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I am a member of the English Defense League

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posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 07:41 AM
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reply to post by george_gaz
 





Sending them home will only allow them to mingle with more extremists in their own country and plan further attacks but from within the safety of their own laws.


That's where depleted uranium comes in I think?




posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 07:47 AM
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You Brits are lucky. If we did this hear we would be labelled racist, right-wing extremist fear-mongers.

Before I get a lecture from the PC gone mad brigade, let me say that groups based on true hate speech deserve to be condemned. This however seems more like a group that wants to protect and preserve the essence of what makes their country and cultural identity different to that of a sovereign country.

Of course there will inevitably be all kinds of people in these types of groups - including hate-filled bigots. However, this should not be used to demonise the whole coalition of citizens.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 07:56 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


This was an interesting piece of article, could the answer lay here ?



For Islamists, the primary threat of the West is cultural rather than political or economic. Cultural dependency robs one of faith and identity and thus destroys Islam and the Islamic community (ummah) far more effectively than political rule.[35]


Is this what the military are up to in Afghanistan ?



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by Dark Ghost
You Brits are lucky. If we did this hear we would be labelled racist, right-wing extremist fear-mongers.


They will be labelled racist, right-wing extremist fear-mongers.

Just wait.

Whether they are or are not, it is bound to attract such negativity.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by moocowman
 



Possibly.

But because Muslims feel 'culturally threatned' we should allow them to retain their cultural identity etc even though it is diametrically opposed to our cultural identity.
If so then confrontation is inevitable.

As for Afghanistan?
The vast majority of Afghans support our role there, they have suffered Taliban rule once before and don't want it again.

Both at home and abroard it seems the problem lies with the extremist interpretations of Islam.
Unfortunately it is this brand of Islam that is spreading and the moderate Muslims themselves do either nothing or very, very little to prevent it from doing so thus further alienating themselves.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 08:47 AM
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Originally posted by Cythraul
What does this have to do with the discussion anyway neformore?


Maybe you should read the thread Cythraul?

My point is that there are people in the thread generalising and saying "send them home", which to me is the height of ignorance.

What if they were born, and live here?

And I also note that the tendency is creeping in - again - as it does buy those with their own particular agenda's to move from muslim extremists - which the original post - and the EDL - was set up to refer to, to all muslims and the broad based tarring of all islamic people with the same brush.

Only its not all Islamic people that are the problem. There are a few few nutjobs - who are exactly the same as the nutjob in the article I linked.

The majority of people in the UK from all races, creeds and religions just want to get on with their lives, raise their families and live peacefully.

Its the extremists - from all sides - who don't. They just get off on violence, for the sake of it.


[edit on 9/9/09 by neformore]



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by neformore
My point is that there are people in the thread generalising and saying "send them home", which to me is the height of ignorance.

What if they were born, and live here?

I don't see it as the height of ignorance. It's a little misled, but their logic probably goes something like this: The UK is not an Islamic country, therefore anyone who wants to make it an Islamic state likely identifies more so with their Islamic ancestral homeland than with the country they're born in. Being born in a country does not make you of that ethnicity, nor does it make that country your ancestral homeland. Those people who distinguish between 'home' and 'homeland' may feel that anybody who demonstrates more of an affinity with their homeland than with their home should go and live in the country of their ancestors. Equally, an immigrant who adopts British values and demonstrates a loyalty to Britain and no will whatsoever to destroy its traditions, therefore abandoning all links with their ancestral homeland, should not be told to 'go home'.

I know from past debates involving you nefermore that you definitely don't agree with this concept, but I think it's important that you know that many people do and that they're not ignorant for doing so. It is a belief born of a certain (non hateful) mindset, not a lack of education or insight.


Originally posted by neformore
And I also note that the tendency is creeping in - again - as it does buy those with their own particular agenda's to move from muslim extremists - which the original post - and the EDL - was set up to refer to, to all muslims and the broad based tarring of all islamic people with the same brush.

