...Continued.
11) How is it that no other Steel framed building has ever collapsed due to fire, yet on 911 it happened 3 times, Once without any structural damage
from the impact of planes?
WIKIPEDIA : John P. O'Neill
12) Can it be just a coincidence that the Pentagon impact site was in the only area of the Pentagon reinforced with steel and designed to withstand
missile attack?
How the Pentagon renovations paid off
13) Why wasn't Bush whisked away by Secret Service the moment the second plane hit the twin towers, and it became apparent it was a terrorist
attack?
14) Why Did Donald Rumsfeld tell the junior officer that "of course the order still stands, have you heard anything to the contrary!"
15) Is it plausible that an FBI officer who left his job investigating possible terror links because of orders not to investigate Saudi nationals,
would go on to die in the Twin Towers where he had taken a job as head of security?
16) Why did Mayor Giuliani not proceed to the Office of Emergency Management in building 7, how did he know it wasn't safe?
17) How come FEMA was in NYC the day before, preparing for a drill, is that merely a coincidence too?
18) Why was there never a proper investigation of the Put Options taken out on various Airline Stocks in the build up to 911, why did the 911
Commission not deem it worthy of further investigation?
CBS News: Profiting From Disaster?
19) How could there be hundreds of witnesses to secondary explosions in the WTC complex, but all of these people be disregarded by the 911
commission.
20) Why did it take so long for the 911 commission to be convened, with a tiny budget, full of government and industry (airline) insiders, clearly it
was impossible to investigate 911 impartially and subjectively, with not government interference.
TIME MAGAZINE: 9-11 Commission Funding Woes
....Continued....
40 Questions which make believing the OS Grotesque, page 1
privacy
Topic started on 6-9-2009 @ 06:19 PM by kiwifoot
Now to kick off I have to say that I'm usually against anti-threads, I actually wrote a thread complaining about it. But this course of action has
been forced upon me by a thread that has been in the charts for a few days now, and I must be honest when I say the behaviour of the OP has forced me
to do counter with this thread.
When a thread is laid down at the feet of Truthers, with the sole purpose to antagonise and deride, and the OP and supporters refuse to listen to rational arguments and act honourably then there is little choice in the matter.
Now these questions are my own, nobody else has written them, you may have answers, a lot may have been debunked already, if so I apologise as they really are done off the top of my head.
It took me 20 minutes to write them down (a lot longer to load it all on ATS lol!), and I feel, quite strongly, that to ignore these doubts is far more GROTESQUE a crime than asking them!
So here goes, as I said I jotted these down in twenty minutes and they are in no real order, just as they came into my head, imagine what I could have done if I had sat down and researched them thoroughly, BUT, just as in another thread that really hadn't had a lot of time put into it, I decided to go with my gut instinct.
1) Why was intel from several foreign intelligence sources warning of an impending terrorist attack ignored by the FBI & CIA?
Multiple Intelligence Warnings Converged on 11th September
German trial hears how Iranian agent warned US of impending Al-Qaeda attack
2) How was it possible that at least 10 passengers on board Flight 93 were able to use cell phones to call loved ones, when United Airlines made such a big deal of launching this feature on their planes several years later.
The Cellphone and Airphone Calls from Flight UA93
3)Why was there no significant plane wreckage in Shanksville, especially compared to other vertical plane crashes in the past?
Flight 93 impact crater.
4) Why did Donald Rumsfeld refer to the "People who shot down the plane over Pennsylvania"? (Turn Volume up please!)
5) How could it be that leading up to and on the morning of 911, there were multiple drills, tests and war-games happening at the exact time of the attacks, was it coincidence or did the attackers know this was the case, if so who told them?
NORAD had drills of jets as weapons
6) How could the CIA and FBI fail so miserably in tracking and detecting this plot, and is it possible they did come into contact with them and fail to act?
'20th Hijacker': FBI Set Surveillance
9/11 Report Cites CIA, FBI Lapses
7) How could there possibly be only one Pentagon camera that caught the attack, bearing in mind the Pentagon is the centre of the largest and most powerful military in the world, there must have been cameras on the wall and roof of the building pointing out.?
