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Pastor shot by police, caught on video.

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posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 02:26 AM
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Plain clothes cops jump out of an Cadillac escalade with guns would you stay around to see what they wanted? If they had at least there badge visible yes I would stop.They Should have had a b/w police car nearby to pull the guy over. the cops are trying to cover up the fact they executed a preacher and father to be.He asked in the ambulance who had shot him. He didn't know they were cops. I really wonder about the quality of the police training academies these days




posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 02:26 AM
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sorry dp

[edit on 5-9-2009 by robnar]



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 12:04 PM
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It doesn't matter if they were cops or not. If you are smart, if ANYONE points a gun at you, you should do what the person with the gun wants. As was proven in this case.

If someone is pointing a gun at you and they want you dead you would probably already be dead.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 09:59 AM
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to all of you who think this is justified in anyway you are wrong.the police were not in uniform and they came at him with guns drawn.being bumped by a car is not justifiable murder.thats right these cops are murderes.they killed a pastor doing no wrong.may god have mercy on them because mankind shouldnt.maybe you think differently if it was your pastor/familymember killed.guns dont kill people bad cops do.



posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 01:04 PM
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Greetings. I will provide some insight into this as I am a supervisory Federal Law Enforcement Officer. I will spell out our use of force policy in regards to the use of deadly force. Basically, for us to resort to deadly force, we must be confronted with an offender that meets three requirements involving the POTENTIAL to inflict "death or greivous bodily harm" to the officer or a third party:

1. Means
2. Opportunity
3. Intent

So, in regards to this case, let's break it down.

1. Did the pastor have the POTENTIAL MEANS to inflict death or greivous bodily harm to the officers or a third party? YES. A vehicle, regardless of whether it is a Ford F-350 or a KIA, can inflict death or greivous bodily harm, regardless of its speed; try letting a car roll over you at ONE MILE PER HOUR and see how you come out after the fact.

2. Did the pastor have the POTENTIAL OPPORTUNITY to inflict death or greivous bodily harm? YES. The officers were on the ground, potentially in the path of the vehicle that was attempting to flee a lawful detention being made by undercover officers who clearly identified themselves. The article even states that they did indeed have badges displayed; this was attested to by witnesses.

3. Did the pastor have the POTENTIAL INTENT to inflict death or greivous bodily harm? YES. Even driving your vehicle AT an officer is grounds for deadly force. I'll explain that; if a suspect pulls out a weapon and displays it, he is indicating intent to use it. Does an officer have to wait for the suspect to fire the weapon at him to use deadly force? Of course not. Intent is implied from the action taking place. By striking an officer with the vehicle, he is indicating that his intent is to use the car (weapon) against the officers.

I'll go ahead and address what I'm sure will be brought up by someone. Did he hit the officer by accident as he was trying to escape or was it intentional? Who knows and the bottom line, it doesn't matter. The potential and the threat was present.

Now, I can safely say that no one would like to be placed in the position of these officers. You have a situation that escalates quickly into a potentially life or death situation. The officers gave a command to stop the car. The pastor chose to do otherwise and, in the process, be it by malice or recklessness, elevated the situation to deadly force encounter.

It is tragic for everyone involved. BUT, the loss of life could have been avoided if the pastor had not taken the illegal course of action that HE chose.



posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 01:21 PM
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I generally stick up for cops, but this isn't really justifiable.

Plain clothed cops jump out of a civilian vehicle with guns drawn and they shoot the guy for getting the hell out of there.

What did they expect him to do?

These "cops" need to sit in a cell for about 25 to life and think about their actions.



posted on Sep, 29 2009 @ 03:30 AM
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3. Did the pastor have the POTENTIAL INTENT to inflict death or greivous bodily harm? YES. Even driving your vehicle AT an officer is grounds for deadly force. I'll explain that; if a suspect pulls out a weapon and displays it, he is indicating intent to use it. Does an officer have to wait for the suspect to fire the weapon at him to use deadly force? Of course not. Intent is implied from the action taking place. By striking an officer with the vehicle, he is indicating that his intent is to use the car (weapon) against the officers.


