Like it or not, all 50 States must now recognize Gay Marriages!

Originally posted by Death_Kron

Originally posted by Xtrozero
Well homosexuals are a minority that practice a behavior... there are endless other types of behaviors too that other minority groups practice. Why do we try to separate one minority behavior from all the others?

That is the big question here.

I understand what your trying to say here as I've used that sort of argument in my debates about homosexuality before.

Obviously the big difference is that gays, on their own, are not hurting anybody.

Whereas rapists, peadophiles, cannibals obviously are.

Not having a go at you because I don't like homosexuality either but just thought I'd point that out.

People who commit suicide aren't hurting anyone else either but it's still not something many are going tgo agree is the right thing to do.

[sarcasm]
Well, I know that I have trouble facing every day knowing there is some bunch of people in Vermont who are not exactly like me, yet have the same legal rights I do!
[/sarcasm]

Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow
By the same standard, why do two girls who want to get married care so badly that the heterosexual community acknowledge their relationship?

They don't. They just care that they have the same protection under law that the heterosexual community has.

If their relationship is based on the idea that they love each other and wish to spend their lives together then why do they care if it is called a marriage or a civil union?

Only in that if their marriage has a different name under law, then it has a different standing under law, and it will be far too easy to enact laws that say "Civil unions have the same legal rights as Marriages except for blah blah blah.

Why do they wish to march in parades. There are no group of heterosexuals demanding a group of people who prefer missionary position sex be allowed to march.

Maybe because gay people in the US are currently not afforded the same protection under law, guaranteed by the Constitution as heterosexual people have.

And why are the homosexuals, who have experienced the 'horrors' of discrimination as regards the legitimizing of their relationships not out supporting people who wish to engage in sex with or even marry farm animals?

*sigh* Why is it that people opposed to acknowledging the Constitutionally guaranteed rights of all US citizens are so obsessed with marrying farm animals and cars? Does it ever occur to such people that the legal aspect of marriage is a contract, and one of the basic tenets of a contract is that all parties enter into the contract of their own free will and are competent to understand what that means, and as far as we know, farm animals and cars are not capable of making that choice?


Regarding the various posts in this thread about the maintenance of tradition around marriage - The United States is a country that disposes of traditions that are harmful or of no use.

For centuries, it had been traditional that children were treated as little better than animals, or chattel. That tradition has been dropped in the US.

It was traditional that women spent their lives in the home, serving "their men", and that women did not work outside the home, own property or vote. All of those traditions have been dropped.

It was traditional that people that worked in office environments always wore white shirts, dark slacks and a tie. That has been dropped.

It was traditional that black people did not own property, and in fact were property. Those traditions have been dropped.

It was traditional women never wore pants, smoked or drank alcohol. Those traditions have been dropped.

It was traditional that in a man-woman marriage, it was always the woman who stayed home and raised children and the man went out and worked. Those traditions have been dropped.

The United States has a substantial history, of which we can be proud, of dropping traditions that are of no value.

It is time to drop the tradition that a marriage can only be between one man and one woman. Past time.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
Proper, no. Any of your business? Also, no. Just like if your neighbors like to do the slap and tickle with shackles and chains. Your approval is not necessary. It's none of your business.

You are right it is none of my business...well until it is officially recognized by the government as totally acceptable within our laws, customs and traditions.

You see that is the point...

You are exactly right Xtrozero, and if we allow gays to become a class distinction, one predicated on sexual behavior, then we're likely to have such a distinction put on our drivers license SEX: Male, Height: 6'2 Weight: 186lbs, Orientation: Likes Females and threesomes. etc.

There should be marriage recognition parity. So, states that do allow homosexual marriages should stop recognizing hetero marriages from any state that will not recognize their marriages.

Originally posted by oneclickaway
By whom? One can only assume by heterosexuals as they are in the majority…so what is your point?

Read your Bible oneclick you'll find Jesus was put to death while not guilty of any crimes but speaking the truth and THAT is the point.

It is the obviously hateful content and contempt and disparagement that elicits a response. Christians cannot call for the death or murder of people, tell them they will rot in hell, that they are a disgrace, abnormal, unnatural, call them names and condemn their very existence…and then cry that they have been called bigots and play the victim. Keep your views to yourself if you do not wish for a response.

If I found your ignorance tooo hot to handle oneclick, I wouldn't be here and secondly as usual and like you had done in the last thread I kept having to correct you in, READ MY POST, you just provede my point, All I was doing was preparing them for the very reaction you so predictably gave

You are not God, so do not speak for a power so big you cannot contemplate it. It may be the hating Christians that have been given up on.