In my years of observation, I still fail to see a clear dividing line between extremists and moderates. As Freeborn often points out so well, the level of condemnation from the 'moderate' camp with regards to the extreme acts committed here is so low that it's almost inaudible. Moderates and extremists both seem to read from the same scriptures. And when Geert Wilders made a film criticising Islam, even moderate Muslims supported his banning from this country. I consider that whole episode to be in support of extremism. Any religious person that subverts democracy and free speech to prevent criticism of their faith is extreme. Similarly, Sharia Courts are extreme - yet how many moderate Muslims participate in them? Sharia Courts are a clear statement that British law is not good enough and that a second, alien legal system is necessary. Halal slaughter methods require an exception to common British laws on animal welfare - to me, that's an example of extremism.

Basically, nefermore, you and I would define 'extremism' differently. I define it as a clear unwillingness to respect and adapt to the laws and values of your host country.

Any Muslim who comes here and abandons all religious rules that contradict British law, and actively make friends of their non-Muslim neighbours is a moderate Muslim and welcome in my eyes.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by Nammu
 


I certainly understand the threat you feel from Neds / Chavs and not from Muslims however, that maybe due to the relatively low number of Muslim immigrants in Glasgow when compared to the Midlands and North West England.
In these places there are no go areas where non-Muslims are assaulted if they enter.
'Our' Police force allow this to happen for fear of upsetting the local Muslims who would riot and thus spoil the image our nice, peaceful, multi-cultural society.
Imagine the outcry if no go areas for Muslims were tolerated by The Police?

This is a reality.
Not scaremongering but fact.

That we have a problem with feral youngsters is undisputable.
Is it just another case of TPTB feeding people's fears through MSM?
I don't know, it probably requires a thread in itself.


Hi there, I remember seeing this programme a couple of years ago about certain areas up North that were totally taken over by Pakistanis... I remember they were Pakistanis because they were driving around in their cars with their green national flag... i also remember in the interviews a couple of guys saying 'this is our own Pakistan in Britain' 'You don't wanna come around here if you aren't from Pakistan' I remember it well and i was like 'WHAT???' 'What the hell is this?' 'This is supposed to be England' bloody el!

Going by your post it looks like these have been allowed to stay here and create their own 'little pakistan' here in England.... I really don't know what the current Government or the one before that have done.... but i can see some big problems on the Horizon and i'm thinking that the Government have wanted this to happen for quite some time



[edit on 9-9-2009 by TruthxIsxInxThexMist]



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:38 AM
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reply to post by Cythraul
 



Not racist my vegan friend,Just felt that chap wouldnt look out of place in your little gang.A friendly little dig in your direction and I can only go on visual looks alone as thats all I can see in the videos shown here

I'm English with relatives who fought in both world wars.The only fighting after that was with my father and oliver reed in a wimbledon pub in the 60's,but when the country called my blood line did there part.Nothing special in that at all,every british person on this site could say the same thing(apart from oliver reed,on second thought many could say that too!)

Our grand parents and great grand parents were all heros,a generation far stronger than the pampered softies we have all become.

I cant be anglo saxon,never went that far back on the family tree to see where my bloodlines came from but I come from Irish and English Kin and I expect many so called anglo saxons have mixed blood lines

Of course the EDL are full of anglo saxons!Strong bloodlines they have,no Celts in there!

I dont agree with you,but I would defend any of you peacefully demonstrating who are attacked by muslims-like I would defend any muslims demonstrating peacfully and are attacked in the same way.

I just think you might flare up more problems,you might not want this yourself but I have a sneaky feeling that those higher up would actualy relish this.

I know racists support the EDL,there are some here who despise the religion of muslims but dont hate them!yeahhh right,There fooling no one with strong language like that

The best solution would be for all the muslim haters to join the army,and all the fanatical muslims to join the talliban.Then they can meet on the battle fields in Afganistan and leave our streets free of their kind.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


Glasgow is roughly 5% Muslim, so definitely not as high as Birmingham's 14%, but there should not be zones anywhere that are 'no go' for any colour of person. So why isn't the EDL tackling this problem?

