White House Withdraws Call for Students to 'Help' Obama

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by redmage

 

It doesn't matter if the crime was a mandate from the top or not.
It was suggested.
And THAT IS WHAT MATTERS HERE!
Jesus Christ! It is not the outcome, but the motive.

The intent was wrong!

What crime?

"It" was not suggested in the materials provided. "It" is an an unproven strawman interpretation currently based on nothing more than partisan fearmongering. People are actually getting enraged over an unsupported accusation.

Again; as of yet, no one has provided any evidence that teachers have been instructed to spin the questions in a manner such as those like yourself are already choosing to blindly accept and be outraged over. If individual teachers choose to spin it on their own, then that's a problem with your specific school district, and has nothing to do with the materials themselves. It makes absolutely no sense at all for you to say that "The intent was wrong!" when there's absolutely no evidence to back your accused assumption of "intent". As of yet, the only thing here is blind partisan fearmongering, and people lapping it up based on party lines.

reply to post by redmage


You completely missed the point, yet again.

No, there is no actual crime here. The "crime" I refer to is the offense that has people up in arms.

And once again, that crime may have not been a mandate from the top. But that doesn't matter.

Meaning that while the President may have not ORDERED teachers to follow his "outline" for discourse on the subject, it WAS SUGGESTED!

This is why people are pissed.

Damn, I'm tired of repeating myself.

reply to post by Mailman

I can remember crying because the tried to make me use right handed scissors.

That just about says it all.

Deep within many of you, there is a racist that doesn't want a dominant Black man, greeting our children, not even to just say hello. As parents, and so forth we have control over the tv, it's fine when we have control over the television at home, however, many of you are frightened of what a Black man might say, even though he is one us, a parent of two girls.

You are frightened of the most transparent president in this country's history.

When will the rest of you come to terms that the world does revolve.

reply to post by mikerussellus


Lead by example, eh?

I hope this gets me banned from this site. # You. Take your points, and give it to a republican who is politically controlled by his or her media, and lives their lives that way. This is obviously a right wing blog centre.

Enjoy.

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by redmage

 

No, there is no actual crime here.

Exactly! You're catching on!

Originally posted by JayinAR
The "crime" I refer to is the offense that has people up in arms.

Yes; however, the "offense" is a figment of the accusers' own imaginations.

Originally posted by JayinAR
And once again, that crime may have not been a mandate from the top. But that doesn't matter.

So now, regardless of who does (or doesn't) commit a "crime", it's accepted as being ok to just arbitrarily take it out on whoever we don't like based on partisan lines. Genius! You're coming through loud and clear. After all, who reallly cares if a "crime" actually occured as long as we can still blame it on whoever we don't like, and drum up some fear and anger at the same time!

Originally posted by JayinAR
Meaning that while the President may have not ORDERED teachers to follow his "outline" for discourse on the subject, it WAS SUGGESTED!

So close, and then it all fell apart...

Yes, it was suggested that teachers use the materials that the U.S.E.D. and White House came up with; however no, people are not pissed simply because it was suggested for use. People are pissed over all sorts of partisan spun interpretations of the content without the context of the accompanying video. They're letting their fear and anger get the best of them because of unsupported strawman arguments. Let's look back at the article once more.

Source

Presidential aides acknowledged the White House helped the U.S. Education Department craft the proposal, which immediately was met by fierce criticism from Republicans and conservative organizations who accused Mr. Obama of trying to politicize the education system.

(bolded by me)

Some people are pissed because partisan hacks are telling them that "White House help" instantly equates to "trying to politicize the education system". Evidence to support this accusation? Just a few half quotes without the context of the accompanying video such as "write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president.". To help the president do what? Convince kids to stay in school? Conserve energy? Tie his shoes? Eat a cheeseburger? Doesn't say, nor does it matter. The only thing that matters is to keep the partisan diatribe flying by instilling fear of the unknown.

Back to the article...

Source

The novel curriculum plan brought sharp criticism from conservatives, including some who complained that classrooms were being used to spread political propaganda.

Others are pissed about classrooms being used to spread political propaganda. Now there's something I can actually get behind! Show me the political propaganda! What? They couldn't even cite one instance of "political propaganda" in the materials? Oh well, as long as we still get to complain about propaganda I suppose it doesn't matter if there's no actual evidence to cite!

Back to the article...

Source

Mr. Vietor said the reaction to the lesson plan may not have been so strong had the curriculum been circulated after people heard the speech, which he said does not mention any political issues and does not stray from a clear message encouraging children to excel and stay in school.

The speech is "about the value of education and the importance of staying in school as part of his effort to dramatically cut the dropout rate. It's not a policy speech," Mr. Vietor said.

Bah! Boooooooring! We don't need the context of the speech to get enraged!

