“Young Workers: A Lost Decade.”

I feel like we shouldn't even bother with politics anymore because well let's face it, what good will it do?

I think it's time for the people to reform it's government and country. Nuff said.

I've been saying this for a while. It won't be long until we have to work 14 hours a day for the privelage of sleeping on a cot in a gynasium and getting a couple of squares. Why haven't we snapped out of it and forced change?

Originally posted by Tentickles
I will flag this...


because I am living it.

Faced with layers and layers of taxation, licenses, fees, permits,
required insurance, at the end of the day you feel like you are working
so you can afford to work.

It can feel a bit like going in a circle.

I work part time at one of the big mega banks taking care of some
of their light weight IT stuff in my area.

They canned ALL 100% of their local helpdesk.

All gone, adios, C-ya.

I really like the job, but lately it has gotten so part time that I
stopped checking my work email and they had to call me to reach me.

I have done some part time side work of my own with prior clients
from long ago, but it is just more treading water and not going really
anywhere.

Today my limp along vehicle finally died, and fortunately I have some
savings cause I live like a total miser.

None of my friends would live in my place, its was a foreclosure
that was thrashed by druggies.

It is better than it was, but not by much.

But I have no rent, and I have no mortgage, and I was sure at some
point the economy would tank again as it has many times in the past
when the thieves in nice clothes do their dirty deeds.

I flag this because it is sad that ppl have to live thru this.



[edit on 3-9-2009 by Ex_MislTech]

reply to post by kosmicjack


A wise man once said " There is nothing new under the sun "

I think he was right...

1) "The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them
between the millstones of taxation and inflation. "

2) “The goal of socialism is communism.”

3) “Fascism is capitalism in decay”

4) Why kids are like they are after a few years in public schools:

“Give us the child for 8 years and it will be a Bolshevik forever”

5) “There are no morals in politics; there is only expedience. A scoundrel may be of use to us just because he is a scoundrel.”

~ Vladimir Lenin

Young Americans today are perceived as "the slacker generation". They aren't admired and respected as they were in the 50's an 60's for fighting our wars. They don't have the sheer force of numbers that made the baby boomers so respected in the 70's and 80's. Young Americans today are discriminated against in the workplace. There is an assumption that young people are willing to work for very low pay. Even if a young person manages to prove he is a hard worker, he still has the problem of a perception that he is willing to work for low pay, simply because everyone else has this perception and so better paying opportunities will not become available. Like many things in market psychology it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I wonder if the only way young Americans can prove they are not willing to work for beans anymore is for them to all go on strike!

reply to post by Donnie Darko



My fiance, my older sister and I are in a ridiculous situation. Crazy financial situation, no jobs in sight, and the one I have is only for 4 hours everyday, so what good does that do? My older sister is 21 and moved in with me and my fiance who are younger than she. My oldest sister of 24 has now moved in with my father so they can both help each other out, financially. Mother passed away when I was 14, so there's really no extra help there.


I do know one thing is for sure...Just because all is dark and gloom, we will not give up in this time of hardship, for if we push on, then we will be the strongest of survivors, in all aspects.

[edit on 3-9-2009 by undefy.gravity]

Yes I can totally agree with the OP. The company I work for has been slowly outsourcing our jobs to foreign countires such as India, Phillipines, Panama, and the USA. And those that they do not ship overseas they offer incentives to leave and then hire contractors to replace them. The sad thing is that alot of people are willing to take a package and leave. The majority of employees who remain are so discouraged as there is really no future for them (wage freezes for past 3-4 years- yet costs keep increasing, nowhere to advance).

The corporate machine is the problem and until we dismantle the corporations, the Fed Reserve and banking system ,and abolish interest it will just keep getting worse. It's all about the profits because they gotta keep the shareholders happy. I think the corporations are slowly self destructing as they cannot keep cutting and cutting to keep profits up without eventually failing. Only problem is this is where the Federal governments come in and purchases/bailouts those companies with your tax dollar rather than letting them fail. This leaves very little room for another startup company to come in with a new idea or something better to replace the old. Obviously the company is being run very poorly or the product or service they deliver is crap.