As if you gave a rats ass about anything about God, since you don't and all you do is mock him, I think it's safe to say, one doesn't have to BE god to repeat what God has said

I hate to break it to you but this is not a Christian debating site. Maybe you are in the wrong place.

Are you saying Christians can't post here oneclick?

Any dangers the country is facing is because of the corrupt, greedy, evil, self obsession and lack of any emotional feeling let alone intelligence of the government and ruling elite….most of whom must be heterosexual.

Gee one click Ill bet they are all human too!

I would love to see a higher standard of behaviour from a Christian. However, on the whole, I mainly see condemning nonsense and foaming at the mouth because they are disagreed with. I will ‘say it like it is’. A lot of Christians need to go pray, as their behaviour is so far from that of Jesus, that it makes a mockery of quoting and following the teachings. It is hateful, controlling and lacking in any empathy or intelligent understanding.

You don't even TRY to be one oneclcick and endorse the very behaviors That is called an abomination in the bible so spare me the lessons and suggestions to follow your lead when you can't get off the starting block. If you were a Christian, you'd be admiting they are wrong for wanting such legislation, wromg for wanting it taught in public schools, wrong for wanting to make it legal to have sex in public restrooms, wrong for wanting to lower age of consent laws, wrong for wanting to decriminalize sex crimes, wrong for so many reasons that one doesn't have to be a Chritsian to appreciate how wrong gays and the gay lobby is for many of the things they want to accomplish.

So…duh….having pastors declaring that God condemns gays and that they should be killed could never promote violence towards gay people? There is your evidence. If you cannot see that, then it goes back to my argument of lack of emotional or any kind of intelligence.
Everyone in this world should have equal rights, equal laws, equal taxes, equal protection.

One click is bringing up the thread about a pastor saying all gays should be killed yet when I have asked him in that thread to show me the exact quote where this pastor says he is fixing to kill him some homosexuals, he failed to find it. I have asked him to show me where in that pastors remarks was he suggesting anyone else take up a rope and lynch a homosexual for him and again he has failed. One Click, albeit true that pastor is angry yelling acting like a nut but what you are doing is called being a liar.

You are fully aware that the pastor makes no such statment because i made you aware of it yet you come in here talking about people spewing ignorance and lies and can't see the hypocrisy in your own actions.

"Homosexuals" believe that “marriage” can mean something as suitable a receptacle for the male seed as the womb; that the rectum a filthy smelly disease prone orifice of a fruitless union should be given the same dignity of that which produces human life.

You seem to have an obsessive interest in the male anus and one specific homosexual act. What is interesting is that I doubt any homosexual gives any thought to heterosexual sex even though they are bombarded with those images from the moment of birth. Interesting isn’t it?

Is that your wishful thinking one click? Sorry I'm not your type but you're right about the second part and that would be the part that makes your assertion about my being obsessed with the male anus put into its proper perspective wouldn't you say. I mean afterall oneclcik, what I am talking about is Gays obsession with it too.

Also if you see marriage as purely about the physical act then I pity you. Marriage in its purest form is about the union of two people in a commitment to each other, in a spiritual sense, which also encompasses the sexual act as an outward expression of that love. Many heterosexuals have children accidentally, or without any thought at all, so it becomes merely an act of nature rather than some spiritual act of superiority.

No sorry , one click marriage is about more than couples, it is about the perpetuation of family! Interesting the rest of that "stuff" you talk about is predicated on spirtitual things yet only when its convenient to say

Homosexuals are forced to pay for those children through taxes, whilst being shunned from the taxing society and told that they are not meant to have children, Fine, recompense them all then. Homosexuals, and indeed everyone, deserves their fair share of tax breaks.

Everyone benefits from children oneclick because they become TAX PAYERS. so if you don't want to help pay for them then maybe you shouldn't get to enjoy the benefits like fire, police, public utilities they eventually help pay for eh? Again youre argument is weak and illogically based on self serving ideals

There you go again with the contempt for humanity and the lack of any intelligence…just hatred and vile smugness….everything that Jesus warned about not being.

I was talking about a quote made by Jerry fallwell and how people mocked him for it oneclick and the message he gave was a direct quote from the scriptures. I don't think Jesus would have any problem with that but Katrina could be considered an act of God. I know many insurance policies there used those very words in the legalese of the homeowners insurance many of them had.

