The secret that will destroy us all, page 3

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reply posted on 5-9-2009 @ 08:55 PM by harpsounds

Originally posted by SpacePunk
I'll keep using cfl's. The mercury emissions that cfl use saves exceeds the amount of mercury vapor in cfls. The whole thing has reached a level of paranoia that is ridiculous. We've been using fluorescent bulbs since the 1930's, and all of a sudden mercury in the becomes an issue? C'mon!

I think it is different. Most people in the past only used fluorescent in their kitchen, or in industry. Now they are being rolled out in every light fixture in the house. My energy company sent me out enough to refit my whole house for free.

As in my post above, I do agree with you there is a lot of paranoia about the general risk to householders, but with this many bulbs being rolled out, and no instructions on the packaging on how they should be disposed of correctly, I do think there is a legitimate worry here, even if it's been overblown by some.

reply posted on 5-9-2009 @ 09:07 PM by dean007

led lights are not as great as they claim either they dont last anywere close the 10 or 15 years they claim maybe 3 or 4 years and there price is crazy

led lights are good for the environment but they cost as much as 60 x a regular bulb

reply posted on 5-9-2009 @ 09:10 PM by nrky

Unfortunately, for those of us living in Australia, it's now illegal for vendors to provide old-school incandescant lightbulbs; we are being FORCED to have these CFL's in our houses.

In 200 years when we've moved on from this electricity/fuel-driven world, our ancestors will look back at all the madness and blame it on the mercury-filled lightbulbs.

reply posted on 5-9-2009 @ 09:12 PM by thomas_

Those lights are nothing really new and you shouldn't worry about them since those are already being replaced by LED lights which consume even less power and last 10x more.

So this whole thing is just something for those who have nothing good to worry about.

Besides cold lights like those look awful anywhere except in kitchens and offices.

If you worry about mercury you should worry about vaccines that are being deployed right now that do contain that heavy metal in them instead of bulbs

reply posted on 5-9-2009 @ 09:13 PM by john124

www.greenbang.com...

To encourage adoption of more efficient lamps, Defra also offered its Top 10 Light Bulb Myths:

1. They’re too expensive. Energy-efficient compact fluorescent lamps (CFLs) have come down in price and will continue to do so. Some new CFLs are available at similar prices to old-fashioned bulbs (50p in some shops). Energy-efficient lamps save money, up to £3 – 6 per lamp per year according to the Energy Saving Trust, and so the payback can be seen in months. They also last longer so you don’t need to buy them as often. Halogen “look-alike” bulbs are now available to fit in standard sockets, though these lamps do not last as long as CFLs and only offer a 25 – 40 per cent savings compared to traditional bulbs.
2. They don’t fit all fittings. Yes, they do. Lamps are now much smaller than previous CFLs, and come in very similar sizes and shapes to incandescent lamps. They come in all bayonet and screw fittings now. Where fittings are really small, halogen “look-alike” lamps are available, although these do not offer the same energy savings. Dimmable versions are also available.
3. They don’t last as long as advertised. CFLs should last longer than incandescent lamps, though toward the end of life they fade over time rather than blow. Under EU legislation there will be a minimum guaranteed lifetime.
4. They take ages to warm up and give off dull light. Many lamps come on instantly and no lamp should come on later than a second or two after flicking the switch. The light now is flicker-free; although CFL bulbs used to operate at mains frequency (50Hz) they are now designed to operate at 1,000 times that frequency. The light is bright and clear, and a test conducted by the Energy Saving Trust suggests the majority of people cannot tell the difference between the light of a new CFL and an incandescent bulb.
5. They won’t save money. CFL low-energy bulbs save 80 per cent more energy compared to an old-fashioned bulb. According to the Energy Saving Trust, this can cut £3 – 6 per lamp off your energy bills.
6. I can’t recycle them. All local councils provide recycling facilities for CFLs and some retailers will take them back. Councils are looking at what they can do to make it easier to recycle these bulbs. With all new products, the end-of-life recycling can take a while to become widespread, but this is happening now and being taken very seriously by local and national government.
7. New types of bulbs raise health concerns. EU health experts have concluded there is not enough evidence to suggest modern lamps can aggravate epilepsy or migraines, but Defra and DoH have worked closely with groups representing those with specific sight- and light-sensitive skin conditions to minimise any adverse effects from the use of CFLs.
8. They contain mercury. The evidence shows that the amount of mercury in lamps is less than the mercury that would be otherwise released into the atmosphere by coal-fire power generation to produce the energy used by an incandescent lamp. The mercury cannot escape from an intact lamp and, even if the lamp should be broken, the very small amount of mercury contained in a single, modern CFL is most unlikely to cause any harm. Safe disposal tips for a smashed bulb can be found online.
9. Getting rid of old-fashioned light bulbs limits my choice. CFL bulbs are not the only ones on the markets. Halogen bulbs that fit into standard lighting sockets will remain on sale too, although these lamps don’t save as much energy as CFLs.
10. The phaseout will require me to change all my light bulbs. No one will be forced to change light bulbs or fittings, and retailers will be able to keep selling existing stocks. The EU measure, under the Eco-design for Energy-using Products Framework Directive, restricts the manufacture and import into the EU of 100-watt and frosted incandescent lamps from 1 September, with a phaseout of lamps of lower wattage by 2012.