8) Why were videos from businesses and other buildings confiscated IMMEDIATELY after the attacks and not returned, why have these videos never been made public?
NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC: Three Months On, Tension Lingers Near the Pentagon
9) Why didn't the 911 commission ask for eyewitness testimony from those who saw, felt and experienced explosions in the basement of the WTC towers, before the planes hit?
10) Why was there extensive damage to the Lobby of Tower 2 when the plane hit some seventy stories above?
Continued......
When a thread is laid down at the feet of Truthers, with the sole purpose to antagonise and deride, and the OP and supporters refuse to listen to rational arguments and act honourably then there is little choice in the matter.
Now these questions are my own, nobody else has written them, you may have answers, a lot may have been debunked already, if so I apologise as they really are done off the top of my head.
It took me 20 minutes to write them down (a lot longer to load it all on ATS lol!), and I feel, quite strongly, that to ignore these doubts is far more GROTESQUE a crime than asking them!
So here goes, as I said I jotted these down in twenty minutes and they are in no real order, just as they came into my head, imagine what I could have done if I had sat down and researched them thoroughly, BUT, just as in another thread that really hadn't had a lot of time put into it, I decided to go with my gut instinct.
1) Why was intel from several foreign intelligence sources warning of an impending terrorist attack ignored by the FBI & CIA?
Multiple Intelligence Warnings Converged on 11th September
German trial hears how Iranian agent warned US of impending Al-Qaeda attack
2) How was it possible that at least 10 passengers on board Flight 93 were able to use cell phones to call loved ones, when United Airlines made such a big deal of launching this feature on their planes several years later.
The Cellphone and Airphone Calls from Flight UA93
3)Why was there no significant plane wreckage in Shanksville, especially compared to other vertical plane crashes in the past?
Flight 93 impact crater.
4) Why did Donald Rumsfeld refer to the "People who shot down the plane over Pennsylvania"? (Turn Volume up please!)
5) How could it be that leading up to and on the morning of 911, there were multiple drills, tests and war-games happening at the exact time of the attacks, was it coincidence or did the attackers know this was the case, if so who told them?
NORAD had drills of jets as weapons
6) How could the CIA and FBI fail so miserably in tracking and detecting this plot, and is it possible they did come into contact with them and fail to act?
'20th Hijacker': FBI Set Surveillance
9/11 Report Cites CIA, FBI Lapses
7) How could there possibly be only one Pentagon camera that caught the attack, bearing in mind the Pentagon is the centre of the largest and most powerful military in the world, there must have been cameras on the wall and roof of the building pointing out.?
8) Why were videos from businesses and other buildings confiscated IMMEDIATELY after the attacks and not returned, why have these videos never been made public?
NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC: Three Months On, Tension Lingers Near the Pentagon
Velasquez says the gas station's security cameras are close enough to the Pentagon to have recorded the moment of impact. "I've never seen what the pictures looked like," he said. "The FBI was here within minutes and took the film."
9) Why didn't the 911 commission ask for eyewitness testimony from those who saw, felt and experienced explosions in the basement of the WTC towers, before the planes hit?
10) Why was there extensive damage to the Lobby of Tower 2 when the plane hit some seventy stories above?
Continued......
reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 06:21 PM by kiwifoot
...Continued....
21) Why did George Bush and Dick Cheney insist on appearing before the 911 commission together, and not under oath, what did they have to hide?
22) Why was the majority of the steel from the WTC sent away to be recycled so quickly, when it could have contained clues to the collapse and was needed to help the government determine if another building could ever collapse because of fire.
Baosteel Will Recycle World Trade Center Debris 24 Jan 2002
23) How could witnesses have heard a countdown, moments before WTC7 collapsed, in a fashion very similar to a controlled demolition?
24) What happened to the Black Boxes from the planes that hit the WTC, reports suggested they were found but the details never made public, or did they just disappear into thin air?
25) Why was the transfer of $100,000 from the head of the ISI to Mohamed Atta never fully investigated by the 911 commission and deemed of no importance to the investigation?
