Concluding that 9/11 is a Government Conspiracy is Grotesque

The supposed "proof" behind 9/11 is feeble. Much of it are statements taken out of context after the fact, or comments about affects of the actual plane crashes, that were unprecedented, and ergo, had unprecedented results. But you can ignore all that if you are forming a conspiracy theory.

Or you can look at the FACTS and not THEORY and draw your own conclusion. The government story IS a conspiracy theory so if you can investigate the facts and come up with a non conspiracy based conclusion I would LOVE to hear it.

Originally posted by Pathos
Here is your missing plane for Flight 77:

Pentagon Camera I
(Frame - 1:27) Visible plane nose.

Pentagon Camera II
(Frames - 0:25 to 0:26) Plane skimming the ground.

Its Pentagon surveillance footage.

Like I previously said. Its grotesque to think that people believe this was a conspiracy.

I watched those two video numerous times, even almost frame by frame, and I am therefore really amazed, flabbergasted is a better word for it, about how you can consider those two video’s as serious evidence for a crashing Boeing 757.

However, I must admit, I saw something that could look like some sort of a nose, perhaps the nose of incoming advanced type of missile or more likely a really special adapted small airplane, but definitely, 100% shore not the big nose of a Boeing 757.


[edit on 5/9/09 by spacevisitor]

I think this is one of those conspiracies where: If the (factual) evidence does not fit the narrative (a conspiracy), the government must be hiding the 'truth' (the conspiracy theorists' interpretation). Other words, the evidence 'has' to show there was a conspiracy, so that the conspiracy theorists can say "Yep. There is the truth". You can pile on evidence to the contrary, and the theorists will not believe one single element. According to the theorists, "THERE HAS TO BE A CONSPIRACY!".

I am sorry. There is no conspiracy. We might have negligence on the part of our intelligence community, but there is no conspiracy behind the events of 9/11.

--- Edit ---

Originally posted by spacevisitor
However, I must admit, I saw something that could look like some sort of a nose, perhaps the nose of incoming advanced type of missle or more likely a really speciall adapted small airplane, but definitly, 100% shore not the big nose of a Boeing 757.

See. You already started to change the facts to fit the narrative of a conspiracy. Thanks for proving my point.

[edit on 5-9-2009 by Pathos]

reply to post by Pathos


there was a boat named the USS Liberty. It was a bit of history that was hidden from us for quite a while. I am sure you know about it, and will most likely ignore this information, but it suggests that our government, or alt least people employed by it, can in fact kill innocent Americans to attain a larger goal. Knowing that this is possible, it is possible to at least entertain the idea that some things we were told as truth about 911 may not be right. My personal smoking gun is Shanksville. Nobody can come up with a non-fantasy way of describing where the plane went to. And before you ask, I don't know what happened, thats why I am on the side that is asking questions and not ignoring the issue until 50 years passes.

reply to post by Pathos


Well then you have no grip on reality whatsoever. The OS IS a conspiracy theory. The conspirators have been named and at least one remains at large. It has not gone to trial and remains a theory. I think what you mean to say is that its not a governement sponsored conspiracy.

99% of those who believe there is a conspiracy are Googologists, nothing more. They visit all the conspiracy sites and that's where the bulk of their "expert" opinions come from. They do no independent research on their own.

The very small % that actually have done some research haven't proven a thing. Well, they have proven that apparently questioning less then 50% of eye-witnesses somehow "proves" something, and that it's ok if you don't question them all. Also, a small handful of eye-witnesses that only saw a plane flying in a different direction, are somehow more damning than dozens of eyewitnesses who actually saw the plane flying right at / into the Pentagon.

There has been thousands of hours of actual research done by experts. But clearly, the Googling powers of conspiracy theorists are much more reliable than those silly expert opinions.

Originally posted by Pathos
I find their logic very distasteful. Many of them do not have a single ounce of pride in their nation.

The pride of the nation was founded on the questioning of the institution they are in, to demand transparency and representation, and to demand our government represents us.

Pride in the nation is to stand up and make your voice heard

Pride in the nation is to say things that make people think so we never fall asleep and blindly accept whatever it is positions of temporary authority tell us to accept.

You demonstrate blind patriotism...which is absolutely the opposite of what Pride in the nation is. Review the evidence presented by these horrible people who question the offical word and if it checks out, accept you dont know everything. The logic is based in actual evidence (air samples, testimony of architects and pilots), and your argument is pure raw emotion.

What kind of person are you (beyond the most simplistic type of tool of course)...Dont have to believe them, but to dismiss anyone with opposing views as nutcases and unamerican or whatnot is simply being mentally challenged. white and black hats only in your universe.


incidently, I am on the fence about the 9/11 "facts". I accept for now the offical story but am very interested in hearing a well put together line of evidence showing otherwise..I know plenty of bits and bobs. I find people digging for the real answers to be very pro-american and prideful.

reply to post by Pathos


They didn't just provoke Pearl Harbor, they even ignored statements from Winston Churchill and other government leaders that the Japanese were on their way.

In other words, they welcomed the attacks as a justification to enter the war after numerous failed attempts to convince the people of America.