When I said

Disease spreading among gays like a plague where aids and mrsa are spread 80-90 % among gays in America

You said

That statement is just so extraordinarily ignorant that I cannot be bothered to counter it.

You can't counter it for the same reason you couldn't here in the last thread I proved it oneclick. Do I have to show it again? The CDC statistics on both mrsa and aids in this country? Call my bluff Oneclick, Ill be more than happy to furnish the truth to you again .

Well, as a third of heterosexuals have ‘sex with their asses’ then in your strange thinking it must be the fault of heterosexuals.

I don't know many heterosexual monogamous married males that can enjoy anal sex with another mans penis spilling his seed in his rectum onclick. There is a big difference between that and some guys wife playing kink mistress with a strap on. Even if that was how the majority of heterosexual men and woman have sex, ya know what?

That wouldn't be the reason they would give why they should be married

If there is a God and that is true, why keep foaming at the mouth. Stop talking of love as you know not what that is. It is not your place to decree anyone’s relationship with a God. That is between the person and their God and it is none of your business. Your relationship with God is your business too. So if you feel gay people will burn in eternal torment…fine. You may be in for a shock though and find that your behaviour in hating and denigrating people has backfired on you. So why not just mind your own business,

According to the constitution you are telling me I don't have a right to freedom of religious expression oneclick and again, I understand why you think saying I hate gays is somehow going to be effective shutting me up while I am supposed to stand here and watch people promote depravity and blame the religious for their not having equal rights? Naaah don't work that way. You tell me to mind my own business but it was YOU who responded to my post so forgive me returning the favor and correcting your flawed and illogical arguments for same sex marriage.

stop worrying and thinking about male to male anal sex, and just attempt to live as Jesus exampled and taught

I am sharing with you what he taught oneclick but what do you care what he taught?

reply to post by SevenThunders

. I fear that we are next. We may decide right or wrong based on our flawed human wisdom, but there is a higher moral standard laid down by the hand of God.

What could possibly be more immoral than demanding that your son kill his brothers' son for misbehaving ?

The morals of your god have a tendency to be repugnant some people act similarly many of us don't.

Human wisdom would dictate that if something doesn't work you throw it in the bin and start again. Your religions have had several thousand years to prove their case and have failed.
They simply don't work and it's time to bin your indolent god is dead.

If you don't like the idea of homosexuals or their marriage, -

Turn the other cheek brother

reply to post by open_eyeballs


No offense taken. In fact, it would be very hard to be offended by simple questions like those posed. Anyway, let me address them.

The direction the threads take are more do to those who enter them then the OP itself. This thread, for instance, started with legal and civil oriented ideals. Then came the Bible thumping Faux Christians. You know, the ones who use the Bible to justify their prejudices and hatred. A True Christian would not harbor such negativity, and tries to live a 'Christ-like' life. Thus instead of discussing the central core idea of equal civil rights in a secular society, the debate became about religious morals and values again. I'm assuming that these Faux Christians are not familiar with the Constitution nor the ideals of those who created it. To them, this is a Christian Nation, under God, and there is no place for those who do not espouse those same morals and values. They are neither Patriots nor are they True Americans either.

As to my upbringing, yes I was brought up a Christian and attended a Christian School. I was also taught that homosexuality was a 'sin', and spent years denying who I really was, thinking it was a phase and I would grow out of it. I even got married and started a family, thinking this is what I was supposed to do. After my divorce (which had nothing to do with my suppressed sexuality, but my ex-wive's inability to not sleep around), I finally began to experiment with my true sexuality, but did suffer from a great deal of guilt and shame. Not due to any religious reasons, but because of the stigma placed upon such behavior by society at large. The fear of losing friends and loved ones if they knew the truth. But that is ancient history. I am now an open book, and anyone who has a problem with any of my beliefs or actions can just kiss my bum.

Why this subject matter? Well, I would have the same opinion even if I was a breeder. I am a civil libertarian and an American patriot, and not only understand the principles of the Constitution, but am a rabid defender of those principles, even though this country has yet to live up to them. I am also a deeply spiritual individual who believes that in the end, The Divine welcomes ALL of It's children home, no matter what they have done or believed while in this limited corporeal human form. Does some Karma need to be worked off before rejoining The Divine? Sure, but not for silly crap like being gay, but for harboring and expressing negativity, such as hate and prejudice, as these are not of The Divine.

Oh, yeah, and I just happen to be gay. It certainly does not define me!

