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US becoming like Nazi Germany you say? More like the French Revolution and the Reign of Terror.

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posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 05:37 AM
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America has not experienced too much upheaval yet in its History, so I guess its Americas turn.

I for one will not be moving back home but remain in Europe because its so much more peaceful here. You dont have a political pendulum swinging back and forth, hitting the angry crowds.




posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 05:38 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


I think the psyche of Europe still remembers it's past. America on the other hand is still young so we have a bit to learn.



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by Trams
reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


Very interesting theory. I've never heard anyone relate present day United States of America to 1789 France. I think that it does have familiar issues. But I really don't think that America will have a revolution, or turn into a Fascist dictatorship. Sure it might seem like that to some people, but there is obviously a propaganda war going on in the news and the web.

A star and flag for introducing a great theory that should be noted by many on ATS.


What you need to understand is that America will never be like Germany. We have "quiet" fascism in a form you dont recognize because it has never previously been this way. The elites are making all the decisions and holding all the cards, all while common man argues about weather to vote for sheep 1 or 2.


People are not dumb, its just that we dont recognize what we havent previously experienced.



Originally posted by Skyfloating
America has not experienced too much upheaval yet in its History, so I guess its Americas turn.

I for one will not be moving back home but remain in Europe because its so much more peaceful here. You dont have a political pendulum swinging back and forth, hitting the angry crowds.



Yes, Europe must be very different to the United States in that regard. Im in Sweden and whenever I turn on CNN I think they are acting crazy to be honest... every day there seems to be a new crisis to worry about. But if I turn off CNN and go to other european news channels and media, there is noone screaming about the same crisis. Its interesting.


The only explaination I can think of is that using fear to get people upset works better on americans than on europeans.


[edit on 5-9-2009 by Copernicus]



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 06:05 AM
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Just remember that Oliver Cromwell was 10 times as bad as the man that he replaced. It took Napoleon (a dictator turned emperor) to restore order to France. Sometimes what you get is worse then what you want.

Oliver Cromwell was one of the sickest bastards to live. The slaughter of the Irish Catholics and his brutal rule as "Lord Protector of the Commonwealth of England" make the Nazis look like kindergarten kids. This was so evident that the British people decided that a monarchy wasent so bad afterall.



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 07:22 AM
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You did a very good job putting this all together. I have thought about it many times, and do notice the similarities.

I wonder, though, if these are just the common signs that change is needed.

We are in such a unique situation. It is kind of exciting to watch as sick as that might sound.

Our founding fathers were very specific in how our counry was to be run. They saw first hand what didnt work and what was was needed. I think it would still work if it had been left that way. Unfortunatly they did not consider big corperations. However there is always balance. Those big corperations also made it possible for us to have the telephone, cell phones, computers, and the internet.

How would history have been different if the people in the country were able to know everything that was happening with in a day of the event. How would it have been different if even the working class back then was intellegent? Back then the majority of the working class did not even know how to read. They had to believe what they were told.

The president can not have a beer with out every American knowing about it. On top of that we hear several sides of the story allowing us to form our own educated opinion on the matter. Not just limited to reports in our own country, but all over the world.

This is the age of full disclosure, wanted or not.

Now that everyone is in the know, we are no longer forming cliques based on ethnicity, but on opinions and political views instead.

Top all that off with how much our weapons have changed. We have weapons of mass distruction and weapons of mass controll. We have everyone being allowed to cary a gun or at least own one. Tasers, pepper spray, the list goes on.

Though the signs that change is needed are the same, what can happen next is anyones guess.

[edit on 5-9-2009 by mrsdudara]



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


I couldn't agree more.


Nazi Germany was all about one thing... the sense of the supremacy of the German people.

Feel like you've been taken for a ride by your neighbors? Take their land.

Blame other ethnic peoples for your problems and encourage social hatred of them.

All of this was fomented by the regime at the time. And the people LOVED their government. Even when their government started taking other countries, they still loved it. The night of broken glass did cause a chilling effect, until everyone realized that no one was looking... no one cared... and as long as they weren't coming for you, just the jews gypsies and homosexuals, then be happy.


