Gov. Arnold has gone mad.

Originally posted by mahtoosacks
my friend katie has been to jail a bunch of times. all for curfew restrictions from her probation.

i
half the people outside prison should be in there, especially if they drive minivans with handicapped plates. they are all potential murderers in disguise if you ask me.

[edit on 9/2/2009 by mahtoosacks]

Ok, that post was just so wrong but yet so funny.


I think arnie has the right idea. Minor stuff people need to let go. We just have way to many people incarcarated.

I feel so bad for california. Wildfires, and now a hurricane.

I am surprised Arnie hasn't high tailed it back to Austria with a "forget this". And I wouldn't blame him.

It is like 7 biblical plauges out there: criminals, hurricanes, fires, mudslides, Jon Voight, the economy, adn what else?

[edit on 2-9-2009 by nixie_nox]

This only furthers the argument of legalization of various drugs (marijuana mainly).

SO many people out of jail. All of those people with jobs. All of that tax money not going to them, but taken from them. More freedom of choice.

Of course, with a few basic laws (no smoking in public, so stinking up the neighborhood, etc).

This is coming from a non-smoker of everything.

I can not believe how there are so many stupid (IMO of course) people against this.

It'll be people like graffiti artists, small crimes.

If someone gets caught who is a graffiti artist and they are city wide (all over the city) they could get 10 years in jail if the court wanted it.

It'll be people like that, why do people think all prisoners are hardened child rapists? I hate how people live in tiny bubbles, unable to comprehend the difference between a charge of possession of marijuana and a murdurer.

America has 5% of the worlds population and 25% of the worlds prisoners.

Of people in our prisons when you break it down less than 20% of our prison population actually consists of serious violent offenders. The number can be dropped if you discount first offenders some of whom simply had altercations one time in their life. Many of These are people who had altercations via circumstance or mistakes they may have made and there is actually no reason or evidence they would commit further crime.

Those of you advocating that some swarm of murders would be let loose are simply buying into the hype that the world is filled with people you need to fear, allowing them to keep control of the population by caging anyone who would would have the kind of temperament to physically resist.

A large portion of violent offender aren't doing time for having a fight, opening a mouth or whatever the crime actually was

But rather for resisting arrest

Apparently a few years tacked on in many cases is okay... for not wanting to be docile while you are cuffed tazered and hauled to a cage like a scared dog going to be Euthanized. I find it very sad indeed, that some people offer that castration of the male population is a good thing.

You fear men who are capable of aggression

But all men who are, are effectively employed in the army, police force or locked in cages. So who exactly will defend you from the people who control those forces? Who in your population is left that hasn't been castrated?

Aggression was evolved for a reason, your effectively advocating the removal of all Alpha Males from free society when you are convinced to fear any guy who might be capable of having a temper and allow them to go to jail for lengthy periods.

In time, you will wish those men hadn't been removed from society. Women will wish it, men will wish it when there is no one around willing or able to defend you from forces far more malevolent.

I'd guesstimate maybe 10% of the prison population is chronic violent offenders, molesters, rapists, killers who are a genuine threat to society.

The rest of the population of violent offenders were simply guys who had emotional moments with causation involved or in many cases simply stood up for themselves.

I'd be far more afraid of the violent men who were intentional in taking violent legal positions in life for pay at the hands of tptb, then the members of your community that sometimes enter the domain of "boys will be boys"

It is a gross and harsh tactic to hold up every person who took a punch in the face or every minor crime and use it to scare us into turning on each other, fights happen, people become aggressive. On a surface level it would seem as if we are building a peaceful society by elimination of all violent behavior. But in the end it's a society ruled by the most violent and dastardly of all and it will come back to haunt the sheep

You see... the sheep never like the Herd Dogs, it's easy to convince you to fear them. But the reality is it's the Wolves that want the Herd Dogs gone

Originally posted by LiquidLight
I highly doubt they will be releasing child molesters and murderers. They will most likely release people being held on minor drug charges and other insignificant offenses that we like to jail people for.

