It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Was Jesus an Alchemist??

page: 1
5

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 11:38 AM
link   
I have never been one to believe that Jesus was the son of god. I just thought he was a person.... a really important person, smart, thought outside the square etc, perhaps even a sorcerer, then he was later metamorphosed as a demi god.

Lately I have been doing some research on Alchemy I have got a lot of information online and from the book The Secret Teachings of all Ages and these alchemist could do some incredible stuff,(I am actually going to do a home study course on alchemy I can’t wait).
The first thing that got me thinking he is an alchemist is, what you have to do to become and Master Alchemist.

In alchemy is found again the perpetuation of the Universal Mystery; for as surely as Jesus died upon the cross, Hiram (CHiram) at the west gate of the Temple, Orpheus on the banks of the river Hebros, Christna on the banks of the Ganges, and Osiris in the coffin prepared by Typhon, so in alchemy, unless the elements first die, the Great Work cannot be achieved. The stages of the alchemical processes can be traced in the lives and activities of nearly all the world Saviors and teachers, and also among the mythologies of several nations. It is said in the Bible that "except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." In alchemy it is declared that without putrefaction the Great Work cannot be accomplished. What is it that dies on the cross, is buried in the tomb of the Mysteries, and that dies also in the retort and becomes black with putrefaction? Also, what is it that does this same thing in the nature of man, that he may rise again, phœnix-like, from his own ashes (caput mortuum)?

So basically my understanding is that you have to "die" leave your old ways and be born with a new understanding of the world, as Jesus died and rose again.

Reading about Alchemy i have learn't that they kept a lot secrets in symbolism on drawings / paintings. A lot of Alchemy art work has either a Triangle (usually upside down), square and or a cross, also very common is the Sun and Moon.
Here is an image of The Azoth with an explanation of Alchemy imagery www.alchemylab.com...
Next
I was looking at a map of Bethlehem

Notice in this image on the bottom left it has the crucifixion site of Jesus with a sun and moon above him, its the first time i have ever notice anything like it, then i came across another one
Top Left.


Then i got curious and started looking at more images, the more i looked the more images i found of the sun and moon above pics of Jesus.

This is Image is in ST Theresa Church with a Moon and Sun being carried by Angels


More images.





and there are plenty more just take a look around.

Is there a reason that anyone knows why some images have a sun and moon. Perhaps they are only on images drawn by Alchemist?


What are your guys thoughts on this??


[edit on 1/9/2009 by wycky]




posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 11:43 AM
link   
It is rather strange that there is a moon and a sun on every picture.

Alchemy? I don't know, but it is worth researching. Good job.



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 12:15 PM
link   
I don't know about Jesus being an Alchemist but S&F for putting something original in CiR.



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 12:22 PM
link   
If you wish to use Scripture as a basis for your belief that Jesus is an alchemist, in this reference His death, burial and resurrection, then you are really stretching the context of Scripture. You're then creating a mistake in interpretation (hermeneutics) in that you're reading into the text a preconceived notion or idea rather than reading out of Scripture.

Jesus did not need to be "born again" but rather people do. There is nothing mystical about it in the sense that you become anything other than a "new creature" or better said your heart and mind are renewed. You move from a state of unbelief to one of belief.

In regards to pictures of Jesus, Jesus never left us with any image of Himself. Why? Because people would then worship His image rather than Him. Notice how the Roman Catholic religion is filled with images and symbols? No one knows what Jesus looked like, nor Mary for that matter.

How is it that someone can claim, "Look an image of Mother Mary in my grilled cheese sandwich!!" When we have no clue what she looked like or what she wore? It's because we have these pictures of her created by artists and those images have stuck with us, thus we see her (and Jesus) in all sorts of things.

If you go to Brazil Mary takes on their ethnic look and dress. Same with Italy, Mexico etc. If you go to Germany Jesus is pictured with blue eyes and light hair, why? Well because they wouldn't want to paint a Jesus with dark skin, dark eyes, perhaps a large nose and curly hair. They wouldn't identify with that.

Look at the quest for "relics". What power does the chalice hold over anyone or anything, what about a remnant of Jesus cross or robe? You see now what would happen if Jesus left an image behind of Himself?



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 01:05 PM
link   

Is there a reason that anyone knows why some images have a sun and moon. Perhaps they are only on images drawn by Alchemist?

The reference could be Christian.

