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AP Photo of Marine Sparks Controversy

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posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 05:15 AM
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Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by deepred
 


Hey, Deep, you are a bleeding heart like me.

It is hard to be like that.


Shhhhh.....you are going to tarnish my tough guy image.




posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 05:15 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Difference is, Slayer, that WW2 was fought in living memory and many of our "leaders" over the past 10-20 years remember that era and the times after quite vividly, so it is a valid point. Whereas, the US civil war and Revolution are well beyond living memory and were no where near as destructive anyway.

Besides, I was merely offering a common view, not one espoused by myself. Common views tend to take the form of generalisations and as always, there will always be many who don't fit the mould.



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 05:28 AM
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Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Difference is, Slayer, that WW2 was fought in living memory and many of our "leaders" over the past 10-20 years remember that era and the times after quite vividly, so it is a valid point. Whereas, the US civil war and Revolution are well beyond living memory and were no where near as destructive anyway.


My point about not trying to take the moral high ground is the fact that Europe has been one of the most violent continents in the past 200 years. Yes it may be in living memory but who caused, fought and died in those wars and for what? How many perished?

Outside of some screw ball conspiracy theories. The US didn't start any of those conflicts. Has the fact that our fathers were in Europe during the war and fought and died there also been forgotten? They were the ones there who became our leaders which are the same age as your leaders are now. In many cases they were more of a witness to the atrocities than many of the Europeans civilians themselves.

[edit on 5-9-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 05:31 AM
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Might I also add which puts it more eloquent than I ever can:
Tool - Vicarious

Not official vid but this one proves the lyrics better
Official Vid

I need to watch things die, from a good safe distance,
Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
Much better you than I



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 05:36 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 

Um hey Slayer... I dont want you turning against Europeans from some stupid argument because I like and respect you a lot... but stumason has a good point a lot of the American soldater I worked with were like that... they have some cotton candy vision of war because you guys have almost always had far superior equipment to your enemies and beat them badly...
And like he said no home front. The civil war & such. were devastating as all war is, but he means external enemy, someone who doesnt give a # about your civilians well being just shelling everything and so on. As soon as you guys get invaded (yikes!) then I doubt any American would have the same view as war.
Precisely why it is always said 'fight there so not here'



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 05:47 AM
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reply to post by Ridhya
 


I appreciate what you had to say.

I disagree.



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 06:40 AM
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reply to post by spellbound
 


In how many of the posts above my previous reply to you did you use the word "shocked"? That was your clue. Run with it.



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 07:23 AM
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The US civil war was no where near as destructive as WWII? You need to go back and do your research. 400K+ Americans were killed in WWII. 600K+ Americans were killed in the US civil war. WWII might have been more destructive FOR YOU but the US civil war was very destructive for us Americans. ALL WAR IS DESTRUCTIVE. Also there's a difference between fighting a war with musket balls, rifles and canons vs. one with grenades, jet fighters, and bombs. If the US civil war would have happened 50 years later it probably would have destroyed a lot more and killed a lot more.

Anyways, Americans and NEED TO SEE JUST HOW graphic, evil, and painful war is. Blur the faces...........do whatever you have to do to keep things anonymous but EVERYONE, EVERY HUMAN BEING on this Earth needs to realize and understand, really really understand just what war is. We are such a lazy nation psychologically. We are so far removed from ALL the suffering that goes on in the name of our lifestyle, our country, and our consumption. Be it the animals that are slaughtered so we can live in gluttony to the human beings that are slaughtered so that we can have oil and politicians and corporations can make money. Corporations that many of us are invested in through our 401ks etc. See in America there is really no justifiable way to disassociate ourselves from the destruction we and many other nations cause. War is no different.