Now, you and I both know that they will release murderers, thieves, and child molesters before they'd release someone jailed because a pot seed was found stuck to one of the tires of their car.

reply to post by mopusvindictus



I agree with a great deal of what you say .

but with one added thought.

people in prison are failures .

they failed to find a legal way of living out side of crime .
or failed in avoiding being seen as crimnal
they failed to do their crime of choice with out getting caught .
or failed in being blaimed for the crime
they failed to avoid being arrested ,and presented in court .
or failed to avoid going to court for something not done .
they failed to disprove their involvment in their crime of choice.
or failed in being blaimed for a crime of another .

and after all this, still they failed to stay out of prison .

no person arrived in prison with a single failure .
these people have a pattern of failures which they will bring with them upon release , and grant to the rest of those they come in contact with .

drug laws are based on the genaral welfare clause of the constitution .
if the genaral welfare of the state of california is in the release of these people... I ask

when was it in any ones best intrest that they be held?

if it is good now , why was it good to have them locked away in the first place!

how much money will the state of california need to lose befor it is good to have a viable and effective death penilty .

and when will there be a loss of money equal to honesty in law .
where personal responciblity is assumed , and drugs are legal .

social engineering is the product of control freaks who have no person beleif in the citizens right to self intrest , person uniqueness , and greatness .

this is the best exsample .

when the money runs out... they fall back on freedom as the answer .rr

reply to post by Skyfloating


How much is it going to cost the state of California to
put theses criminals right back in prison.

YEA! Gov. Arnold im sure knows what he doing!

Hopefully, theres no sex offenders who like to keep children
in there back yards. :

Cool. So maybe the guy who got his third strike when he stole a fifty cent donut will finally get his freedom.

Originally posted by readerone
people in prison are failures .

There are far more people who are failures than are in prison. However, no one should ever be penalized for being a failure.

Besides, the vast majority of people in prison didn't come from loving families, or had supportive communities, or had lives full of opportunities to throw away. They only failed because their families, their communities, and society failed them.

According to the California Department of Corrections, 52% of California prisoners function below a seventh-grade reading level, making them functionally illiterate. As of the 1989 Prisoner Literacy Act, 60% of those prisoners can achieve at least a ninth-grade reading level while incarcerated, and many go on to gain their G.E.D.s. Because of this program, Californian inmates are 29% less likely, when compared to inmates of other states, to be repeat offenders.

79% of women and 66% of men in California prisons are parents. Not only does this have negative behavioral impacts upon the children of incarcerated parents, but increases the likelihood of the abuse of alcohol or drugs, delinquency and truancy, but 52% of children whose parent are incarcerated suffer from at least one major psychological disturbance making it difficult to succeed in school. Over 33% of the children were enrolled in special education classes because of emotional issues, and another 33% had repeated a grade. Many of these children exhibited aggressive and violent behavior, making it "…unlikely that they will become successful adults without early intervention by social service agencies."

Worse yet, this creates a vicious cycle of inter-generational incarceration. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, 47% of inmates in state prisons have a parent who has also been incarcerated, and half of all juveniles in custody have a father, or mother who has been in jail or prison.

According to the Justice Department's Bureau of Justice Statistics, almost 50% of the women and 10% of the men in prisons were physically or sexually abused before their imprisonment. Around 33% of the women in prison had been raped before their incarceration. Also, more than a third of women in prison had been abused as children, as were about 14% of male inmates. Prisoners who had spent part of their childhoods in foster care, the rate of abuse was even higher. 44% percent of male prisoners and 87% percent of female prisoners who had spent the majority of their childhood in foster care or institutions reported either physical or sexual abuse.

The link between prior abuse and violent crime is painfully obvious. Among male inmates, 76% convicted of a violent offense had experienced abuse. Among female violent offenders, 45% were previously abused.

So, despite the crimes committed, we see that the most common statistics of criminals in the penal system of California are:

1.) Victims of physical and sexual abuse by parent and foster parents
2.) Victims of rape
3.) The uneducated and functionally illiterate
4.) Children of incarcerated parents who become inter-generational prisoners.