The Guardian: The Pakistan connection
26) How can it be that the several of the alleged hijackers were proclaimed alive after the attacks, some saying they had lost passports?
BBC News: Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
Telegraph: Revealed: the men with stolen identities
27) What sort of hijacker takes a 757 flight manual, a list of his accomplices and other incriminating evidence with him on a hijack mission, and why did this bag mysteriously not make it onto his plane?
Guardian: When zero hour arrives
Last words of a terrorist
28) How could fireman and other first responders report 'molten steel' at ground zero, sometimes days after the collapse, but this be totally disregard by NIST in their report, and what kind of chemical reaction needs to occur for steel to melt in an office fire?
29) Why were members of the Bin Laden family allowed to leave the US in the wake of the 911 attacks, when they may have held information regarding Osama Bin Laden?
SKY News: Bin Laden Family 'Evacuated' From US
30) If the US and Allies had no idea 911 was going to happen, how was the invasion of Afghanistan and Patriot Act already planned?
BBC News: US 'planned attack on Taleban'
....Continued....
21) Why did George Bush and Dick Cheney insist on appearing before the 911 commission together, and not under oath, what did they have to hide?
22) Why was the majority of the steel from the WTC sent away to be recycled so quickly, when it could have contained clues to the collapse and was needed to help the government determine if another building could ever collapse because of fire.
Baosteel Will Recycle World Trade Center Debris 24 Jan 2002
23) How could witnesses have heard a countdown, moments before WTC7 collapsed, in a fashion very similar to a controlled demolition?
24) What happened to the Black Boxes from the planes that hit the WTC, reports suggested they were found but the details never made public, or did they just disappear into thin air?
25) Why was the transfer of $100,000 from the head of the ISI to Mohamed Atta never fully investigated by the 911 commission and deemed of no importance to the investigation?
The Guardian: The Pakistan connection
26) How can it be that the several of the alleged hijackers were proclaimed alive after the attacks, some saying they had lost passports?
BBC News: Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
Telegraph: Revealed: the men with stolen identities
27) What sort of hijacker takes a 757 flight manual, a list of his accomplices and other incriminating evidence with him on a hijack mission, and why did this bag mysteriously not make it onto his plane?
Guardian: When zero hour arrives
Last words of a terrorist
28) How could fireman and other first responders report 'molten steel' at ground zero, sometimes days after the collapse, but this be totally disregard by NIST in their report, and what kind of chemical reaction needs to occur for steel to melt in an office fire?
29) Why were members of the Bin Laden family allowed to leave the US in the wake of the 911 attacks, when they may have held information regarding Osama Bin Laden?
SKY News: Bin Laden Family 'Evacuated' From US
30) If the US and Allies had no idea 911 was going to happen, how was the invasion of Afghanistan and Patriot Act already planned?
BBC News: US 'planned attack on Taleban'
....Continued....
reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 06:22 PM by kiwifoot
...Continued...
31) Why was the involvement of Saudi Arabia never question publicly by the 911 commission, and why was any section of the report pertaining to the Saudis blacked out?
Guardian: FBI claims Bin Laden inquiry was frustrated
32) Why is there a discrepancy between the time of the Flight 93 crash in the 911 Commission report and the black box from the flight, and why were the relatives of the victims not allowed to listen to the last 3 minutes of the CVR?
Flight 93 'was shot down' claims book
FOX News Flight recorder Transcript
33) Why is Osama Bin Laden not credited with 911 on the FBI's most wanted List?
FBI Most Wanted Bin Laden
34) How can traces of Thermite be found in samples of dust from the WTC collapse?
35) Why did Larry Silverstein say "Pull it" with reference to the collapse of WTC7?
36) How could George Bush have seen the first plane hit the Towers on TV, when the impact was not shown live, or at all until the Naudet Brothers film?
37) How convenient is it that in the wake of 911, the fact that Donald Rumsfeld announced that there were TRILLIONS missing from the defence departments books?
38) Why was the Military response so inept on 911, fighters were scrambled, but sent off on wild goose chases, there was no clear plan, and why haven't new tighter rules been implemented since nor have there been any disciplinary actions taken (actually I believe all those involved were promoted)?
