called the Zulu Army.

You further prove my point. 'Casuals', and therefore the EDL and Casuals Utd, are a mixed race group who even invite moderate Muslims to join them. SO WHY THE CONSTANT LIES ABOUT RACISM?

reply to post by jensy

Ya know, I was reading your post thinking "this is someone who REALLY gets it - someone who even woke up to the idiocy of the extreme left"... indeed, I was prepared to give you a dozen stars if I could, and then I got to the end:

Originally posted by jensy
In my opinion the blame firmly lies with both the failure of Birmingham city council to ban the protest and counter protest.

...and realised that you're a freedom-hating pro-totalitarian pawn of the state. How dare you or anyone suggest that protest should be banned on ideological grounds. The EDL was formed, NOT because people can't be bothered with democracy, but plainly because democracy has failed those of us concerned about militant Islam. The government are not listening, so peaceful demonstrations became the last resort. So now you're saying we shouldn't even be allowed to voice our concerns the only way that is left to us? That's a terrifying concept.

I suppose you'll say that the protest should have been banned not because of ideological differences, but because 'the EDL caused violence', yet you yourself just admitted that by your own observations it was primarily the UAF and their followers who became violent. So, are you saying that the EDL's freedom of speech should be taken away because their opponents can't accept it?

[edit on 11/9/2009 by Cythraul]

posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 04:07 AM
reply to post by Cythraul

just out of interest as you seem to be a bit of an expert here, what is the difference between a devout Muslim and a Militant Muslim, where's the line drawn by the EDL?

posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 05:02 AM

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
just out of interest as you seem to be a bit of an expert here, what is the difference between a devout Muslim and a Militant Muslim, where's the line drawn by the EDL?

I wouldn't call myself an expert. I've been frequenting the EDL forum is all. Don't take this as gospel, because I don't speak for the EDL, but I'd say their definition of a Muslim extremist is:

- Anyone who seeks to impose Sharia Law on Britain or to undermine British values
- Anyone who actively creates no-go neighbourhoods for non-Muslims
- Anyone who thinks it's ok to convert young children to Islam without the parent's consent
- Any Muslim who supports the concept of honour-killings
- Any Muslim who thinks rape is always the woman's fault
- Any Muslim who thinks women should be subserviant to men
- Anyone who facilitates or apologises for the above

A non-militant Muslim would simply be someone who is willing to compromise their homeland values where necessary to comply with British law and values, someone who does not want Britain to become an Islamic state, someone who mixes socially with non-Muslims and does not intentionally segregate themselves from the wider community. Basically, someone who is willing to leave Fundamentalist interpretations of Islam in the country they (or their parents/grandparents) came from.

posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 06:37 AM
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Originally posted by Cythraul
And the EDL agrees with you on that so I just don't understand the position you've taken against them.

My problem comes with the hooligan element, and some of the attitude.

Unlike some people who post on this thread that have no idea whatsoever about football hooliganism, I've experienced it, been in the middle of it and been on the recieving end of it. There is nothing pleasant about it. There is no logic to it, and there is certainly nothing to be gained from it. People get hurt/seriously injured and even killed. All on the basis of what team someone supports.

Mixing people of that mindset into the middle of race/religous tensions is a powder keg waiting to explode. Its not conjucive to peaceful protest. Its how riots start.

I have pointed out in my posts above that such people are not inclined to leave innocents alone. When the mob mentality kicks in, everyone becomes fair game, and thats when things get really dangerous.

Anyone who thinks Hooligans are noble warriors is a fool, and anyone who can't see why such people would associate themselves with demonstrations of this kind is an idiot. They are there for the violence should the flash point occur.

And anyone, and I do mean anyone, can take selective photos and make out they didn't start a situation, or were not responsible for it. But when those self same people will routinely go out and kick the crap out of each other just because they can do, what image does that portray?

I'll tell you. It gives the extremists an excuse to play the race card. It gives them the opportuinity to stand up and say "you are racists, you hate all muslims" even when that may not be the case. It actually provides them fodder for their extremism and hate. All they need is a picture of some moron battering a muslim to turn it round and fuel their fire, and that leans to more recruitment and more extremists. Despite what some people posting in here might think, the fact is that that these extremists can class themselves as the minority. Its easy to whip up sympathy for your cause when you are the minority that is allegedly being picked on.

Involving dyed in the wool football hooligans in these issued is the perfect recruitment tool for the extremists.

It also dilutes any positive message that might have been being put across, because the minute that a protest turns to violence is the minute the protest FAILS.

The violence will be plastered all over the news and people in the main will just think "what a bunch of idiots, they're as bad as each other" and generally pay no attention at all to either message. It doesn't highlight a culture issue. It highlights violence.

