My Friend Needs HealthCare.

reply to post by mental modulator

Well I would argue the system is a bit more than out of whack. We are trying to keep our foothold on a dominant economic position in the world and we cannot figure out a basic part of societal infrastructure. We are the last developed nation that still has this problem and I would argue that 47,000,000 people SOL is a sizable problem. The economy and the sector are strained with the costs associated with treating these people and their diminished capacity at times.

How much it is 'out of whack' is a valid question. But we do both agree that there are problems.

As to 47,000,000 people being SOL, well, you're debating with one of those people. I have absolutely no insurance. It is offered by my employer, but seeing as this is only a part-time job, and a low wage one at that, I have chosen not to take it. The reason? First I can't really afford it, and secondly, I have already paid tens of thousands of dollars into the insurance companies over my lifetime and have yet to see any return on that investment.

Oh, government has helped me out, of course. Remember when they passed the COBRA bill? That was supposed to fix everything. You had the right to keep your present insurance if you lost your job. What they didn't tell us back then was that COBRA would cost anywhere from $500 to $1000 per month while we were unemployed.

So instead of relying on insurance, which ceases as soon as you change jobs, and instead of relying on the government, which is even more capricious, I rely on me. I pay my medical bills, and strive to use the medical industry as little as possible. So far, I am way ahead of where I would have been had I had insurance.

As to the economy being strained, it is not the GDP that has the problem; it is individuals. The present bill would cost those people more because every one who does not have insurance, even if they have decided they simply can't afford it, will be forced by law to purchase it anyway. Now exactly how will that help the economy?

This plan is also expected to cost trillions more to cover the poor. Now where do you think this money will come from? Some of it will be in the form of taxes, and some of it will be in the form of more fiat money. Taxes will further decrease the discretionary income a person has, and fiat money will simply cause more inflation to decrease what that pittance people have left over is worth.

Face it: the economy is toast anyway. Worrying about the economy crumbling is about as fruitful as worrying that George Washington might die.

It is not this way with the AIRLINE industry people, HEAVILY REGULATED, very stringent consumer protection, yet somehow I can fly from LA to NOLA for $99.00.

That could have something to do with the fact that the airline industry sells a service which is not a necessity. Health care can be a necessity. If one chooses to drive to one's destination, or ride a bus, or train, or walk along the road with a thumb out, one will still arrive at one's destination. If one has a life-threatening illness, there's not a lot of choice: go to the doctor, or die.

(Actually, that would be a tough decision for me, but then again, I never claimed I wasn't sort of... eccentric? )

Since we are making comparisons to the airlines, I also would like to point out long waits, delayed schedules, benefits (air miles?) which are not accepted for many destinations or on certain dates, date-specific pricing (try planning a vacation that way... sheesh!), reports of inadequate maintenance, heinous security checkpoints, concerns about pilot qualifications, and quite a few airlines going completely under. I really would rather not have a health care system modeled after United Airlines.

It is not broken for me either, however I have seen it wipe people clean

It is broken for me. Why would I want to break it worse for more people?

TheRedneck

Hi Jam!
Sorry to be the one to break the bad news to your friends but,
this is the land of the greed, home of the 'fraid,
and we're damn proud of it!
We are selfish beyond description and will start praying for obamas
death right now like we are instructed to do by the "smarter" higher ups.
Do like we do when friends needs help;
We set up change jars in stores and host benefits for them.
It's not much but its about all we have left. Some change.
Plus, it's better than throwing a fit cuz we're just scared.
Only when it affects me personally will I ever care anyway.
Thats how deep our compassion for others runs.
This system of greed will never change. Ever.
For this is america and thats the way we roll here.
Screw other countries, they are losers and we will just bomb them if
they dont agree and then we will blame it on somebody else and bomb
them too.
We voted for change apparently, but come hell or high water
we will fight it tooth and nail and even call each other names
to enable the status quo to continue!
We will continue to enable the crooks to keep ripping us off while
nothing continues to get done always and forever.
Even though we have heard from other citizens and know we
could have had affordable HC here, we will ignore them and are
sure they are all wrong, kidding or just plain delusional.
I for one wish them good luck Jam, because if they live here,
they can look forward to a full blown case of medical bankruptcy!
We had our chance a long time ago to fix these things and we blew it.
We are primitive, barbaric, egotistical and extremely paranoid,
and we like that about us! It is who we are.
We will make sure nothing good happens for us.
Only more wars and strife.
I wish I had hope but its been dashed against the rocks.
For thats all I ever had. Thats all we had left.
The american dream is alive and well only in our imaginations now.
Get used to it, enjoy what you have left, cause this is as good as it will ever get. Our best days are behind us now regardless.
Welcome to the great contraction. Good luck.
Dodadoom or dont, but dont say you wasn't warned.
Yes, I am ranting now but who really cares anymore right?
As long as I can get mine! Am I getting it figured out yet?