No matter what these criminals have done, it's difficult to put the blame entirely on them for the horrible things that had been done to them as children. It doesn't excuse their actions, but it certainly is not entirely their cross to bear by themselves either.

At some point the cycle has to stop.

If children of incarcerated parents are so likely to grow up and go to prison themselves, then give more restrictive Probation, or House Arrest to non-violent offenders who have young children.

If childhood victims of abuse and sexual assault, or those who are raped as adults are significantly more likely to be incarcerated or commit violent crimes, then the system has to change to stop treating them like criminals when they were victimized and get them the emotional and psychological help they need after their trauma before they turn to violent crime.

If the uneducated and functionally illiterate are the majority of inmates, and education while in prison reduces the occurrence of repeat offenders then doesn't it stand to reason that if you educate them *BEFORE* they turn to a life of crime they'll be equally less likely to ever run afoul of the law at all?

At some point society needs to get a grip and recognize that it is partially to blame for the majority of criminals behind bars in this nation. These are criminals that have turned to a life of crime because of circumstance, not because they were necessarily bad people. These crimes could have been avoided if society had been more proactive in the long-term prevention of crime through education and social programs which would have undoubtedly been cheaper than the alternative of incarceration later down the road.


[edit on 4-9-2009 by fraterormus]

reply to post by readerone


I can't disagree that a large portion of the prison population could be described as individuals that are failures.

But statistically there will be always be a lower half... if half the world is doing better than you, then you are a failure. This however is not a crime.

When we do the Math and look at incarceration, the cost of prison gaurds, police efforts in non violent crimes or even adding in violent crimes in which no one got hut,the guy who threw a plant across his house in frustration,the dummy who had a bar fight... Minor non orchestrated thefts, shoplifters, petty criminals

The unfortunate, the failures in life, the people who many of which simply had no damn luck at all...

when you add it up, police, prison stays, guards, building of facilities, food

and then factor in loss of productivity those peoplegiven a chance might of had....

The cost for these prisoners is 5x what it would cost to give

subsidized rent

No questions asked food stamps

discounted utilities

and tuition assistance.

We are a harsh,harsh society on the poor, we scream about our taxes, we scream about morals we want everyone to hold to, no one gets a free ride...

In most aspects, we are a light year beyond Islam in social liberality and human decency... but in regards to POVERTY, FAILURE, NEED we live as much in the 13th century as those we would say we are opposed to.

It costs less to uplift by far than it does to imprison

We spend a Trillion on Army's to kill every year

We give away enough food to other nations to feed every American citizen in the basics...

But when a person steals to feed children we throw the book at them...

We are of ZERO compassion for "failure" as you put it and sadly in these times particularly anyone can reach failure, you, me anyone...

Ifwe can feed half of Africa for free, we can see that our own people Eat even if they are "failures"

It is an air of superiority... to tell your own brother that because this is AMERICA if he has a hard time he is a "failure" and lock that person away for doing what they had to do.

Even in offering us Health care it comes with the doing away of the capacity to have your own insurance if you choose perhaps, our govt uses it as an excuse to take control.

Did you know only 3% of the social services budget actually amounts to a welfare check?

And why are drugs illegal and aside from Marijuna how do they even get here? Without conspiracy against the people from within our own govt?

We can invade Iraq, build a missile defense system, build 30,000 nukes over a few decades, sit 11 Carrier Battle groups around the world, invade 2 nations at once, supply 1/3 of the worlds food, consume more of everything practically than any other nation in the world as a people, possess the capacity via Nuclear for limitless energy, have vast farmlands, almost unlimited water when you factor in Canada, have a nation wide skilled workforce.... a 4 Trillion per year National budget Hundreds of citizens worth BILLIONS. the capacity to build any number of structures... The most police of any nation in the world, the most prisons in the world, the worlds largest hospital system, the worlds largest educational system.

And with all that...

We can't get past helping out our own "failures"

We have to be so greedy that doctors don't and won't treat the poor?

We have Trillion acres of protected land... but no housing for the indigent?