Yep... I agree... the French revolution where the masses railed against the corrupt and detached aristocracy is much more akin to what we have today. The Tea Parties are an example of this, the town hall protests, etc.


Thanks for your post!



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by Skyfloating
 


I think the psyche of Europe still remembers it's past. America on the other hand is still young so we have a bit to learn.


Very Astute!
Jeremy Rifkin states as much in his "The European Dream" He basically contributes Europe's habit of "talking it out" & "trying to find concensus" to it's rather bloody and violent past. The French revolution being part of that. It is, together with f.i. The Inquisition, a part of their history that they do not really want to reprise....

Polarisation has cost way too many lives and stunted progression for too long in Europe's history. Heck! It is one of the main reasons people left for America...

Maybe it is that unfamiliarity with pure polarisation in politics nowadays that distinguishes the European way of "Doing&fixing things" from the American's 2 opposing parties-system. Sabotaging the other party in politics is not as rife[and it would be totally counter-productive in Europe's political circles] in Europe as it is in America. This is mainly because most countries have multi-party governments(!!!) that have to find the (sometimes boring) middle-way in negotiations.

That multi-party system is the main reason that a lot of Europeans do not exactly comprehend this "democracy&freedom-thing of Americans. How much freedom do You have if there are only 2 choices???



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 11:58 AM
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this is pretty stupid....."oh the goverment is empiristic and the poeple dont like it" DUH!!!!!!!

obviously the nazis never died and of course people will always revolt against them... WAKE UP!!!

"Your Big Picture Looks A Little SMALL"
-LosTNForGottNWayS



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 12:01 PM
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I think it's interesting that the ones chopping off heads were the committee for public safety. I can't help but see the similarities to the new laws being passed that authorize swine flu swat teams to kick in your door - for the public safety.

From what I hear, more people are afraid of the government than they are of the swine flu and I could easily see this as the straw that breaks the camels back. When the government starts forcing the vaccine on peoples children that do not want it, they will definitely react with hostility.



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


While Obama is shaping up to be a nice looking Hitler.. I really don't think that's the path things will go. Too many know too much of how Nazi Germany came to be.. French revolution? Makes sense. Infact, I don't know the history of that. Most probably don't



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 12:13 PM
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Guys, the US is far from any of those institutions.

I haven't heard (on the news) of an American that died to do the inability to find food in a while.

We just need to let the economy collapse and rebound.



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 12:14 PM
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Great Thread UP! Stars and Flags for you!

Actually, its because I've wondered about the parallels myself.

Germany and the French Revolution are similar in many ways.

In both cases there was a demogogue, Napoleon in France and Hitler in Germany.
In both cases, war and economic difficulties were key.
In Germany there was a struggle between the socialist/communists and the Fascist/Capitolists
In France, the social elements were traditionalism and the Age of Enlightenment.

The French Revolution was influenced by the outcome of the American one.
A true French Republic was delayed by a detour through totalinarianism.

The American pattern is the rare one with a revolution followed by long term stable free society.


Germany suffered hyperinflation followed by economic collapsethen a recovering economy under Fascism.
It didn't suffer the prolonged malaise that gutted the economy of France.


The Protestant Reformation that shaped the character of Germany wasn't
a factor in France. Religious Corruption was a bigger contributor in France.

The success of the Counter-Reformation beginning with the St Bartholomew's day massacre, allowed an entrenched Catholic Clergy to maintain corrupt power. The Huguenots who were largely from the middle classes were driven into exile or killed, damaging the health of the economy.
The French Revolution was in the beginning very anti-religious. It introduced a ten day calendar and enthroned a goddess of Reason.

Which model will outline our doom?

The outline seems to be:
Rejection of stabilising ideology and economic structures.
Economic and social malaise
Rising resentment and unrest
Corrupt or inept social institutions and government
Collapse and civil war
Blood bath
Rise of Demogoguery
International conflict
Loss and collapse


Religious corruption is certainly a factor in the USA. People underestimate the degree to which it contributes to political and economic corruption.



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 12:16 PM
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Good thread and an excellent analogy. Maybe we are heading for a revolution.
I just hope they don't intentionally starve people.