Hmmmmm... "no mention of political issues", "encouraging children to excel", "cut the dropout rate", and it's "not a policy speech"? Oh no he didn't!

Slim pickins for evidence of "political propaganda" there, but that's fine because merely the accusations and fearfull tones have already started their snowball effect! Lets get FURIOUS!!!!! RAWR!!!!!!

Back to the article...

Source

Critics of the president argued that some of the messages included in the "menu of classroom activities" strayed dangerously close to politicizing the classroom.

Perfect! Which ones? What? None cited? Doh! That's fine lets just add some power phrases to charge people up!

"Dangerously close", that's GREAT! This way we can still invoke fear without actually making the unsupportable claim that he is politicizing the classroom!

Hmmm, maybe I could apply this skill to other areas....

I've got it! I could start saying that each time I chop vegetables the blade comes "dangerously close" to my fingers! Less than an inch! Power phrases are so amazing that it doesn't even matter if I didn't actually cut myself! I bet I'll get all the ladies using my newfound skills to invoke a little of that sultry "danger factor" that drives 'em so wild!

Back to the article...

Source

"While I support educating our children to respect both the office of the American president and the value of community service, I do not support using our children as tools to spread liberal propaganda," said Jim Greer, chairman of the Florida Republican Party.

Yeah! That's more like it! Using our children as tools to spread propaganda is bad! Also, puppies are cute, water is wet, and a bunch of other stuff people can universally agree with me on!

Wait, you mean to tell me that he never actually accuses the president of "using our kids to spread propaganda" here? Hmmmm.... That's fine. The missing nuance is so subtle, the fearmongering is so expertly crafted, and the timing is so perfect that very few people will even notice! Toss it in! It's so perfect that it's SURE to fire people up! RAWR!!!!

Hhmm, what else....

Source

The conservative radio host Dana Loesch even urged parents to keep their children home on Tuesday, the day Mr. Obama's speech is schedule to air.

Perfect! Lets drop the idea to keep children home in protest too! Once that snowball-of-fear gets big enough I bet no one will even realize how it sounds when they say "I'm sheltering my children from the unfounded notion of politics by having them participate in an act of civil disobedience!".

I mean heck, we've already got them shouting claim's of indoctrination when none of the data supports the idea that the speech itself is even political in nature! If only my dogs were this easy to train!

Back to the article...

Source
Not everyone was outraged by the president's decision to send a videotaped message to America's schoolchildren - something President George H.W. Bush did 18 years ago....

"The president will challenge students to work hard, set educational goals, and take responsibility for their learning," Mr. Duncan says in his letter.

Of the activities, Mr. Duncan added: "These are ideas developed by and for teachers to help engage students and stimulate discussion on the importance of education in their lives."

Yawn, boring, and blah. Oh well, I think there's still enough in the earlier bits for people to get so worked up that they'll glaze right over this and the other useless fluff. After all, it's now acceptable to just arbitrarily take out all of our artifically created fear and anger on whoever we don't like regardless of who does (or doesn't) commit a "crime"!

[edit on 9/4/09 by redmage]

Check out the fox link and see if steam does'nt come out of your ears. When I went to school, we where taught that the government was created as a service to the people and good people served their country. So good people like the president and folks in the military serve their country which a valuable lesson twenty years ago. However this linked video shows hollywood celeberties saying school children should serve the president and named the current president. In my best opinion this is no different than saying serve the king as in ancient times was a reference to actual owbership of people. Those that disagreed where killed. Where we blind in Novembner to not see this coming. Hollyweird has gone to far with this one.



the link below

www.foxnews.com...=video

First, just a quick bit about the debate over whether Obama is the first to make a speech like this or not. PolitiFact claims that this is false, but that the actual claim came right from the Secretary of Education, Arne Duncan.

"The President will challenge students to work hard, set educational goals, and take responsibility for their learning," Duncan wrote, adding, "This is the first time an American president has spoken directly to the nation's school children about persisting and succeeding in school. We encourage you to use this historic moment to help your students get focused and begin the school year strong."

That is the text from PolitiFact that they say is false and add:

President George H.W. Bush gave an address to schools nationwide in 1991, from a junior high school in Washington, D.C. News reports from the time said the White House hoped that the address would be shown at schools nationwide, and Bush began his remarks by saying he was talking to "millions" of students "in classrooms all across the country."

