“Young Workers: A Lost Decade.”

Originally posted by kosmicjack

People should not have to worry about that in the wealthiest nation in the history of the world.

Regarding health care, I agree with you completely. Your sister's situation...similar to my own. That's why I have stayed in a career that I hate for so long...why I have been afraid to leave the security of my career...because I cannot get health insurance on my own because of my "pre-existing condition."

If people with pre-existing health conditions weren't denied health insurance, I think we would have a boom of American ingenuity again. But unfortunately, many of us are tied to careers we don't like, and could be doing many other innovative things, simply because of health insurance.

It wouldn't even have to be government run health insurance. If the government would just make it a law that health insurance companies cannot deny someone health insurance....and that it has to be offered at an affordable rate....boy, can you imagine how much life would change in America? I think we would have a huge boom in small business in America, once again.

Corporate America and lobbying is ruining America. It's much, much harder to start and run your own business these days. It doesn't mean it can't be done....it's just much harder these days.

[edit on 4-9-2009 by nikiano]

[edit on 4-9-2009 by nikiano]

Originally posted by nikiano
Corporate America and lobbying is ruining America.

Hell, they're running it.

IMO, the Health Care is is being made so much more complicated than it needs to be. Just amend the Medicare Act to include all ages. People who want to take part in it can. People who don't and would prefer their own private or workplace insurance could get a tax credit equivalent to the overall value. Problem solved. Then people wouldn't be held hostage by crappy employers or crappy coverage.

It is called laziness. I for one do not know where they got these figures and frankly the amount of people studied in the was such a small portion it is insignifigant.

I for one have been working Full time since I was 18 years old. Timeline of my life:

14.5 years old: First Job as a bus boy to save up for my first car.

18 years old: Joined the military (Navy)

22 years old: Got out of the military

22 years old: Got a full time professional salaried job

I am now 26 years old and still am employed have traveled all of Europe and the United States. I support my parents and Grandparents when they need some financial help. Keep in mind all of this is without a Degree, just hardwork and dedication.

What I found having younger brothers and sisters is that most people end up staying in the same area they were raised, in my families case it is a rural area where there is hardly any work. I refused to go back to my rural home due to that fact. Instead I moved to a metropolitan Area and got a job.

This survey is Bull in my opinion, professional beggars make 50+ k per year. Get out of your PARENTS HOUSE and get a job! You can do it I am a perfect example! Between my GF and I we make 130K, you just have to get out there and do it, parents quit holding onto your kids LET THEM GO! Damn this really got me angry

-Kdial1

i fall into this category as well.

im 25. i have had a job though since i was young, but it seems i can never keep any money.

i dont own a plasma tv, my truck is financed to me through my dad, i was living on my own in savannah and paying rent and all that, had healthcare, but since i was having a hard time struggling, my parents told me to move back home. they dont live here, but rather at their work, and they show up every couple months for a few days.

i went to school for industrial design, switched my major to interactive game design at savannah college of art and design. i still owe somewhere around 60+k for loans. i couldnt finish school because my parent old boss destroyed their credit which in turn killed my chances at renewing loans.

when i got out of school, i was in debt up to my eyes, no job, no degree, and a broke down car.

i fell back on what i knew, and that was websites. i had been building them since i was 15 and felt i had a chance to continue with that as no employer would hire a kid with no degree in the 3D/game/product design world.

i got a few freelance clients, and found a small design shop in hilton head island, sc. worked there for 2 years, but could never make ends meet. i was making $15/hr there, but should have been closer to $20 or $25. thats when my parents said, just come back and live for free and get your s#$% in order.

i did and spent from sept 08 to december 08 looking and finally found a place in columbus ga that paid me even less. i now make $13/hr with no rent, and was keeping my head above water. no healthcare, and same broke car mind you.

the car finally died, and i had to get a new one which was my dads truck, and he got a new one. now i have added 300/month for that plus phone, and still no healthcare.

i barely make that work. doesnt help my commute is 42 miles each way, which comes to around 300/month for gas.

my dad asks me all the time where does all your money go?

to bills.

youre a loser.