My other thought is that I think alot of people are actaully starting to wake up and ask themselves "is this what I have to look forward to for the rest of my able years and beyond?"or just a feeling that something huge is going happen soon. With all the news we are bombarded with about swine flu, healthcare, forced vaccinations, war, 2012 theories (doom or concious awakening) it is no wonder that a person can feel defeated.

Does anyone else have that overwhelming feeling that something that is going to change mankind forever is on the way soon?

Originally posted by nepafogo
Does anyone else have that overwhelming feeling that something that is going to change mankind forever is on the way soon?

YES. YES. YES. YES.

Dear God, I'm hoping for it.

I think all these doom-prophecies and apocolyptic situations can be merely seen as a metaphoric description for the end-of-the-world - as we know it. (that is not to say that these previously-stated events could not happen, or would not be used to cause such a revolutionary transformation in time)

With all these silly, greedy, self-absorbed, useless ideas existing on how we should live our lives, paired with the extraordinary number of luxuries that we haphazardly take for granted, I see great innovation necessary for the about-face of our world. I wish for the betterness of mankind that something strickingly big happens in my lifetime, preferably within this century. For if not, I can see the world people spiraling down towards a path of mass, redundant social suicide.

All I know is that change is something that this world needs. But not the kind we are getting as of now.

If all things fail to precede in a direction of betterment, I feel it the responsibilty of myself and my fellow peers from my own generation and beyond to initiate the movement ourselves.

And if that be the case, then, so be it.

[edit on 3-9-2009 by undefy.gravity]

reply to post by St Vaast


"Women didn't need to work and raised their children."

That brings up a great point. A growing number of couples cannot even afford to have kids let alone stay home and raise them.

Most couples I know have no children and are not planning on have children and those that do usually only have the one. The costs of daycare alone exceeds the salary of a great number of jobs.

The fact that a person cannot afford to stay home and raise their children is a disgrace. It is not much wonder a high percentage of youth today are detatched from society and seem to have little to no respect for anyone or anything. There are lots of great kids out there as well, but the youth of today are not anything like when I was that age. I think this is due to the fact that they had to grow up and be independent very quickly so that the parent could get back to work (latchkey kids).

I see both sides of this, back in the early 90's as a young technologist I was excited to make 30k per year. I hired a draftsmen in mid 98 and he was completely floored that he would start at 36k per year. He figured he should start right at 100k per year. I found that all the draftsmen that graduated that year had this attitude that they should have a dream job from day one. I owned the company and I didn't make that much.

One I hired (in 2000) was working at his desk one day about a week after he started when a women called and asked to speak to me, so an employee put her through to me. She introduced herself as the mother of my draftsmen she then proceded to tell me that she was driving towards they city we were in and would be arriving in about an hour to pick up her son (it was about 10am at this point). She was coming from a different province and had not seen her son in months and she was informing me that she would be taking him out of work early and that I was not to dock him any pay for the work he would miss that afternoon. I was floored and even though I should have told her off I didn't. Instead I talked to the draftsmen and told him he could go for lunch with her at 11 but would need to be back at noon and that if he wanted the rest of the day off it would be without pay. When the mother showed up she demanded to talk to me and proceeded to tell me how her son should be making at least 80k because he was worth it. I told her she wasn't welcome anymore in my business and could leave. They came back at noon and then she sat in her car across the street till 5 when he got off for the day. We worked 4 ten hour days so the next day was the first of our 3 day weekend. When he got back the next week we had a chat about his mother and I explained that if he had a problem with his work enviroment that he should discuss it with me not have his mother do it for him. I eventually month later found out the reason he had moved to this province was to escape his mother trying to control his life.

reply to post by nikiano


You hit it on the nail!! I feel esactly the same way.. Run, Run now while you still have a chance. Reminds me of this story.