Finally - I will say this - anyone who glorifies football hooliganism in any way shape or form is an idiot. Many people have been seriously injured and killed, lives ruined and families destroyed by it. Its not some "play" thing.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 06:58 AM
I think everyone is forgetting that muslim extremists are a minority across the world ! For the real muslims who believe in islam as a religion and not a tool to cause hatred and terror , they too are sick of what extremists are doing to their religion.
They feel a great shame in how the minority have portrayed their religion to the world.
As they are an extremist minority they will want to shout and preach in the street to try and get more and more people to join them , but like the BNP they are full of # , but because the BNP have won seats in parliment we are going to give them a stage to let them say what they want , and the people of britain will realise they are full of # and promote hate. So if we let the muslim extremists promote hate and give them a platform they too will be seen for what they really are.

Its unfortunate that so many young men in england are being indoctrinated into islamist extremism , all we have to do is educate them properly in school so that they are not easily led.
Teaching religion in school is fine, however involving reiligion in politics has no place in britain, and im not against islam , but there should not be any islamic party running for government in the uk.
There is nothing wrong with muslims immigrating to the UK as long as they intigrate themselves properly into our society instead of segregating themseleves by their religious barriers.

I can understand how it is hard for them to intigrate especially when they dont consume alcohol or the muslim women dont dress the same or share the same social aspirations. However simply because we dont share the same customs doesnt mean we cant get along together.
The government should be doing more to educate everyone in cultural acceptance , entry to the country should be based on how willing the people are to intigrate themseleves and learn our customs.

creating groups such as the EDL is fair enough , because we have the right to , but when you start causing more problems than your solving then your really just part of the problem and a million miles away from the solution, most likely the EDL will realise this and disband.

What I cant understand with the world today is why are so many people filled with religious hatred and a zeal to destroy one another simply because we have different views.

It certainly doesnt help when there are people who are pro WAR , these people are the people who back the military - for you are just the same as the militant extremists , you are promoting war and death . The people of britain should realise that war is not the way forward for the human race, you want to stop preaching religious hatred , then maybe take a look at britians promoting war with foreign countries.
Stop getting behind the military , your letting your kids or your wife or husband goto another country to kill or be killed , for the benefit of your government not for you!

If you all took the time to protest against your government instead of each other then we wouldnt be in this situation in the first place!

posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 07:08 AM
reply to post by sapien82

I wonder where all the EDL members were on the G20 protest, probably sat at home cheering on the police abusing the "hippies" and leftie do gooders like me.

posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 07:27 AM

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
I wonder where all the EDL members were on the G20 protest, probably sat at home cheering on the police abusing the "hippies" and leftie do gooders like me.

And why not? Aside from the fact that the EDL have a right to not share the politics of G20 protesters, they are also all too aware of the hypocrisy of many leftie do-gooders who would ban protest by their opposition whilst demanding the right to protest their own causes. The UAF are probably the most vile protest group in this country right now, and yet in this thread we have a barrage of hate against their less violent opponents.

posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 07:40 AM

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
reply to post by Cythraul

just out of interest as you seem to be a bit of an expert here, what is the difference between a devout Muslim and a Militant Muslim, where's the line drawn by the EDL?

I'm guessing a devout muslim is someone who understands his own religion and wishes peace upon the people who surround him/her and goes about his or her own life without conflict.

A militant muslim is the type that wishes ill upon the UK due to the actions of a few in government. The types who wave banners around saying 'beahed those who insult Islam' or the ones who throw stones at dead soldiers funerals.

I thought you would understand this yourself, guess i had to spell it out eh?

posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 08:07 AM
After watching those events of last week, i have to say that it looked like the UAF who were responisble for any violence... the EDL were just protesting against extremist views when they cam up against this UAF protesting about them being there... I would have thought the UAF would have been with the EDL on this one not against them : /

posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 08:15 AM
reply to post by mr-lizard

Its always good to get the definitions clear in any debate, I was looking how someone from the EDL side would clarify the definitions as I imagine the lines could be blurred.

i'm really not sure how we deal with Militant Islam, but i am sure it is not through EDL protests .

posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 08:20 AM
reply to post by woodwardjnr

Just to clarify i'm not a member of the EDL, i'm just contributing to the discussion.

Apologies if i seemed a little sarcastic. Peace

[edit on 11-9-2009 by mr-lizard]

posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 08:21 AM
reply to post by Cythraul

I agree, that part about banning protests is way out of line. That is first amendment stuff here in the U.S..

That is the whole problem with the PC crowd, they want to choose which groups get special treatment and which groups get banned, which groups get a voice, and which groups should be silenced.

The PC crowd claims to be against discrimination, but they are the most biased people out there.

posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 08:32 AM
reply to post by Nammu

AS the saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words.

You go on and on about Neds, well here is the first link I pulled up defining this term.

Ned is a term applied to certain people in Scotland, akin to the term chav in England. The stereotypical view of a ned is a white adolescent male (although this does not exclude females), of working class background, who wears fake brand names (particularly Burberry), tacky jewellery (females often wear their name in large gold lettering), and engages in hooliganism, petty criminality, loutish behaviour, fighting, underage drinking and smoking or general anti-social behaviour[1]. They are often assumed to be unemployed.

Like is often pointed out, switch out the term ned, and put in some other racial term, and the PC crowd would be all over it.

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