President Obama rolls out his much-awaited message on health care reform to a joint session of congress this week after a summer of chaotic and often mendacious debate. The system now running is so unjust and ruinous that a citizenry unmedicated by psychotropic drugs would have burned down the insurers by now (and perhaps torched their doctors' BMWs). As a tactical matter, the best Mr. Obama can do about the "public option" is to endorse it while kicking the can down the road, since the stark insolvency of the US treasury obviates any real ability to make it happen.

kunstler.com...



[edit on 7-9-2009 by dodadoom]

The states should take care of their own... why though should we put trust in the federal government? They are in bed with the insurance companies... everyone is.. the corruption would destroy aall benign plans..

We should take care of our own but I fail to see why I in Oregon should pay for those in California, Florida, New York etc.. where the poverty levels would cause them to use the smaller states to pay into the larger states.

Centralized Healthcare will lead to Centralized corruption.

reply to post by jam321


If you need real health care, you wont find it at your local GP. Seek alternative health care, unless the situation requires immediate care - surgery.

The only thing you will get from your GP is the newest prescription poison on the market.

reply to post by iulslion

Seek alternative health care, unless the situation requires immediate care - surgery.

Many people do believe in alternative healthcare. I personally use a chiropractor every blue moon. Of course, my insurance doesn't cover it.

Do you think alternative healthcare should be part of any healthcare reform?

reply to post by Rockpuck

The states should take care of their own.

Interesting solution you propose. Would the States depend on the Federal government for any assistance?

We're AMaricans, we gots guns N wars N Jesus we don't need no stupid affordable health care, and you can't make us take it!

Really great thread! Star N Flag!



[edit on 7-9-2009 by Sundancer]

reply to post by dodadoom


you know it would be one thing if it were truly unbiased, then all would be fair. The problem lays in the fact that the People against things of any nature which could help People are swayed by their respective parties; who are in turn controlled by lobbies; who are in turn controlled by corporations; who are in turn controlled by evil men.

Taking all that in perspective, I would encourage People to start thinking about each other on all levels; in order to see through the corporate mind control occurring on so many levels, and fronts.

It falls in line with what Your saying about the land of the greed....... We have all been manipulated by the corporate cancers.

Really life is as simple as looking out for each other.

We could stop all wars, secure Our borders, and country; in so doing save a whole ton of money which could be applied to health care.

reply to post by iulslion

Excellent point and one I wanted to make also!
If you are healthy and use alternative therapies you dont really
need doctors and insurance in the first place!
I am a case in point.
I understand my body and what it needs, because I care.
It's the only body I've got!
Yes I have great insurance through work. Do I use it? Rarely.
Are there people that abuse it? Probably.

Although the dental insurance is nice.
IF one gets dental treatment in mexico it is the same price with no insurance as it is WITH insurance here. Aint that a co-inky dink!

Insurance should be for accidents not for living wrong.
Alot of the cost of HC in this country is directly related to bad foods and
too much food combined with a dangerous lack of exercise.
If we dont get a handle on that, nothing else will matter much anyway.
But thats an even scarier topic to bring up, hence no one does.
We only blame others. Typical.



[edit on 7-9-2009 by dodadoom]

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones

Wise words Sancho!
It is up to US to take care of ourselves AND each other.
(whatever 'group' you happen to belong to!)
Anything else is suicide. IMHO of course.....

We are all citizens of this planet and we ALL have a vested interest in it's future.

Thanks for the threads, for being a good friend and for watching out for us!
Peace and happiness brother and I hope your belly is starting to heal!

edit to add: I dont care if this sounds wishy washy or not,
As quick as I am to critisize, I am just as quick to say
I appreciate YOU also! Thanks everyone for putting up with my style.
Its not purty, but I get er' done!



[edit on 7-9-2009 by dodadoom]

reply to post by dodadoom


Some coins from a change jar doesn't help.

A Sunday's worth of a collection plate doesn't help.

Half of these operations for diseases and such, they cost HUNDREDS of thousands of dollars.

That's money most people don't have, and even if a "town" chips in, it's not going to pay...

We need reform! REFORM! Not the same system!

At least, if you're against Obama's plan, be for a different kind of plan!

OUR CURRENT SYSTEM SUCKS!

reply to post by dodadoom

It is up to US to take care of ourselves AND each other. (whatever 'group' you happen to belong to!) Anything else is suicide. IMHO of course..... We are all citizens of this planet and we ALL have a vested interest in it's future. Thanks for the threads, for being a good friend and for watching out for us! Peace and happiness brother and I hope your belly is starting to heal!