*sigh* i know

back when he made 13 an hour, you could buy a car for 2500 brand new.

how do i make ends meet when money disappears.

i eventually want a family and a house. but im still in debt, and cant even afford a nice dinner out every now and then.

my girlfriend is supposed to be moving in soon, and maybe we can make it work if we add both incomes.

man i sure hope so...

good thread. makes me feel like not the only one at least.

reply to post by kdial1


nice work on the 130k a year.

try doing it with 20k a year.

and ive worked since i was 13. school was the biggest waste of time and money for me.

[edit on 9/4/2009 by mahtoosacks]

I have a good job I enjoy, but I have done a lot of crappy jobs over the years to make sure a steady paycheck was there for the bills. The smartest thing I have ever done is take a year after high school and work at a video store. It paid $4.85 an hour and I had to deal with the creapy guys in trench coats who spent 20 minutes looking at video cases in the back room and then "hung out" in the washroom for another 20 minutes before picking something to take home from the front section.

I have worked in engineering firms before, they expect you to always be billable. IE your work has to be directly for a client and something they can pass on the cost of to a client. I still have friends who work in engineering firms and they are hurting. To avoid layoffs they scalled everyone back to 3 days a week (it's called job sharing). Lots of the younger ones have given up working they barely get anything done, so the older ones on the projects have to work there butts off to get the work done because if they didn't make up for the poor work of the younger members then they themselves would be out of a job along with them.

Now that being said where I work I am mid 30's and head a project group up. We are also supposed to be billable as much as possible. My team has a few junior guys in there early to mid 20's, one intermediate in his late 20's, one senior guy in his mid 30's like me and two seniors in there late 40's to mid 50's. Now we have both field and office work to do and I assign field and office work based on skills, geographical location (we are spread across 2 provinces) and type of work. Some jobs can be assigned to anyone others need a senior to do because of legal reasons (qualifications). I recently assigned an older senior guy to do a bunch of office work that needed doing and was billable (ie the client had asked us to do it and was paying for it), I sent a junior guy to do some field work in the same area because he was qualified to do it and needs the field experience to advance to the next level. I also sent the senior guy who is in his 30's to the same area to do other field work and act as a backup to the junior if he needed help and the senior I sent is a good teacher (way better than the older guy). I worked it out that everyone would make there billable quota, the work would all get done and the junior would get more experience towards his next license level. This is getting harder to do because of the general work slow down, but I figured I did a good job of balancing all the needs. The older guy is about 10 years from retirement and it will take most of those 10 years to get the juniors trained upto senior level so I don't really have as much time as it appears I do.

The older guy got very upset about getting paperwork and not field work. At the end of the week when time sheets where submitted I found out he had not done the assigned work and had 0 billable hours that week.

To make a long story shorter let me say that it is not just that younger works have poor work habits, just as often it's the older employees who are afraid of the young people working against them out of fear of loosing there jobs. Also some older employees believe they deserve the "plum" assignments because of age/experience/grumpiness etc.

I would prefer an under qualified worker with a good work ethic over someone who needs constant supervision but who is skilled.

There have been a number of posts referencing mine, so I won't replyy to one ofthemm so as not to exclude one of the many thoughtful responses.

I'm sorry, but both sides of this issue are true. I am truly sorry that there are many folks who are in a difficult spot and either unemployed or under employed. Clearly immigration and outsourcing are factors impacting this issue. Another major issue is the current trade policy with essentially a completely free, global market for goods and services. When older folks were starting out, many of the industrial powerhouses in the world, notable India and SouthEast Asia were third world countrys. They did not have jobs nor services that could compete with those in the western world.

That has changed. Now with the open market environment and the difference in labor rates in the world, American, Canadian and Western European (including the UK) companys can not compete. Products and services that typically had a double digit margin are not single digit margin businesses. Factor in inflation and you have a real problem. This problem is the fault of the Government, through trade policy, not corporations. In a capitalist society a firm has to deliver value to its shareholders. By definition, that requires them to source labor and products at the lowest price possible. They have to do that or they will go out of business. That only makes the problem worse.

I can also tell you, after being on this site that the young folks posting are not representative of young people in the work force (or looking to enter it) today. The level of thoughtfulness, communication skills and level of awareness are far greater than the average young person seeking employment. Perhaps that underscores the validity of the OPs post, but I don't think it does. In my experience, a lot of young people are simply not willing to work hard or are ill prepared to work in a professional environment. When I worked hard and found a young person who I thought was a good fit for the job, I was consistently impressed with their work ethic, integrity and the contribution they made to the team. I suspect that many of the posters on this thread would fit into that category. The simply fact of the matter is (IMO) that you are in the minority of young people today.

