Absolute, Irrefutable Evidence of a Creator, page 7

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reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 11:12 AM by plipu

and i never said science was bs i just was pointing out the similarity between religion and science and why BOTH sides can say each other wrong when theres nothing to be wrong or right about because there's no evidence.

reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 11:23 AM by A Fortiori

reply to post by GenLo

Okay, then if you are not saying that the universe came from "nothing" then what happened? Please, I am all ears. Explain it to me.

As you are a subject matter expert, here are my questions:

1) Why did the Big Bang Happen?
2) What existed before it?
3) What caused it?
4) What was the nature of what came before it?
5) How can we duplicate it?

Please understand that I was responding to snark regarding the intelligence of those who believe that something (and I use this term loosely to describe what can be thought of as G-D) sentient was responsible for the universe. Atheists on these boards act as though their logic is somehow superior to mine. There is an unfounded level of disdain aimed at people who see the patterns and apply to it a level of sentience and order.

And before you once more criticize my intelligence or that of those who see something "patternistic" and hypothesize differently, understand that I am not some backwater nincompoop who plugs their ears and covers their eyes when forced to view something unpleasant. I didn't throw out my high school textbooks because they talked of evolution. I graduated at the top of my class in high school, went on to an Ivy League education on scholarship, and even spent four years in research. Please, do not tell me what my argument is. Allow me to speak for myself.

It is not a stretch to say that atheists believe that "nothing" created "something", although my word choice of "create" could have been better.

Correct me if I'm wrong:

1) You do not believe that something sentient was involved in the origins of the multiverse, ergo you believe that "nothing" lit the fuse, so to speak. (Y/N)

2) It is a random sequence of events that mysteriously landed in a path of accidental logic and progression, and lucky us, there is a non-sentient guiding force called "life" that, for a lack of a better word, struggles to continue existence. (Y/N)

3)However, that "life" does not really have a motivation, per say, as that implies something creative and mystical, but just continues to perpetuate upon itself according to quantum physics, math, M-theory, and other "logical", "scientific" theorems that in no way, shape, or form should be mistaken for "intelligence" although it does appear that it might because of the logical approach versus random "luck". (Y/N)

I am asking if I have the atheist, yours in particular, view correct, because now I want to know why that is superior to believing that something sentient (do not mistake "sentient" for anthropomorphic entity with a name) is responsible. I am careful not to define what that sentient is aside from that it is logical and purposeful.

reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 11:28 AM by A Fortiori

reply to post by THELONIO

No offense (I'm certainly trying not to be offended) but how do you know what I believe other than I choose to follow the life lessons as presented in the Gospels as a model for how to live my life.

Nonviolence, loving my enemies
Social service, caring for the poor and sick
Non-judgment, non-condemnation

It is not the fault of myself and others like me that some self-labeled Christians chose to disregard all of the teachings of Jesus. To slag me or my faith off because of the actions of other people I have no control over isn't very kind.

reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 11:34 AM by A Fortiori

reply to post by GenLo

OR... dare I say it... could even be a planet where your god COMES FROM!?! OMG!!!!! INFINITE SPACE! INFINITE POSSIBILITIES! BUT BEFORE YOU GET AHEAD OF YOURSELF I would invest into the possibility of finding the noodley hands of Spaghetti Monsters long before anyone finds evidence of something invisible. Just saying...

Well, break out the spaghetti monsters then.

INVISIBILITY devices, long the realm of science fiction and fantasy, have moved closer after scientists engineered a material that can bend visible light around objects...

Underlying the work is the idea that bending visible light around an object will hide it.

Xiang Zhang, the leader of the researchers, said: “In the case of invisibility cloaks or shields, the material would need to curve light waves completely around the object like a river flowing around a rock.” An observer looking at the cloaked object would then see light from behind it – making it seem to disappear.

Substances capable of achieving such feats are known as “meta-materials” and have the power to “grab” electromagnetic radiation and deflect it smoothly.

How long are the spaghetti monster's arms, anyway?

reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 12:03 PM by Misfit

Just my curiosity here .............

Why do you, parties of each side, continue to debate something of which NEITHER of the opposing sides will EVER concede to the other nor even somewhat agree? Is it really worth all the energy expelled to rant on and on and on and on about what one believes right and the other wrong?

I realize this is a discussion forum, but profitable discussion is not about endless "it's this way not that way" circles.