The America I grew up in is lost then.



posted on Sep, 29 2009 @ 07:11 AM
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reply to post by jprophet420
 


Then, I'm sorry to say, that you clearly grew up in a very sheltered environment. Which isn't bad, in fact, if you had that sort of idyllic upbringing, then you have not had the distraction of fear to prevent you from pursing your goals and education. However, I've got bad news for you; it can be an ugly world out there. It is full of evil people that would never think twice about taking your life to fulfill whatever wants they have. Life is cheap to some. If you have never encountered people like that, then consider yourself lucky. As a law enforcement officer, I can tell you that we do encounter these types of people. Our very nature puts us into these encounters. We are usually dealing with the bad people in the world. We are there when things are at their worst. The problem is, you usually cannot tell who is who until the violence starts. Every person we deal with has the potential to be one of those that would not think twice about pulling a gun and using it. We have to REACT to the actions of others. And often these reactions are life and death reactions.

Don't blame police officers for the state of our degraded moral fabric.



posted on Sep, 29 2009 @ 07:51 AM
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Originally posted by Bspiracy
This is not police brutality.

With all the crap I've seen regarding the police, you can't take everything they do and use it against them. Not all police are bad and not all force is wrong.

It's obvious the guy was trying to get away. It's obvious he struck the cop while pulling backwards AND forwards.. it's obvious the so called "pastor" was in the wrong.

If there's anything to look at, it's the hypocrisy of people who call themselves a pastor.

Makes me lose more faith in the church than the police. (not that I had any anyway)

b



what??? he was so close that the policeman should have shot out his tires, or they could have given chase, but he was supposedly involved in drugs, black, and in georgia...(yawn) what else is new.

black people have got to know, that in the south, DO NOT make police angry for anything, or they will more likely shoot you dead.



posted on Sep, 29 2009 @ 08:33 AM
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The bottom line:

These so-called cops jumped out of a regular looking vehicle with guns. The innocent man could see no badges, no lights, nothing; only some black men in Atlanta rushing at him with handguns at a convenience store. All were shouting different things at the same time.

Be honest. What would you do in such a situation? I think he reacted normally.

In that split second moment he tried to drive away from what looked like a gang car-jacking. Something that goes on in Atlanta all the time.

The pastor had nothing to do with drug dealing or anything else. Period.

This is lousy police work. Totally inept.

No excuses.



posted on Sep, 29 2009 @ 08:47 AM
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Originally posted by jprophet420
reply to post by Aggie Man
 


Your literal definition leaves a lot of room for inference. For example water can kill you. Therefore a watergun is a deadly weapon. However, in the legal sense of the word deadly force was not used by the suspect, nor is it present when you are carrying a watergun.


Deadly force is generally defined as physical force which, under the circumstances in which it is used, is readily capable of causing death or serious physical injury. In order for deadly force to be justified there must be an immediate, otherwise unavoidable threat of death or grave bodily harm to yourself or other innocents. Deadly force is that force which could reasonably be expected to cause death or grave bodily harm.




[edit on 4-9-2009 by jprophet420]


I suggest you stand against a wall and have someone shoot at you with a water pistol and then someone let their car go 5mph against you. If you survive the latter, you have a valid point. Cars are deadly weapons. I do not even really care about this case so much any more that I have read all of this. The reason teenagers die so often in car wrecks is because they do not understand how deadly a weapon a car is. They are tools to be used properly otherwise resulting in great harm. I do not care what you do with your supersoaker, you will not crush or drown me with it.



posted on Sep, 29 2009 @ 08:58 AM
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The video is not working for me but hey. Cops can do bad things, just google Greece NY PD. We put one in jail about every other month for being dirty. I also agree that cops are fast to whip out force that is above and beyond necessary. Tazers are now replacing simply grabbing a shoulder or even raising your voice.