reply posted on 5-9-2009 @ 09:13 PM by piddles

this is sick.

my gf's older brother had mercury poisoning when he (as in, his mother) was forced to take a vaccination at 1 yrs old. they realized he was autistic at age 5, when it was too late to prove it and sue the hospital.

the fact that I could have that over my head is absolutely terrifying.

reply posted on 5-9-2009 @ 09:13 PM by john124

7. New types of bulbs raise health concerns. EU health experts have concluded there is not enough evidence to suggest modern lamps can aggravate epilepsy or migraines, but Defra and DoH have worked closely with groups representing those with specific sight- and light-sensitive skin conditions to minimise any adverse effects from the use of CFLs.

8. They contain mercury. The evidence shows that the amount of mercury in lamps is less than the mercury that would be otherwise released into the atmosphere by coal-fire power generation to produce the energy used by an incandescent lamp. The mercury cannot escape from an intact lamp and, even if the lamp should be broken, the very small amount of mercury contained in a single, modern CFL is most unlikely to cause any harm. Safe disposal tips for a smashed bulb can be found online.

It's around 5 bulbs that need to be broken for amounts of mercury that can harm you whilst in a confined area. Although official government instructions are to clear up wearing gloves and vacate the room for 15 mins for just one bulb.

Also amusing that you are poisoned by power stations in the air you breath more than the mercury in these light-bulbs.

Old 100W bulbs should be banned so the newer more energy efficient bulbs can become cheaper as more people buy them, and so the even better LED bulbs will eventually become cost effective to buy!

And the energy efficient light bulbs are available at the same brightness at the old 100W bulbs, for around £3-£4, and last 12 years compared to 1 year for the old ones. The newer types for the 60W and 100W energy efficient versions are identical in terms of brightness and colour, as the older fluorescent types.

Be aware though that the older types of energy efficient bulbs can have dangerous levels of mercury in them! But I would hope nobody sells these anymore, but they may still be in use.

[edit on 5-9-2009 by john124]

reply posted on 5-9-2009 @ 09:22 PM by bluemooone2

reply to post by piddles

hmmmm , Any mercurys bad tho. it does not take much to affect health.

[edit on 5-9-2009 by bluemooone2]

reply posted on 5-9-2009 @ 09:23 PM by crw2006

Great post and reminder.
After reading, I remembered that USA will phase out the Incandescent bulb in 2012. According to this article EU has already done it.
blogs.abcnews.com...

