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Knowledge of Creation handed down through the ages written by Moses

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posted on Sep, 2 2009 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by Keeper of Kheb
 


Self-fulfilling prophecies really aren't that impressive.

But in response to the original post, Moses didn't write a word of the Bible, so right off the bat your information is lacking. "Who Wrote the Bible" is a great read ( and I believe the author, last name Friedman, forgive me for not remembering the first name, is a person of faith and not a hater- just interested in accuracy ) and tells of the first 5 books of the Old Testament were edited ( as mentioned, very thoroughly in an above response ) by Ezra from 4 original texts. Fascinating, to me, who was raised to believe that Moses wrote them. What bothers me is so many "believers" refuse to look at outside sources for verification. If your Bible is so true, there should be overwhelming verification from outside sources. There is not.
Of course, you can always pull out the "faith" card and keep the wool over your eyes.

Another interesting thing is that the Creation myth comes from Babylonian mythology, which I'm pretty sure most Christians are uncomfortable dealing with, since Babylon is generally not associated with anything good in the Judeo-Christian philosophy.

"Seek and you shall find"




posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 06:59 AM
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Originally posted by Nyrossius Maxim
reply to post by Keeper of Kheb
 


Self-fulfilling prophecies really aren't that impressive.

But in response to the original post, Moses didn't write a word of the Bible, so right off the bat your information is lacking. "Who Wrote the Bible" is a great read ( and I believe the author, last name Friedman, forgive me for not remembering the first name, is a person of faith and not a hater- just interested in accuracy ) and tells of the first 5 books of the Old Testament were edited ( as mentioned, very thoroughly in an above response ) by Ezra from 4 original texts. Fascinating, to me, who was raised to believe that Moses wrote them. What bothers me is so many "believers" refuse to look at outside sources for verification. If your Bible is so true, there should be overwhelming verification from outside sources. There is not.
Of course, you can always pull out the "faith" card and keep the wool over your eyes.

Another interesting thing is that the Creation myth comes from Babylonian mythology, which I'm pretty sure most Christians are uncomfortable dealing with, since Babylon is generally not associated with anything good in the Judeo-Christian philosophy.

"Seek and you shall find"


how do you know moses didn't write the bible? how do you know creation was from the babylonians? how do you know ezra edited the bible? Any facts?



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 07:14 AM
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Prophecies of Jesus


Micah 5:1-2:

1 Marshal your troops, O city of troops, for a siege is laid against us. They will strike Israel's ruler on the cheek with a rod.

2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."

Genesis 49:10:

The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the nations is his.


Jeremiah 23:5:

"The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land.

Isaiah 7:14:

Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

Prophecy of Crucifixion of Jesus

Isaiah 50:6:

I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard; I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting.

Isaiah 53:7:

He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.

Isaiah 53:4-6:

4 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted.

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.


Prophecy concerning Israel becoming a nation again

Zechariah 8:7-8

This is what the Lord Almighty says: "I will save my people from the countries of the east and the west. I will bring them back to live in Jerusalem; they will be my people, and I will be faithful and righteous to them as their God."

Zephaniah 3:9 "For then I will return to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent."

Jeremiah 23:7-8 "Therefore behold, the days are coming declares the Lord, when they will no longer say, as the Lord lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of Egypt, but as the Lord lives, who brought up and led back the descendants of the household of Israel from the north land and from all the countries where I have driven them. Then they will live on their own soil." (Return of Jews from Russia)

Here is Amos 9:11, 13

"In that day I will restore David's fallen tent. I will repair its broken places, restore its ruins, and build it as it used to be,'' … "The days are coming," declares the Lord, "when the reaper will be overtaken by the plowman and the planter by the one treading grapes. New wine will drip from the mountains and flow from all the hills."

Ezekiel 36:11

I will increase the number of men and animals upon you, and they will be fruitful and become numerous. I will settle people on you as in the past and will make you prosper more than before. Then you will know that I am the Lord.

Isaiah 27:6

In days to come Jacob will take root, Israel will bud and blossom and fill all the world with fruit. (Israel is a leading producer of agricultural products, exporting food to many countries)



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 11:46 AM
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Sorry, Keeper but...

The 4 Nicene Council Approved 'Greek' Gospels are not 'positivistic history' i.e. pure facts at all, but rather 'hagaddic midrash' using various messianic texts taken from varioius Hebrew (confused families of handwritten copies of) writings as their starting point, and then embellishing 'fake fulfilments' from them.

Midrash comes from the Hebew 'D-R-SH' ('to seek out', 'search out'), and means somethiing like 'Explanation' or 'Expansion' of an old testament verse. (cf: Luke: 'Search (i.e. Midrash) the Scriptures, and you will see everything written in the books of Mosheh, and in the Psalms and in the Prophets...)