This blog that I found while searching for the truth to this "first time or not" issue has the original text of the letter from Arne Duncan to schools. The letter said:

Dear Principal: In a recent interview with student reporter, Damon Weaver, President Obama announced that on September 8 — the first day of school for many children across America — he will deliver a national address directly to students on the importance of education. The President will challenge students to work hard, set educational goals, and take responsibility for their learning. He will also call for a shared responsibility and commitment on the part of students, parents and educators to ensure that every child in every school receives the best education possible so they can compete in the global economy for good jobs and live rewarding and productive lives as American citizens. Since taking office, the President has repeatedly focused on education, even as the country faces two wars, the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression and major challenges on issues like energy and health care. The President believes that education is a critical part of building a new foundation for the American economy. Educated people are more active civically and better informed on issues affecting their lives, their families and their futures. This is the first time an American president has spoken directly to the nation’s school children about persisting and succeeding in school. We encourage you to use this historic moment to help your students get focused and begin the school year strong. I encourage you, your teachers, and students to join me in watching the President deliver this address on Tuesday, September 8, 2009. It will be broadcast live on the White House website www.whitehouse.gov 12:00 noon eastern standard time. In advance of this address, we would like to share the following resources: a menu of classroom activities for students in grades preK-6 and for students in grades 7-12. These are ideas developed by and for teachers to help engage students and stimulate discussion on the importance of education in their lives. We are also staging a student video contest on education. Details of the video contest will be available on our website www.ed.gov in the coming weeks. On behalf of all Americans, I want to thank our educators who do society’s most important work by preparing our children for work and for life. No other task is more critical to our economic future and our social progress. I look forward to working with you in the months and years ahead to continue improving the quality of public education we provide all of our children. Sincerely, Arne Duncan

I saw that letter on the ed.gov site too, but it no longer says that. There is a "new and improved" letter on there now. You can see it at: www.ed.gov..., though it might change again, so go look quickly. I'd post it, but I'm running out of characters allowed.

As to keeping my 9 year old out on Tuesday, I don't know yet. My husband and I are discussing it for if the school will be showing the speech, but right now, we don't know. I can't get a single bit of information from the school. My daughter asked her teacher on Wednesday, but the teacher didn't know anything about it. I had to stop by the school office yesterday and decided that it was a good time to ask, since I was there, but the secretary didn't know anything about it either. Both said that they would get back to me on it by yesterday, but I haven't heard from either one. If I don't hear something one way or the other by this afternoon, I'll be calling my daughter out. She is 9, she is still very easily influenced and led. While she really enjoys asking questions about politics, she doesn't really understand it yet. Supposedly it is going to be broadcast on C-Span, too. So, if the president wants to talk to my kid, he can wait until I've DVR'd it first and can watch it with her.

Take care,
Cindi

Wow. People still fighting the good fight, I see... That's pretty great. Maybe this isn't a right wing site after all!

A few points:

THe Speech Will Be Released on MONDAY for Parent's Approval

The White House plans to release the speech online Monday so parents can read it. The president will deliver the speech at Wakefield High School in Arlington, Va.

Originally posted by inregardstoo
Check out the fox link and see if steam does'nt come out of your ears.

And that's just exactly what it's supposed to do! You fell for it, see. That video was released in January, but now, FOX is driving it home to scare everyone about this speech of Obama's.

Hopeless, I tell ya. :shk:

And I know most of you are probably far too young to even remember George HW Bush, but he DID give a speech to the kids.

GHW Bush Speech to Children

Parents actually let their children SPEAK to him!

And don't forget that GW Bush asked American Kids to Donate a Dollar to his WAR

Bush announced the creation of a fund for Afghan children. He called on all American kids to help the needy children of Afghanistan by donating a dollar. (If you'd like to join the effort, send a dollar to: America's Fund for Afghan Children, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, D.C., 20509-1600.)

Yep. While he was bombing their homes and killing their parents, he was asking OUR children to support the orphans he left behind. Isn't that special?

reply to post by redmage


Discussing this with you is like speaking to a child. Perhaps this is why you don't seem to get the point here.

The man made an attempt at propaganda and he was called out on it.
He had to restructure his plans because of it and they aren't showing the damned speech at my children's school. In fact, they aren't allowing it in the district at all.

So, whatever, dude.

Originally posted by tatersalad
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

you know johnny, listening to almost every post that you submit you sound very fascist. i have never seen you agree with anyone except if it was for obama. listen man stop bashing united states citizens. its getting old to say the least. your nazi style fascist words make me want to throw up a fur ball or two.

If I may cite the great Nazi elders, "póg mo thóin!"

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Hey now! No kissing of the back sides - Nazi or otherwise! Darn Irish Gaelic speaking Nazis.

Then again, my kid's school probably thinks that I'm the Nazi, wanting all kinds of information from them about this still.

Take care,
Cindi

[edit on 9/4/2009 by Glencairn]

Originally posted by TSer78
Deep within many of you, there is a racist that doesn't want a dominant Black man, greeting our children, not even to just say hello. As parents, and so forth we have control over the tv, it's fine when we have control over the television at home, however, many of you are frightened of what a Black man might say, even though he is one us, a parent of two girls.