Also for those interested in fun facts, check out the worlds longest burning light bulb, still lit after 109 years!!!!

reply posted on 5-9-2009 @ 09:24 PM by crw2006

Sorry, link for worlds longest burning light bulb
www.centennialbulb.org...

reply posted on 5-9-2009 @ 09:36 PM by PenandSword

You should not only be worried about the mercury in your bulbs, but also in your vaccinations. Mercury is highly toxic and goes straight for the brain and inhibits/blocks the blood brain barrier, which obviously then robs brain cells of oxygen.

Also, as people have noted, it is in fillings in dentistry. Research the effects. It is downright scary. It is all done with a purpose though, as we know...to the thin the herd (thank you illuminati, and I say that with tongue in cheek, just so you know.)

But there is help.....research chelation. Chelation will detox you from heavy metals that are in your body (from fillings, chemtrails, foods, vaccines.) You need to becareful with this though, as there are some metals and minerals your body needs, so you will need to replace them as you are chelating.

People, the human body is an amazing thing! God created a temple when he made us. The body is a temple...how often do we hear that? A lot! Treat it as such.

reply posted on 5-9-2009 @ 09:43 PM by sdcigarpig

I remember when these first came out, hearing about an incident. The person, I believe was a woman, bought these, as she was being environmentally conscious and changed the old light bulbs out for the new ones. In the process, she broke one of them. She was not sure how to clean it up and called for assistance. From what I had heard, what should have been a simple clean up, quickly changed to be a nightmare. The officials came in, had her removed from her home, had to not only remove the carpet, but also the floor due to mercury contamination, and the cost esclated very quickly, so a light buld that ran under 5 dollars ended up costing this woman close to 20,000 in clean up for toxic contamination. After I heard that, I banned those from my house, will not use them as they are not environmentally friendly or safe to be anywhere there are people, or animals.

reply posted on 5-9-2009 @ 09:45 PM by bluemooone2

reply to post by crw2006

LOL heheh thanks for that) mr Edison did it up right that time hehehe

reply posted on 5-9-2009 @ 09:50 PM by DocHoliday

Hey everybody, long time listener, first time caller. I'm more interested in the UFO information like most people here, but I thought I'd make my entrance with this topic. I have some experience in environmental remediation, and most of our big projects were centered around landfill cleanup and abatement. You would be surprised and the heavy metals, chemicals and carcinogens we find in landfills. It's usually things like lead, nickel, copper, and cadmium, arsenic, cyanide, uranium, and usually low to average amounts of mercury. The most common hazardous thing we tend to run into is large amounts of old paint. Don't throw away paint! And don't worry, the people working to cleanup our old waste always wear PPE. The fact is every landfill will have mercury regardless of the light bulb you use. A good resource to see just how much mercury is in your home has been linked below.

www.nwf.org...

Also for the next section, the basics of landfills:
www.ejnet.org...

The sanitary landfill system, especially the cleanup aspect, is complicated so I'll address the real issue with these contaminates; leachate, the waste water produced by the chemicals and fluids dumped in a landfill. State funded landfills are generally built on a solid bedrock foundation with some sort of liner. HDPE is the heavy weight contender in the liner division. The bedrock integrity is important in the control of the leachate as a crack or weakness can lead to groundwater contamination below the fill, which is difficult to spot and treat. To counter buildup the bottom of the landfill is sloped, ending in a drainage pipe to collected the leachate. This wastewater is then run through a bioreactor usually containing fungi or bacteria with resistances to the contaminants identified for removal. They retain the contaminant for removal, effectively reducing the contamination. The water is then run through a waste water treatement facility for further purification. Pseudomonas has a 85-97% mercury retention rate, depending on bioreactor conditions.