I wish you all well. I don't see it getting better and I do think that we have entered a phase, perhaps permanent where the younger generation will not do as well or better than their parents.

Man I can so relate to that...except the last part. No matter how poor I am I will never sign up for obama's private army. I am no obama sycophant. I understand socialism is not the answer. The answer is having a REAL economy and government.

It's not because I'm in college. Everybody there loves obama, and it's not even a liberal school. A professor asked how many think the government did 9/11, an intentionally manipulative question from a totally rude bully, so it was only me and two others, not even 10%. I've seen the polls that at least a third don't believe the lie, so I know they're either afraid to be honest or a product of public school indoctrination.

I'm a polysci major, and you can't get the talk off of the left-right paradigm. People don't know about bilderburg. It's weird, people in college are ironically uninformed as hell!

Anyway, I've only job I've ever had was work study. Never had an application go any further. Not even a chance to interview (WS interview was great, they loved me). I'm so worried about being jobless after college with a bit of debt.

[edit on 4-9-2009 by CapsFan8]

There are three things that ANY economy needs to follow in order to maintain an economy conducive to all people within their jurisdiction.

1 EDUCATION: We have the GED generation, and not because kids are dumb, but because the adults in charge of educating them are. Don't believe me? Sit in your high-school kids class for a month and pay attention, I mean REALLY pay attention to what the teacher is doing, and more importantly, NOT DOING.

2. Sound Monetary Policy and Sound Economics: When you destroy the value of a dollar over time, and have government intervention in every aspect of business you wind up in a situation where people are out of work, what work they can get offers a meager wage as the cost of goods goes up and up...So what does hard work get you? People, even kids, see this and wonder what the point of it all really is...Don't believe me? Have an honest conversation with your kids about it.

3. Liberty!

reply to post by kosmicjack


I have seen so much in 65 years that I cannot condense it here. I feel terrible for the young generation. I started working in 3rd grade helping relatives in their businesses. Experience or how I looked was never an issue but when I came to USA, the first job I found was at %45 of the person that got similar job with lot less experience and education. When I raised the question, I was told this is American way. I am the person that got 3 promotions in two years before coming to USA. If I told some one what I did in the past they told me that I am a liar. When the foundation of a society is based on wrong principals eventually it catches on. The laws on race religion etc. was to patch things. In reality it never took care of the problem. Mafia of twenties never died. They gave birth to more mafia and educated them. Their religion is money. Honesty sincerity and being good are the values of Christians etc. The problem with CEOs and Managers are that they strictly go by what they learn in school and college. They don't have mind of their own to observe. They act like robot. If a person goes for interview, what a suit and tie means as long this person doesn't look odd among the group they he or she will most likely be working in. You are not there to be a model. Similarly if I am there for engineering job that has to do with automation. Does it make sense to be asked about space or solar system. Regardless how good I am at the profession what I am gonna work as, why I am being judged by outside knowledge. Just to tell you kids that nothing is wrong with you, if there is, it is with the person that interviewing you. After 22 years I opted for early retirement when the idiots were pushing me beyond my capacity. Just to give you an example how good I was. I was given a list of missing equipments that every body else had tried it and the boss was carrying it for two months and it was due for inventory purpose. When asked me I returned the list after two hours every piece of equipment accounted for with location marked. On every day basis I was handling at least 10 people jobs. I never refused any thing I was asked and yet my pay never matched equal to others even when I was senior to them. When I quit, It is the same place that went down hill. It was my baby comprised of twenty two engine testing cells. After 5 years I hear they are closing it. Because idiots were in charge of it and they only knew
how to order others instead of knowing what is right. The seniors never had the threat losing their jobs when I started working in the Industry. So they passed on their skill to people like me. Today the psychology changed. They will never teach you. This is what the elite (CEO, Manager) don't understand. We are the one documented those jobs and we know what it takes to make it work. There is always revolution when things go to extremes.

reply to post by projectvxn


i completely agree about the ged generation. my dad got his ged, and i was the first to go to college in our family. yet he makes more in one month than i do in a whole year.


how does that work? especially today?

reply to post by kosmicjack


The fact you quoted in your post (Percentage of young US men actually working lowest in 61 years: since they started keeping records) is one of the most disturbing stat's I've seen recently, and one that gets little exposure.