Originally posted by Pathos

Originally posted by spacevisitor
However, I must admit, I saw something that could look like some sort of a nose, perhaps the nose of incoming advanced type of missle or more likely a really speciall adapted small airplane, but definitly, 100% shore not the big nose of a Boeing 757.

See. You already started to change the facts to fit the narrative of a conspiracy. Thanks for proving my point.

I saw that I made some writing errors there, so I hope you don’t mind that I corrected them.

Now, you said,

You already started to change the facts to fit the narrative of a conspiracy. Thanks for proving my point

Which facts did I change, and which point of you did I proved, you mean that missing Boeing 757 nose point?

Originally posted by Pathos
reply to post by Stylez

 

See the post above yours.

Pathos do your damn homework HERE is the timeline investigation done by your Judicial watch! Now tell me Genius DO YOU!

Have any answeres to the guargantuan questions given in the following reports by Judicial watch. Because they still haven't been answered and they STILL lead the averag individual with an average intelligence to conclude OUR Government was complicit in not only enabling this even to occur but even when things went awry, our government made sure the damages attributal to that complicity would be DESTROYED!

READ EM AND WEAP

AGAIN

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b1071a80010c.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7464ceb2731d.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/219c39fc262d.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bc379f57117b.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a8c08608e783.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8e1ee3b8ea4a.jpg[/atsimg]


Now I am going to ask you to PLEASE stop Insulting OUR INTELLIGENCE

It only makes YOURS look bad

For more of the Judicial watch timeline www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 5-9-2009 by Stylez]

Pathos, perhaps you find this interesting regarding existing proof of other available video camera images as also mentioned by 7redorbs which could be used in order to proof more clearly the incoming Boeing 757, but hey, why do you think they were confiscated as fast as they could and still kept away from us all on black shelf’s so far?

Pentagon Attack Footage
The Suppression of Video Footage of the Pentagon Attack
It is striking that there is neither video footage nor any photographic evidence in the public domain showing a jetliner approaching or crashing into the Pentagon. As of May, 2006, the only video footage of the crash that has been released are clips from two Pentagon security cameras north of the crash site, one the source of 5 frames leaked in 2002.

With the release of the two video clips, the Pentagon claims to have supplied all of the footage it has of the attack. Although the number and positions of security cameras monitoring the Pentagon is not public knowledge, it seems unlikely that only two security cameras captured the attack. Isn't it reasonable to assume that there were dozens, if not hundreds, of security cameras ringing the huge building that is the heart of the United States military establishment?

911research.wtc7.net...

12 Million dollars was spent on "investigating" 9-11. where 2999 people died.

The republicans alone spent 65 million on investigating clintons BJ.



About ground zero.. Everyone knows that you don't immediately start dismantling and shipping away an OPEN CRIME SCENE.

You know how the government "knew" it was Bin laden? A Terrorist's passport exploded out of the plane, through the building and the fireball and landed on the sidewalk and they conveinetly found it.

You can beleive THAT story but you can't believe facts such as steel CANNOT BY THE LAWS OF NATURE MELT FROM KEROSENE?

reply to post by Pathos


Have you ever studied the financial dealings during World War II? The allies (especially the US and UK) supplied Germany with all the necessary materials and supplies to attack the allies.

As long as the banks got a high amount of money from the dealings, it didn't matter if London ended up being bombed and innocent people killed. The Bank of England gained, as did grandpa and great grandpa Bush's bank and so on and so on.

The US government had many of their own people killed in order to justify entering wars.

What are they doing in central Asia? They are having soldiers killed for the purpose of oil. If they are really seeking revenge for 9/11, then why don't they go after those individuals originally blamed for the attacks, such as Bin Laden? Where is he? Why did they bomb Iraq and hang Saddam Hussein? What relationship does Iraq have with 9/11?

Why are the soldiers where they are? What are they trying to achieve? Bring a country to a normal status? Rid the "insurgents"? Go to Africa or other parts of Asia and try to bring their countries to normal, too! There are bad militant groups everywhere in the world, but it seems the Middle East is the most urgent.

If they are so worried about the unstable regimes and want to install democracies worldwide, then why don't they also take care of Myanmar (aka Burma) and all the other dictatorial regimes? Maybe because there's nothing there for them to benefit from?

Of course, Myanmar didn't provoke the US, but the US government won't even admit who caused 9/11. Was it Iraq? Iran? Afghanistan? Pakistan? The best is to blame them all. This way the oil pipeline dream will become a reality.

Think of the Lockerbie bomber's release. The UK government just admitted it had everything to do with the Libyan oil deal. He is accused of downing a plane, and now he's released. So much for being punished for killing people.

What's so new about blood money? Blood oil? Blood diamonds? It's been done for centuries, so why should the governments stop now?

The US government had two atom bombs dropped on Japan in 1945. They kill innocent civilians in the Middle East every day now. So why should US civilians have so much more importance than those civilians abroad. They are all people without any bad intentions who just want to live a normal life.

People died in Taiwan as a result of the typhoon, but the president didn't show much consolation. After all, they are just people he never knew, country people.

