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I am a member of the English Defense League

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posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by Haydn_17
 


What a load of small minded xenophobic RUBBISH.

You sir, disgust me and do not represent the values of this nation.

Your divisive and unnecessary organisation is repugnant to all right thinking people.




posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by Dark Ghost
You Brits are lucky. If we did this hear we would be labelled racist, right-wing extremist fear-mongers.

Before I get a lecture from the PC gone mad brigade, let me say that groups based on true hate speech deserve to be condemned. This however seems more like a group that wants to protect and preserve the essence of what makes their country and cultural identity different to that of a sovereign country.


What defines this country is its ability to accept others for who they are and allow them freedom and a voice. To try and stifle that is just not British.

Speaking as an outsider i can understand why it may seem like this is a fair and reasonable thing to you but the undertones, unspoken words are what matter here.

This organisation exists to goad people it is targetting into responding and then holding that up as justification for their actions.

They are an absolute disgrace and most right thinking people know this.

What you also have to recognise is that Britain was built on the blood sweat and tears of people from all around its former empire. Why shouldn't they and their descendants make their home here and continue with their cultural traditions?

There is no threat to our cultural identity as this is exactly what our identity is about.

Further, we have always had organisations like this with every "wave" of immigration. Whats different here is they are lapping up tabloid driven scaremongering to spread division.

Please, do not be misled into believing this is a good or benevolent organisation.

You should also be mindful that it is largely filled with right wing violent thugs, football hooligans and the like. You should read up on those people if you are not familiar with them as that is who this organisation are.

Generally a bunch of feckless thugs who are unable to adapt to the modern world, see others with different colour skin doing better than they are and resort to the caveman mindset instead of looking inwards and seeing what it is they need to change about themselves to be successful in the 21st century.

Remember, the UK went to war to demand freedom for oppressed people in other countries, doesn't it seem odd that we have people who wish to oppress others and claim its because they're British?

Those who died in WW2 wouldn't agree with them and nor do i.

I have been told many times by elderly ex servicemen (many who are now dead) to always think "lest we forget". We never should. These people either have or just don't get it.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 02:27 PM
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As an American, I can think of no country that reflects our basic moral and philosophical principles than England. Although I am mediteranean by heritage, I still regard the UK as family. Our founding fathers experience was influenced by the British experience more so than any other country.

That being said, it pains me to no end to hear the stories of muslims spewing hatred and vitriol towards your country and getting away with it while an American radio personality, michael savage, has been banned from your country for bringing to light the behavior of your radical muslims.

It is outrageous. Savage may be "right wing" and sensational but he does not advocate violence. If something doesn't change soon. If politicians on both sides of the atlantic do not recognize the cancer within, there will indeed be a backlash and it will necessarily be extremely violent.

I am torn between the explanations that
1. Our governments live in fear of minority riots and are afraid of cracking down or
2. They want the riots to occur as a reason to unleash drastic measures against those with the intelligence to recognize what is happening, the desire to bring about change and the tools to pull it off.

Minority riots in either country may foment the same across the pond. Citizens of the UK, you'd better do something about it before its too late!



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by phoenix103
 


Yeh freedom of speech, "death to anglicans" "muslims love hitler" "death to the murdering british" "behead those who insult allah" "dont worry Uk your 9/11 is on the way" You thinking this acceptable makes me sick, and i think it would make our forefathers sick.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by phoenix103
 


And i also think you dont understand, the edl fight EXTREMISTS! Not the whole muslim community is it. Hence the slogan "black and white unite" Oh and why cant we english express freedom of speech without being called facist and rightwing?



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 03:57 PM
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Well that's a lot of reading.
1. What exactly is the point of your thread Haydn?
- a recruiting tool for the EDL or
- a call to action against extremism or
- religious intolerance (not racism)
As many here don't seem to be able to tell the difference -
Racism is discriminating against someone because of their race/colour/country of origin.
Religious intolerance is purely discriminating against someone due to their belief in one or more gods rather than another one/set.

2. Yes neds/chavs are a problem but that is not what this thread is about, so why not start a different thread if you wish to discuss that.

3. Yes the PTB/MSM are the real criminals and I believe there are quite a few other threads already discussing this and individual cases of such.

4. This thread is about the EDL and having looked at their site i do not find it to be promoting racism in any way. Everything I saw was aimed at peaceful protest against Muslim extremism and from what I can tell they were thwarted through violence by extremists! Note I do not say Muslim extremists just extremists as there is some ambiguity as to who was stirring this up.
- It may be they are proven to be racists and run by racists but as of now they are only standing against Muslim extremism and I do not see how anybody can be against people standing against the injustices perpretrated but Muslim extremism.

