We are born to believe in God

Originally posted by A Fortiori
reply to post by tungus

 

Here we go...

*eyeroll*

Because atheists never did anything wrong *cough cough Stalin cough cough*

It seems to be that the underlying commonality in violence and evil is not "religion" as the Stalins and Pol Pot's of the world have shown us, but man.

Common misconception is that Stalin Pol Pot, and let's not forget Hitler, killed because they were atheists.

It is true that Stalin, Mao Zedong and Pol Pot, were all atheists. But the primary influences that led to their atrocities were not atheism per se but their dogmatic Marxism and communist ideas.
source

Men kill each other. Religions don't.

Funny you should say that, perhaps you skipped the passages in the various 'holy' books where the infidels are to be stoned, burned and killed.

The OP says that being religious has evolutionary advantage.
Religion is never the driving force behind progress, be it modern or prehistoric. They couldn't be happier if we lived in the stone age. Then they can make all kinds of claims and the religious folk wouldn't have to deal with scientific embarrassments.

Originally posted by Deaf Alien

Originally posted by Jazzyguy

We are born to believe in God

www.timesonline.co.uk

The idea has emerged from studies of the way children’s brains develop and of the workings of the brain during religious experiences. They suggest that during evolution groups of humans with religious tendencies began to benefit from their beliefs, perhaps because they tended to work together better and so stood a greater chance of survival.

(visit the link for the full news article)

It is astounding how we SURVIVE this far. We have so many opposing religions in the world, it is a wonder how we have survived at all.

Many of the dead would beg to differ with the assertion of survival if they had a voice. Man has stumbled to the point where we are at now.

[edit on 6-9-2009 by john124]

Originally posted by hautmess
The more i think about it. The more I think i'm already in heaven.

life is so beautiful.

I encounter too many stupid people and needless tragedies for it to be heaven.

[edit on 6-9-2009 by yellowcard]

Originally posted by A Fortiori
reply to post by tungus

 

Here we go...

*eyeroll*

Because atheists never did anything wrong *cough cough Stalin cough cough*

It seems to be that the underlying commonality in violence and evil is not "religion" as the Stalins and Pol Pot's of the world have shown us, but man.

Men kill each other. Religions don't.

Typical religious fool, you know not what you talk about. Stalin wasn't an atheist like Richard Dawkins, all dictators like Stalin are against religion because the church threatens their power. It's all about controlling the people, not about believing that there is or is not a god.

Originally posted by tungus

Originally posted by A Fortiori
reply to post by tungus

 

Here we go...

*eyeroll*

Because atheists never did anything wrong *cough cough Stalin cough cough*

It seems to be that the underlying commonality in violence and evil is not "religion" as the Stalins and Pol Pot's of the world have shown us, but man.

Common misconception is that Stalin Pol Pot, and let's not forget Hitler, killed because they were atheists.

It is true that Stalin, Mao Zedong and Pol Pot, were all atheists. But the primary influences that led to their atrocities were not atheism per se but their dogmatic Marxism and communist ideas.
source

Men kill each other. Religions don't.

Funny you should say that, perhaps you skipped the passages in the various 'holy' books where the infidels are to be stoned, burned and killed.

The OP says that being religious has evolutionary advantage.

Religion is never the driving force behind progress, be it modern or prehistoric. They couldn't be happier if we lived in the stone age. Then they can make all kinds of claims and the religious folk wouldn't have to deal with scientific embarrassments.

I agree with most of what you said here but Hitler did believe in a God.

"I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2 "

"Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise.

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 1 "

Those are just two of a few quotes of his.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
This only proves that people of like mind and beliefs banded together for their safety/advancement.

I do agree with that article however that perhaps a belief in higher powers would have lead to better living conditions while these people were all living together.

However once another tribe with different beliefs came into the mix, I assume that violence and hatred soon followed.

An unfortunate but very real bi-product of religion at early stages of human development.

~Keeper

Thing to keep in mind is that the Old Testament is basically a story about how one group of tribes banded together to conquer all the peoples of Canaan, only to have to then hold onto it.

But it's only one. If you look to the Celts, the cultures of the Indus valley, those in North America, etc.... it's not so much about what you are believing, it's the order that a collective belief brings about within a society of like resources, goals, and genetic dispositions, given any specific environmental situation. Genetic dispositions aren't necessarily required, but they do lower the bar of xenophobic problems greatly, and were created due to common migrations within geographic boundaries.