These things do impact the environment, like nearly everything else you throw away, but a CFL is honestly on the small end of the scale. I can tell you that, at least in this country, our government is turning out more money each year to resolve many contaminated sites (just check out FBO). Also, 5mg an outdated figure among leading manufacturers. Philips released a series of Extreme Low Mercury CLF's earlier this year, with the lowest content at 1.4mg and the highest at 2mg.

www.lighting.philips.com...〈=en

Even Walmart is pushing for lower Mercury content.

www.prnewswire.com.../www/story/05-10-2007/0004585479&EDATE=

The fact is, the move to green alternatives isn't easy, and it's all about little steps towards to right solution. LEDs are definitely a great alternative, when the technology catches up to the demand. But for now, this is a great alternative to incandescent. Home Depot is just one retailer offering recycling, both in the US and Canada.

www6.homedepot.com...

On a final note, I get it. The idea of a hazmat cleanup is not something you want to deal with in your home. Truth be told it's an important skill to learn. You never know when the need for containing a hazardous substance will be presented.

Great site everyone!

[edit on 5-9-2009 by DocHoliday]

[edit on 5-9-2009 by DocHoliday]

reply posted on 5-9-2009 @ 10:04 PM by mblahnikluver

What! I never knew that... I dont use them because they are too expensive for my budget and I like the other ones better : ) I have to tell my sister because she uses these all over the house. She will probably think I am nuts but she has a child and he doesnt need to be around that either.

I was watching I believe "Mystery Diagnosis" and there was an episode of a lady who was constantly sick and it turned out to be from mercury poisoning that was in her house from the previous owners....It was from the carpet..
How in the world are they allowed to sell these damn things very well knowing this dangerous substance is in them?! I swear they are trying to kill us slowly and painfully in undisclosed ways! GRRRRR!

S&F!

reply posted on 5-9-2009 @ 10:04 PM by Gamma MO

From the London Times:

'Green' lightbulbs poison workers

Hundreds of factory staff are being made ill by mercury used in bulbs destined for the West

Doctors, regulators, lawyers and courts in China - which supplies two thirds of the compact fluorescent bulbs sold in Britain - are increasingly alert to the potential impacts on public health of an industry that promotes itself as a friend of the earth but depends on highly toxic mercury.

Making the bulbs requires workers to handle mercury in either solid or liquid form because a small amount of the metal is put into each bulb to start the chemical reaction that creates light…

A survey of published specialist literature and reports by state media shows hundreds of workers at Chinese-owned factories have been poisoned by mercury over the past decade.

In one case, Foshan city officials intervened to order medical tests on workers at the Nanhai Feiyang lighting factory after receiving a petition alleging dangerous conditions, according to a report in the Nanfang Daily newspaper. The tests found 68 out of 72 workers were so badly poisoned they required hospitalisation.

A specialist medical journal, published by the health ministry, describes another compact fluorescent lightbulb factory in Jinzhou, in central China, where 121 out of 123 employees had excessive mercury levels. One man’s level was 150 times the accepted standard.

The same journal identified a compact fluorescent lightbulb factory in Anyang, eastern China, where 35% of workers suffered mercury poisoning, and industrial discharge containing the toxin went straight into the water supply.

reply posted on 5-9-2009 @ 10:08 PM by Gamma MO

www2.macleans.ca...

Are the new light bulbs a health risk?

Study to examine if what’s good for the environment is bad for people

Health Canada is reviewing the safety of energy-saving light bulbs to determine whether the amount of UV light and electromagnetic radiation they emit is safe. The federal government launched its study on compact fluorescent lights in December, following several public health warnings by British medical professionals.

British health officials have warned that the new bulbs could worsen existing skin conditions, like eczema and dermatitis. Skin disorders that are photosensitive could react to the more intense light of fluorescent bulbs, which emit UV rays similar to outdoor exposure levels on a sunny day. Britain’s Health Protection Agency now recommends that people should not be closer than 30 centimetres from the energy-saving variety for more than one hour per day.

Health Canada says the reason for the study was the increased use of the energy-saving bulbs. Any relation to the public health warnings in Britain is purely coincidental, says Roberta Bradley, Health Canada’s director of consumer and clinical radiation. The final results will be released in the summer 2009 or early fall.