I certainly can't take credit for this story, and I'm not sure that anyone knows the author, but it's certainly a story that everyone should read.

An American investment banker was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.

The Mexican replied, ‘only a little while.’

The American then asked why didn’t he stay out longer and catch more fish?


The Mexican said he had enough to support his family’s immediate needs.

The American then asked, ‘but what do you do with the rest of your time?’

The Mexican fisherman said, ‘I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siestas with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine, and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life.’

The American scoffed, ‘I am a Harvard MBA and could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat, you could buy several boats, eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing, and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually New York City, where you will run your expanding enterprise.’

The Mexican fisherman asked, ‘But, how long will this all take?’

To which the American replied, ‘15 - 20 years.’

‘But what then?’ Asked the Mexican.

The American laughed and said, ‘That’s the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions!”

“Millions - then what?”

The American said, “Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siestas with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos.”

Someone noted how this trend has been around since the eighties: less jobs, more competition, etc... Good point, however, clearly we've hit critical mass lately - and it seems almost everyone has been affected. I don't think we really got back on solid footing after the tech bubble of 2000. Then there was 9/11. Sure people have done well riding a few bubbles for a while - and now it appears a lot of these structural problems go back a good number of years.

I don't think many groups have it that much better off than others. Perhaps a bit, but this job market is just one big sh*t sandwich, with a few noticeable exceptions: medical and education, I suppose. One of the problems is that the worse the jobs get, the less one's experience matters. They will just put anyone in there. Yes if you are younger, you're probably angry that somebody with the same basic level of skills is getting paid more. At the same time, this very quality makes the older person's job more susceptible. Why are they going to keep the old guy if they can get some young person that is hungrier and has more energy.

There is always a lot of criticism of how women are underpaid for doing the same job that a man does. However, the fact that employers feel they can pay women less can give women an advantage in the marketplace. Because who wants to hire a man, if you can get a woman for less? This is one of the reasons I'm not surprised to hear that three out of four jobs lost lately have been lost by men. It sucks for almost everyone, except those at the very top. It must be hell in families, the wife is working her rear off and feels under appreciated and the husband is at home dreaming about blowing his head off because he can't even get to meet anyone for an interview.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by nepafogo


Beautifully stated. That's a perfect analogy for what I would love for my life to be like..

It's surprisingly hard to be self-sustaining and unreliant on anyone or anything, for instance, a job, in this sort of society.

I wish I had the means to go off on my own and supply my own food, clothes, etc. But these are very hard means to come by when more than 80% of America's youth, including myself, are flat-broke suburbanites, lost in translation.

Oh, the pity.

reply to post by nepafogo


And people wonder whats wrong with todays youth. A working mother can not properly parent her children. I know way to many families who have troubled children solely because they just don't have the time to ensure homework gets done, counsel them when they are hurting, pay attention to who their friends are ect. Mom gets home from work, rushes to get dinner on the table, do laundry and a few house hold chores, get everything ready for the next day, put the kids to bed before crashing from sheer exhaustion herself only to do it again and again. When does that leave time for any quality parenting?

Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by kosmicjack

 

I'm sorry, but I think much of this is a cop-out. This trend has been going on for some time and not only with young people. The constant jab against the "evil CEO" is a target to transfer your situation onto someone else. I certainly agree that CEO pay is an issue, but it is not a government issue and it is not one that impacts society at large. It is an issue with a specific public company. The fact that a CEO makes $50M a year is not the cause of this problem. Consider the fact that many of these CEOs also created thousands of jobs through their performance on the job. You don't hear about that. I would say that issue is a wash.

This trend with young folks has been going on for a couple of decades, including the boom years of the 80's and 90's. We are evolving into a culture that simply values a lack of committment. Commitment to hard work, to education, to relationships. I realize that I am making a generalization, but even when times were good, this was happening. I worked in corporate America - in the evil financial services industry and have hired hundreds of young people over the past 25 years. There has been a significant degregation in the quality of young job applicants during that period. These were good jobs, full insurance, paid education. Pretty much the best corporate America has to offer. Young folks who don't speak proper English, have poor written and verbal communications skills, don't come to interviews dressed professionally, or with visible tattoos or piercings is something that just did not happen 15-20 years ago. I have had to interview dozens of applicants for a good job, even administrative jobs before I had two or three candidates to choose from.