Do we really need to have an "underclass" the capacity to uplift isn't there? We will be destroyed without 500 Million dollars yearly into secret Black Budget weapons programs?

The people of the third world multiply endlessly and we give away tonnage of food... but can't feed the ghetto?

And ROFL... we can maintain a war on 2 fronts endlessly, be in preparation to handle the opening of 2 more fronts, Obama is building another Army of One Million People to defend the homeland... and we pay for a war on drugs half of which amounts to busting people for Marijuana... a War on our own people...

Is it that hard to imagine

1/5th of that money going into helping Americans instead of calling them failures? Locking them away so we don't have to look at or deal with them at 5x the cost of dealing with them?


Why are we even in need of a Trillion yearly on defense... because we are the only nation on Earth capable of projecting power and invading across vast oceans?

Who is our border enemy? who is going to attack us...if we butt out of International affairs? Canada? Ay?

Our policies are Deviant and inhumane and revolve on fear and control

Most of these people in jail aren't "BAD" people

I'm sorry but logic dictates...

To eliminate most crime and theft you eliminate poverty

To eliminate socially destructive behavior you Increase education

To eliminate the cycle of social suffering you eliminate the fear of homelessness

To increase quality of life you improve health care and sanitation

and I am a republican... or was...

So I am not a bleeding heart liberal

But this is ridiculous already, people in cages doesn't fix anything and it costs too much money.

What no one wants to deal with and why the govt fears a revolution is that a police state MANDATES it... The probelm with prisons is, the prisoners get out and they have no options, it follows you forever in the modern age... when you become a society without compassion you guarantee you will reap what you sow... we areat 30 Million ex cons and counting on our streets thanks to this system...

30 Million ex cons with records on digital and no options for a future mostly for stupid reasons...

The Us army is only 1.5 Million people

The worlds armies combined aren't 30 million strong

The failures of today.... are the Revolutions of tomorrow.

I think it very wise for most of us, to preach compassion before it is too late, the disenfranchised are numerous and ever present, it is only a matter of time now before America fails...

And when that happens, all the gates will open and that will include those people who never should have gotten out...

The problem with prisons also is... when the money fails and the system fails everyone goes free... and what problems they had were simply never faced and dealt with and these will be very mad people indeed, especially the ones that didn't deserve years among murders to become just like them...

All i'm saying is

Leniency, Compassion, Understanding, Helping...

These are the traits that build a stable society

Vengeance, Punishment, Hardship and Greed are not

There is a disaster looming... Arnold has never been a stupid man.

One of the biggest problems we have as a society is that as a people be it us the people or our leaders, we lack a sense of historical thinking, we live for the day, we are a NOW society.

We do not bother to address when we encourage divorce and abortion, what happens when there is no youth population to pay for social security and health care.

We do not think about when we find the "fast" solution of locking people in jail, what happens in 30 years when 30-40-50 million people have criminal records and can not function when BACK in society

We don't think about what happens when we spend Trillions on invasions for short term financial gain now and create a philosophical attitude that calls HUMAN BEINGS... failures rather than uplifts people...

But as the future races towards us and we face multiple crisis from making short term solutions our priority, we will all learn the hard way that what we do to ohers today affects our tomorrow...

No one forgets our wars,

Our prisoners will not have any recourse but to turn to violence to have lives again...

The elderly wont go away

The few children we have now for reasons of greed will be vastly out numbered

America is essentially doomed without a major intervention, not of money but philosophy and thinking, we must do away with all of this short term thinking

Or we will be nothing more than a minor foot note as civilizations go in the history books...

If locking people in prison worked as a solution.. You'd see this in places like France or Even China a Nation we call "Totalitarian" but they have far less people in jail than us with 1/5th of the population...

Because they have stood the test of time... and Know a Nation falls with these practices, that it's fall is inevitable if you imprison too many people.

We are philosophically the laughing stock in the corridors of power around the world...as we "THINK" our technology will change the human element and allow us to get away with what we are doing to our own society...

