reply to post by mmiichael
Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. Also I am not a scientific/legal
or medical expert in any field. Beware of my Contagious Memes! & watch out that you don't get cut on my Occams razor.All of this is my personal
conjecture and should not be considered the absolute or most definitive state of things as they really are. Use this information at your own risk! I
accept no liability if your ideology comes crashing down around you with accompanying consequences.
Explanation: 1stly you state and I quote "Great concept. Unfortunately the article doesn't deal with the magnitude of this very well. Seems to be
written by someone who didn't really grasp the idea."
And I'll leave that statement for a moment and I'll get back to it...
2ndly you state "Life could be called the antithesis of the laws of thermodynamics and entropy. It introduces organization and complexity into a
system that lacked it."
This is promoting ignorance and here is why......
From PHYSICS 5th edition GIANCOLI
Chptr 15 The Law of Thermodynamics
Sub Chptr 10 Evolution and growth;"Time's Arrow".
An interesting example of the increase in entropy relates to biological evolution and to growth of organisms. Clearly, a human being is a highly
ordered organism. The process of evolution from the early macromolecules and simple forms of life to Homo sapiens is a process of increasing order.
So, too, the development of an individual from a single cell to fully grown person is a pocess of increasing order. Do these processes violate the 2nd
law of thermodynamics? No, they do not. In the process of evolution and growth, and even during the mature life of an individual, waste products are
eliminated. These small molecules that remain as a result of metabolism are simple molecules without much order. Thus they represent relatively high
disorder or entropy. Indeed, the total entropy of the molecules cast aside by organisms during the process of evolution and growth is greater than the
decrease in entropy associated with the order of the growing individual or evolving species.
Another aspect of the 2nd law of thermodynamics is that it tells us in which direction processes go. If you were to see a film being run backwards,
you would undoubtedly be able to tell that it was run backwards. for you would see odd occurrences, such as a broken coffe cuprising from the floor
and reassembling on the table , or a torn ballon suddenly becoming whole and filled with air. We know these things don't happen in real life; they
are processes in which order increases -- or entropy decreases. They violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics. When watching a movie [or imagining that
time could go backwards], we are tipped off to a reversal of time by observing whether entropy is increasing or decreaseing. Hence entropy has been
called time's arrow
, for it can tell us in which direction time is going.
[Note the above was typed out manually by me from the actual book.]
Personal Disclosure: Now, getting back to your 1st comment is recommend that if you are going to invoke any law of thermodynamics/entropy then you had
better know what state the entire system is in before you start wielding rules around that are specially caveated [i.e the 2nd law] by whether the
system is open, closed or isolated. Planet Earth and the life [order] on it are not in thermodynamic/entropic equillibrium because the system is
neither closed or isolated. WHY? Because we have a sun the supplies all the energy needs of the planet requires to be in a state of local over unity
which allows for internal states of increased entropy [i.e life etc] and the work to do this local increase of entropy is paid for as waste products
with a high level of disorder [see info supplied above!].
Seem's to me that your post didn't deal with the magnitude of this very well and seems to be written by somebody who hasn't really grasped the
concept of thermodynamics! Care to refute?
P.S. As for the QM concept of observer effect and how that may kybosh our ability to detect/sense and therefor test for breaks in the 2nd law of
thermodynamics is a waste of time as it can only be tested for using hardcore equipment etc. where as stated above we can already do this by watching
for entropic increase that violates the 2nd law. We do it all the time naturally and the long term statistical analysis of broad enviromental states
and observers constantly reinforces the current kuhnian paradigm that we both recently and currently don't seem to be able to "get something for
nothing!" [existence is itself excluded or both you and I will have to explain the big bang isolated by the context and constraints of the 2nd
law...very tricky huh!].
Edited for spelling etc.
Edited again for spelling. me a
[edit on 2-10-2009 by OmegaLogos]
[edit on 2-10-2009 by OmegaLogos]