5. Yes as always this is a small minority of people but the world is run by such small groups and all they are ever really interested in is seizing power and influence to better their position, it just depends which part of the world you are born in as to which group of extremists you can join really.
The majority are easily manipulated by any leaders or authority figures. Look at all the experiments done proving this and all of recorded history to see what appalling atrocities can be committed by so called normal people.

6. As a Scot living in England I encounter racism on a daily basis but 99.99% is made in good humour and I give as good as I get. BUT then so do the Polish lads, Brasilians,Portugeuse and even a Nepalese bloke. We all take it and give it back.
I am not condoning TRUE racism of a physical nature or even psychological but there is a difference between having a laugh and a joke and harmful behaviour - something the PC brigade seem to ignore. I wear glasses too and am bald so three easy ways to make a joke and that's exactly what it is a joke by someone whose mind is so weak they can only comment on a physical feature yes I am speccy and bald - tell me something I don't see in the mirror every day!!! Oh and I'm a 'whatever' Scottish 'whatever' really it's good of you to remind me as I'd forgotten where I was born!!!
Now if I am abroad in a different country and someone 'accuses' me of being English then I obviously advise them they are wrong and explain I am Scottish


7. Intolerance of anothers views is not by defintion wrong, otherwise there would be no laws and we could do whatever we wanted to, too whomever we wanted to, whenever we wanted to - ie true anarchy.

8. I have discussed this with people from many cultures, backgrounds and religions and most of the problems are, as always, caused by the minority which causes the PTB to make the majority suffer instead of them- presumably to further their own diabolical strategems.

9. Having recently been to Israel and Jerusalem in particular, where I visited the Dome of the Rock and spoke with many people from the three main religions Judaism/Christianity/Islam in an effort to further understand I was educated in many ways. There are more ways to look at the world than we in the Christian West do and to discuss human rights with a follower of Islam is a waste of time as we as humans have no 'human rights' our reason for existence is to follow Allah and all his teachings so to the Muslim the concept of 'human rights' made no sense - at least this was what was patiently explained to me by various different muslims in one of their most holy places. I can only speak from my experiences and the literature given to me. Yes I have read large parts of the Qur'an and most of the Bible but not the Torah yet but I would imagine it can just as easily be quoted out of context. Religions seem to be mainly a tool for controlling the majority once again by a minority of power seeking individuals- However it also does a lot of good at a grass roots level which they are raely given credit for. Much evil as well again by the minority.
WHEN WE WILL LEARN NOT TO JUDGE OTHER GROUPS BY THE VOCAL MINORITY? ie the bullies!!

10. What was my purpose in numbering?

So in summation I see nothing wrong with the stated aims of the EDL in its current form - yes there are many other groupd working silently behind the scenes BUT that's just it they are silent!!!! and the minority just goes on growing unchecked and grows braver by the day.



The first chapter in the Qur'an is as follows:

Surat 1. Al-Fatihah (The Opening) I
1. In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.
2. All the praises and thanks are to Allah, the Lord of the Alamin (all that exists)
3. The Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

Merciful ? doesn't sound like inciting hatred does it?

There was much more I wanted to say but for now I will shut up
and I am not going to defend any one religion over another.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by Haydn_17
reply to post by phoenix103
 


And i also think you dont understand, the edl fight EXTREMISTS! Not the whole muslim community is it. Hence the slogan "black and white unite" Oh and why cant we english express freedom of speech without being called facist and rightwing?


Because, by definition the EDL is an extremist organisation seeking to divide people where that division largely simply does not exist. Sure, there are Islamic extremists in this country but their numbers are tiny and statistically insignificant. Groups such as the EDL will simply alienate moderate muslims and create the division it claims to wish to eradicate.

I hear things from people of all backgrounds i do not agree with every day. Where i'm minded to, i challenge as i am doing what this thread, that is fine, that is what freedom of speech allows.

It IS fascist to seek to silence those you disagree with. Your goal would be better served by engaging with and getting to know the people you are against. Eliminate their feeling of isolation and victimisation and their beliefs will be changed.

Don't pretend that these things are impossible, they are not. 20 years ago we'd have said the same with Irish dissidents but now, that battle is all but over. The minority of troublemakers who continue to perpetuate the "struggle" are shunned and isolated by the vast majority on both sides.

I'm not particularly left or right wing, i'm not incapable of criticising those on any "side" but i know my country, its history and people. I find this organisation repugnant on the basis it is alien to our way of life yet claims to be there to defend it.

Clearly you sincerely believe what you do and far be it from me to personally attack you for it but i would ask that you simply reflect on what i'm saying. Even if you respond negatively i hope you can understand what i'm saying directly to you.