[edit on 4-9-2009 by JaxonRoberts]

Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow
reply to post by breakingdradles

 

By the same standard, why do two girls who want to get married care so badly that the heterosexual community acknowledge their relationship?
If their relationship is based on the idea that they love each other and wish to spend their lives together then why do they care if it is called a marriage or a civil union?
Why do they wish to march in parades. There are no group of heterosexuals demanding a group of people who prefer missionary position sex be allowed to march.
And why are the homosexuals, who have experienced the 'horrors' of discrimination as regards the legitimizing of their relationships not out supporting people who wish to engage in sex with or even marry farm animals?
Just curious

Do you not understand the difference between consenting adults and those who cannot give consent??? The 'farm animals' argument is just a straw man. It is not based in logic, and has no place in this debate. It is like saying gay marriage will lead to public masterbation, which is just ludicrious.

As to why homosexuals want to be able to get married, let's look at what advantages civil marriage holds:

According to a report given to the Office of the General Counsel of the U.S. General Accounting Office, here are a few of the 1,138 benefits the United States government provides to legally married couples:

Access to Military Stores
Assumption of Spouse’s Pension
Bereavement Leave
Immigration
Insurance Breaks
Medical Decisions on Behalf of Partner
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Social Security Survivor Benefits
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Tax Breaks
Veteran’s Discounts
Visitation of Partner in Hospital or Prison

Here are a few of the state level benefits within the United States:

Assumption of Spouse’s Pension
Automatic Inheritance
Automatic Housing Lease Transfer
Bereavement Leave
Burial Determination
Child Custody
Crime Victim’s Recovery Benefits
Divorce Protections
Domestic Violence Protection
Exemption from Property Tax on Partner’s Death
Immunity from Testifying Against Spouse
Insurance Breaks
Joint Adoption and Foster Care
Joint Bankruptcy
Joint Parenting (Insurance Coverage, School Records)
Medical Decisions on Behalf of Partner
Certain Property Rights
Reduced Rate Memberships
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Visitation of Partner’s Children
Visitation of Partner in Hospital or Prison
Wrongful Death (Loss of Consort) Benefits

Source.

It matters not whether or not the 'heterosexual community' cares to acknowledge our relationships anymore than it matters to non-Catholics that the Catholic Church does not acknowledge their marriages. It is about equality and civil protections, not social acceptance, which almost all are missing.

To those who keep arguing that 'the damn gubermint don't have no business in our marriages', I ask you this. Let's say you are married and your spouse's family just hates you. Now let's say that your spouse gets very sick or critically injured and can no longer make decisions for themselves. Do you want the in-laws to have the power to swoop in, deny you visitation rights, deny you the right to make medical decisions for your spouse's care, take half of the stuff you and your spouse own, and forbid you to even attend your spouse's funeral because you do not have the protections provided by 'the damn gubermint'? Happens to gay people everyday. I know, I've seen it firsthand. Now do you see why we want equality?

[edit on 4-9-2009 by JaxonRoberts]

reply to post by Stylez

If you were a Christian, you'd be admiting they are wrong for wanting such legislation, wromg for wanting it taught in public schools, wrong for wanting to make it legal to have sex in public restrooms, wrong for wanting to lower age of consent laws, wrong for wanting to decriminalize sex crimes, wrong for so many reasons that one doesn't have to be a Chritsian to appreciate how wrong gays and the gay lobby is for many of the things they want to accomplish.

I am a Christian. I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, I love and hold him dear to my heart. I believe he died on the cross for my terrible sins, and he healed my broken soul.

I have made myself quite clear on this that I am a follower of Jesus the Christ, the Messiah. I am not a Jew, nor am I a follower of Paul of Tarsus. I see the Gospels as Truth, and they are our instruction for living a righteous life. Most Christians prefer to select cafeteria style from the Jewish Law (as seen in the Hebrew Bible) and the writings of Paul, and would be horrified if themselves subjected tho the whole of it.

No pepperoni and cheese pizza, no women in church, no haircuts for the hair above the ears, no shrimp, crab, Sabbath on Fri/Saturday, no work at all on the Sabbath, etc. These are things most Christians set aside in the cafeteria Bible they profess to follow.

The really cool thing, though, is that Jesus told us what we needed to do in the 25th chapter of Matthew and we'd be the sheep among the goats. Take care of the poor, the sick, the orphans...these are our commandments. Those who choose not to follow them will be those claiming they know him while he will say: I know you not.

I think we need to be careful when speaking for Jesus when he was quite eloquent and able to speak for himself. In his three years of ministry we are left with the admonition to love our enemies, to care for the poor, to turn from material desires and turn to spiritual desires, to love our neighbor, to forgive debts, to forgive sins...