There are also concerns that the low-energy bulbs could be linked to headaches, nausea and seizures in people with epilepsy. The British charity Epilepsy Action says that some people with the condition have complained of dizziness, loss of focus and discomfort after being exposed to light from the energy-saving bulbs. The cause of the problem is not known as the bulbs do not flicker at the rate that would normally cause ill effects. “We have received calls from a number of people who believe they are feeling unwell, in terms of headaches, nausea, seizures,” says Keeley Eastwood, spokesperson for Epilepsy Action, in an interview with Maclean’s. “But epilepsy has so many triggers and causes—it’s really hard to pinpoint what causes it.”

The British government is set to ban incandescent lights. The traditional bulbs will be phased out by 2011, one year before similar legislation comes into effect in Canada. However, a number of interest groups are calling for exemption from the new laws. The British Association of Dermatologists says persons with light sensitive conditions must be able to continue using the traditional bulbs, even after the nation-wide ban. Epilepsy groups may also demand exemptions depending on the results of on-going research on fluorescents, says Eastwood.

The Canadian Dermatology Association (CDA) is waiting to find out the results of the Health Canada study before taking any action. If people need to keep a certain distance from the low energy bulbs, that will affect how they should be used at work and home, says Michelle Albagli, executive director of the CDA, in an interview with Maclean’s. “The CDA is watching with great interest. We would like to know if these light bulbs could be dangerous.”

reply posted on 5-9-2009 @ 10:09 PM by john124

news.bbc.co.uk...

Toxic substance

Environmental scientist Dr David Spurgeon said: "Because these light bulbs contain small amounts of mercury they could cause a problem if they are disposed of in a normal waste-bin.

"It is possible that the mercury they contain could be released either into the air or from land-fill when they are released into the wider environment.

"That's a concern, because mercury is a well known toxic substance."

Official advice from the Department of the Environment states that if a low-energy bulb is smashed, the room needs to be vacated for at least 15 minutes.

A vacuum cleaner should not be used to clear up the debris, and care should be taken not to inhale the dust.

Instead, rubber gloves should be used, and the broken bulb put into a sealed plastic bag - which should be taken to the local council for disposal.

Unbroken used bulbs can be taken back to the retailer if the owner is a member of the Distributor Takeback Scheme.

Otherwise, many local waste disposal sites now have the facilities to safely collect and dispose of old bulbs.

However, this advice is not printed on the packaging that low-energy bulbs are sold in.

Toxicologist Dr David Ray, from the University of Nottingham, said about 6-8mg of mercury was present in a typical low-energy bulb, which he described as a "pretty small amount". "Mercury accumulates in the body - especially the brain," he said.

"The biggest danger is repeated exposure - a one off exposure is not as potentially dangerous compared to working in a light bulb factory. "If you smash one bulb then that is not too much of a hazard. However, if you broke five bulbs in a small unventilated room then you might be in short term danger."

Information campaign

Adrian Harding of the Environment Agency said: "More information does need to be made available by retailers, local authorities and the government to alert people to the best way of dealing with these products when they become waste."

Louise Molloy from the environmental group Greenpeace said that a public information campaign was needed in order to advise people how to dispose of low-energy bulbs safely.

But she added: "Rather than being worried about the mercury these light bulbs contain, the general public should be reassured that using them will actually reduce the amount of mercury overall in our atmosphere." The lighting industry and the government say the risk of mercury pollution posed by low-energy bulbs is minimal.

Kevin Verdun of the Lighting Association said: "Fluorescent strips, like the ones used in garages and kitchens, also contain mercury and have been used for many years without poisoning anyone."

But he said that warnings on how to safely dispose of smashed bulbs "might" be put on packaging in future, if the government and the public demanded it.

This month shops in the UK will begin the process of phasing out traditional tungsten bulbs as part of a government plan to completely replace them by 2011.

Ministers hope that using the more environmentally-friendly bulbs will save at least save 5m tonnes-worth of carbon dioxide emissions every year.