Groups like the EDL need to stop having general protests and start some direct action. Shouting in the streets of Birmingham is just going to start trouble, make them enemies and give the wrong impression. Why aren't they contacting the police to hound them about these 'no go zones' and working with the local community to stop this? If they want to take action to stop things like this, then i'm all up for it. But i wouldn't be supporting them while they just stand in the street shouting. That's just stoking the fire, creating tension and making things worse.

See my previous post to the OP with a load of my questions (which haven't been answered yet by the way Haydn_17
) about what direct action they plan to take against the things that outraged him so much. I agree they need actions, but why just shout in the street about it without actually doing anything.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 11:02 AM
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Hi All...

So. Let me try to understand something here! We are supposed to keep quiet when all around us the muslim community are allowed to spout off their religious beliefs and shower us with tyrades of their hatred for us? Is this ok ??

Also i read back a few pages someone saying "What about the ones born here" Well , The three found guilty of the airline bomb plot , Were they not born in the UK ???

Also the Rantings of Abdulla Ahmed Ali,( One of the guilty ) on his So called suicide video called for all troops to leave "HIS" homeland !! errr isnt his homeland England???.. Was HE not born here in good ol blighty??

Im finding it increasingly hard to stay grounded when all i see and hear on the news is hatered towards Britain and America from the muslim communities that were so bad and evil, WHY am I evil ???? WHAT have I done to the muslims?? Why when i follow NO religion ,be subjected to this?

If the west is SO bad stop freeloading,Sponging or whatever you want to call it, GO and live in the dry and dusty deserts or sweltering smog ridden stinking cities ,go live in your shangrilaa of religious opression but please, Stop inflicting your religious driven violence on me and my kind.. Then maybe things might start getting better, lol , i said maybe!!

I would like to think myself a normal bloke , not racist but with this being shoved in my face, well , im finding it increasingly hard NOT to be!!

Regards

GIT






[edit on 9-9-2009 by completenuttergit]



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 12:02 PM
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This thread is a pile of crap.

Both the UK and the US have occupied the middle-east with our militaries, we have killed in the MILLIONS of people, and you all have the nerve to turn your noses up at people from the middle-east who are your own CITIZENS when they express their dissatisfaction with what we've done?

Get your heads out of your asses, treat people with respect, and realize that freedom of speech and expression is something that doesnt necessarily have to appeal to you, just like the crap you're all spewing forth doesnt appeal to me, and probably a large percentage of others here.

And no I am not arabic, I am American.

If you dont like the state of things, then turn around to the real terrorists being your government, and express your dissatisfaction to them instead of acting like a bunch of fearful whining ninnies.

Why dont you go to these people that look at you strange and ask them politely what their problem is? Why dont you listen to what they have to say? You might find your entire ridiculous perceptions are wrong. In fact I guarantee it.

If Saddam hussein Occupied the UK and killed millions in the UK and the only safe place to be for British was in Iraq, How would you view the people who destroyed your home country????

Grow up and quit the fear and hatred. I cant believe what we call "men" nowadays...a bunch of whining sissies in cardigans.

I live near the muslim capitol of the US in Dearborn, Michigan. but instead of hating Arabs, I talk to them. I listen to what they have to say.
I hear their sides of the story, and my gestures are rewarded with a mutual respect and understanding. Grow the hell up!!!!

The REAL terrorists are our own damned governments trying to divide and conquer us, but looting us, spreading hatred and fear, and pitting us against one-another.

Are you going to let them win????



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by Bravo111
 


Ah, and so it always goes, I reply with the facts or the matter, and you reply back calling me ignorant without without any counter whatsoever to the facts I presented.

My view of the situation is very representative.

Everywhere Islam goes it creates strife, and conflict. Islam is at war everywhere it has the opportunity to create war, and has always been.

It is Islam creating the current conflicts in Europe, And India, And Africa, And Asia, and the Middle East has been a war zone since the creation of Islam.