As Christians you and I need to worry about the beam in our own eye before we judge and condemn our brother. I'm sure between the two of us we have enough sins that we are asking others to overlook that we needn't worry about the potential sins of others.

You claim to be a Christian, so I ask you with all the love of Christ I have in my heart, to not give our Lord a bad name, and to take this same spirit of righteousness and put it in its proper place--caring for the poor. In this economy there are quite a few of them to care for.

They shall know us by our love, right? We can do better by Jesus. I believe that.

[

By the same standard, why do two girls who want to get married care so badly that the heterosexual community acknowledge their relationship?

Thats what I'd like to know, one reason is "marriage" or to "marry" in the United States is defined as that between one man and one woman. Else I could marry my brother. So I suggest the civil unions is a good thing to start working on a gay marriage concept to be defined as that between same sex couples.

Why do they wish to march in parades. There are no group of heterosexuals demanding a group of people who prefer missionary position sex be allowed to march.

I'd rather it be no ones damn business what kinda sex they are having if you don't mind.

It is like saying gay marriage will lead to public masterbation, which is just ludicrious.

Then how about marrying ones self? if sexual prefernces is the issue then what about people who have a threesome sexual orientation? or are "a-sexual" That's consenting adults

As to why homosexuals want to be able to get married, let's look at what advantages civil marriage holds:

As to why homosexuals want to be able to get married, let's look at what advantages civil marriage holds:

According to a report given to the Office of the General Counsel of the U.S. General Accounting Office, here are a few of the 1,138 benefits the United States government provides to legally married couples:

Access to Military Stores
Assumption of Spouse’s Pension
Bereavement Leave
Immigration
Insurance Breaks
Medical Decisions on Behalf of Partner
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Social Security Survivor Benefits
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Tax Breaks
Veteran’s Discounts
Visitation of Partner in Hospital or Prison

Here are a few of the state level benefits within the United States:

Assumption of Spouse’s Pension
Automatic Inheritance
Automatic Housing Lease Transfer
Bereavement Leave
Burial Determination
Child Custody
Crime Victim’s Recovery Benefits
Divorce Protections
Domestic Violence Protection
Exemption from Property Tax on Partner’s Death
Immunity from Testifying Against Spouse
Insurance Breaks
Joint Adoption and Foster Care
Joint Bankruptcy
Joint Parenting (Insurance Coverage, School Records)
Medical Decisions on Behalf of Partner
Certain Property Rights
Reduced Rate Memberships
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Visitation of Partner’s Children
Visitation of Partner in Hospital or Prison
Wrongful Death (Loss of Consort) Benefits

Source.

Yeah and many others not qualified for them can't have them either Jax Like unmarried hetero sexuals shouldn't THEY be given the same equal rights as anyone else? Just because their single? What does who they aren't loving have to do with it? They aren't causing anyone else any harm for having the same benefits .

It matters not whether or not the 'heterosexual community' cares to acknowledges our relationships anymore than it matters to non-Catholics that the Catholic Church does not acknowledge their marriages. It is about equality and civil protections, not social acceptance, which almost all are missing.

Their is not one of those rights you don't have and this isn't about equal rights it is about equal "access" under the law BIG difference. It is why we have womans restrooms for woman and boyscouts for boys not old woman. It's about letting the boyscouts BE the boy scouts even if the idiotic aclu sues to have girls be part of it.

To those who keep arguing that 'the damn gubermint don't have no business in our marriages', I ask you this. Let's say you are married and your spouse's family just hates you. Now let's say that your spouse get very sick or critically injured and can no longer make decisions for themselves. Do you want the in-laws to have the power to swoop in, deny you visitation rights, deny you the right to make medical decisions for your spouse's care, take half of the stuff your and your spouse own, and forbid you to even attend your spouse's funeral because you do not have the protections provided by 'the damn gubermint'? Happens to gay people everyday. I know, I've seen it firsthand. Now do you see why we want equality?

Well now you know why creating civil contracts power of attorney etc is there for people like that.

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Stylez]

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Stylez]

Originally posted by A Fortiori

I am a Christian. I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, I love and hold him dear to my heart. I believe he died on the cross for my terrible sins, and he healed my broken soul.

I have made myself quite clear on this that I am a follower of Jesus the Christ, the Messiah. I am not a Jew, nor am I a follower of Paul of Tarsus. I see the Gospels as Truth, and they are our instruction for living a righteous life. Most Christians prefer to select cafeteria style from the Jewish Law (as seen in the Hebrew Bible) and the writings of Paul, and would be horrified if themselves subjected tho the whole of it.