Midrash comes in various forms, one of them is Haggadah, i.e. 'legend' i.e. a made up story with a moral tale to explain the inner truth of something (e.g. the made up story of George Washington cutting down the cherry tree was a midrashic expansion by the biographer Mason Locke Weems in the year 1800 when he wanted to promulgate the idea that George 'could not tell a lie', hence the cherry tree Midrash---it never 'rally' happened in real life: it was made up by Weems, who later admitted in print that he wanted to 'illustrate' some aspect of Washington's personality)

The Gospels do the same thing: they take an old testament verse e.g. from the Book of Proverbs (e.g. 'the Lips of the Righteous One shall feed the Crowds' combined with the story of Elishaq the Galilean in II Kings chapter 4 &5 feeding 100 men with a single bowl of porridge, and voila ! you have the Messiah feeding 5,000 people with some bread and fish, etc.)

To prove that the Gospel writers (whoever they were !) were using Midrashic Expansions and not 'positivistic' history, read what the 4th Gospel [of 'John', whoever he was !] writes: 'THESE THINGS WERE WRITTEN THAT YOU MIGHT BELIEVE THAT IESOUS IS THE CHRISTOS AND BY BELIEVING YOU MIGHT HAVE LIFE BY HIS NAME..' which is an admission that he is writing 'so that you might believe' i.e. propaganda, not pure history.

Here is an example of a gospel writer playing fast and loose with the facts of his story to make a theological point of (faked) 'fulfilment'

Look at Matthew 21:7 (and compare the story with Mark 11:7, Luke 19:35, & John 12:14)

The title of this section is : HOW MANY DONKEYS did IESOUS RIDE?

See the blatant mis-translation in the 1st Gospel being used as a TEXT SOURCE (!) about R. Yehoshua riding into Jerusalem on 2 donkeys based on an inaccurate translation of Zech 9:9; apparently the writer of Matthew's gospel (whoever he was, probably the 'replacement' disciple who never met 'Jeezeuz' in the flesh, but merely replaced 'Yehudah bar Shimeon Ish Keryiota' (i.e. Judas Is-kerioth) after his departure from the '12'...and collected the sayings of the Rabbi after his execution for preaching purposes) was using an Aramaic Targum or the Heberew Vorlage to the LXX Greek Old Testament version of Zechariah 9:9 which has 'Jeezzzuz' riding on TWO animals (i.e. based on a mistranslation of a TEXT not an actual event) :

LXX (and Vorlage) : 'Rejoice Jerusalem, your King comes to you riding lowly upon a Donkey AND a Colt, the foal of a Donkey...'

This is a mistranslation of the usual Hebrew parallelism found in poetical verses of the prophets, e.g.

[recte] 'Rejoice, O Yerushalayim, for thy king cometh unto you, lowly and riding upon an ass, yea, humbly, upon a colt, even the foal of an ass...'

where the ass, colt and foal are all in 'apposition' (i.e. describing the SAME that is, a SINGLE animal, not TWO animals as in 'Matthew's' gospel midrashic version of the story.

So you CANNOT quote these midrashic 'fake fulfilment' haddadic midrashic legends as proof of anything but a literary device used by the earliest Nazorean Christianities to try and get people 'to believe' that Iesous was the Christos, by his alleged fulfilments - most of which are made up to prove a point---like Weems and his Cherry Tree.

You can put your bullets away now..



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 04:13 PM
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Thank you, Sigismundis! I don't have the references in front of me like you do and your argument appears to be the same as mine


Anybody who has actually researched the history of the Bible will inevitably come across much evidence contradicting traditional Christianity. Of course, most Christians believe that the Bible is the only source of information one needs and that everything in it is absolutely true.
This is willfull ignorance based in fear, I believe. Fear that one might discover a truth that is in conflict with the dogma they have been taught.

My question for Keeper is what historical evidence do you have that the man Jesus of Nazareth even existed? The only historian of that time that even mentions Jesus is Josephus, and most scholars today consider him to be less than credible. The burden of proof is actually on the persons who site the Bible as their only source of information. Pretty sure no one would believe the claims of someone reciting Greek mythology as fact today, and Christianity is little more than superstition itself.



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by Keeper of Kheb
how do you know moses didn't write the bible? how do you know creation was from the babylonians? how do you know ezra edited the bible? Any facts?


The real question: Do you have any "facts" that prove otherwise?



posted on Sep, 4 2009 @ 12:19 PM
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Hi Nyrossius Maxim--

Well said, you are not far from the Kingdom ! (the Kingdom of of Actual Facts, i.e. the empirical truth which can be proved by actual evidence--not some Daviddic Restoration Fantasy !)