However...from what I read, the priest was with a known drug dealer. The police identified themselves and he fled. This is not how someone acts when they are not a threat to someone. You did not know if he was buying drugs, or even doing drugs but he ran. At this point, assault on cop or not, the man is a threat to the general public at large.

Yes water can kill you but water can also be vapor or just a half inch at the bottom of a paper cup. Those things do not scare me as much. A car is always a deadly weapon.

We have a nice little roadside grave in the city here where a kid was killed two years ago outside of a bar. He was run over by a car backing out of a spot. Guess how what speed he had it up to backing all the way out of that parking spot?

I see a lot of great videos on ATS of police doing very un-policeman like things. This does not sound like one of them though.



posted on Sep, 29 2009 @ 09:06 AM
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Originally posted by jprophet420
reply to post by Dr Love
 


Like I said it fits the literal definition but it defies the legal definition, and the legal definition is the one the police have to answer to.

In order for deadly force to be justified there must be an immediate, otherwise unavoidable threat of death or grave bodily harm



However, do we let criminals go that shoot at, but miss a cop?


No, of course not. However the car did hit the cop and did not cause any harm. No deadly force was present. In the example of the gun deadly force is used but misdirected.

This is a poor analogy. The car hit the cop but did not kill him. That is not the same as shooting and missing. That is the same as shooting and not doing serious damage. Kill me or barely scrape me, if you hit me with a bullet or a car, that is use of deadly force. That puts the cops in immediate danger. It seems like you are saying the if a man were to stab a cop, the cop cannot use deadly force unless it hits a major artery and does irreparable damage.



so you are saying that a moving vehicle is NOT readily capable of causing deadly force?

Of course not. I am saying that in this case it was not. This fact is PROVEN as the car collides with the officer and no harm is done.


Ever get shot in the fatty part of your thigh? It hurts a ton but does not really do any major harm. It is just about never life threatening. Should a cop then not be allowed to shoot back because he was struck with the bullet but it did not do any major harm?

I agree with another poster that if you are going to fight the corrupt cops, you had better stick to ones that are obviously out of hand and not ones that could justify their actions to at least some of the people watching. We have good examples of cops beating up 15 year old girls in a jail cell and cops leaving the mic on while they frame a chick for getting rear-ended and body checking a bike rider off his bike for no reason at all and on and on. This one is an uphill battle and really not worth it.

[edit on 29-9-2009 by K J Gunderson]



posted on Sep, 29 2009 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by jimmyx
black people have got to know, that in the south, DO NOT make police angry for anything, or they will more likely shoot you dead.


Weren't the cops black as well?



posted on Sep, 29 2009 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by jimmyx
black people have got to know, that in the south, DO NOT make police angry for anything, or they will more likely shoot you dead.


Weren't the cops black as well?


Pastor was WHITE and had no connection to anything these genius cops thought he did.

As the pastor was backing out of a parking space a PLAIN BLACK PICK-UP screeched to a halt behind his car.

A black man in a plain tee-shirt with a handgun drawn leaps from the driver's side of the pick-up.

As the pastor continued to back up, a SECOND black man jumped from the passenger side of the pick-up and got in the path of the pastor's vehicle. He too had a gun in hand and was wearing a plain shirt.

There was nothing to indicate that this was anything more than a robbery or car-jacking.

The "cops" pick-up was left in gear and continued to roll forward until it bumped into the curb.

The second gunman was not injured by the pastor's car. The pastor may not have even seen the second man if he was still looking at the first one.

The entire event from the moment the pastor saw the man leap from his truck with a gun until the pastor put the car in drive to move forward was roughly 5 seconds.

Idiotic police work (if you can call it that). It's like a "no knock" penetration of the wrong house with two men dressed as home invaders instead of police. Just plain stupid.

And a great man is dead because of their stupidity. Read about him if you have time.

[edit on 29-9-2009 by Whatthehell?]



posted on Sep, 29 2009 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by Whatthehell?
Pastor was WHITE and had no connection to anything these genius cops thought he did.