Anger, resentment and conflict serve nobody. If division is one of the objectives of the terrorists who attacked on 9/11 and 7/7, don't you realise that your organisation is giving them what they want - as is government spin, legislation and tabloid sensationalism.

You know us Brits are welcoming and accepting. So welcome and accept. If we all treat each other with respect it will breed it where it doesn't already exist and we'll live in a far happier and better country.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by phoenix103
 


Phoenix we cant be more inviting, we allow mosques, good jobs, some sharia law. And a small group throw it all back into your face, it enrages me. You live in our country at least respect our law and culture. Dispatches revealed how some mosques taught people not to intergrate, that we are the enemy of Islam. We want them out, our govt is weak, too afraid to offend.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by Haydn_17
reply to post by phoenix103
 


Phoenix we cant be more inviting, we allow mosques, good jobs, some sharia law. And a small group throw it all back into your face, it enrages me. You live in our country at least respect our law and culture. Dispatches revealed how some mosques taught people not to intergrate, that we are the enemy of Islam. We want them out, our govt is weak, too afraid to offend.


Don't you think that organisations like EDL prove that point? That these views exist and were expressed before EDL was founded so there is actually some basis in truth of what they've been told?

I'd think the best way to deal with it is to prove these tiny minority of extremists wrong. Nobody can argue with truth and we all consider truth to be what we see day to day.

I realise i was somewhat curt with you in my initial reply in this thread, for that, i apologise but i just think we have to be the bigger man in this and it will pay dividends for us all.

Underneath it all, i don't think we're all that different, we're just told we are.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by phoenix103
Underneath it all, i don't think we're all that different, we're just told we are.


I agree with you completely.

Not that that helps matters any.

To paraphrase a line from the Life of Brian, 'why can't we all just be individuals?'

The problem with immigration is not the immigrants themselves, it is not even the government really, it is the permanent civil service, specifically the immigration service, the IRS and HMCE, who decide immigration policy that is beneficial to the economic stability of the country or unit, as a whole, but has a negative impact on the existing population.






[edit on 9-9-2009 by shamhat]



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by shamhat
 


"Im not"

What have they ever done for us??? Dont say the Aquaduct!! but what have they put into this country?? OR the states for that matter! Why are we so hell bent on appeasing them?

Why do the selfrighteous lefties feel this enanain right to call foul or racism everytime one voices an opinion on this? I am a free man! I will say whatever i feel ! if you dont like it then thats your perogative as is their right to say what they like, BUT dont You dare tell me im evil or wrong for voicing my thoughts , They voice theirs! SO they can damn well let me voice mine! I will listen to you .. if im wrong then i will say so and hold up my hands . . .

Least im man enough to know if i am wrong and not blinkered by Religion.

Regards

Git



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by completenuttergit
 


Sorry?

There's no need to get your knickers in a twist about it is all I am saying. Not you specifically, generally.

Attacking immigrants, in any shape or form, does not address the problem of immigration. The immigrants are as much a victim of this whole situation as we are, though it may not seem that way yet, for proof look at the socio-economic fortunes of the majority of the immigrant populations that have graced these shores. It's like one potato, two potato. We all take our turn at the bottom sooner or later. Well, some of us do.

If you want to stop immigration you need to attack the permanent civil service who direct immigration policy. Racism, yours, mine or anyone else's, has nothing to do with the matter.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 06:49 PM
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reply to post by shamhat
 


You were paraphrasing "life of Brian" As in "were all individuals" and the one says "Im not" usually gets a laugh !

My knickers are not in a twist , Just , its seems harder and harder these days to voice ones feelings without someone making you out to be a bad person.

I just replied to your post with the "Brian" connection wasnt popping at you

regards

Git



posted on Sep, 10 2009 @ 02:30 AM
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Originally posted by Haydn_17
reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


I can't get to london that day, as i work a night shift at royal mail and will be too tired.

We are supporting March for England on this Demonstration.

Hezbollah, yes the Muslim Terrorist organisation, and its supporters are due to be staging a March through Central London this coming Sunday 13th Sept.


right, I've been looking for this March by Hezbollah on the 13th of September. I cant find any evidence of this at all. I believe there may be a demonstration for the support of Palestinians in Gaza, but dont confuse supporters Palestine with a Hezbollah march. Many in this country support the Palestinians and their plight.

Are you sure you want to be protesting against the Palestinian people. I think you need to find out more about what your protesting about before blindly following the EDL.



posted on Sep, 10 2009 @ 02:52 AM
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Originally posted by phoenix103

What defines this country is its ability to accept others for who they are and allow them freedom and a voice. To try and stifle that is just not British.