Also quick note: when people start talking about 'Jesus of Nazareth' beware: NAZIR is the Hebrew word for 'branch' (i.e. of David) from the Scroll of the Book of the Prophet Zechariah 6:9 (Behold the Man, who is called the NAZIR (i.e. the Branch of David)..he shall rebuild the Temple of YHWH)...

Nazareth was not a place during the lifetime of R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean on any map that existed in that time...it was not really identified as a Galilean town until the time of Constantine when 4th century persons began visiting the 'holy' (!) land, and started marking out pilgrimage sites, most of them not based on factual historical landmarks...but good for business trade nonetheless (well, pilgrims have to eat, drink and sleep somehwhere, after all..!)

There was a Lake Genessereth on the map in those days which might have been around the area of the Galilee (lit. 'circle of Goyim/Gentiles') but no 'Nazareth'; the gospel writer of 'Matthew' and 'Luke' (whoever they were) wrote long after Eret Yisro'el was ground to powder by the Romans during the 1st failed Jewish War against Rome (AD 66-72) which started 70-years after the death of Herod the 'great' on a 'magical timetable' for the End of Days...when more than 900,000 Judaeans and Galileans died (mostly of disease and starvation which accompanies any long term interruption of the normal food supply during wartime)...

The only reliable "Galielan' town of the early 1st century AD that had any real connexion with this R. Yehoshua bar Yosef ('the Galilean Nazir') was a small village called Kefar-Nahum (Heb. 'village of Nahum' cf in Greek: 'Capernaum') where he allegedly owned at least one house in his own name probably some property handed down by the Davidds - see: 'Mark's ' (whoever he was !) gospel, chapter 2:1-2

'and when it was rumoured that he was home at his own house..the people began swarming to see him ..')

A more 'historical' reference to this man would be something like "Yehoshu/Iesous the Nazir' such as we see (according to the Greek 'canonical gospels' at least) on the mocking Titulus on the Cross Post on top (or at the bottom!) of the execution stake ('cross') in the Gospel Passion Narratives (Take a Look at Iesous the Nazir, the King of the Judaeans) whose material is slightly older in terms of fixed oral 'tradition' (apparently for liturgical purposes !) than the rest of the gospel material, albeit Midrashic expansions of Psalm 22, and isaiah 53 etc.



posted on Sep, 4 2009 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by Sigismundus
Sorry, Keeper but...

The 4 Nicene Council Approved 'Greek' Gospels are not 'positivistic history' i.e. pure facts at all, but rather 'hagaddic midrash' using various messianic texts taken from varioius Hebrew (confused families of handwritten copies of) writings as their starting point, and then embellishing 'fake fulfilments' from them.

Midrash comes from the Hebew 'D-R-SH' ('to seek out', 'search out'), and means somethiing like 'Explanation' or 'Expansion' of an old testament verse. (cf: Luke: 'Search (i.e. Midrash) the Scriptures, and you will see everything written in the books of Mosheh, and in the Psalms and in the Prophets...)

Midrash comes in various forms, one of them is Haggadah, i.e. 'legend' i.e. a made up story with a moral tale to explain the inner truth of something (e.g. the made up story of George Washington cutting down the cherry tree was a midrashic expansion by the biographer Mason Locke Weems in the year 1800 when he wanted to promulgate the idea that George 'could not tell a lie', hence the cherry tree Midrash---it never 'rally' happened in real life: it was made up by Weems, who later admitted in print that he wanted to 'illustrate' some aspect of Washington's personality)

The Gospels do the same thing: they take an old testament verse e.g. from the Book of Proverbs (e.g. 'the Lips of the Righteous One shall feed the Crowds' combined with the story of Elishaq the Galilean in II Kings chapter 4 &5 feeding 100 men with a single bowl of porridge, and voila ! you have the Messiah feeding 5,000 people with some bread and fish, etc.)

To prove that the Gospel writers (whoever they were !) were using Midrashic Expansions and not 'positivistic' history, read what the 4th Gospel [of 'John', whoever he was !] writes: 'THESE THINGS WERE WRITTEN THAT YOU MIGHT BELIEVE THAT IESOUS IS THE CHRISTOS AND BY BELIEVING YOU MIGHT HAVE LIFE BY HIS NAME..' which is an admission that he is writing 'so that you might believe' i.e. propaganda, not pure history.

Here is an example of a gospel writer playing fast and loose with the facts of his story to make a theological point of (faked) 'fulfilment'

Look at Matthew 21:7 (and compare the story with Mark 11:7, Luke 19:35, & John 12:14)

The title of this section is : HOW MANY DONKEYS did IESOUS RIDE?