It can't possibly work...

well he did say this though:


What is best in life?



edit: As Johnny Depp said in the movie Blow "I went in with a bachelors degree in marijuana, and I came out with a Phd in coc aine."

is this what we want to teach small time criminals? to become masterful criminals?

[edit on 9/4/2009 by mahtoosacks]

On this subject I would have to comment in favor of Arnold. I don't live in California but in my opinion, although release of these prisioners may be a little scary, I think if he takes proper action to only release non-violent prisioners, and maybe offer some form of rehabilitation, I think he is actually helping those people. With the amount of money that comes from OUR pockets to support the prision system, the release of a few people who don't deserve to be there will not only help economically, it could help those people to not BECOME violent offenders. I totally agree with one of the other posters who implied that prision is more the creator of criminals than it is a rehabilitator. Go Arnold!!

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
America has 5% of the worlds population and 25% of the worlds prisoners.

Interestingly enough, the US is the only place where there is a "for profit" prison system. The objective of private companies is to maximize profits. If you are in the business of supplying prisons, the more prisoners, the more profit they make (just make sure you don't spend a lot on them so those margins stay nice and fat). And of course, nice little marketing campaigns and donations to those politicos who are "tough on crime" and support for aggressive policing make for a constant stream of revenue... err sorry... I mean prisoners.

There are some things that inherently should not be run on a for profit basis since the social objectives and corporate objectives of those providing the services are orthogonal. Consider Blackwater and Haliburton.

[edit on 4-9-2009 by metamagic]

reply to post by metamagic


i think you nailed it!

Did you know that police stations sell their drugs they confiscate back to the government for street value?

since when do the people who protect and serve supposed to act as state revenue collectors.

i think thats a big problem too.

I'm all for Arnold to release the prisoners and in fact he probably needs to release a whole lot more prisoners than that. Also... other states should do the same thing.

Does anyone realized what it costs to keep each prisoner in prison? I think it costs somewhere around $50,000 per prisoner to keep them in prison and most of them commited the same crime that most other people commit but never get caught.

The laws need to be changed and imprisonment needs to be done away with except as an interim to the electric chair or gas chamber for the worst of criminals only.

People are people, they are not animals. Even animals are not held in cages for years.

This is a great idea this just shows the american public they can do a crime and then be set free; at least in california.
I bet they will have the set free prisioners on house arrest or something.
I know there are cases where people are framed or in there for petty reasons those people should be set free.
What about the shoplifter who did just once but then was released and realized:"hey I can do this again. California will just set me free because they can't afford to keep me."
This just sends the wrong message. I hope only those who deserve to be out or those who are in there for non-voilent crimes are released.
The governator needs to issue a statement about which types of prisoners were released and why.
It would be a shame for California to suddenly be overrun with criminals simply because they can't afford to keep them. Imagine all the small time criminals here about this and then decide to go live in California.
I bet the crime rate will rise; even among people who typically do not commit crimes.
If you heard this and you could barely afford food on your table wouldn't you be tempted to steal some knowing this?

I think it sends the wrong message to people.

Prisoners don't need cable t.v.
They have a lot of things in jail, that they didn't have outside.

The smaller pettier crimes are directly linked to the larger ones, in a vast majority of situations.

The random serial killer/rapist/may not have any links to a smaller "drug runner" or pety property crimes etc.. But they have to remember, the smaller property crimes add up costing astronomical amounts to insurance companies, consumers etc.

Obviously, the considerable savings at the start are significant for the short term. But when everything settles back ...then what. No punishment breaking the laws?

Arnold for Prez.
He could stop the NWO.

reply to post by Demoncreeper


how could he stop the nwo?

just like this!




hahaha omg good stuff.

reply to post by Demoncreeper


Arnold could never be president thank goodness; he was not born in the USA. He should back to the terminator movies.

My sister lives in california and she wants to leave so bad because the economy is horrible out there. Prices are sky high and the rich and/or famous people act like they own LA or something.

Seriouly over $1,000/month for a one bedroom apartment! Who the heck would want to live here besides criminals who can sell enough crack in a day to pay rent!

[edit on 4-9-2009 by dreamseeker]