Read some history, this is well recorded.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by Critical_Mass
This thread is a pile of crap.

Both the UK and the US have occupied the middle-east with our militaries, we have killed in the MILLIONS of people, and you all have the nerve to turn your noses up at people from the middle-east who are your own CITIZENS when they express their dissatisfaction with what we've done?




Yes they are Citizens! Well, supposed to be! Im sorry that you are offended by this thread there is always the option not to read it.

These so called citizens have probably been educated, treated and supported by the state. Yet they turn and bite the hand that feeds them! That seems ok to you then ?

The point i would like to make is that we are not allowed to make any words of dissatisfaction without the lefties or NIMBY's (Not In My Back Yard) yelling racism or were just whining!! And they can carry on spouting their tripe about how bad we are !

regards

Git



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by Bravo111
 


Answers

1. Because that is the goal of the neocon think tank, however it was mainly aimed at Iraq and Iran, Saudi Arabia is well in their pockets.

BUT they do not represent all of the western world, or even the U.S. anymore. Once people figured them out, they turned against them, thus GW's poll numbers and the election of Obama.

2. The reasons we are in Afghanistan and Iraq are many, and they are justified.

We invaded Afghanistan because of 9-11. It should be recognized that the Neocons may very well have aided in this attack, but never the less, it put the people behind the neocons in support of these invasions.

What ever the reasons for the neocons supporting this war, their were many justifiable reasons for this military action.

The Taliban were indeed promoting and spreading world wide terrorism, and needed to be stopped. They clearly desire Islam to take over the world.

The non-muslim world has the right to defend itself against aggressive Muslim tactics aimed at creating murder and mayhem around the globe.

The invasion of Iraq was not so justified, and personally, I opposed it.

BUT Hussein was an evil bugger, and the world, and IRAQ, is better off without him. When one reads about the horrible atrocities committed by his sons, the intentions of the neocons become meaningless, and I have to say, Thank God those evil monsters were removed from the face of the Earth.

www.time.com...

The point that so many want to ignore, is that the people in Afghanistan and Iraq want the U.S. and NATO troops to remain. It is the terrorists, the oppressors who want western troops to leave, so they can resume their tyrannical control over the people.

answers.yahoo.com...

I would like to add, that the job that Western soldiers have done in Afghanistan and Iraq is a tremendous accomplishment. They deserve nothing but respect.

My questions

1. Do you support the Taliban who think god wants them to murder school aged girls for daring to go to school?

2. Do you really think the people are Iraq are not happy that Hussein is gone, especially now that his evil son Uday is not preying upon them.

3. Who do you support? The terrorist or the people?



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by Critical_Mass
 


If you have a problem with One man then attack that man.... just because we reside in our home country of England does not mean that you should attack me too... i am very fed up with the current situation and with people who shout their mouths saying kill all english or whatever it is... why should i and many others have to put up with this? We have not and did not attack anyone personally but you are attacking all of us because of the deeds of one or two men.... i'm ready to fight if it comes to that.... i will protect my back yard at whatever costs.... i'm not going to sit here if some fanatics are charging down my street shouting 'kill the english'



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by Critical_Mass
Both the UK and the US have occupied the middle-east with our militaries, we have killed in the MILLIONS of people

Not in my name we haven't.


Originally posted by Critical_Mass
realize that freedom of speech and expression is something that doesnt necessarily have to appeal to you

Yes, but freedom of speech and freedom of action are different things. If extremist Muslims were merely saying they want Sharia Courts, or saying they want to convert the British or saying they'll use halal slaughter methods or saying... you get the point. If they were merely saying these things there'd be no problem. Fact is they're doing them against the wishes of their host.


Originally posted by Critical_Mass
instead of acting like a bunch of fearful whining ninnies.

What do you think street protests are then? The recent one in Birmingham, the EDL planned, stated it would be non-violent, then found out that an army of Muslim youth were coming to physically confront them despite having organised nothing with the police. Yet the EDL turned up anyway and attempted to remain peaceful. Is that being fearful? Are street demonstrations what you call 'whining'?