No pepperoni and cheese pizza, no women in church, no haircuts for the hair above the ears, no shrimp, crab, Sabbath on Fri/Saturday, no work at all on the Sabbath, etc. These are things most Christians set aside in the cafeteria Bible they profess to follow.

The really cool thing, though, is that Jesus told us what we needed to do in the 25th chapter of Matthew and we'd be the sheep among the goats. Take care of the poor, the sick,

STOP right there. The poor and the sick? You don't think homosexuals are sick? I mean overcome by sin, given to it? Not all homosexuals but the ones we are talking to certainly are without conscience

When Jaxon mocked a poster suggesting it is preposterous to think gay being married once legitimized status won't make public sex legal. He was only Joking.

I on the other hand am not.

Why do God's people tolerate sin and perversion while the wicked rule over them with pride? It's because many Christians are so weak in their faith and comfortable in their sin that they delight in doing evil because there is no fear of judgment anymore. People today prefer to get their ears tickled at church instead of getting their hearts convicted

"This sensitivity to not offend is a symptom of this hedonistic generation. The last virtue of a wicked society is tolerance. A sinner will throw away all the Bible, but still quote, “Judge not that ye be not judged.” - Michael Pearl



“Professing to be wise, they became fools…who exchanged the TRUTH of God for the lie” – Romans 1:22-24

and Lesbian Task Force (NGLTF) and the Gay And Lesbian Advocates AndDefenders (GLAD). In May, 2004, the NGLTF announced a new alliancewith the Woodhull Freedom Foundation (WFF), a sex-ual liberation group that seeks to abolish laws againstprostitution; overturn “age of consent” laws protect-ing children from adult sexual predators; and seeks to legalize homosexual sodomy in public restrooms and parks. The WFF also seeks to ban all abstinence-only sex education materials in our nation’s public schools. According to an NGLTF press release (May 28, 2004),this new NGLTF/WFF coalition will focus first onstudying America’s “archaic” sex laws and will then filelawsuits to have these laws overturned.


The Gay And Lesbian Advocates and Defenders has already successfully overturned a Massachusetts policygoverning how police are to treat homosexuals caughthaving sex in public restroom stalls. The homosexualgroup sued the police for harassment against a homo-sexual male, identified only as John Doe. Doe had beenconvicted in 1998 for lewd sexual conduct in thewoods near a rest area. When police spotted Doe near a public restroom in 1999, they ejected him fromthe park.GLAD claimed the police were unfairly targeting Doefor harassment and violating his constitutional rights. A Middlesex Superior Court judge then issued an injunc-tion barring police from removing Doe from rest areas. www.iswface.org...

Yeah we wouldn't want them to be "offended" now,

would we.









[edit on 4-9-2009 by Stylez]

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Stylez]

Well now you know why creating civil contracts power of attorney etc is there for people like that.

I've been following the argument going on here for a the past few pages. And I agree with some of your points, not all, but some.

I am just curious as to why you said, " People like that". It seems by that tone that we the gay community is different from you a hetero male? Now, this is the big question.

Why the fighting? Why the treating like another sect of humanity? Are we all not human? Is my love for my husband different from the love you have for your wife?

Is the love I hold for my children different than the love you give to yours?

I would like to think not, since love is universal, I assume we all speak the same dialect of love.

Yes you are correct when you say that there are different avenues that gay couple can take to make sure these rights are afforded. Civil contracts and such and such. But why are we subjected to such a long, strenuous and costly approach to our rights when you all receive them simply by saying I do?

As for the argument that single folk don't have those, yes they do. They don't need to care for anybody else but themselves, so they make all the decisions. The people closest to them make the decisions when they cannot.

The same goes for gay couples, they should be able to make those decisions for their partner, since they are the ones who love and care for one another.

These rights are about couples, let's not start bringing single people into the fray, that's a whole other ball game.

There is no right side on this debate, since it's been dragged in mud by us and you for decades now. There will come a point when we will simply be tired of this charade and we will all come to some sort of understanding.

The wonderful thing about us humans is that we are dymanic creatures. We change with the times, as we should for progress is not set in the past but set in the future.

Everyone should be afforded the same rights, the minority and the majority, it is a very simple concept.

Edit to add, in response to the post you made above. There are fringe groups in every sect of society, I would not think that Christian would need to be reminded of such things.