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 12:21 PM
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There is an excellent film called "The secret architecture of Washington DC" that actually likens the developing situation to that of the "French revolution" so will it be sheep eating mutton yet again - only time will tell

[edit on 5-9-2009 by WWJFKD]



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 12:23 PM
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I still fail to see the comparison to Hitler, when looking at Obama, or more precise, the government. The French revolution on the other hand..let's see, for the sake of the argument:

1-An all powerful elite/royalty that holds all means of production and capital in their control? check.
1a-An all poweful elite/royalty that has so much money at hand, they build maniacal castle's and ridiculous 52-bedroom houses. Check!
2-An expansionist/imperialist government trying to colonize as many countries as possible? check
3-A disgrutled mass, slowly declining in powerless poverty? check
4-Local blindness on the side of TPTB to said disgruntled masses? check
5-A total ignoring of people's needs & wants by the Elite/royalty? check
6-A fast emptying treasury (that had nothing but i.o.u's in it anyways...)check
check, check and check...

Let's hope no-one lights the fuse to this obvious powderkeg, before ordinary people can take cover and duck.

But, most important. Remember that revolutions mostly create another ruthless Elite, with the ordinary man caught in the middle...again...(just look at Iran for a poignant example).

If The US of A is gonna' have it's "revolution", please let it be one in the "velvet-style" as a some former East European countries have had, without the bloodshed. There is already too much killing&hating going on in the world. We do not want to put the once "land of the free" through all the murders the french revolution had in it's wake.

Pas des guillotines ..merci!


[edit on 9/5/2009 by diakrite]



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by David9176
This is what I think is going to happen:

First...people will be angry with government.

Second....the people will go after the rich.

Going after government is nothing but a symptom. Government is corrupt because of massive amounts of corporate money and special interests.

Eventually...I don't know how long it will take....people will be going after them. You can only keep people poor for so long as they watch the rich continue to get richer.

Ideology can only carry people so far.....survival will take over.


I disagree with your socialist model, I think that this is going to be a reversion to the constitution.

First...all people will be angry with government.

Second....the current Obama/Marxist government has already gone after the rich.

Going after government at the legislative level is the only way to make them slow down the spending. Government is corrupt because of massive taxpayer money spending in order for the legislative bodies to buy votes of the poor and union members. The government's senators and representatives act as supreme rulers and elitists over the people.

The middle and upper classes will overthrow the legislative bodies and return the federal government to a minimum government and let the States run the show as defined by the constitution.

The people who are poor at no fault of their own (elderly, sick, mental issues) will be helped but the lazy poor (and you know who you are) will be left to figure out that they need to do such as get off their lazy ass and work since poverty is the reward you receive for failing to succeed in society.



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by Trams
reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


Very interesting theory. I've never heard anyone relate present day United States of America to 1789 France. I think that it does have familiar issues. But I really don't think that America will have a revolution, or turn into a Fascist dictatorship. Sure it might seem like that to some people, but there is obviously a propaganda war going on in the news and the web.

A star and flag for introducing a great theory that should be noted by many on ATS.


Possibly the most sensible post I've seen on this website, in a very long time.

Star for you.



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by LosTNForGotteNWayS
 


I am unsure if I understand you. Do you think that is what I am saying?



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by die_another_day
 


I tend to disagree and it wasn't so much that the French nobility was intentionally starving people. Louis XVI DID care about the people and was trying to do a good job. He just didn't seem to have the ability or really understand how to cater to the people though. I am also sure there were members of the nobility that cared about the people by no means all of them or even most of them.

Which also largely is my view of Obama. I do believe he does care about the people but is gimped by ineptness, a corrupt and broken system, racism and party bickering.

And for my proof that we could be and most likely are headed for a "Reign of Terror" scenario you need look not much farther than some of the posts in this very thread with comments on "elites" and and corporations. I can definantly see a wish for a purge like the reign of terror building. For another example look at how 9/11 truth people refer to those that disagree with them, it takes only a little more frusteration for the human animal to want to kill. And this is common on multiple fronts.



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 02:27 PM
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What. No new comments? Ah well.
This is a naughty second line that should be whipped.



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