Do you/we REALLY UNDERSTAND what's going on over there? I mean do we? We've seen some of the most graphic war movies put out by Hollywood, of which still don't do justice to the horrors of war. Our kids play pathetic video games based on war and violence yet we as a country are pathetically numb when it comes to pain and suffering. We are so far removed from the "hand that feeds" us, addicted to our comfort zones both emotionally and physically. Young kids getting their heads blown off, their limbs blown to bits, seeing it happen all around them. Witness this death and destruction in children. I mean my god if there is a hell on Earth IT IS WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And all you lackeys saying how we shouldn't blame the troops as if they are some adolescent with no clue as to what the military is all about. Do all these soldiers sign up thinking they are going to be pushing papers all day earning their free ride to college? Gimme a break. I'm not going to sit there and blast and blame individual U.S. soldiers but ignorance, naveity, innocence, whatever are horrible excuses to use in defense of war. I support our troops. I support bringing them back home!!!!!! I making sure their families have everything and anything they need! I support free education for our troops! But I don't support our troops when it comes to fighting worthless wars and the war on terrorism and I sure as hell won't make any excuses for a soldier's willingness to blindly follow orders and do what he's told for a paycheck or because "he didn't know what else to do with his life". That's insulting and pathetic.

[edit on 5-9-2009 by Zosynspiracy]



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 08:53 AM
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Im sorry but the BBC shows more graphic images of the Taliban dead and mutilated, I feel that its all down to propaganda. We are shown hundreds of images of the 'enemy' being destroyed and killed but when its one of our own people cause uproar. I feel for all life taken in such a tragic way but by showing this picture, which is not graphic, brings the point home that war is bad, especially for the allies.

At such a young age it is a tragedy but he did make the decision to go to war. I hope he is in a happier place.

Peace



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 09:02 AM
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I've been in the US Army for 8 years and have been to Iraq twice, about to go back for a third time.

To answer your question, OP -

1) Americans deserve a media that shows the whole story, not the spun-up garbage MSM like Fox, CNN, MSNBC and all the other crap ones like to put out. As Slayer said - that is the face of war. No second chances.

2) My only quarrel with this photo being released by associated press is that the family requested it not be released. They did anyway. Who in the HELL do they think they are? Do you, as an American civilian think you have the RIGHT to see someone's son like that just to satisfy your sick, morbid curiosity about the rigours of war? Go sign up and fight for yourself if you want to see it. That photo is now going to pop up EVERYWHERE from the freaks who want to turn the war against us all - LOOK AT THIS DEAD MARINE.......

3) I think it's high time to end the war.

4) I also think we need to respect the wishes of those family members who have lost people over there.

That's my answer.

:END RANT:



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 09:14 AM
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The photos do NOT show anything at all except a few guys stnding around a vague bundle on the ground...no blood, no guts...so why NOT show what war really is?

The kids signing up to go fight these oil wars for the rich and corrupt NEED to see what awaits them. Kids should know that war is hell and that they too will likley end up like this poor kid; dead for nothing.

They sacrifice for the rich and corrupt and we worry that a photo is too much? Please. Kids should see the results of their decisions....right? they should KNOW that they may well end up in a grave because Cheney and his cabal wanted vast monies and property for their evil goals and personal enrichment.

I say lets show all the bodies...all the wounds...all the gore...and maybe some kids will see the light and say HELL NO to a lying recruiter when he waves a flag and talks about ' terrorists' and all the other lies.

Maybe if America woke up every day to the news showing us disgusting and bloody photo's all day long we would wake up and get rid of the warmongers from our political lives....maybe is enough people were sickened by the gore and blood and screaming they would tell their kids to get a real job and stay the hell away from the services.

NO GOOD can come from covering up the face of war....to do so is to keep the slughter going forever.....as long as rich men get richer from wars, the kids will die.



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 09:23 AM
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The media has done a great job of censoring themselves. I think that's unacceptable. We deserve to know what's happening over there.

People consume so much stylized violence over the course of their lives. Between TV, movies, and video games how many people do you think you've seen get killed in all of those?

I think the AP deserves credit for showing us a brief glimpse of reality when everyone is living in a fantasy world.



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 09:43 AM
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Cui bono?

Who benefits?

The media has their own agenda. The politicians have theirs.

Will this make america safer?

Will this stop the war?

The war will end when it doesn't benefit the pols any longer. They will then pass this on to the media and generate a groundswell that will give the people the impression that they think they caused.

Until then, children like this one and others will die.