What's wrong with just believing what one believes, and that the other believes what they believe? Why the incessant and apparent need to make the other side believe differently than what they have for most if not all of their lives?

Ford rocks Chevy sucks now at seven pages.

reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 12:34 PM by spy66

I believe in God. And i believe God did everything.

Here are some reasons why i do so. The first one is really easy to imagine if you have a bright mind

Reason 1.

The first one is the thought of dimensions: Height. Length. Width and Matter/Energy= time.

Now think about what must have come first of Height. Length. Width or matter and energy= Time.

Would space have had to be created first or would the matter and energy have had to come first so that we can have space?

This question is quite logical. But still we think the illogical is the right answer. What is the right and logical answer? SPACE???

Well if you draw up the three dimensions where would you have to place the energy and matter?

Reason 2 is harder for most people to grasp because they dont understand math or what they read.

Nothing can be created from nothing: Why?

Well if you think about nothing 0. And ask your self or others: How far is it from 0 to 1 ?
To know the right answer you would have to know what the right size of decimal number that comes right after 0.
Not even the brightest mathematician could ever give you the right answer. WHY?
Well they would have a decimal problem right? How many decimals are there between 0 and 1 ?

When does 0 start to become something?

The distance from 0 to 1 is infinite big. That means that 0 cant have created anything even by chance or luck.

reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 12:37 PM by A Fortiori

reply to post by Misfit

Because I actually absorb what other people write (even if I disagree) and mull it over, thus exercising my brain.

reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 01:24 PM by THELONIO

reply to post by A Fortiori

why do you need the gospels to tell you how to live your life, its just common sense isn't it?, i apologize if you feel slagged off, it was not my intention.

god is not god, it is a giant caterpillar and our universe is the cocoon in which it sleep for eternity, our planet is a molecule of its silken thread, prove me wrong!!

reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 01:30 PM by THELONIO

reply to post by spy66

the number 0 is a very complicated thing, but where did god come from? further more where did the devil come from?, who was first the universe, god or the devil?, or even the chicken?

reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 02:15 PM by plipu

technically saying god does exist whether you believe or not, its SAID that lucifer was one of gods angels but then tried to overthrow him or question him or somethin like that and then god cast him out of heaven and down to earth...or something. so god created satan, god came first. but the one question no one will ever be able to answer is who made god, why is god there, and why are we here. but thats mostly from a religious view point

reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 02:53 PM by GenLo

reply to post by Misfit

*clears throat*

I agree.

Being a believer of the Buddhist philosophy I can it explain it only as part of feeding the dukkha or suffering. I see something I disagree with and my personal ego becomes inflamed. Directed by my ego I seek to validate what I know to be true.

Therefore I see this topic (and there are many like it) my dukkha and ego grow and without using self restraint I feed into it.

I would very easily agree to disagree if these posts were simply locked up. I mean really this ridiculous type of thread is posted again and again with no side showing as the victor.

I DO think x-tians are IGNORANT and that for some reason I have some role to play in educating them when they make attempts to bash Atheists, and I do enjoy it. I don't want to for it is not the way of someone who is enlightened but to bring yourself to mindset of such peace you really must practice in some place more suitable than the lair of a 22 y.o. trapped on a military base whose main social experience takes place online.

So lets begin a new! Can we? (well probably not) If you can promise not to post here again, so will I and lets try to shut down all the petty squabble because there will be no victor, only dukkha.

I, GenLo will not post in this thread ever again if someone from the opposing spectrum agrees to do the same and encourages such "agree to disagree" terms in other threads.

Remember the NWO is trying to keep us divided so we should be spending our energy on other things.

reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 05:21 PM by A Fortiori

Originally posted by THELONIO
reply to post by A Fortiori

why do you need the gospels to tell you how to live your life, its just common sense isn't it?, i apologize if you feel slagged off, it was not my intention.

I suppose I could have figured out math, too, on my own, but I sure remember my first geometry teacher fondly.

god is not god, it is a giant caterpillar and our universe is the cocoon in which it sleep for eternity, our planet is a molecule of its silken thread, prove me wrong!!

Why would I do that? Maybe G-D is a giant caterpillar. I don't know all that G-D is, but if it can create the universe and sustain it I'm sure it can also be a giant caterpillar if it wants to be.

reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 05:27 PM by moocowman

Originally posted by A Fortiori
reply to post by Misfit

Because I actually absorb what other people write (even if I disagree) and mull it over, thus exercising my brain.