See the blatant mis-translation in the 1st Gospel being used as a TEXT SOURCE (!) about R. Yehoshua riding into Jerusalem on 2 donkeys based on an inaccurate translation of Zech 9:9; apparently the writer of Matthew's gospel (whoever he was, probably the 'replacement' disciple who never met 'Jeezeuz' in the flesh, but merely replaced 'Yehudah bar Shimeon Ish Keryiota' (i.e. Judas Is-kerioth) after his departure from the '12'...and collected the sayings of the Rabbi after his execution for preaching purposes) was using an Aramaic Targum or the Heberew Vorlage to the LXX Greek Old Testament version of Zechariah 9:9 which has 'Jeezzzuz' riding on TWO animals (i.e. based on a mistranslation of a TEXT not an actual event) :

LXX (and Vorlage) : 'Rejoice Jerusalem, your King comes to you riding lowly upon a Donkey AND a Colt, the foal of a Donkey...'

This is a mistranslation of the usual Hebrew parallelism found in poetical verses of the prophets, e.g.

[recte] 'Rejoice, O Yerushalayim, for thy king cometh unto you, lowly and riding upon an ass, yea, humbly, upon a colt, even the foal of an ass...'

where the ass, colt and foal are all in 'apposition' (i.e. describing the SAME that is, a SINGLE animal, not TWO animals as in 'Matthew's' gospel midrashic version of the story.

So you CANNOT quote these midrashic 'fake fulfilment' haddadic midrashic legends as proof of anything but a literary device used by the earliest Nazorean Christianities to try and get people 'to believe' that Iesous was the Christos, by his alleged fulfilments - most of which are made up to prove a point---like Weems and his Cherry Tree.

You can put your bullets away now..



I don't believe you exist. I believe you are just some electronic text in cyberspace that has no real purpose. You say, Keeper your crazy to say that. I would say well I have never seen you how do I know you exist. You can say because i have responded and written in an intelligent manner indicating that I am a true living human being responding to this post. Hasn't God given his word? Written through divine inspiration to men so that man would know the covenant? he sent his son to fulfill that covenant. To walk among men proclaiming the word of God with power and authority. Then after the fulfillment of that Covenant he sent his spirit to the Church which now is the Body as Christ as the head.

The church now walks in that same power that christ has and even greater things do we perform because satan has been defeated. Deaf has heard, the lame has walked, the dead has been raised. And still people don't believe. God gave his word, he sent his son they rejected him, he sent his church to tell the world and they still reject him. Woe unto you for your unbelief for you will not have an advocate in the Judgement. You will not be able to stand in that day. You will be cast into the burning furnace for all eternity. This is the truth and you know it but you still reject it giving in to your vain imagination and saducing spirits. I tell you know Repent! turn from your wickedness! Accept Jesus as your lord and savior and escape Judgement and fall into the arms of Love, the one who died for you, who took your place and took upon himself your crimes. God has set before you Life and Death choose you this day which it shall be.



posted on Sep, 4 2009 @ 04:44 PM
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Hey Keeper of the Kheb

I think maybe you need to take a comparative religions class so you can do some very hard thinking about the world in which you are living, and also you should think seriously about taing some veryt basic classes in beginner's paelo-Hebrew and Koine Greek, and some Aramaic later on. That way you can understand the language of your socalled Rebbe 'Jeezuz' and even (shock and awe!!!!!) read for yourself the texts you claim to believe in, when in fact, you (like 95% of all persons who style themselevs as 'Christians' on this tiny insignficant planet) cannot even read a word of what you purport to believe in their original languages.

Which means you will forever be groping around in the dark, never understanding a thing about the origins of your own muddled belief systems and forever talking uneducated gibberish, to become the laughing stock of all thinking persons on this thread.

But, as I firmly believe, it is never too late to educate the uneducated. But first they have to WANT to learn. Otherwise I cannot see the purpose of your existence.

If you took the time to study the original languages of your confused belief system you would then begin to come to understand a little about why things in your 'church' ended up being said the way they did.

Read Bart Ehrman's little beginnier's book that came out last year 'Jesus Interrupted' to get you started, and I do wish you well in your venture. If you do NOT take this step, then you will forever be living in the Dark.

EDUCATION = e(x) + Duco (Latin for: I lead out of [darkness]). That is the purpose of living on this planet. otherwise...you had better explain yourself...



posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by PieKeeper

Originally posted by Keeper of Kheb
how do you know moses didn't write the bible? how do you know creation was from the babylonians? how do you know ezra edited the bible? Any facts?