In these situations, your very reality was based on this collective order, so "religious tolerance" was not exactly a virtue with benefits. It wasn't until the Axial age came to pass that peoples lived together in such differences of cultural backgrounds that the Golden Rule came about... "Love your neighbor as yourself" becomes a virtue when you are surrounded by those who believe different things and wish to bring about a collective order.

What becomes problematic, is when 80 to 90% of the group wish to follow the Golden Rule and the other 10-20% are stuck acting out the impulses in which religious tolerance or "difference tolerance" is not associated with survival, but demise as it was before.

Then mix in pattern recognition and a sense of certainty and self importance to the mix, and you get all sorts of different outcomes.

Th

reply to post by DraconianKing


Hitler's attitude about God was ambiguious. Records of private conversations with Himmler have him saying that eventually he wanted to eliminate Christianity and replace it with a kind of nordic neo-paganism. That was right up Himmler's alley. He may have been saying that just to placate Himmler, though...its hard to say. He also raved and ranted against Christianity in other times and places. But I've never seen him advocate Athiesm per se...just the replacement of Christianity with more esoteric nordic stuff like rune-lore, etc. The SS was certainly deep into those sorts of rituals, mostly due to Himmler, who was a true occultist. Hitler himself more-than-dabbled in the occult, especially as a youth. His private library (which can be found in its entirity today at Brown University, oddly enough) had an extremely large number of occult books, with his personal notes scrawled in the margins, underlinings, etc.

Yep, Hitler was influenced by Madam Blavatsky's spiritual teaching. Fancied himself something of a Messiah. And sought out magical artifacts, such as the Spear of Destiny.

Hitler was not a disciple of Christ, but he was no atheist.


[edit on 7-9-2009 by Praetorian Guard]

Originally posted by Praetorian Guard
Yep, Hitler was influenced by Madam Blavatsky's spiritual teaching. Fancied himself something of a Messiah. And sought out magical artifacts, such as the Spear of Destiny.

Hitler was not a disciple of Christ, but he was no atheist.


[edit on 7-9-2009 by Praetorian Guard]

Hitler was influenced by Madame Blavatsky in the same way Jesus influenced Charles Manson.

There were a bunch of odd esoteric groups and ideas floating around Germany and Europe when Hitler was a down-and-out "aspiring artist"...In addition to Nordic runelore and Blavatsky, there were groups like the ONT (Order of New Templars), plus theories like Theozoology, which is a particularly wild one involving ancient breeding programs with "sodom apes" and the "holy electron." There were the Ariosophists, who put a kind of "Aryan" spin on Theosophy. Then there was the Thule Society, which Hitler may or may not have been a member of...all of these ideas bubbled in many a strange cauldron for sure and Hitler imbibed more than a few saucerfulls of these odd secrets.

For those who are interested, I highly recommend the book The Occult Roots of Nazism: Secret Aryan Cults and Their Influence on Nazi Ideology.

You all have played right into the global world and satan's hands on this one -

God is God - Jesus - there's only One. There's always only
been One.

Mankind came along and decided HE was better than God, and didn't need Him for anything. i.e. mankind chose to become their own "gods".

Mankind then began creating "religions" - how many do we now have today?

True Christians are not part of the world's "religions" nor do they choose to align themselves with this global worldly mentality.

Yet, the secular society always, always wants to blame, who else, but the Christians, and God, every time something goes wrong.

Fyi: the millions out there killing in the name of "religion" are not true Christians. They are killing out of allegiance to something that satan created through man.

God has nothing to do with "religion". God is God - He made laws for us and mankind came along and decided to rewrite, revamp and toss out the things that weren't compatible, nor comfortable, with man's lifestyles.

If people would go back, all the way back, to when time first began for us, it was God, and only God, that was the ultimate entity.

Since the beginning of time, satan has used, and is using, mankind to slide in his agenda(s).

That's why the Bible explains it that some people will choose to 'remain asleep' and some will be alert.

If you choose to remain asleep, satan has you right where he wants you. Whether you're an atheist or a professed Christian.

Read the headlines, look around you out in the world - all of what's going on today is predicted in Daniel and Revelation. If you read those two books alone, in the Bible, you shouldn't have to wonder what's coming next.
(I recommend the original King James Bible as it is what has been handed down for centuries - the others have been tampered with by mankind).

Take heed - satan will be deceiving even the very elect.

