Thirteen Goals of a Witch

Originally posted by Dr Love

Originally posted by caitlinfae
Why minus the witchcraft, Dr Love?

Why not?

While I try not to push my beliefs off on anyone else, I think I would be remiss if I didn't at least say in so many words "leave that stuff alone". It's nothing personal.

Peace

I don't think anyone here is pushing their beliefs, but simply opening it up for discussion, which I hope will be productive....sadly, if past discussions about this subject are any method of measurement, I can only dream! But we have to try, and be positive about it......

I'm not taking this personally at all, and I hope I don't hijack Hazelnut's thread, which I believe is a really valuable spiritual lesson for us to ponder on. "That stuff" that you refer to is a very deeply held and personal issue for me, and I'm wondering how much you truly understand about how it works, before you can dismiss it like this..... If you wanna ask me anything, fire away hun. I mean it.

Isn't describing it as "That stuff", which sounds derogatory really, pushing your beliefs on others too? Just a thought.......maybe worth discussion I hope?.....

reply to post by caitlinfae


Thus proving that we don't agree on everything. While I consider myself a Wiccan (and part-time Witch), I practice a 'religion' with only one follower, ME! Don't get caught up in the semantics of words or labels. That belongs to 'organized' religions.

reply to post by Hazelnut


Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, and Judaism all in theory believe in rising above materialism, devoting your life to service of others, knowing thyself, etc.

In practice, that is another matter.

You can say that those are the thirteen goals of a "witch" but as witchcraft is not organized (are you Gardner, folk, etc) it reminds me of the Pirates of the Caribbean pirate's code--more of guidelines than actual rules.

I think religion is like your clothing. You need it to warm your body, it helps you express yourself/self-identify, but it is not "you". We don't need religion to talk to God. We are just tribal creatures, barely being able to go to the bathroom without someone else, so we gravitate to religions that allow us to herd up.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against religion. I go to Mass myself, but I also know that I don't need it to be one with G-d.

I also take offense to people saying "Christians killed people" when they are obviously not Christians if they are killing people. They are pretending to be Christians. I'm a "Christian" and I mind my own business, do my own thing, I don't care what you do in your home, etc. How come Christians aren't judged by people like myself or Bono, and only judged by the Pat Robertson's of the world?

Wow! I'm a grouch today, huh?

reply to post by A Fortiori


You do know that things like the Crusades were sanctioned by the church, right? That christians have fought holy wars since they organized as a religion?

Yes, christians kill people.

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by caitlinfae

 

Thus proving that we don't agree on everything. While I consider myself a Wiccan (and part-time Witch), I practice a 'religion' with only one follower, ME! Don't get caught up in the semantics of words or labels. That belongs to 'organized' religions.

I completely agree with your approach...I take the same, as I believe that there is no "middle man", no organisation telling me how to relate to the Divine. In my relationship with what is sacred in my life, there is only me and it. Nothing in between, and I feel that the power of any organised religion is in making people believe that they need an intermediary, whether it's someone to translate a Latin bible, or talk to the spirit world for them. We should be doing this for ourselves.

Of course we shouldn't get caught up in semantics, cos it's a waste of time, but we also all have a right to self definition, and by saying that all witches are Wiccan, you were kind of at odds with how I define myself. But it's cool...we sorted it....

[edit on 1-9-2009 by caitlinfae]

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
reply to post by A Fortiori

 

You do know that things like the Crusades were sanctioned by the church, right? That christians have fought holy wars since they organized as a religion?

Yes, christians kill people.

To be fair, you should have said that past Christians have killed people. One cannot punish or hold responsible the actions of those who came before, on those who are here now. While history is replete with examples of this type of behavior, it cannot be said of modern Christians. This would be like saying 'White Americans enslave people' just because long dead white Americans did.

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
reply to post by A Fortiori

 

You do know that things like the Crusades were sanctioned by the church, right? That christians have fought holy wars since they organized as a religion?

Yes, christians kill people.

People calling themselves "Christians" killed people. Christianity at its inception was a pacifistic religion until the Romans adopted it. Its very tenants are pacifistic and service-oriented. If you don't follow the tenants then you can't call yourself a follower of that faith.