The real question: Do you have any "facts" that prove otherwise?


This is the ONLY argument Christians have at the end of the day.
Well let's see...I can prove Dinosaurs exsisted.
It's been proven they were here before mankind, so I ask you where's your PROOF that God, Jesus, etc ever exsisted?
No skeletal remains (Jesus was a man after-all, where's his remains?).
Nothing in the bible is fact.

Truth is, noone knows anything about how we came to be, it's all speculation.



posted on Sep, 8 2009 @ 09:05 PM
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How is it, Keeper, that you can demand evidence for ideas you disagree with but when asked to provide evidence for your beliefs you pull the faith card. Circular reasoning looping around faith.

You can believe whatever you want, just know that actual facts contradict the mythology you believe. If you wish to engage in an actual, logical debate your faith will not win.

Of course, you can always say, "Science doesn't know anything. You can't trust anything else ever written. God inspired the Bible therefore everything in it is the absolute truth and all the truth I need."

I think the Bible is a great literary work with much to contribute to society, but I do not believe it is the all-encompassing source of truth.



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 12:41 AM
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reply to post by Keeper of Kheb
 


No one wrote "the Bible". The bible was constructed from only a handful of thousands of documents and manuscripts, including the 5 books of the torah.

The bible was constructed during the Council of Nicea, held in 325 A.D.

It was not written by God, but by many men over many thousands of years.



posted on Sep, 10 2009 @ 01:34 AM
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Originally posted by Keeper of Kheb
Prophecies of Jesus


Micah 5:1-2:

1 Marshal your troops, O city of troops, for a siege is laid against us. They will strike Israel's ruler on the cheek with a rod.

2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."


They do not mention a name and Jesus never ruled Israel. False prophecy.



Genesis 49:10:

The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the nations is his.


All I can say to this is "Huh?"



Jeremiah 23:5:

"The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land.

There were many kings in that time, before and after. Jesus was never a king. Wasn't he a carpenter? False prophecy.



Isaiah 7:14:

Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

Um, Jesus' name was Jesus. He was never ever called that in the Bible, even as a title. He is only called Immanuel in modern hymns.



Prophecy of Crucifixion of Jesus

Isaiah 50:6:

I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard; I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting.

Isaiah 53:7:

He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.

Jesus was not the only one who was crucified, there were 2 others crucified with him and many more before and after. No prophecy there, false or otherwise.




Isaiah 53:4-6:

4 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted.

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Why can't we get a nice prophecy like "A woman named Mary will be impregnated by the 'holy spirit' and bear a son and he will be named Jesus". How can you link this to Jesus?



posted on Sep, 10 2009 @ 05:49 AM
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Originally posted by Keeper of Kheb
At that time the Jew's population grew so large that the egyptians feared them. Moses Wrote the 5 books of Torah towards the end of his life and would have known the story of creation from the decendants of Joseph . From Adam to the birth of Moses there was 2,433 years. the passage of Knowledge of the Creation of the Earth was passed down with overlapping years of offspring the knowledge that he would obtain would be 5th-6th hand knowledge. I hope your still with me i know it might be a bit confusing but here is my point. The accuracy of creation to Moses in my opinion would have been accurate and the Dead sea scrolls are calculated to have been written about 125 BC and AD 68 and the bible today is accurate with the writings of the scrolls. So we would have a Gap about 1300-1400 years from Moses to the Birth of Jesus. When Moses wrote the books of the Torah they would have been the most holy books to the Jewish faith and kept with care and if re-written would be done with 100% accuracy. They took these writings very seriously and would rather die than to miscopy the books. My point is, i believe we have with amazing accuracy an account of Creation told by Adam to his descendants 6000 years ago .




Keeper



On close inspection I'm beginning to suspect this is either a hoax or an attempt by a non-Christian to discredit the Bible and Christianity. Pay close attention to the orange bits especially the "5th - 6th hand knowledge" and "would have been accurate". Knowledge passed down by word of mouth for over 2000 years is accurate.... To that I would say "slaan my dood met 'n nat vis" / "hit me dead with a wet fish". In layman's terms "Ridiculous!"



posted on Sep, 10 2009 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by PublicDefenseCorp

Originally posted by PieKeeper

Originally posted by Keeper of Kheb
how do you know moses didn't write the bible? how do you know creation was from the babylonians? how do you know ezra edited the bible? Any facts?


The real question: Do you have any "facts" that prove otherwise?


This is the ONLY argument Christians have at the end of the day.
Well let's see...I can prove Dinosaurs exsisted.
It's been proven they were here before mankind, so I ask you where's your PROOF that God, Jesus, etc ever exsisted?
No skeletal remains (Jesus was a man after-all, where's his remains?).
Nothing in the bible is fact.