Originally posted by silent thunder
reply to post by kosmicjack

 

The fact you quoted in your post (Percentage of young US men actually working lowest in 61 years: since they started keeping records) is one of the most disturbing stat's I've seen recently, and one that gets little exposure.

i think there could be a conspiracy in that.

the fact that i just found out made me feel better that there are others like me.

before that i was so down that i didnt know what to do with myself. how could i not be successful like all the other people out there.

made me want to go on government support, or cease to be.

then it hit me.....

DING!
maybe its a reason...

(leave me alone, this IS a conspiracy forum)

I'm an 18 year old non-religious white male high school graduate, tell me, what group represents my rights? What "minority" am I in? Seems like I've got all the wrong things going for me to get a job. Pisses me off when I see people much more lazy and unreliable complain about their jobs that I would gladly do, yet somehow the high school dropout with a criminal record and all such as that is more "qualified" just because they fit into one of the "minority" categories (not being racist).

As much as this thread hits close to home, and I feel the pain of my SA friends and ATS'ers, we CAN make it!

Let me tell you about my life. I finished High School in South Africa in 1994. I wanted to become an engineer - but my parents just did not have the money to help me go to university. I was fortunate to land a job working at an electrical wholesale company, as a store man / slave (call it that). I earned US$250/month.... Yes, you read that right US$250/Month - Before taxes!

I used to build shelves, lie on the ground in a uniform, getting all dirty to make sure the bolts and nuts at the base were solidly in place to take the weight of electrical cables. I used to roll off SWA (Steel Wired Armored) cabling off huge wooden drums, and then cut them with a hacksaw for customers - That S*it is heavy like hell, and Hard physical labor! And I did much more.

I worked hard, got a raise and promotion. Then another company approached me, hearing of my hard work and dedication. I joined the Architectural Hardware world. The company wanted me in a sales position, as I had worked myself into that position at my current company.

I accepted, but ONLY on the basis that I spent 4 months working in production to learn not only the products, But how they were made, and what their attributes / capabilities / capacities were. I worked mechanical presses and all kinds of machinery. Not only did this impress the directors, but I forged a bond with the staff in manufacturing that lasted for my career there.

In fact, never ONCE did they deny my request for help when I was in sales, and a customer needed something urgent. Whilst I worked there for 8 years (and staying with my parents), I saved up the money to study part time - All out of my pocket. (I still paid housekeeping to Dad!)

I worked Mondays to Thursdays 7:30 - 5pm, Fridays 7:30 - 3pm. EVERY Tuesday and Thursday I left the office at 4:30pm to go to lectures until 9-10pm at night (I could leave at 4:30 because I NEVER took a lunch hour - gobbled my food up, and back to work!)

EVERY Saturday I was at lectures from 8am until 2pm. I had to complete assignments every semester, and man were they hard. Not to mention final examinations! At this time, I was still going to gym 6 Days a week. A 4yr part time degree (BBA) was completed in 3-1/2yrs! I was exhausted..., but It was part of bettering myself.

I applied to immigrate to Canada, and now here I am. My entire family lives back in South Africa, and I live here on my own, thankfully making ends meet.

Moral of the story - Don't EVER give up! In 1995 earning US$250/month - I could have thrown the towel in, but I didn't. I took small steps to build "the ladder" and climb to where I am now.

Guys & Gals - It's hard for us younger generation - No Doubt! But we must find the ways to overcome this global 'epidemic'. The Chinese factories and government take advantage of their people - I know, we lost many jobs at my old company in SA due to this. However, how long can it last, before the poorer nations people Demand a higher standard of living (wage)? What will happen then

(PS - I'm not a US basher - so don't flame me - but many US companies have sold their people out. I've seen many US companies here in Canada move to China, India and Mexico for lower labor costs - hurting both US & Canadian workers! - so we feel it to)

reply to post by flyingwoody


Hate to say this, but you're in the minority of "1" and your voice doesn't count, welcome to the NWO, how would you like your soilent green?

On a much lighter note:

Nation's Unemployment Outlook Improves Drastically After Fifth Beer

We have to laugh so we don't cry, right?

