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UFOs and logic VS skepticks

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posted on Sep, 6 2009 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by cranberrydork
 


why thank you sir

they get mad easy when faced with logic, not so good at math and go church like a good lil sheepy lol





posted on Sep, 6 2009 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
well thank you for your kind words, even tho you have note stated your position yet?


My position is irrelevant. You made a claim that you could prove aliens exist using logic. Whether or not I think God or aliens exists should have no bearing on your argument. If you can prove it, as you claim, present your argument.


Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
did god makke you and are aliens real?


A non-sequitur argument. One has nothing to do with the other and they are not mutually exclusive ideas.


Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
and befor you ppostt
1) you live on a planet in a universe with no shape orbiting a sun.
2) your on a pc..


What does this have to do with anything?

Considering your inarticulate responses to myself and other members, I am beginning to think my comment your opening post resembled a drunken ramble was not far off the mark.



posted on Sep, 6 2009 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by TheMythLives
reply to post by symmetricAvenger
 


What? When did I say that religion was the reason?..lol... I think your making stuff up. And why is it that skeptics "fear", I don't really care if they exist or not, its just that I don't see the probability. Plus I am probably the most open minded person you will meet in New Orleans, there is no such thing as woven. Seldom affirm and never deny any theory.


one word probability lol

do you know the probability of you being here is more than aliens? lol why? your the one asking


take it you never did well in math?

this is the point you think you being here is OK but aliens omg no wayyyy

guess what.. yes way



posted on Sep, 6 2009 @ 10:15 AM
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reply to post by DoomsdayRex
 


no you are being a troll

state what you think or move on

simple



posted on Sep, 6 2009 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
they get mad easy when faced with logic, not so good at math and go church like a good lil sheepy lol


I think we have found a clue to what you are getting on about.

So, to get this straight, you think if someone doesn't believe aliens are visiting the Earth then it must mean they are a brainwashed church-going automaton?

However, we are still at a loss about what logic you have presented. There has been no logic, just an inarticulate rant.



[edit on 6-9-2009 by DoomsdayRex]



posted on Sep, 6 2009 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by symmetricAvenger

...one word probability lol

do you know the probability of you being here is more than aliens? lol why? your the one asking


take it you never did well in math?

this is the point you think you being here is OK but aliens omg no wayyyy

guess what.. yes way

Can you show me the math that proves it is at least just as likely that aliens are visiting the Earth than it is for an intelligent species to evolve on the Earth?

Perhaps you don't have the math, and that's OK. If you don't, then can you please show me your line of logical thinking that proves this?



[edit on 9/6/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]



posted on Sep, 6 2009 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by symmetricAvenger
 


Same for you, one word: Randomness. Probability cannot beat Randomness Theory. So until you explain that scenario, I am unconvinced that intelligent life is out their. I am open to the idea, but Probability is not that valid of an argument anymore, in my opinion.

For help in the theory of Randomness, refer here:

Now the real question is probability, I believe that probability is the biggest factor in this. Yet, what is probabilities flaw? What is the one thing probability cannot predict? That my friends is the theory of randomness. The theory of randomness states that everything is all simply coincidence that their is no grand meaning no basic pattern, no choosing, nothing. Its all unpredictable and cannot be solved through probability, because probability focus's on a pattern. For instance:

Our body is here and we developed from the soup in the ocean years ago, so if they happened here, why can they not happen else where. This is what the theory of probability is, if it happened once, it can happen again. Yet the theory of randomness does not follow the same logic. Infact it follows nothing. Random changes in random molecules created the world and that same randomness pattern started evolution over a period of time and then through RANDOM changes as stated in evolution created the beings that we see today. Its all random.