Extremism is in full bloom in our world, and those gays that you listed, are a minority in our group, a group of folks who aren't acting with intelligence or with the purpose of human well being. They are selfish.

The larger majority of us are not. As I said, extremism is extremism and making generalisations like you did above is not accurate in this type of debate.

~Keeper

[edit on 9/4/2009 by tothetenthpower]

reply to post by Stylez


Before I even dignify that post with a response, go back and properly credit the quotes you've listed! The first two, at least, are not mine! Do not put the words of some other member as a quote from me, especially when they counter my beliefs and opinions! SHAME ON YOU!!!

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
I am just curious as to why you said, " People like that". It seems by that tone that we the gay community is different from you a hetero male? Now, this is the big question

People like that means just what it says in the context the statement answers, ie; those facing the death of a loved one or they are about to die and their companion would be wise to have such a document

.

Why the fighting? Why the treating like another sect of humanity? Are we all not human? Is my love for my husband different from the love you have for your wife?

Oh didn't you hear? gays want legislation making them a "special class distinction" I am not treating them that way I want to treat them as equals. It is they that want special protections and other special ideas.

Is the love I hold for my children different than the love you give to yours?

Calls for speculation

I would like to think not, since love is universal, I assume we all speak the same dialect of love.

Bare assertion

Yes you are correct when you say that there are different avenues that gay couple can take to make sure these rights are afforded. Civil contracts and such and such. But why are we subjected to such a long, strenuous and costly approach to our rights when you all receive them simply by saying I do?

Ever try to marry three woman and get a license for that? I'm afraid they have the same complaint

As for the argument that single folk don't have those, yes they do. They don't need to care for anybody else but themselves, so they make all the decisions. The people closest to them make the decisions when they cannot.

Assuming the consequent

The same goes for gay couples, they should be able to make those decisions for their partner, since they are the ones who love and care for one another.

Hence the civil contract

These rights are about couples, let's not start bringing single people into the fray, that's a whole other ball game.

Gay marriage is also but you don't hear me saying lets not discuss it.

There is no right side on this debate, since it's been dragged in mud by us and you for decades now. There will come a point when we will simply be tired of this charade and we will all come to some sort of understanding.

Assuming the consequent, argumentative

The wonderful thing about us humans is that we are dymanic creatures. We change with the times, as we should for progress is not set in the past but set in the future.

Gay marriage is nothing novel and everywhere it has taken place it did more to hurt society than it did to help. Frankly I don't see that it contributes anything positive at all save for those who want to legitimize gay relations by riding the coat tails of hetero sexual marriage and trhat is why they want to re-define the meaning of the word to encompass them when they have been offered an alternative so the straight married people won't feel like their institution had gays who can't take no for an answer impose their agenda on it because of their own inability to tolerate the voice of the people

Everyone should be afforded the same rights, the minority and the majority, it is a very simple concept.

Yeah I agree and a gay guy has every right to marry anyone he wants.

Providing she'll have him. That is JUST LIKE THE REST of us have to follow the same rules.

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by Stylez

 

Before I even dignify that post with a response, go back and properly credit the quotes you've listed! The first two, at least, are not mine! Do not put the words of some other member as a quote from me, especially when they counter my beliefs and opinions! SHAME ON YOU!!!

Oh relax Jaxon Ill fix it.

There ya go jaxon my apologies


[edit on 4-9-2009 by Stylez]

reply to post by Stylez

STOP right there. The poor and the sick? You don't think homosexuals are sick? I mean overcome by sin, given to it? Not all homosexuals but the ones we are talking to certainly are without conscience

Is that so? Sick and without conscience....hmmm....maybe time to look in the mirror, as what people scream the loudest about is often something they cannot integrate...or just an outlet for extreme anger and hatred at the world in general.
I see no love. I see no empathy. I see no compassion. I see no christian spirit in any of your posts. Just strange twisted logic and an outpouring of bile.
And yet you talk of sickness and lack of conscience. Hmmm.

reply to post by Stylez

Why do God's people tolerate sin and perversion while the wicked rule over them with pride? It's because many Christians are so weak in their faith and comfortable in their sin that they delight in doing evil because there is no fear of judgment anymore. People today prefer to get their ears tickled at church instead of getting their hearts convicted

How am I not convicted?

Matthew 25:13

13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

I am currently doing the bills for three infirm, I was a hospice worker, I worked HIV and Tuberculosis relief, I have taken in a single mother and child to get her on her feet, I started a non-profit barter-trade to help the poor with their bills.