You are frightened of the most transparent president in this country's history.

When will the rest of you come to terms that the world does revolve.

My father is a racist. He is against every race other than his own. I hate it and always have. It is ugly and I do not tolerate it. Schools work hard to snuff it out. I think we have come a long way since my parents were kids.

In my generation I have seen more uglyness, cruilty, and unfairness due to gender than race.

Your post is ignorant. It makes you sound like the big racist here.

Perhaps you should try harder to judge people by the content of their character.

I personally am still trying to find something I like about President Obamas character. I dont care that he is black. I wouldnt care if he was blue, red, or bright pink. I wouldnt care if he had a mohawk or a nose ring.

His number one most famed quality is his ability to manipulate people in order to get what he wants. He is down right briliant in what he does. He knows how to motivate people beyond anything I have ever seen. That can be a good quality I suppose, but I do not know what his final goal is. He has managed to do so much in such a short amount of time. He has taken hostile actions to very sensitive subjects that most people feel very passionatly about.

When a very skilled manipulator who is passionate for the things your are passionatly against wants to talk to your kids it is scary. Our reactions are perfectly natural. I am glad he understands that and is willing to post it for us to see on Monday.

[edit on 4-9-2009 by mrsdudara]

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by redmage

 

Perhaps this is why you don't seem to get the point here.

Again, I completely understand your point; however, it means nothing. The only point that's relevant is that responsible citizens don't blindly accept accusations without a preponderance of evidence.

Originally posted by JayinAR
The man made an attempt at propaganda and he was called out on it.

Yes, people such as yourself are repeatedly "calling him out" with this accusation. That point has been made over and over again, and is perfectly clear; however, again you've failed to provide any actual evidence to support the claim. An accusation on its own is not evidence.

The point that you continue to fail to grasp is that accusations mean exactly "squat" without any evidence to support them. If you want rational adults to accept your opinions, beliefs, and accusations as being viable, then you're going to need to acquire the ability and skills to provide supporting evidence for them. If/when you ever decide to acquire such skills I'd be more than happy to reconsider your stance. Untill then the accusations of a supposed attempt at propaganda are nothing more than useless fluff lacking anything resembling credibility.

[edit on 9/4/09 by redmage]

And, for whatever it's worth, here's what my kids school sent out to parents in an email today:

"I want you to know that I have considered the President’s upcoming address to school children on September 8, the demands of the school day, and the partnership between the School and you.

We will not broadcast the President's address to any full division of the school. If an Upper School teacher wishes to incorporate the address into themes or issues relevant to their course's subject matter, then we want to give the teacher the opportunity to use the address as a means to discuss course content."

I've been working and have missed at least 4 pages of this thread. Looks like it got all nasty. Sorry to see that

Later, kids........

Originally posted by mrsdudara
His number one most famed quality is his ability to manipulate people in order to get what he wants.

Why do you think he manipulates people? Do you think all the people who like him so much, voted for him and defend him have been manipulated?

He is down right briliant in what he does. He knows how to motivate people beyond anything I have ever seen. That can be a good quality I suppose, but I do not know what his final goal is.

Yes. Those can be good qualities. Brilliance and the ability to motivate people. But you say you don't know his final goal. What even leads you to think that his goals are bad or scary, though? Why would you suspect him so strongly? You just disagree with him on some things. I doubt you disagree with him on what he is going to talk to the kids about. Getting good grades, succeeding in school, setting goals, etc. Am I right?

He has managed to do so much in such a short amount of time. He has taken hostile actions to very sensitive subjects that most people feel very passionatly about.

He has done that because he was elected to do that. (I don't know what you mean about hostile actions, but I'm not sure it's important.) But he is doing just what he said he would do. He was voted in to do these things and I understand that you disagree with him on policy and might not want your kids to listen to him. That, I TOTALLY understand.

What I don't get is the "fear". The accusations of manipulation. The thought that his brilliance and motivating personality is actually something dark and scary.

When a very skilled manipulator who is passionate for the things your are passionatly against wants to talk to your kids it is scary.

Again, I'd like to know on what you base your judgment that he is a good manipulator. I think that's the crux of the fear. People think he's manipulated someone. Who has he manipulated?

Our reactions are perfectly natural.

Your reactions are perfectly natural given the way you feel. But not all reactions of people on this subject are natural. Or rational.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


your german is worse than your opions!
Ihr faschistischer neo nazistischer Blickpunkt ist benown zu mir nicht

lol i am a german ha ha

Originally posted by tatersalad
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

your german is worse than your opions!
Ihr faschistischer neo nazistischer Blickpunkt ist benown zu mir nicht

lol i am a german ha ha

Ducky...now when you catch up on your spelling, look up your history as well. Maybe a soupcon of PoliSci, just for breadth.

...and yes, that was Gaelic.