I think on top of the recession factor effecting job prospects, there must be another factor taken into consideration, and that is the flat-out population growth within the US: Population graph

I mean, with 60 million more people living in the US since 1990, it´s no wonder good paying jobs are harder to come by.


[edit on 4-9-2009 by fockewulf190]

reply to post by renaissance_man


"What I find interesting is that the boomer generation looks down on us. Saying we want things handed to us, and they had to work so hard to get where they are. An article in my local news paper, stated that in the 70's the same entry level positions not only required less education, but taking inflation into account paid a lot more than now. It seems they want more education for the same job that required a high school education or less then. When the job is no doubt easier due to computers. Not to mention the experience requirements, and wanting you pre-trained. Many of those entry level jobs would actually include training 30 years ago"

I hate to tell you this, but the situation today was the same faced by many "Boomers" in the 1970s. It is probably worse now, but the effects are the same. The main difference is the money is more devalued than in the 70s, but the effects of an employers' market are exactly the same today as they were in the 1970s.

First, it takes more education in the form of degrees to get the entry level job. It was the same in the 70s and early 80s. I had to go back to school to "get educational qualifications" to get an entry level job. There was a boom in demands for MBA school slots.

Second, there was a demand for EXPERIENCE to get a job. Basically, entry level jobs disappeared. The employers did not want to spend the money to train anyone, with an exception being government entry level jobs. Not only did employers demand narrowly-tracked degrees to get a job, but almost EXACT experience. It wasn't enough to have experience in "computers," but an EXACT kind of computer in exactly the same business.

The complaints on several posts about "protected groups" exactly echoes the same complaints from the 70s, with the exception of added groups, such as cross dressers, tatooing, etc. When jobs are plentiful, no one talks about affirmative action, but when jobs and school slots get tight, it becomes an issue. In 1977, Alan Backke sued when he couldn't get into med school because of affirmative action. In good times, you just apply at another med school and get in.

There is absolutely no REAL difference between the 1970s and today, except that the underlying damage to the economy is much more severe today than back then. In fact, we might STILL BE IN the recession that started in 1973, or maybe 1971 when L.T.V. and Penn Central collapsed, and Nixon announced his New Economic Policy.

The Boomers who look down on this generation's sufferings are just exhibiting the narcissism that is one of the hallmarks of that generation. No one knows as much as Boomers, and no one discovered more things (sex, drugs, music, etc. etc.) as that bunch of ego-maniacs. When disco music was in, they ate it up, but when it became passe', they all acted like they HATED it. A lot of them are a feckless gang who would rather forget that they once wore polyester and thought they were the cat's meow dancing the hustle under a glitter ball somewhere after spending the work week sucking up to the boss by slandering a co-worker. Boomers are one big reason why we are in worse trouble than we were in the 1970s.

I joined ALS because of this thread, just as another posted stated. All the complaints and observations are so very familiar. We were talking about it at work just two days ago.

I agree with the article but,

I don't agree we (I'm 23) are doing ALL we can to make money. Maybe it's just me but, I have a lot of hobbies and interest. Cars, computers, news, politics, photography. I can fix cars on the side, fix computers on the side, I can photo/video events on the side. For those of you who are relying on "the system" of getting an education to get a job at a company it's time to move on. That system is slowly dieing, too much debt from education, too little job opportunities because of corporate cost cutting and technological advances. Think for yourself. What are you good at? Want to learn more, the internet is the worlds largest library. If you think looking through job listings is "looking for a job" wake up... Read the book Wikinomics it's about how open source is changing our world due to mass communication. DO NOT RELY ON THE SYSTEM. There is absolutely no guarantee with it.

I think there's so much opportunity right now. As the old corporate systems die, like newspapers, there's opportunity. Instead of people taking their computer to a shop to get it fixed and being charged say $70 an hour. Do it for them and charge half that, and while you're at it tell them the other things you can do for nearly half of what it costs. Tell them you're in school trying to pay rent and loans. It's a win - win situation. You provide a service for a great discount because you're not a corporation that has tons of costs and they provide you with the money because they can see it's going into good hands that actually need it and the money savings, and EVERYONE is looking for that right now.

This is America, if you can't make it here you can't make it anywhere else.