I was responding to the person that said "black people have got to know, that in the south, DO NOT make police angry for anything, or they will more likely shoot you dead."

I said I could not see the video so I was going on what people were saying. Apparently some people are watching different videos.


As the pastor was backing out of a parking space a PLAIN BLACK PICK-UP screeched to a halt behind his car.

A black man in a plain tee-shirt with a handgun drawn leaps from the driver's side of the pick-up.

As the pastor continued to back up, a SECOND black man jumped from the passenger side of the pick-up and got in the path of the pastor's vehicle. He too had a gun in hand and was wearing a plain shirt.

There was nothing to indicate that this was anything more than a robbery or car-jacking.

The "cops" pick-up was left in gear and continued to roll forward until it bumped into the curb.

The second gunman was not injured by the pastor's car. The pastor may not have even seen the second man if he was still looking at the first one.

The entire event from the moment the pastor saw the man leap from his truck with a gun until the pastor put the car in drive to move forward was roughly 5 seconds.

Idiotic police work (if you can call it that). It's like a "no knock" penetration of the wrong house with two men dressed as home invaders instead of police. Just plain stupid.

And a great man is dead because of their stupidity. Read about him if you have time.

[edit on 29-9-2009 by Whatthehell?]


Thanks. That does put an entirely different spin on things. I will have to watch it when I get home tonight. Unfortunately, I stand by my argument that a car is a deadly weapon and a squirt gun is a joke but from this description, it sounds like I would have fled as well.



posted on Sep, 29 2009 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by JWH44
 


All i have to say to this is that you only see this situation from a cops point of whew. Maybe because you are a cop your self.

You only mention the cops right to use deadly force. But you dont mention how the cops actions reflect on the victim. Don't you cops ever think about your own actions and what impression your actions might give the victim.

From the video i see cops in civilian cloths charging the victim with guns. Right there you escalated the situation from normal to abnormal. Your action created fear. And that fear put the officers in danger. Don't you cops learn this stuff?

The action done by the cops them selves in this case put them self in danger. By creating fear in the victim. There by giving themselves the right to use deadly force. Ain't that great.

Do you really expect a civilian to know that cops disguised as civilians are really cops.



posted on Sep, 29 2009 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by jd140
I generally stick up for cops, but this isn't really justifiable.

Plain clothed cops jump out of a civilian vehicle with guns drawn and they shoot the guy for getting the hell out of there.

What did they expect him to do?

These "cops" need to sit in a cell for about 25 to life and think about their actions.


That, and it's evident that the cop put himself into a position where the car could strike him if it was moved. It's like putting yourself in front of a freight train then blaming the conductor.



posted on Sep, 29 2009 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by SpacePunk

Originally posted by jd140
I generally stick up for cops, but this isn't really justifiable.

Plain clothed cops jump out of a civilian vehicle with guns drawn and they shoot the guy for getting the hell out of there.

What did they expect him to do?

These "cops" need to sit in a cell for about 25 to life and think about their actions.


That, and it's evident that the cop put himself into a position where the car could strike him if it was moved. It's like putting yourself in front of a freight train then blaming the conductor.



Had a police car with flashing lights pulled up behind him the pastor would have hit the brakes. Had he seen anything that looked like a police officer, he would have halted and held up his hands.

None of that happened.

Two inept cops in plain shirts driving a pick-up truck suddenly leapt out at a completely innocent man with handguns. As they rushed him he kept going. Same thing anyone would do in his situation.

Nothing identified them as being anything other than typical Atlanta gang-bangers. His death is entirely the fault of these stupid, clueless men.



posted on Sep, 29 2009 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by Whatthehell?
 


I finally got to watch it and I agree with you. From the priest's perspective, he was most likely in danger and not under arrest. A car is still a deadly weapon but I cannot believe that they expected him to be complacent when they ran at him screaming with no real identification of themselves.



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