Exercising or exorcising ? You be careful lol

reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 05:37 PM by A Fortiori

reply to post by GenLo

I DO think x-tians are IGNORANT and that for some reason I have some role to play in educating them when they make attempts to bash Atheists, and I do enjoy it. I don't want to for it is not the way of someone who is enlightened but to bring yourself to mindset of such peace you really must practice in some place more suitable than the lair of a 22 y.o. trapped on a military base whose main social experience takes place online.

Thich Nat Hanh, a Buddhist monk also calls himself a Christian. Is, he, too ignorant? He said you cannot be a Buddhist and not a Christian, not a Christian and not a Buddhist. Does Buddhism tell you to generalize about an entire religion not yours? Is that ironic that your issue is with the generalizations made by Christians and you, yourself, are generalizing?

I'm not here bashing atheists, I am affronted with the cruelty that they have displayed towards those who disagree. We're "stupid" for believing something they perceive as antiquated--as though we are somehow better than the ancients who came before us because we can "harness" science. This is hubris. Absolute ego to think we have all the answers now at this moment in time, as though our technology is so vast and complete. The jury is out, and have the decency to respect people who have earnest hearts and a desire to explore all possibilities.

On a side note, what have we done with this intellect? We've build better death machines, bio-weapons, and have figured out how not to just pollute our planet, but our atmosphere, as well. Yes, there are some good inventions but a lot of them were invented on the road to creating weapons.

As for atheists, what have I done to hurt them or minimize them by defending my own beliefs, or to take up for others that have one? Have I called them names? Have I said they were going to Hell? Have I said they were stupid?

Please tell me what exactly I have said or done that is hurtful to an atheist besides question them, and considering the pride in skepticism I would think they welcome the questioning.

I know I do.

reply posted on 6-9-2009 @ 05:41 PM by A Fortiori

Originally posted by moocowman

Originally posted by A Fortiori
reply to post by Misfit

Because I actually absorb what other people write (even if I disagree) and mull it over, thus exercising my brain.

Exercising or exorcising ? You be careful lol

Why moocow!

*bats eyelashes*

You following me around these little old boards? I'm flattered. You know you're my favorite anti-Christian on here.

*blows kiss*

Forgive the lack of "z" I am back and forth with the UK and they have me thoroughly addled.

[edit on 6-9-2009 by A Fortiori]

reply posted on 7-9-2009 @ 12:10 AM by brightlight

reply to post by A Fortiori

Awesome Contribution with some great points. My rationale is that even if I don't know for 100% sure that there is a Creator because he doesn't show himself (only through his messengers who all gave knowledge on the nature of the universe, and presented a warning to mankind that we are finite, where one must feel the sincerity and make the choice to believe in them and their unified message), I absolutely will not take the risk of leading a life without knowing, fearing, and loving my Creator. Being aware that the Lord of the Worlds is watching me in this life, which is a test for all. Seeking knowledge in a creator sincerely brought great enlightenment into my life. I changed in terms of being more aware of the way I behave and treat others. I am more thoughtful, and weigh my decisions in such a way where I am thinking of always trying to the right/positive thing. And if I find myself in a situation where I made a bad decision, I will take refuge in my Lord, God, Allah, Rabb, knowing that He is all Merciful and Compassionate. It is a win win situation because if I am wrong, and there is no Creator, and when I die, that's it light's out and I have no soul which survuves remotely out of my body, then I haven't lost anything in terms of valuable knowledge in order to nurture my eternal soul and prepare myself for the other side and my judgment.

reply posted on 7-9-2009 @ 12:57 AM by brightlight

Originally posted by Copernicus

Originally posted by InTrueFiction

Originally posted by CopernicusSo as a summary, there is no God as a higher being and there is no pure evolution from bacteria to human. We were created by aliens. They are the "gods" talked about in ancient literature. We didnt understand what they were 2000 years ago. But now we do.

That theory however fails to answer the question of the origin of the universe and life. Even if in fact all life on this planet had been created by aliens how do you explain the creation of those aliens?

How do you explain the creation of a God? Who created him? So I dont think the religious theory answers this question either.

Most likely life is pretty common in the universe and different species spread across the universe, using their technology to create new species. It somehow makes sense because that is what we would do if we could.