There are other factors going on here. People are living longer, staying healthy longer and working longer. That erodes some of the "room at the bottom" for young workers. The employment law environment hurts employment for young people. I would be much more inclined to pay over-time to an employee who I knew was a trusted member of the team rather than hire someone who it is pretty difficult to fire should they not perform. When you hire in corporate America today, you are essentially told what groups are underrepresented on your team and are strongly advised to hire in these under represented groups. Why? because if you have a performance problem with someone in an under represented group, that under representation will always be used as "grounds for dissmissal"when the sue. They will sue. the list of protected groups is large:
--anyone over 40
--anyone of an ethnic minority
--alternative sexual preference, including cross-dressing
--religious belief
--handicaps
--folks with body modifications (visible tattoos, piercings). These are now considered almost religious in the eyes of the law
--women

When you get down to it, only white makes under 40 are unprotected. That is part of the problem.

If the government continues down the path it is on this problem will get worse, not better. Take a look at France. It is practically impossible to fire someone in France, creating a real discentive to hire young people. The unemployment rate for young workers in France is close to 20%. France has a mandated 35 hour work week. That coupled with the above creates an environment where companys have an incentive not to grow.

I realize that it might be dificult to swallow, but lower taxes and less government involvement in the free market has consistently led to growth in the economy and increases in wages and increases in unemployment. As JFK said "a rising tide lifts all boats". Cut taxes, get the government out of the market place and firms will grow and more folks will get hired.

You are very highly misinformed. I wonder if you are yourself a business owner and protecting your own self... mentally anyways.

Corruption with CEO's and politics is the biggest problem. The biggest problem is the banking system. The banking system runs the country because think about it, if they banking system is at the heart of money transfer and gets intrest... EVERYONE has to use money... EVERYONE pays the banks interest. The bank does not give back... Gradually by this process Banks acquire all the money just by intrest alone. How do CEOS contribute? ALl their millions are in banks gaining intrest (small amounts i might add compared to what the banks clear). They are furthering the reduction process of monetary value but putting so much into the banking system instead of to good use. Another big problem is Affirmative action. I dont care what color a person is, what i care about is getting the job done. I work in the south... Mexicans are replacing us white folks at an exploding rate, and as the job market declines they are moving out.

This whole economic failure is because the Government and its employees were not thinking long run. They were thinking America Will not Falter, and corrupt Politicians were thinking about personal intrest. CEO's were thinking about how to line their coffins with money. Some people were thinking about how to improve life for those who do not take care of themselves, taking away billions of dollars to fund unsuccessful operations in multiple countries around the world. What I think is America needs to withdraw all of its troops, let the UN fill in for the U.S. over seas. Let the U.S. work on its issues until 2012 and then see where everything stands.

People blame it on this or that... the truth is.. the blame is very much ALL OVER. If you want to blame it on a certain thing tho, blame it on the "Sins of our fathers" Or Corruption. BUT Do not say its to be blamed on 1 thing or another. Its so widespread we cannot even begin to comprehend.

My 2 cents.. (that is not inflated to like 3 cents or 4 cents)

I agree this is happening, But this is a result of years of the "Cheaper" mentality. How many of these workers are driving imports? Or shop at Wal-mart? Sure, it might have been a little cheaper, but by doing this, you are supporting workers in China ans Japan, Not the US. US jobs are disappearing by the thousands, and we only have ourselves to blame.

The damage is done, this will be the first generation to not do better than their parents

I am personally experiencing this right now. I am putting my intelligence to waste to work at a place that while providing benefits, provides the least amount of benefits and salaray they can. I realize how lucky I am to have a job right now, but I really should be making at least three more dollars per hour than I am right now, being in the position I'm in. Luckily my health is in decent conditionion, thereby preventing me from having to use the hospital and copay and all that, but some of those statistics describe my situation to the T.