However, what the probability theory originates is through a "pattern" of some sort. The probability of life on other planets have been created by the life ON EARTH! Yet in our science it states specifically that:


The molecular world is dominated by random events.
Random Molecules


Over many generations, adaptations occur through a combination of successive, small, random changes in traits, and natural selection of the variants best-suited for their environment.[4] The other major mechanism driving evolution is genetic drift, an independent process that produces random changes in the frequency of traits in a population.
Random DNA, Evolution


Genetic variation comes from random mutations that occur in the genomes of organisms.
Evolution

The real question is, is the theory of random singular (menaing does it only happen once). Well the fact it does. It only happens once and it only focus's in one direction for if it happened more than once it would not be random, it would be a pattern, which relates back to probability. Einstein stated that two objects cannot occupy the same space, the question is if their is life out their in the grand universe, would this be denying the two objects in one space scenario? Could we survive with others out their? The theory of randomness only happens once, only happens in one location to protect against a constant, and so on and so forth. With this knowledge we find that Randomness Is Unpredictability.

But another quetsion must be asked can organization come from randomness, that fact is yes. Randomness does give rise to Probability Factors, but in way does that mean Randomness is a Pattern. For instance science proves that random changes happened to give rise to evolution, it was all random, but now as we humans are discovering more we begin to search for patterns to make sense of things, because randomness is not what we like, because we cannot track random. Its somewhere in our mind to search for patterns and to see patterns.

Also in mathematics:


A random number is a number chosen as if by chance from some specified distribution such that selection of a large set of these numbers reproduces the underlying distribution. Almost always, such numbers are also required to be independent, so that there are no correlations between successive numbers. Computer-generated random numbers are sometimes called pseudorandom numbers, while the term "random" is reserved for the output of unpredictable physical processes.
Random Number.

Random fills the world.

But if the universe and ourselves came from randomness, how can one then say with any correct probability that life is on other planets, since the theory of randomness is singular?

For more in depth look come and view:Great Debate! TheMythLives vs. jkrog08

Mind you Krog and I are really good friends, but we were able to have a relevant and peaceful debate. He stated things I had no ansers for and I stated things he couldn't answer. The truth is, not one of us knows for a FACT that their is or is not life out their. We can only state our theories



posted on Sep, 6 2009 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by Soylent Green Is People
 


ah good


right...

here how it works

god/creation /universe/life

now life was and is a component of the universe or life would not be here, from this we can understand aliens are 1 needed 2 very real.

coming to earth? why not? if there are NO aliens that then removes it from possibility of them coming here, also factoring in the age of the universe, would mean getting to earth would be like going to wallmart.

=]



posted on Sep, 6 2009 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by TheMythLives
 


TheMythLives --

Respectfully, your post only deals with life existing on other planets in the universe...That's a different issue than trying to prove that intelligent aliens are visiting Earth.



posted on Sep, 6 2009 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by symmetricAvenger

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
What in the world are you getting on about?


you know what im on about as you made it clear in you reply correct?

god or aliens

don't beat around the bush.. if you are clueless then admit you are..you see logic is a great tool to use when it comes to people...



I mean you no disrespect but at the moment I am one of the clueless because I do not know what it is you are trying to say. I use logic all the time as does every other human being I have ever met. Some use it with more proficiency than others but everyone uses it because logic and the ability to use it is part of what makes us a part of the human race.


Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
what way is up? you live on a sphere ? and people have NO word to tell me were they came from BE FOR they was born? was it gods soul factory?

the only words i hear are heaven and hell? kinda stupid, more so if you do math


Actually and I am sorry to be pedantic but the Earth is not a sphere it is an ellipsoid due to the rotation of the Earth, causing a slight bulge toward the equator.

That aside people have been questioning the origins of humanity and where they come from, probably from the moment our ancestors achieved self awareness strong enough to allow us to look deeper into the whys and whats of the world that surrounded us at the time.

The fine tuning of this ability is the thing that has brought us to where we are now, in perpetual war and yet also aching for eternal peace. I choose the later but it is a sad fact that those with the power and the will, seem to yearn for more, thus power-money subverts good intentions and the truth is withheld, good intentions distracted as policies change. We wage war and destroy our environment for reasons that are spouted all the time right across the media spectrum, but we are lied to as the reasons for this eternal war change all the time to suite our leaders cynical agendas.


Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
correct? or am i drunk or is it your human race has been sat here for 2000 years and will keep waiting for god to come save you self centered little ass while you bitch and whine about you planet,, when the fact is YOU made it this way NOT GOD...

so what does this have too do with aliens?

your life is a lie...and thee sad part you like it this way


The human race has been sitting here for a whole lot longer than two thousand years. Also it is not fair to generalise a whole forum base as being self centered, whiny or anything else because firstly a generalisation is nearly always wrong and secondly your argument becomes less valid to those you point at and insult.