Origin of the Universe? God created it. Think of it as Top Down Causation which folks in the physics field are beginning to discover. The definition of God is Consciousness that always was, will always be, and will never not be, The Creator is Eternal, Infinite, something the human brain will have difficulty grasping.

In terms of Aliens, yes there is another creation that are living among us, called 'the jinn' which means hidden in Arabic. Call them ghosts, demons, reptilians, annunaki, horus, whatever. They are made of smokeless fire which is most probably electricity. There is a lot of information on these beings from Illuminati defectors, the accounts and symbolism of ancient history and civilizations.

So, whatever beings are out there are from the same single Creator of the Universe

In terms of Alien life creating life, this is not possible. How can you just create life, where does obtaining the soul in this creation come from? Sure it is plausible that one can clone, but in terms of creating a living breathing being from scratch ....

Here is some UFO info in order to become aware of the nature of the conspiracy run by the Molech worshipping elite:

YouTube Link

just part one of 7, it's pretty good in terms of explaing NASA and such

It may be off topic, but sometime to gain insight on something is to consider other important concepts, in this case, Aliens and a Creator. There is a lot of dis information out there, and I stress to people to do their research and try to weed out dis information agents put there for weak hearted people, and just try to feel the sincerity in the nature of this life and Universe.

Peace and blessings unto All.

reply posted on 7-9-2009 @ 02:13 AM by lifecitizen

Originally posted by brightlight
reply to post by A Fortiori

Awesome Contribution with some great points. My rationale is that even if I don't know for 100% sure that there is a Creator because he doesn't show himself (only through his messengers who all gave knowledge on the nature of the universe, and presented a warning to mankind that we are finite, where one must feel the sincerity and make the choice to believe in them and their unified message), I absolutely will not take the risk of leading a life without knowing, fearing, and loving my Creator. Being aware that the Lord of the Worlds is watching me in this life, which is a test for all. Seeking knowledge in a creator sincerely brought great enlightenment into my life. I changed in terms of being more aware of the way I behave and treat others. I am more thoughtful, and weigh my decisions in such a way where I am thinking of always trying to the right/positive thing. And if I find myself in a situation where I made a bad decision, I will take refuge in my Lord, God, Allah, Rabb, knowing that He is all Merciful and Compassionate. It is a win win situation because if I am wrong, and there is no Creator, and when I die, that's it light's out and I have no soul which survuves remotely out of my body, then I haven't lost anything in terms of valuable knowledge in order to nurture my eternal soul and prepare myself for the other side and my judgment.

I think it's pretty sad that some people need a god as their moral compass

Because you are scared of your god you've decided to be more thoughtful-that's nice- it's just a shame you couldn't come to that conclusion off your own bat.

reply posted on 7-9-2009 @ 02:22 AM by moocowman

Originally posted by A Fortiori

Originally posted by moocowman

Originally posted by A Fortiori
reply to post by Misfit

Because I actually absorb what other people write (even if I disagree) and mull it over, thus exercising my brain.

Exercising or exorcising ? You be careful lol

Why moocow!

*bats eyelashes*

You following me around these little old boards? I'm flattered. You know you're my favorite anti-Christian on here.

*blows kiss*

Forgive the lack of "z" I am back and forth with the UK and they have me thoroughly addled.

[edit on 6-9-2009 by A Fortiori]

Lol, I must be a 2 dimensional web stalker, pretend you didn't notice or that would give the game away lol.

I'd be careful who your flashing eyelashes at those xtians could mistake you for one of those homosexuals and throw potatoes at your car lol.

It's really cool to be someones favourite Anti christian perhaps an ATS league table of Atheists and pious would be a good idea lol.

Next time your in the UK take some bloody rain home with you dude, the local church has started collecting animals and wood which scares me lol.

reply posted on 7-9-2009 @ 03:30 AM by spy66

Originally posted by THELONIO
reply to post by spy66

the number 0 is a very complicated thing, but where did god come from? further more where did the devil come from?, who was first the universe, god or the devil?, or even the chicken?

Where did God come from?
I dont really have to tell you that. Because you already know the answer to your own question.

The problem is that you dont trust your own judgment. Problem nr 2. is that you seek the truth from gossip or the words told by other men.

If you want to know about God. Give God some attention. If i wanted to know anything about you. Would you rather i got the truth from you or from the gossip men told about you.

EDIT:

Is it possible that God can coexist with zero=0?

Sure God can. We do. The gap from 0 to 1 is infinite.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]