I'm almost 24 years old, with a Bachelor's degree in Film Production and a Master's in Business Administration, and I've been unable to find a job for nearly 6 months now. I have 3+ years of experience in product consulting and marketing, but no one will hire me. My parents are giving me a stipend each month just so I can pay my bills and not starve. I consider myself smart and extremely capable, but for whatever reason, I just can't seem to find my niche in society.

Reading these descriptions of my generation literally sent chills up my spine. These depictions are spot on. Many of my peers are in the same boat.

I hear Boomers and Gen X-ers always complaining about how the youth of today doesn't understand work ethic. Bullsh*t. We are surrounded by a much more complicated and convoluted world than our parents grew up in, with opportunities being few and far between. Even the people I know who have full-time jobs are still barely making ends meet living month-to-month.

I wish I had a solution, because I'll be honest, ATS.... I'm scared sh*tless.

I joined ATS just because of this thread. I too can relate all too well to this, being in the age range mentioned. Coming from Canada, I have had many problems starting a good career.

After gaining my Bachelor majoring in anthropology, I was unable to enter grad school due to letter of recommendation requirements, since I unfortunately had to pay for school by working, and had no time to suck up to the profs after class. Although people with lower GPAs than myself were able to go on. This is one of the ways that our modern education system is picking and choosing who will replace the current instructors who follow the same old theories. I also found that they would oddly enough reject violently non-traditional theories to the point of calling other scholars "crazy" favoring those who agreed that the standard theories are the only way to go. Also realizing that these profs may have been driven by funding.

It took me a year to find a job, some jobs in the archaeology field I found, pay considerably less than working at a grocery store part time. Yet requiring a 3 year degree at the least.

I finally was able to land an internship in a non-related field not paying much more than my previous part time job. This internship differed considerably from what was mentioned in all of the interviews. Basically ending up being retail shift work to cover areas where other staff were unavailable, leading to resent from many co-workers for taking "their" shifts.

What I find interesting is that the boomer generation looks down on us. Saying we want things handed to us, and they had to work so hard to get where they are. An article in my local news paper, stated that in the 70's the same entry level positions not only required less education, but taking inflation into account paid a lot more than now. It seems they want more education for the same job that required a high school education or less then. When the job is no doubt easier due to computers. Not to mention the experience requirements, and wanting you pre-trained. Many of those entry level jobs would actually include training 30 years ago.

Having relatives that are part of a corporate entity I know all to much how they look down on the youth looking for work now. Usually the same story about not working hard enough, or other random ways to slam our generation. It truly makes me sick. Yet you look at our grand parents generation, and they are way more laid back, easy going people.

Perhaps they are afraid of us to an extent? We represent a growing number of people who are increasingly aware of what is going on around us, far more educated, and less willing to stick to an established norm. We take better care of ourselves to a point, and are far more open to other ideas, and accepting of a wider range of people.

This is such a good thread. I find that many people my age (I'm 29) are in similar situations, and society at large is too busy judging our worth or making us feel bad about ourselves to reflect. We have some really big problems with our culture, and the way things are going, I think it's all coming down with a hu-uge crash.

But, I digress. I read a book, I think it was The Millionaire Next Door, it talked about how wealthy people believe in getting their children really good educations, but that millionaires are usually people with relatively little education who went to vo-tech type schools and started their own businesses. The book also mentioned that the amount of education, after a certain point, adversely effects the likelihood of becoming very wealthy, because the time spent in school getting degrees prevents the student from earning during those years. The advice boiled down to, go to a trade school, pick something to earn enough to make a living, and then use that living to study what you really dream of doing. That way you can afford to live, even if your dream doesn't work out the way you hoped, and you don't start out in debt.

I really wish I had read that book when I was in highschool. It wasn't published yet. I was encouraged to major in art