Truth is, noone knows anything about how we came to be, it's all speculation.


Uhhh... are you talking to me? My response to Keeper of Kheb was in relation to his attack on someone else, regarding the origin of the bible and whatever. He asks for proof from the person, but has yet to provide any evidence for his own claims.



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by PieKeeper

Originally posted by PublicDefenseCorp

Originally posted by PieKeeper

Originally posted by Keeper of Kheb
how do you know moses didn't write the bible? how do you know creation was from the babylonians? how do you know ezra edited the bible? Any facts?


The real question: Do you have any "facts" that prove otherwise?


This is the ONLY argument Christians have at the end of the day.
Well let's see...I can prove Dinosaurs exsisted.
It's been proven they were here before mankind, so I ask you where's your PROOF that God, Jesus, etc ever exsisted?
No skeletal remains (Jesus was a man after-all, where's his remains?).
Nothing in the bible is fact.

Truth is, noone knows anything about how we came to be, it's all speculation.


Uhhh... are you talking to me? My response to Keeper of Kheb was in relation to his attack on someone else, regarding the origin of the bible and whatever. He asks for proof from the person, but has yet to provide any evidence for his own claims.



You don't have any evidence that he doesn't exist. All the earth and the fullness thereof is the Lords and all things were created by him. Thats evidence. Pick up a piece of dirt that was made by him there is your proof. hundreds of thousands of species of animal life and plantlife articulated with beautiful colors and technology like sonar,nightvision,precision tools embedded in their being. The human body is proof enough. Look into the human eye its technology. The brain is a computer. the aerodynamics of birds. Key elements of our aviation technology is from birds. Evidence doesn't get more overwhelming than creation itself on top of that God came down as a man and the world rejected him. I pray you see this before it is too late once you die its all over there is no second chances. what do you have to lose by believing in God? if your wrong you lose nothing if your right you gain eternity.


Keeper



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by Keeper of Kheb

Originally posted by PieKeeper

Originally posted by PublicDefenseCorp

Originally posted by PieKeeper

Originally posted by Keeper of Kheb
how do you know moses didn't write the bible? how do you know creation was from the babylonians? how do you know ezra edited the bible? Any facts?


The real question: Do you have any "facts" that prove otherwise?


This is the ONLY argument Christians have at the end of the day.
Well let's see...I can prove Dinosaurs exsisted.
It's been proven they were here before mankind, so I ask you where's your PROOF that God, Jesus, etc ever exsisted?
No skeletal remains (Jesus was a man after-all, where's his remains?).
Nothing in the bible is fact.

Truth is, noone knows anything about how we came to be, it's all speculation.


Uhhh... are you talking to me? My response to Keeper of Kheb was in relation to his attack on someone else, regarding the origin of the bible and whatever. He asks for proof from the person, but has yet to provide any evidence for his own claims.



You don't have any evidence that he doesn't exist. All the earth and the fullness thereof is the Lords and all things were created by him. Thats evidence. Pick up a piece of dirt that was made by him there is your proof. hundreds of thousands of species of animal life and plantlife articulated with beautiful colors and technology like sonar,nightvision,precision tools embedded in their being. The human body is proof enough. Look into the human eye its technology. The brain is a computer. the aerodynamics of birds. Key elements of our aviation technology is from birds. Evidence doesn't get more overwhelming than creation itself on top of that God came down as a man and the world rejected him. I pray you see this before it is too late once you die its all over there is no second chances. what do you have to lose by believing in God? if your wrong you lose nothing if your right you gain eternity.


Keeper


First off, none of that is evidence . . . it's opinion. And . . . not based on any research that doesn't happen on a Sunday (false sabbath, BTW).

I love the last line . . . it's the final rationalization of a christian and the feeble line that the chuch and government use to "convert" the masses.

"Just do it . . . what have you got to lose?"

By the way . . . don't most christians believe that those that claim to be christians, just because or for the wrong reasons, are worse than those that don't believe because they haven't found "The Truth"?



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by solomons path

Originally posted by Keeper of Kheb

Originally posted by PieKeeper

Originally posted by PublicDefenseCorp

Originally posted by PieKeeper

Originally posted by Keeper of Kheb
how do you know moses didn't write the bible? how do you know creation was from the babylonians? how do you know ezra edited the bible? Any facts?


The real question: Do you have any "facts" that prove otherwise?


This is the ONLY argument Christians have at the end of the day.
Well let's see...I can prove Dinosaurs exsisted.
It's been proven they were here before mankind, so I ask you where's your PROOF that God, Jesus, etc ever exsisted?
No skeletal remains (Jesus was a man after-all, where's his remains?).
Nothing in the bible is fact.