Matthew 25: 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

We are to keep watch, to keep his commandments. This is his admonition in the 25th chapter of Matthew. I keep these commandments. How can you say that I am not convicted?

I am not here judging others. I am not condemning. I forgive others. I pray for those who are hurting. I follow the Beatitudes and you are telling me that I am not as convicted as you because I don't see pre-marital homosexual sex through a different lens than other pre-marital sex? You will judge me for this? I am not judging you. I encouraged you to rethink your stance and turn to the love of Christ. I never doubted your conviction. I said we both could do better.

The things I do, I do not in my own name. I am kind to glorify the Christ who saved me from sin and hopelessness.

"This sensitivity to not offend is a symptom of this hedonistic generation. The last virtue of a wicked society is tolerance. A sinner will throw away all the Bible, but still quote, “Judge not that ye be not judged.” - Michael Pearl

Michael Pearl, last I looked, was not Messiah. Jesus was.

It is human to keep what we like and throw away the rest. Is it right? No, but I know what I believe. I believe in the Gospels. I believe Jesus was prophesied about and came to fulfill the Law. He came to spread God's Truth and clarify what he spoke of to the prophets. Only Christ was Messiah, not Moses, not Noah, not even God's friend, Abraham. Christ. So I trust him more than I trust you, though I am certain you are a good person.

How many claiming to love Christ turn the other cheek? Few that I know. How many claiming to love Christ love their enemies? Fewer still. How many claiming to love Christ forgive debts? Very few. Michael Pearl no more than you and are are guilty of sin, and should be grateful for the forgiveness of Christ if we are willing to forgive others and not judge their sins.

“Professing to be wise, they became fools…who exchanged the TRUTH of God for the lie” – Romans 1:22-24

To this I say,

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

I ask that you please reconsider, you seem to thirst for righteousness. I am not asking that you love homosexuality. I am asking that you not publicly judge them and put this issue above that of the thousands of poor that we Christians allow to starve each day, above the children at St. Jude's, above Christ's work here on earth.

Paul of Tarsus came in his own name, pronounced himself the thirteenth apostle when Christ appointed twelve with himself at the seat. Paul has 13 books in the Bible, more than Christ. Paul's words are more quoted by Protestants than those of Jesus. Why do you think that is if Christ is our Messiah?

I think we should be careful whom we elevate, as it was G-D who made Jesus Messiah, John the Baptist who annointed him, and Paul who made himself a prophet.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Extremism is in full bloom in our world, and those gays that you listed, are a minority in our group, a group of folks who aren't acting with intelligence or with the purpose of human well being. They are selfish.

The larger majority of us are not. As I said, extremism is extremism and making generalisations like you did above is not accurate in this type of debate.

~Keeper

[edit on 9/4/2009 by tothetenthpower]

errm umm I think if you googled it, you'll find that is just ONE of the great aggregation of the MANY gay organizations that want to do that moreover you are assuming Gay sex is not an extreme life style in and of itself.

You ever read the papers?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6f3cba6f5b51.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/134ad55f4bee.jpg[/atsimg]

that was 1972 care to see what they are up to now? Ill show ya if ya like but I don't think you would like me for sharing the truth


[edit on 4-9-2009 by Stylez]

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Stylez]

Originally posted by oneclickaway

Is that so? Sick and without conscience....hmmm....maybe time to look in the mirror, as what people scream the loudest about is often something they cannot integrate...or just an outlet for extreme anger and hatred at the world in general.
I see no love. I see no empathy. I see no compassion. I see no christian spirit in any of your posts. Just strange twisted logic and an outpouring of bile.
And yet you talk of sickness and lack of conscience. Hmmm.

Yes. sin is a sickeness and when Jesus was talking to the publicans and sinners trying to tell them they were wrong and doing what will kill them spiritually, they abmonished him for being in that group debating with them as they were nothing but reprobates. Jesus said hospitals are for sick people and he was there sharing.

You can try to make this some kind of hate thing if you want guy,, but what you think of me is none of my business.

reply to post by Stylez


Exhibitionism is not necessarily "homosexual" and pedophilia is also not precluded to same sex. These psychiatric conditions occur in heterosexuals, as well.

However, if you look up the statistics you will find that lesbians account for the smallest minority of public exhibitionists and that is "homosexual" yes? You will find that lesbians have fewer sexual partners than heterosexuals and they are also "homosexual" yes? They have fewer venereal diseases than heterosexuals, too.

Maybe the problem isn't with "homosexuality" at all, but the male sex drive?