The Crusades were not about "Jesus" they were about money, about securing a very lucrative as far as trade was concerned area. The Inquisition was about robbing the Knights Templar, a very wealthy order. It was all about money.

And I repeat myself, are pagans bad because Rome was pagan and they invaded the crap out of everyone and imposed their Gods on them? Were the Druids bad because people in Gaul invaded the Goths? Where pagans bad because the Vikings invaded and conquered just about everyone and established elements of their religion and culture everywhere?

My answer is "no". People do bad things. Ideologies and religions are just tools, they don't "do" anything.

reply to post by caitlinfae


Actually, the point I was trying to make with that statement had nothing to do with the labels, but with the fact that some practice Majick (Witch) and some don't (Wiccan). Granted, these are my 'labels', and I could have worded it better. We all have our own personal 'labels', and I was in no way trying to shove mine on anyone. Language can just be tricky sometimes.

Reply to post by randyvs

Actually it is argued amongst those that can translate the source langauges of the Christain Bible that "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." is actually a misstranslation and what it actually says is "Thou shalt not suffer a POISONER to live.".


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic

How can any intelligent person believe such broad brush generalizations? A pity really that some do.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
Reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic

 

How can any intelligent person believe such broad brush generalizations? A pity really that some do.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

You're going to have to be a little more specific. I dont beleive anything I said was false.

Seems like a perfect list.
Perhaps witches were "hollywooded" to appear fearful, so the sheeple couldn't maintain their true balance...for easier control?

Either way, never seen the list before. Will apply some of those goals that I currently don't apply. haha.

Thanks for posting it!

reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic


Just a thought, but can we have just one spiritual based thread that doesn't degrade down to a battle over the right and wrong of Christianity? There are a TON of threads here to do that! It is just derailing this thread, and has nothing to do with the OP. I will even say PLEASE!

Thank you!

Modern witches are pleasant enough, with their ideals and apparent respect of nature, etc...

...until they go into a full-blown rant of how they hate christians, hate religion, hate christmas, hate this, hate that.

reply to post by Hazelnut


The High Priestess in me is sneaking out again to comment on that list.

I certainly hope it isn't in a specific order...

Merry Meet All,

Us Witches have a saying, "Do as thy Will, Harm ye none".

Blessed Be: Kernoonos......

reply to post by ravenshadow13


I don't know. I read it somewhere a couple of years ago and wrote it in my journal without citing the source. So I looked it up to give credits where due. It appears to be a list from a Cunningham book.

I don't know that any list of goals has to be achieved or focused on in any specific order. It would be helpful to have my thoughts in order before trying to master getting my words in order.

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic

 

Just a thought, but can we have just one spiritual based thread that doesn't degrade down to a battle over the right and wrong of Christianity? There are a TON of threads here to do that! It is just derailing this thread, and has nothing to do with the OP. I will even say PLEASE!

Thank you!

I did nothing of the sort. If you go back and read my origional post, it was directly in response the the OP.

My other posts were simply replying to the christian-apologists who immediately jumped in and told me I was wrong, even though everything I said was 100% factually correct.

You're welcome.

reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic


Christian apologist? How is pointing out that humans have historically committed brutality and used various ideologies to justify it apologizing for a religion?

It is far too easy to write off our bad deeds, our ability within to become aggressive and evil on a religion, a book, a rock band, etc.

People kill people, guns don't kill people.
People kill people, not socialism.
People kill people, not Christianity.
People kill people, not nationalism.

People do bad things and justify it using whatever tool they have in front of them be it the Bible or violent video games.

Moreover, name a culture that didn't brutalize a weaker culture? You can't. Every nation in the world has it's closet filled to the brim with skeletons of minorities and fringe societies terminated for their gain.

People are abysmal creatures.

Have to check in here, I call myself a Wiccan, for some 25 years now. don't practice rituals or Magick much anymore, but I honor the Goddess, and the Females I run into. We are very peaceful, and we follow the Golden Rule, and the Rule of Three. Blessed Be.
Love and Light to all Pagans and Wiccans in here.