Originally posted by Critical_Mass
Why dont you go to these people that look at you strange and ask them politely what their problem is?

Because they - the youth at least - have demonstrated clearly that they'd beat the crap out of me should I ever think of confronting them. Now one on one I could handle, but in my experience Asians do everything in packs.


Originally posted by Critical_Mass
The REAL terrorists are our own damned governments trying to divide and conquer us, but looting us, spreading hatred and fear, and pitting us against one-another.

I agree and as far as I'm concerned what the EDL are doing is as much protesting against government decisions as extreme Muslims themselves. They might not be explicitly aware of it, but that's what the result is. That's why they make sure the media are present at every demonstration and why there's no intended direct confrontations with Muslims (any confrontations occur because Muslims inevitably turn up in anger - if they were opposed to extremist Islam as well, surely they'd let the EDL get on with it... hmmm).



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by Nammu
 


Hmm, so in your opinion all the problems of the world are created by working class whites who like to go out and have a good time now and then?

And yet you don't consider yourself to be a racist or a classist?

Some people get along fine where ever they go. Personally, I have found that to be the case for me, I get along fine in any neighborhood, among any color of people. Some people however, seem to bring out the worst in others where ever they go.

You might want to consider it's you, not them, that is the problem.

When I was a young man I used to like to go out and have a good time with my friends. We would get rowdy, but we didn't hurt anybody. Personally, I think the youth of today deserve the right to go out and have a good time, as long as they aren't hurting anybody.

HOWEVER, there would be times when we were out having a good time, and we would run into some snob with their nose in the air looking down on us with contempt, and it would piss us off, and bring out the worse in us.

When anyone goes looking down their nose at people, that is what they tend to get.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 01:29 PM
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To be or not to be.... that is the question...

Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune

or

To take up arms against a sea of troubles and by opposing end them....



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by Nammu
reply to post by Haydn_17
 


That's true. But my life and the life of those around me has been affected greatly by neds and continues to be affected on a daily basis. I don't know anyone as of yet, thankfully, that's been hurt, scarred or killed by Muslim extremists. I do know people that have been hurt, scarred or killed by neds. I read my local paper and it's another stabbing, another robbing, another innocent man getting his head stamped on, a girl getting slashed by a man for no reason. The problem is we are spending more time fearing what one group of society might do, and completely missing what another part is doing.



So can you clarify for me. When you make reference to "Glaswegian neds" you are refering to white teenagers? (going by the image you posted, and remarks you have made).

There was a fairly recent serious stabbing incident in the West End where a 14 year old hindu boy was assaulted by a group of muslim pakistani boys.

As far as I am aware, the victim has an equal and healthy balance of friends from many different backgrounds, religions and colour, unlike his attackers who are also far older than him. I would suggest that this attack, although the outcome was fortunately less serious than the Kris case, in as much as the victim was not abducted, tortured and killed, still highlights a hatred that takes violence and hatred to a higher level than your average Glasgow scheme dweller, (as you would label them "NED") ever exhibit.

This thread isn't about general racist attitudes, it is about a fundamentalist culture that has arrived in Britain, with a culture of seperatism and religious hatred and intolerance. My more integrated asian muslim friends find it just as disturbing and unacceptable as the rest of us white, brits do.

I would like to point out that I do not label anyone as a ned. Most of the violence and frustration I have observed comes from a culture of poverty and poor living conditions, which usually result in alcohol & drug use/addiction and ultimately anger & violence. These groups have already been marginalised and stereotyped by the government, who do nothing but "proccess" them, as does society label them in general.

Maybe if our government had ever made available money and community buildings, along with decent housing years ago, we might not have such acute problems with ned culture. There seems to be plenty of funding, resources and community buildings available now, unfortunately it is for the asian community & ethnic groups. Could that be part of the cause of further seperatist ideology on the part of extremist islamists?
It certainly is not furthering the cause for integration. Why aren't the government providing community based projects which are aimed at teenagers from all cultural and religious backgrounds?



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