Young soldiers are dying every day in fights. Does the government really worry about young soldiers dying in the World Wars, in Vietnam, Iraq and so on and so on? They are used to it. That's the way it works. Let others die for the goals of the governments.

Who cares if they are only 21 years old when they get killed. The only ones who will cry are the families and friends of those killed. Others will just view it as yet another statistic, just like the 9/11 statistics.

Originally posted by mikerussellus
We sat and watched it all day, wanting to blow the hell out of anyone who did this.

Trained well I see.

reply to post by Pathos

I have read through most of "Pathos" statements and have to conclude that, in my opinion, what we have here is a person that has closed his mind completely to the subject of 9-11 or more likely a real live paid for BigGov disinfo agent. Regardless, all the evidence available will not have any effect on his stated opinion.

If the OP wishes to sincerely believe that men who could not pilot a Piper Cub can take control of a highly technical Jumbo Jet, then turn off the on-board control systems and guide that plane hundreds of miles, by hand into a building at 550 miles an hour, at tree-top level after making an impossible areial manuever...well, nothing I could say will make any difference. Hope you enjpy the NWO!

Originally posted by The_Zomar

Originally posted by mikerussellus
We sat and watched it all day, wanting to blow the hell out of anyone who did this.

Trained well I see.

Give the guy a break dude, he said anyone who "DID" this.

I wanted to do the same thing even if it means our own Government. I would only hope the military would be on the side of the people and the truth and not on the side of Bush and his cronies

reply to post by Pathos


You know what I find grotesque?
The fact that no thorough investigation was conducted into what happened.
The fact that evidence from the largest crime scene on Earth was shipped away within days.
Why several very pertinent questions were not answered.
Why there is so much evidence to suggest that this was more than it seemed and yet there are still people out there who deny there is any suspicion.

You, my dear misguided friend, need to Google "Operation Northwoods". Once you've investigated that, then come back onto these boards and consider why so many think a government would do this to their own people.

If you can investigate that and still maintain that nothing about 9/11 makes you even slightly suspicious, congratulations should go to you, because then you have officially become a servile citizen who accepts everything their government says and does without question.

Seriously, do you know that your government has tested chemical weapons and agents on innocent people?
Do you know that your government has had highly dubious involvement in various plots around the world?

These are not "conspiracy theories" they are facts. They are on record, on file, they happened.

And you still can't imagine that the same government wouldn't sacrifice a few thousand people (as it does every day through war) to guarantee economic dominance and access to oil?
Really?

[edit on 5-9-2009 by detachedindividual]

Originally posted by romanmel
reply to post by Pathos

 

I have read through most of "Pathos" statements and have to conclude that, in my opinion, what we have here is a person that has closed his mind completely to the subject of 9-11 or more likely a real live paid for BigGov disinfo agent. Regardless, all the evidence available will not have any effect on his stated opinion.

If the OP wishes to sincerely believe that men who could not pilot a Piper Cub can take control of a highly technical Jumbo Jet, then turn off the on-board control systems and guide that plane hundreds of miles, by hand into a building at 550 miles an hour, at tree-top level after making an impossible areial manuever...well, nothing I could say will make any difference. Hope you enjpy the NWO!

Ya know I kinda doubt it is a dis-info guy because most truthers wipe the floor with those idiots just like they have with this pathos character.

It only server to get truthers to show them up even more and everyone gets yet another opportunity to see the truth has never been given us and we demand answers

[edit on 5-9-2009 by Stylez]

Wait a minute. I just noticed that some of you 'believers' are not from the United States. Your giving us a lecture about how you feel about our country? Whow! Slow down here. What?!?!

Now I am wondering if Americans are being influenced by other nations. Since the French, Netherlands, and other countries says it was a conspiracy, the events of 9/11 were a conspiracy?

Hmmm.... Are other nations injecting their beliefs on American citizens, and are they trying to create a wedge between its people and government (on this issue)?

I think I stumbled onto a new dynamic. It did not dawn on me to check where some of you are coming from. Was it not the French who first speculated on 9/11 being a possible conspiracy?

Huh... Now I understand what had happened. My fellow Americans have to wake up and take notice. Citizens from other nations are trying to create a wedge between you and some of your leaders and citizens.

Not only do I think 9/11 happened without it being a conspiracy, but I am now viewing the internet with a different set of eyes. Some (to possibly several) of you guys are being influenced by foreign citizens from other countries.

The Netherlands and Taiwan? What type of agenda do you guys have?

You guys need to be very-very cautious in what you read online.

[edit on 5-9-2009 by Pathos]

reply to post by Pathos


Dude, you've got to be kidding me. Now the foreigners are trying to indoctrinate Americans into believing 9-11 was a conspiracy? Really?
Now, I have not read every single post in this thread so I don't know if the Larry Silverstein quote has been brought up. Here's the owner of WTC 7 on video saying they made the decision to "PULL" Building 7. How do you explain that?
By the way, I assume you don't really believe some of the things you've written in this thread, or let's say I hope you don't.

[edit on 5-9-2009 by Bullhorn]