Truth is, noone knows anything about how we came to be, it's all speculation.


Uhhh... are you talking to me? My response to Keeper of Kheb was in relation to his attack on someone else, regarding the origin of the bible and whatever. He asks for proof from the person, but has yet to provide any evidence for his own claims.



You don't have any evidence that he doesn't exist. All the earth and the fullness thereof is the Lords and all things were created by him. Thats evidence. Pick up a piece of dirt that was made by him there is your proof. hundreds of thousands of species of animal life and plantlife articulated with beautiful colors and technology like sonar,nightvision,precision tools embedded in their being. The human body is proof enough. Look into the human eye its technology. The brain is a computer. the aerodynamics of birds. Key elements of our aviation technology is from birds. Evidence doesn't get more overwhelming than creation itself on top of that God came down as a man and the world rejected him. I pray you see this before it is too late once you die its all over there is no second chances. what do you have to lose by believing in God? if your wrong you lose nothing if your right you gain eternity.


Keeper


First off, none of that is evidence . . . it's opinion. And . . . not based on any research that doesn't happen on a Sunday (false sabbath, BTW).

I love the last line . . . it's the final rationalization of a christian and the feeble line that the chuch and government use to "convert" the masses.

"Just do it . . . what have you got to lose?"

By the way . . . don't most christians believe that those that claim to be christians, just because or for the wrong reasons, are worse than those that don't believe because they haven't found "The Truth"?



You have all the evidence you are going to get. You have the truth in nature, the truth in your heart, the truth in the word, the church preaching the truth and finally God himself came to earth in the flesh. In the end you will have no defense when you are at the Judgement seat. I pray you find salvation and have an opportunity to know the living God and spend Eternity with him. Peace.



Keeper



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 09:56 PM
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www.touregypt.net...



3000 B.C.

Seth died at the age of 912. (2962 B.C.)
Seth's great-great-great-great-great-great grandchild, Noah, son of Lamech was born. Noah lived 905 years and fathered three sons.


2900 B.C.

Enos died at the age of 905. (2864B.C.)
With intermarriage now common, the Cainites held pervasive influence over the godly descendants of Seth. High moral, social and religious principles were fast becoming extinct.
Violence, debauchery and immorality now characterized almost the entirety of human society. Gen. 6:11


2800 B.C.

Noah talked with Cainan 179 years, Mahalaleel 243 years, Jared 366 years and with Lamech 595 years.
Cainan died at the age of 910. (2769 B.C.)
Mahalaleel died in 2714 B.C. at the age of 895.


2700 B.C.

Wickedness continued to increase. The great ages of the people allowed for an unparalleled pool of united experience, appetite and imagination applied to any given pursuit.


2600 B.C.

Jared died at the age of 962. (2582 B.C.)
Society essentially became corrupt. Only a few godly people remained.


2500 B.C.

Noah's sons were born. Shem the elder son carried on Seth's godly line. Shem lived 600 years and fathered five sons. Shem was 98 at the time of the flood. Gen. 10:21 Japheth, the middle son, fathered seven sons. And Ham, the younger son, fathered four sons. Gen. 9:24
Noah was called to build the ark and warn of the coming flood. (Circa. 2466 B.C.) Gen. 6
Noah began 120 years of prophesying about the coming flood. God asked him to conduct this warning for humanity.

2400 B.C.

Lamech died five years before the flood at the age of 777. (2353 B.C.)
Methuselah died shortly before the flood at the age of 969. (2348 B.C.)
The ark was completed. (Circa. 2348 B.C.) Gen. 7
The 120 years of warning came to an end. Gen. 7
The flood deluged the earth. (2348 B.C.) Gen. 7 (Noah and his family were in the ark one year and ten days. They entered in 2348 B.C. and exited in 2347 B.C.) The Deluge: Different Dates Assigned: Usher and English Bible, 2348 B.C.; Hebrew Bible, 2288 B.C.; Playfair Bible, 2352 B.C.; Clinton Bible, 2482 B.C.; Samaritan Pent, 2998 B.C.; Josephus, 3146 B.C.; Dr. Hales, 3155 B.C.; Septuagint, 3246 B.C.
Meat, grain and vegetables were given to humanity as food items. Gen 9:2-4
Murder was forbidden. Gen 9:5
Death penalty for murder, by either animals or humans, instated. Gen. 9:5-6
The rainbow covenant was instated. God covenanted with humanity and the animal kingdom to never again destroy the earth by flood. The first rainbow was seen. Gen. 8:21-22 and Gen. 9:8-17
Noah's three sons, Shem, Japheth and Ham began to repopulate the earth.
Shem had four of his five sons: Arphaxad, who lived 438 years and carried on Seth's godly family line, then Elam, then Asshur "Builder of Nineveh" and finally Lud. Gen. 10:11
Japheth had three of his seven sons: Comer, Magog and Madai. (No dates or years are given for Japheth's descendants.)
Ham had four sons: Cush, Mizraim, Phut and Canaan. (No dates or years are given for Ham's descendants.)
Shem's first grandchild, Salah, son of Arphaxad was born. Salah lived 433 years, and carried on Seth's godly posterity. He fathered a number of sons and daughters.
.


www.touregypt.net...