39) Why was there manipulation of press releases concerning the quality of the air after 911, and why is there continued inaction on the part of the US government regarding the health of 911 first responders.
40) Why did George Bush mention explosives in the WTC trapping casualties?
As you can see, I've tried to include as many respectable news articles and news videos as I could. Limiting the number of pro-Truth and alternative reports to a minimum. No surprises that it's hard to find US news reports, so I have had to use UK ones for the most part.
To Truthers these articles and You-tube videos are nothing new, but hopefully, there may be a few sceptics out there who may start to ask a few questions, just like we all did, and come to the same GROTESQUE but unfortunately unavoidable conclusion.
All the best to you all, Kiwifoot.
31) Why was the involvement of Saudi Arabia never question publicly by the 911 commission, and why was any section of the report pertaining to the Saudis blacked out?
Guardian: FBI claims Bin Laden inquiry was frustrated
32) Why is there a discrepancy between the time of the Flight 93 crash in the 911 Commission report and the black box from the flight, and why were the relatives of the victims not allowed to listen to the last 3 minutes of the CVR?
Flight 93 'was shot down' claims book
Seismic records, consolidated from four seismology stations in the region, originally pegged the impact time at 10.06am. It was only later that the Pentagon and the 9/11 Commission decreed that the correct impact time to have been at 10.03am.
FOX News Flight recorder Transcript
33) Why is Osama Bin Laden not credited with 911 on the FBI's most wanted List?
FBI Most Wanted Bin Laden
34) How can traces of Thermite be found in samples of dust from the WTC collapse?
35) Why did Larry Silverstein say "Pull it" with reference to the collapse of WTC7?
36) How could George Bush have seen the first plane hit the Towers on TV, when the impact was not shown live, or at all until the Naudet Brothers film?
37) How convenient is it that in the wake of 911, the fact that Donald Rumsfeld announced that there were TRILLIONS missing from the defence departments books?
38) Why was the Military response so inept on 911, fighters were scrambled, but sent off on wild goose chases, there was no clear plan, and why haven't new tighter rules been implemented since nor have there been any disciplinary actions taken (actually I believe all those involved were promoted)?
39) Why was there manipulation of press releases concerning the quality of the air after 911, and why is there continued inaction on the part of the US government regarding the health of 911 first responders.
40) Why did George Bush mention explosives in the WTC trapping casualties?
As you can see, I've tried to include as many respectable news articles and news videos as I could. Limiting the number of pro-Truth and alternative reports to a minimum. No surprises that it's hard to find US news reports, so I have had to use UK ones for the most part.
To Truthers these articles and You-tube videos are nothing new, but hopefully, there may be a few sceptics out there who may start to ask a few questions, just like we all did, and come to the same GROTESQUE but unfortunately unavoidable conclusion.
All the best to you all, Kiwifoot.
reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 06:24 PM by ugie1028
Id like to add these images from the 9/11 truth site.
files.abovetopsecret.com...
Ill just post the link to the next image, it doesn't fully appear on the thread for some reason...
S&F OP, i was waiting for someone to Make a retaliation thread to Pathos's grotesque narrow-minded Thread.
files.abovetopsecret.com...
Ill just post the link to the next image, it doesn't fully appear on the thread for some reason...
S&F OP, i was waiting for someone to Make a retaliation thread to Pathos's grotesque narrow-minded Thread.
reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 06:32 PM by kiwifoot
reply to post by ugie1028
I must have irked somebody, my pc has gone haywire, I cannot fix some of the you-tube vids that don't work, will keep trying!
Back soon!
I must have irked somebody, my pc has gone haywire, I cannot fix some of the you-tube vids that don't work, will keep trying!
Back soon!
reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 06:40 PM by kiwifoot
reply to post by jprophet420
It isn't so much his thread, or what he said, we actually (for the most part) agree with him- in that if the Govt were involved with 911 it is extremely grotesque! However if you cannot start a debate with 'it can't be this way because it's grotesque/sick/stupid', what chance is there for a logical discussion?