I know my life is a lie but you are utterly wrong, and I cannot stress this strongly enough when I say "I do NOT like it this way". If I did I would not be here in this great but sometimes frightening place looking for answers to my own personal questions.

I for one am not waiting for any god to save me and yet I agree that humanity made the planet the way it is rather than a god. I agree with you on that point only because I do not behold to religion in any form, thus for me there is no god and I am very happy with that. If you believe in a god then more power to you but please do not feel sorry for me or steer this debate into something irrelevant (to me) about god. I am very satisfied with being godless.

You ask what has this to do with aliens. Perhaps I should be asking you because as of yet you are talking a lot but respectfully you seem to be saying very little.

I would ask that you get to the point if you would.



posted on Sep, 6 2009 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by Soylent Green Is People
 


Well, respectfully, you need intelligent life to exist on other planets before they can arrive here. See what I mean? Technically, they go hand in hand. I think? If I am wrong let me know, but that makes sense right?



posted on Sep, 6 2009 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by TheMythLives
 


random come from chaos.. you should know

your mind has no shape yet it sits inside a symmetric shape called a body

nothing is random..every thing is in order, its just what level one wishes to see it

like dice
even number of dice can make a random out come, but you need the dice correct?


a lot smarter than i type



posted on Sep, 6 2009 @ 10:38 AM
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reply to post by symmetricAvenger
 


No, your thinking about the chaos theory. Which has been morphed with the Randomness theory and I so mad that quite a few scientist have done that, because its not the same thing! O well, Randomness exists and it is not the same chaos theory... I still rest on my above post.



posted on Sep, 6 2009 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by SmokeJaguar67
 


it is ok to be clueless

this is only about logic not to pick on anyone, just to point out flaws people use when it comes to alien.. if skeptics can do it based on evidence i will do it based on logic.

seems fair =]



posted on Sep, 6 2009 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by TheMythLives
 


Well then, perhaps I misunderstood your post.

My point is that there very well be intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, but that in itself is not evidence that the Earth is being visited by ETs.



posted on Sep, 6 2009 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by Soylent Green Is People
 


exactley
I'm open to them existing, but i just do not see the possibility. Not sure why, I just never believed in aliens...



posted on Sep, 6 2009 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by DoomsdayRex
 


no im asking you what one do you think?

a man walks on water, and aliens can fly here?

and ? well what part am i missing considering most if not all laws are based on this event hmm?



posted on Sep, 6 2009 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by TheMythLives
 


what do you see as alien? something not of this planet?

or a life form created just like you "this is were god comes into play"

you see the logic yet?

you cant have it both ways sorry



posted on Sep, 6 2009 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
reply to post by TheMythLives
 


what do you see as alien? something not of this planet?

or a life form created just like you "this is were god comes into play"

you see the logic yet?

you cant have it both ways sorry


I'm sorry -- but I still don't see what belief in the existence of God has to do with evidence that we are being visited by aliens.



posted on Sep, 6 2009 @ 11:32 AM
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The amount of sightings around the world in modern years shows us there are exotic craft being flown.From the accounts of people who have been abducted and others who have seen alien beings walking on our planet we can conclude that there may be a very good chance that aliens fly these craft.

All of these people who claim to have been abducted or have seen aliens close up can not be liars or attention seekers.There has to be a percentage no matter how small that is the real deal

Of course the sceptics kindly wrap up all abduction and alien sighting as false,coming from mentaly unstable people or attention seekers clearly looking to line their pockets in the lies that spill off their tounges like honey from a spoon.Surely logic dicates that not all of them are liars!

It must boil down to religion or science,both are shackles that can tie people down into their own version of reality.I am not saying that all religious people believe that we are alone under the watchfull eye of god looking down on us from above,or that all science minded individuals think they know everything-but from reading threads on ATS there clearly are a fair few here whos chains are still tight and some of the star gazers here with thier scopes are even worse!



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