Absolutely!!! People should they see tomorrow that Our World is manipulated in order to maximize profit; I do believe it would immediately change for the better. Almost all arguments which go against the basic needs of the populace are designed, and geared by the Elite Just a fact.

My belly would be feeling a lot better should someone tell me where I can hook up with all that $$$dough ElectricUniverse is implying I make talking about a mexican ER, and how that somehow builds Obama's case..

I agree everyone needs and deserves good health care coverage. The insurance companies have dictated who they will cover long enough-Imo it is time the government did step in and ensured the well being of its citizenry.

[edit on 7-9-2009 by nocensorshipplease]

reply to post by Mak Manto

Thanks much for the reply!
I was being a smart a** in that post and I hope that was noticed.
I agree about the change jar and it doesnt cover squat.
However we played a show for a benefit and we raised over 10 grand
for a feller that got in an accident. (and its a small town)
If a million people give a dollar, how much is that?
Besides the moral issue behind it all.
Like what we are talking about helping each other.....
Or the gladness and relief it brought that family!

Edit to say: I agree totally!


[edit on 7-9-2009 by dodadoom]

reply to post by dodadoom


I agree as well.

I don't understand where this whole mentality of "I should only care about myself" came from.

I've heard it on here that people don't want to help others out, and I really want to know why? Is your money that more important then trying to save a life? Are you that damn greedy?

It's kind of sickening in a way.

reply to post by TheRedneck


Well first off you seen to be very independent which is good...
Going back to a previous post of yours I think you assume people
should be able to handle their shiz like you, be on top of things and suck their own
snake venom out when need be. I agree COBRA is virtually pointless, I can't tell
you how much I have paid for unused insurance myself, as of now I am covered thru a lady friend... Hell if I got sick and died for what ever reason, tough beans.
I do however think other people are thrilled with life and deserve a fair shake.

But you rolled on past my point about the airline industry - point was it is still private,
heavily controlled and is bought into as a service - not socialism. You sighted it is not necessary, which may be true for you, but I could very well use the same logic chain
and do away with toilets, "dig a f -ing hole, use your hand or find an alley."
Then you pointed out delays and blackout dates... Delays are a natural occurrence of air travel, you could charge $100,000 for a flight and still be delayed. Blackout dates, well
that would a point not to allow in any healthcare, regulated out or simply do not offer such "rewards". The point is it is safer than riding a bike, it is cheap, I spend five hours on a plane which cost me 20 an hour and include- gas, insurance, two pilots, three stewardesses, drinks, the ticket guy, the crappy baggage tossers, ATC, runway maintenance, plane design, advertising...................................

Alas I go to a doctor for five minutes, who has much less ACTUAL overhead to maintain the office and it costs me a $20 co pay and $110 ding to the insurance pool (which is reflected in premiums later on) - Doc gets the $20 co pay and $35 bucks if they are lucky...

Point is there is something really mess up in the picture -

The waste and inefficiency is in the middle man, because our laws are candy ass and
pander to the boards and multi national investors-

The system can be fixed without socialism if the FEDS took it as serious as the Airline industry. Regulate them to hell, force cost down, mandate the basic guidelines and don't worry, if their is money to be made business will find a way.

A plane cannot go up with so much as a rivet out of place, but those companies still do it and I have yet to die.

reply to post by dodadoom

amazing rant!

Thats what I see

Originally posted by dodadoom
reply to post by Mak Manto

 

Thanks much for the reply!
I was being a smart a** in that post and I hope that was noticed.
I agree about the change jar and it doesnt cover squat.
However we played a show for a benefit and we raised over 10 grand
for a feller that got in an accident.

(and its a small town)
If a million people give a dollar, how much is that?
Besides the moral issue behind it all.
Like what we are talking about helping each other.....
Or the gladness and relief it brought that family!

Edit to say: I agree totally!


[edit on 7-9-2009 by dodadoom]

Are you a musician???


Argggg hooorpp accckkk

third line

Originally posted by Rockpuck
The states should take care of their own... why though should we put trust in the federal government? They are in bed with the insurance companies... everyone is.. the corruption would destroy aall benign plans..

We should take care of our own but I fail to see why I in Oregon should pay for those in California, Florida, New York etc.. where the poverty levels would cause them to use the smaller states to pay into the larger states.

Centralized Healthcare will lead to Centralized corruption.

this is a fair concern

reply to post by jam321
If they're your friends, why don't YOU pay for their healthcare?

Why do you want me to pay for their healthcare?

There are 139 Million employed people in the US (Aug 09). There are 305 Million people living in the US (June 08). Do the math. Every person has to pay for two people. No Way.

reply to post by mental modulator

Are you a musician???

Through and through.
To the core.
Unfortunately, for it is frustrating sometimes when you are a perfectionist!
Kidding.....
I am gratefull for my talent and for the ability to help others.

Thanks for your posts and friendship MM!