Early Dynastic Period

1st Dynasty (2920 - 2770 BC)
2nd Dynasty (2770 - 2650 BC)

en.wikipedia.org...



Den, the 4th King of Egypt's 1st Dynasty

Length of reign
According to a study of the Palermo Stone, Den had a reign of at least "32 complete or partial years."[6] He appears to have ascended the throne as a child, and the reign of his mother Merneith (possibly as pharaoh) was likely a regency until he was of age.[7] He lived long enough to have enjoyed a second Sed festival, suggesting a reign of at least 33 or 34 years.[8] Consequently his reign is the best attested from the period,[9] and activities of his reign are preserved in register L of Cairo Fragment 5 while his later years are recorded on register III of the Palermo Stone.[10]



Remember Egyptians ruled for life once in power so his reign would cover his life from small child when he took the reign.

So it seems the Egyptians had a normal life span compared to that of the people in the bible. So saying there was magical powers in the earth befor the flood that made people live longer just doesn't cut it. At least not for me.

egyptsites.wordpress.com...



Unas (Wenis) reigned at the end of Dynasty V, for a period of up to 30 years. His pyramid at Saqqara, although the smallest of the Old Kingdom pyramids, reflects his long reign in the intricately carved hieroglyphic decoration of the inner chambers – the earliest known example of the ‘Pyramid Texts’. Before his time (with the exception of Djoser’s monuments) all of the known pyramids had been undecorated..



And so thats the reign during Noahs flood.



posted on Sep, 14 2009 @ 12:40 PM
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Hi JBA 2848

The problem for people who love doing all these silly number games in terms of dates of 'the patriarchs' and the length of the reigns of kings etc. is that these persons ONLY use the MT-Masoretic pointed (i.e. vowelled) Text of the post Javneh (post AD 90) canonical OT Hebrew Scriptures (derived from a copy written by the Masoretes around 960 AD from a single MS in Lengingrad) show 480 years between Abraham and Moses, and 480 years from Moses tabernacle to Solomon's tabernacle etc. all in a forged numerological system that plays fast and loose with dates/years etc. all so they can keep the 480 year schema together---a form of Midrashic expansion to show the Macabbean revolt and the Babylonian Exile were all part of the same 480 year cycle--all made up, of course, like the 14-generations schema in Matthew's gospel which do not match Luke's (kings from BCE 680-630 are missing from Matthew so the Daviddic 14's appear in his midrashic lists of the 'Messiah's Daviddic ancestors etc.--same process of work with playing fast and loose with 'history' in the Jewish Hagaddic Midrashic Rabinnic tradition).

Take a look at the far older (unpointed) Samaritan Pentateuch texts which were compiled from around BCE 400 which shows a whole different set of years of the Israelites in Egypt, and the age of each of the so-called Patriarchs etc. so that the 480 year schema does not exist at all. It proves that the 480 year schema is a midrashic legendary fiction of the FINAL compilers of the Masoretic Text. Different locale-traditions = different text numbers in the Torah; they did not start counting 'middle letters on a page' for accurate transmission until after AD 250--but we found older texts at QUMRAN.

E.g. take a look at all the various contradictory copies of the Dead Sea Scroll versions of the Torah (unpointed) lying side by side in the same cave (e.g. Cave 4) for example show that the UNPOINTED HEBREW VORLAGE (underlay) to the Greek Septuaginta (LXX from about 200 BCE) has in fact another (3rd) schema with a third (!) different tradition about the exact number of years the Israelites 'were enslaved' in Egypt and the ages of the various 'patriarchs' etc. so they too do NOT show a 480 year weltanshauung as does the much later Masoretic text (which did NOT gain ascendancy until after the Council of Javneh in AD 90, which was spearheaded by R. Hillel II, who used his OWN Babylonian proto-Masoretic version of the Torah as his own source, and forced it down the throats of rabinnic Jews after Jerusalem was ground to powder by Rome in AD 70.

So you cannot say, x lived so many years before y if you have at least 3 contradictory torah texts all of which use different dating schema.




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