I belive in god, and always will. I was raised portestant, though my father was catholic, and mother was potestant, alter becoming mroe catholic like..
I belive, since thei were humans, the very first human..he/she had to belive in something. its a character trait we have,.the emotinal need to belive tha hties a supreme power or being greater than we are. I cant say much about htis belif, with cavemen and neanderthals.. the egyptians had gods, so did the AAboriginis in Australia. The greeks and romans had gods...so did the native indians before the white man came. Even though an ocean spereaed us from eahothers continent...being so far from contact..we all had something in common. The belif in the aftelife, and something, someone up in hte sky called'father'

"Who really knows?"
-The Rig Veda, 2nd millenium BC

Originally posted by silent thunder
"Who really knows?"
-The Rig Veda, 2nd millenium BC

Awesome!

That's great....

Actually your born to emulate god more and more, that is the equation of life moving up through the awareness ladder. The universal friendship that makes us whole.

[edit on 7-9-2009 by menguard]

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by Praetorian Guard
Yep, Hitler was influenced by Madam Blavatsky's spiritual teaching. Fancied himself something of a Messiah. And sought out magical artifacts, such as the Spear of Destiny.

Hitler was not a disciple of Christ, but he was no atheist.


[edit on 7-9-2009 by Praetorian Guard]

Hitler was influenced by Madame Blavatsky in the same way Jesus influenced Charles Manson.

Hi/

Hitler was probably influenced by evil,hatred and dark powers(dark shadows that appeared to him in his sleep)all combined....but I can honestly say that Charles Manson was NOT in any way influenced by Jesus Christ!
There is a saying ''Guard your mind''....it's amazing what the mind can do, if let un-guarded!

ICXC NIKA
helen
Charles Manson, was

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by A Fortiori

 

Actually, not to be mean about it or anything.

But as far as I can tell, the Crusades and those types of adventures were done because:

"You pray to a different God, Pray To Mine Or Die"

And other various reasons of course, but that would be the main one. Let's ask all the native americans if religion was not the cause of their children being taken from their homes and taught different langues and a different religion.

I am not saying that religion is inherintly evil, I think alot of good can come from religion so long as people understand that it is a personal thing and not to be projected unwillingly unto others.
~Keeper

Religion in itself is powerless. One could argue that religion is nothing but a tool...but when there exist so many minds willing to kill in the name of Allah, or God, or Rosie O'Donnell, or whatever the hell they realize as their supreme entity, you cannot help but weep for mankind and its inexcusable folly!

Religion was merely a scapegoat during the crusades, mostly...The Knight Templars spring to mind. The problem there was not religion, per se, rather money (the dumbest and most dangerous religion of them all!). King Philip IV slaughtered and tortured thousands. His motive; the accumulation of cash. His justifcation to the public was a ridiculously untrue and illogical religious pretext. Where there is gold, there is greed. Public figures simply can't afford to present themselves as tyrannical, else they risk a backlash. That's the sweet thing about religion; you can justify anything by saying ooga booga!

[edit on 7-9-2009 by VergeofObscene]

I don't think we were born to believe in God. I think people believe in God because of the circumstances (family, church) and they can profit from that.

For some the profit is/was only a good feeling, like believing in afterlife.

For some the profit is/was power - the belief in afterlife helped many kings in the medieval. Normally your army wouldn't be very happy of going into a war with a very real chance of dying. But of course the rulers told their armies that if they fight well for the ***** (God, Allah, Pharaon - who was in fact God as well, etc) they will be saved in the afterlife. If they die fighting for the God, it's even better

For some the profit is/was money. The church has always been very rich (indulgences, tithes).

I'm not saying that believing in some higher power is bad - and it can definitely help you - but we weren't born to believe in God. If you grow up a child and you never mention God, the child will have to reason to think up a God.

[edit on 7/9/2009 by marcus33cz]

A similar article was published in the New scientist magazine in Jan/Feb of this year.

Called "Born believers: How your brain creates god".

Unfortunately.... New scientist now only allow subscribers of their magazine to read articles online.


The article (in full) can be found here though,

www.liveleak.com...

Life after death (God) is a survival instinct that has gone to an extreme beyond rational thought. It is embedded so deeply in most people that they can not even comprehend that there is nothing when you die. God is just a way to live even after you die, it allows for little or no fear.

Its kinda like when you go into a dark room or basement and the hairs on your arm stand up and you get a creepy feeling running up and down your spine and you swear something is looking at you...thats an instinct built into you to keep you aware in unfamiliar surroundings or the unknown things in the dark. The eyes that are watching you is your brain telling you to look behind you, that there might be something there ready to eat your face.

God is watching you! But dont turn around or you'll be turned into salt.