Note too sure about that seeing as we have colonised, raped and then dumped other nations. Did we care about them?



posted on Sep, 10 2009 @ 03:03 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


There is a march listed here

 


The rally itself is described as



Annual March and Rally in support of the Palestinians and all oppressed peoples of the World.


And I'm wondering why the EDL feels a need to protest such a thing?

The Times article from August here is an interesting read



Despite the failure of the first large event, the League insists it will continue to hold demonstrations. Comments on the group’s website, and the affiliated football hooliganism site Casuals United said that the next one would be bigger.

One message on the Casuals United site read: “We will arrange it via the Inner Circles secret forums, so we will arrive unnanounced and neither the police or the scum will know any details.”


Doesn't all look as innocent as first described now, does it?



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Sep, 10 2009 @ 03:21 AM
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reply to post by neformore
 


cheers for that. Clears things up a bit. Let's hope the EDL and Casuals United respect this protest and stay away.



posted on Sep, 10 2009 @ 03:42 AM
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Originally posted by phoenix103
You sir, disgust me and do not represent the values of this nation.

Your divisive and unnecessary organisation is repugnant to all right thinking people.

No. YOU don't represent this nation. You wouldn't know what Britishness was if it bit you on the backside. And your fascist policy of deeming all people who hold a different view from you to be not 'right thinking' is sickening and, might I say, contradictory to your self-proclaimed 'liberal' open-mindedness. You've not even read the whole thread and taken in other people's viewpoints, as I'll point out further down.


Originally posted by phoenix103
What defines this country is its ability to accept others for who they are and allow them freedom and a voice. To try and stifle that is just not British.

Oh THAT defines Britain does it? Not the ancient culture, not the Bill of Rights & Magna Carta, not the fairness and rights afforded to both humans and animals, not the shared ancestry and great people that many of us are bonded by blood to, not the ability to defend against invading forces... You constantly, constantly hijack the definition of Britishness and attempt to mould it to your post-traditional, marxist worldview.


Originally posted by phoenix103
There is no threat to our cultural identity as this is exactly what our identity is about.

So Britain has no cultural identity other than a mish-mash of foreign ones? Britain has no indigenous people and is ancestral homeland to no-one right? I do hope that no-one reading your drivel actually buys into any of it.


Originally posted by phoenix103
Whats different here is they are lapping up tabloid driven scaremongering to spread division.

You didn't read my lengthy post on page 11 where I pointed out that the EDL are NOT acting on tabloid hearsay did you.


Originally posted by phoenix103
Generally a bunch of feckless thugs who are unable to adapt to the modern world, see others with different colour skin doing better than they are and resort to the caveman mindset instead of looking inwards and seeing what it is they need to change about themselves to be successful in the 21st century.

Unable to adapt to the modern world? You mean, when a totalitarian ideology like multiculturalism is hoisted upon this nation, without the consent of the people, we are 'unable to adapt'? Try 'angry that we weren't given a say on the future of our nation'. And you mention 'race' again - more proof that you haven't read mine and dozens of other posts where it is clarified quite clearly that race is NOT an issue.


Originally posted by phoenix103
Those who died in WW2 wouldn't agree with them and nor do i.

Wrong again! Those who died died to preserve British values - they would be disgusted to see the state of our country today - governed by foreigners and with the native people on the backfoot. But above all, they'd be disgusted by the level of fascism which you and the wider establishment employ against anyone who opposes their socialist agenda. Remember - the EDL are not campaigning to take the Muslim community's voice away, but just to stop the ACTIONS of extreme Muslims (or perhaps you support extreme Islam).




Originally posted by Haydn_17
why cant we english express freedom of speech without being called facist and rightwing?

Don't worry Haydn. Phoenix103 has proven time and time again that he will unconditionally attack anyone who doesn't adhere to his globalist, multicultural, marxist iedology. In this day and age 'anti-fascism' is a term interchangeable with 'fascism' and that perfectly sums phoenix103 and others like him/her up.



posted on Sep, 10 2009 @ 03:44 AM
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Originally posted by neformore
And I'm wondering why the EDL feels a need to protest such a thing?

Interesting, because I've been wondering why ordinary moderate Muslims feel the need to counter-protest a protest which is aimed squarely at Islamic Extremism only.



posted on Sep, 10 2009 @ 03:58 AM
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Originally posted by Cythraul

Originally posted by neformore
And I'm wondering why the EDL feels a need to protest such a thing?

Interesting, because I've been wondering why ordinary moderate Muslims feel the need to counter-protest a protest which is aimed squarely at Islamic Extremism only.


Probably because the EDL chooses to hold their protests and demonstrate in areas with a large muslim population, like Birmingham. choosing to stoke up a racial divide in those communities and in a sense tarring the whole community with one brush.



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