-god, I need a drink-



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by MattMulder
 


I have been to Iraq, and I’m in Afghanistan now. You people have no idea what it is like to watch one of your friends dying. It’s bad enough to watch a friend die or suffer, but it is even worst to have to see it on the news or in the news paper the next day. All that makes you do is have to relive it over agene. Plus parents, friends, and loved ones should not have to worry about seeing a pitcher of there son, father, husband, or friend dyeing. It is wrong.



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by usmc0369
 


Typical response from a soldier. War is evil buddy. Family, friends, whoever. War needs to be exposed for the evil that it is nowadays!!!!!!!!!! This is the 21st century not the 1800s.

mindprod.com...

Wrap your mind and your conscience around it if you can!



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by Zosynspiracy
 


Yeah, that is a typical response from a Soldier or in his case, a Marine.

My only quarrel is that the family requested it not be shown. It was anyway. The media sickens me for that reason alone. Not only did they not respect the family's wishes - they'll use the photo for the spin that 90% of America is so ready to eat up with a spoon.

None of you know what it's like. So don't bash him because you can't equate an experience to his.



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 10:53 AM
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There is nothing bad in the pictures. Pretty tame by Vietnam coverage standards. The Govt. does not want pictures because they know it will affect the publics perception of the war in a "negative" way. I say we need lots more pictures taken. Let everyone see what war is all about.



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by usmc0369
reply to post by MattMulder
 


I have been to Iraq, and I’m in Afghanistan now. You people have no idea what it is like to watch one of your friends dying. It’s bad enough to watch a friend die or suffer, but it is even worst to have to see it on the news or in the news paper the next day. All that makes you do is have to relive it over agene. Plus parents, friends, and loved ones should not have to worry about seeing a pitcher of there son, father, husband, or friend dyeing. It is wrong.


I starred your post for your honesty. However their are people back home blindly endorsing the war YOU are fighting in. Willing more troops, more friends, more family into a place they could very well die.

I accept they shouldn't have shown the picture without the families consent, I also think it was the height of insensitivity to name the soldier for the whole world, his family, his friends to see. But people have to see the cause of their actions, including me.

Those who promoted 'The War Against Terrorism' at the time in the name of revenge and those who sat by happily as others made the decision for them. We should all feel guilty for the death of these people, Americans, Europeans, Canadians, Australian's Afghanistani's, Iraqi's everyone.

Did you go into the war with an understanding of the full extent of war? Or where you shocked when you were there?

Because some people have no idea and they need to see this. You have to deal with this situation daily, but people at home don't. Most almost forget about the war as they live their day to day life, only things like this bring it back to the front of their mind. We should all have to go through this, because it is our fault, it is our responsibility. WE DID THIS.

I don't agree with you (us) being over there, but I respect the fact that you felt something needed to be done and you acted.

This is an admirable trait and it has been exploited for generations.

I wish you all the luck in the world. I hope you return home safe and let people know just what war is about.

EMM



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 11:43 AM
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I don't see any objections in publishing the photos. It is the photojournalists job to make split second news judgment decisions, and the instance in question, is no different. They put warning labels on the packs of cigarettes with grotesque imagery, why should it be different with war and conflict? Both are very harmful to one's health, are they not? I don't see the dichotomy. People ought to know what their kids, husbands, wives are doing when going to war and actual see, feel, taste, and experience it. Maybe the next time war is on the agenda, politicians will think twice about making that call. We all know a politician wants to keep his/her's constituents placated and to unleash their furor, as account of going to war, is a no go. They want to get re-elected.

These kind of photos are necessary and appropriate. We are all adults aren't we? People need to know that war is hell and not glamorized like what we read about in novels or see in film. In terms of the soldiers parents, I can feel their despair about the photo, but a journalist doesn't need to ask the parents before publishing a photo. The parents aren't editors are they? It is inherently the journalists call regarding what they publish and what not to. In other words, I don't see the problem with the photo after looking at it, and didn't see anything that would have turned my stomach. All I saw, was an injured soldier with his comrades around trying to save his life.



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by deepred
 


I think the media have a responsibility to show the truth, but never at the expense of the family and friends of those killed.

There will always be people out there who choose to allow the image to be used, just so that their loved one didn't die for absolutely nothing (or oil).

People need to see these things to know exactly what war is.




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