And his behaviour throughout his thread!!?? (oh and yes, some truthers too!) Really, if you want to TRY and insult people for the sake of TRYING, there must be other places to do it!
It isn't so much his thread, or what he said, we actually (for the most part) agree with him- in that if the Govt were involved with 911 it is extremely grotesque! However if you cannot start a debate with 'it can't be this way because it's grotesque/sick/stupid', what chance is there for a logical discussion?
And his behaviour throughout his thread!!?? (oh and yes, some truthers too!) Really, if you want to TRY and insult people for the sake of TRYING, there must be other places to do it!
reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 06:59 PM by Arrowmancer
reply to post by jprophet420
Actually, I thought the thread was put together extremely well. The purpose was clearly defined, the layout was logical, and the effect was very good.
I was skeptical... as is my nature, until about question 12. It must have taken some digging to get the vids and news articles all together. This is probably the best presentation the argument of government involvement/complicity that I've seen yet.
Just one question to the OP. Nothing mentioned about BLDG7... Can you introduce any linkage here?
Actually, I thought the thread was put together extremely well. The purpose was clearly defined, the layout was logical, and the effect was very good.
I was skeptical... as is my nature, until about question 12. It must have taken some digging to get the vids and news articles all together. This is probably the best presentation the argument of government involvement/complicity that I've seen yet.
Just one question to the OP. Nothing mentioned about BLDG7... Can you introduce any linkage here?
reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 07:04 PM by ugie1028
reply to post by Arrowmancer
Look at the 2 pics i posted under his massive OP.
I think this one was good.
Look at the 2 pics i posted under his massive OP.
I think this one was good.
reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 07:37 PM by jprophet420
reply to post by Arrowmancer
Right. And you really think its "grotesque" to be of the opinion the OS is true? Why even bother posting in that case? Don't fight propaganda with propaganda, fight it with facts. I don't care which "side" you're on its a waste of time.
Right. And you really think its "grotesque" to be of the opinion the OS is true? Why even bother posting in that case? Don't fight propaganda with propaganda, fight it with facts. I don't care which "side" you're on its a waste of time.
reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 07:43 PM by 7redorbs
Originally posted by jprophet420
reply to post by Arrowmancer
Right. And you really think its "grotesque" to be of the opinion the OS is true? Why even bother posting in that case? Don't fight propaganda with propaganda, fight it with facts. I don't care which "side" you're on its a waste of time.
You do know it is possible to post the truth in a propagandist way? Advantage is that people listen to it, more people even. Sensationalism is not without it's place in a world of un-sensational minds.
A
reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 08:12 PM by jprophet420
Originally posted by 7redorbs
Originally posted by jprophet420
reply to post by Arrowmancer
Right. And you really think its "grotesque" to be of the opinion the OS is true? Why even bother posting in that case? Don't fight propaganda with propaganda, fight it with facts. I don't care which "side" you're on its a waste of time.
You do know it is possible to post the truth in a propagandist way? Advantage is that people listen to it, more people even. Sensationalism is not without it's place in a world of un-sensational minds.
A
Yes, sorry. In my humble opinion its not worth it. Apologies to OP. The thread itself is not terrible, the title is mocking. Many of the points are great. Willie Rodriguez is every debunkers best friend. He would have opened the door for them too, even if he knew what they would do to him afterwards.
Bombs on the lowest floors of the towers reported by many, ignored in the investigation. Terrible forensics. Terribad as they say on the internet. Pathetic even.
Imagine if 911 was on your favorite forensic show. McGeek would find out who did it and DiNozo would sleep with someone. Horatio would see the explosion in slow motion and right into the building. We didnt even try hard. Sad.
reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 08:37 PM by 7redorbs
reply to post by jprophet420
Seriously, don't be sorry
I'm by no means disagreeing with your distaste for society. I just think that sometimes you need a headline, and you
know I really hope Cult - ure takes response - ability over it one day 
A
Seriously, don't be sorry
I'm by no means disagreeing with your distaste for society. I just think that sometimes you need a headline, and you
know I really hope Cult - ure takes response - ability over it one day A
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