All the synoptic gospels have a solar eclipse at the time of the Crucifixion ( Matthew 27: 45, Mark 15: 33, Luke 23: 44-45). In Acts 2: 20 Peter says that he is quoting the prophet Joel:

The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the coming of the great and splendid day of the Lord.

and Peter tells of these things as having been fulfilled by recent happenings, speaking to those in Jerusalem at Pentecost.

There was an eclipse of the sun, partially visible from Jerusalem at midday local time, on March 19, 33 CE.

eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov...

(Timing and visibility fom Jerusalem based on an offline astronomy program.)

There was also an eclipse of the moon on April 3, 33 CE:

eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov...

Solar eclipses only occur at new moon, and Passover is at full moon, which is when lunar eclipses occur. So, there seems to be some confusion about the eclipses, and their timing relative to the Crucifixion.

But Peter is clearly impressed that both occurred close to the Crucifixion. And that, I think, is the root of the iconography.

Note also that Passover is itself the celebration of a solar event, the vernal equinox, as reckoned with a lunar calendar. So there is a joint solar-lunar theme built into the Passover timing of the Crucifixion.

Hope that helps.

[edit on 1-9-2009 by eight bits]

[edit on 1-9-2009 by eight bits]



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 05:07 PM
link   

Originally posted by TangoVooDoo
In regards to pictures of Jesus, Jesus never left us with any image of Himself. Why? Because people would then worship His image rather than Him. Notice how the Roman Catholic religion is filled with images and symbols? No one knows what Jesus looked like, nor Mary for that matter.



I’m not referring to the actual image of Jesus himself, just questioning the sun and the moon in the image. But you have bought up good a question.
Jesus was worshipped by thousands how could no one have drawn / painted an image of him??
If you start from today and go back 10,000 years there are images / statues (even rock paintings) of everyone who has been worshiped or idolised. Kings, Queens, Presidents, religious figures, Movie stars, singers ect.
Why is there not an actual image of Jesus?? why wouldn't someone want to keep a picture of the son of god??
doesn't make sense to me



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 05:29 PM
link   
reply to post by eight bits
 


Thats interesting eight bits.
If that is the case and has been documented i would expect to see it in the majority images of the crucifixion not just some of them. Also something i have notice is that the Sun and the Moon have faces as does the sun and moon in Alchemy images.
To me, that doesn't seem very Christian like.


[edit on 1/9/2009 by wycky]



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 09:44 PM
link   
You are more likely to find that some of the apostles were alchemists/masons rather than Jesus being one. Any significance of Jesus being an alchemist is probably tied into older pagan religions that had the same personification in the likeness of Jesus. I can't remember the common names of the personifications at the moments (so I'm not gonna guess), yet I have a lecture (very long 15 CDs) that probably covers the subjects. I'll update if I trace them down again.

[edit on 1-9-2009 by dzonatas]



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 09:56 PM
link   
reply to post by wycky
 


Because during the period of his lifetime he was not the "son of god". He was a jewish messiah, one of quite a few.
The cults that grew up after his death transmuted his teachings and his story into the warped representation that currently exists in the cult that grew up to be a religion.



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 11:58 PM
link   

Originally posted by EdCase512
reply to post by wycky
 


Because during the period of his lifetime he was not the "son of god". He was a jewish messiah, one of quite a few.
The cults that grew up after his death transmuted his teachings and his story into the warped representation that currently exists in the cult that grew up to be a religion.



Ok good, because that’s what I have always believed as I said above he was a man maybe an extraordinary man but still just a man (like an alchemist maybe....
) and was later personified as the "Son of God". This is why I assume there is not really much reference and no imagery to him outside of the bible.



posted on Sep, 2 2009 @ 05:18 AM
link   

i would expect to see it in the majority images of the crucifixion not just some of them.

Other details of your examples vary, too. Three nails or four? You have posted examples of both. The "three nails of the Passion" image is (I am told) important in Masonic lore. So, the number of nails matters, and matters to those influenced by Alchemy, but varies with the artist.

There is also the nature of the phenomenon. If the background is dark, has not an eclipse been depicted?

As to the faces, the source of the idea that the moon has a face is obvious. If the moon is to be depicted with a face, then parallelism alone would give the Sun a face to match.

From one of the websites you linked:

Beside the dove and above Christ’s arms are angels holding representations of the sun and moon. Their use goes back centuries to when they were signs of Apollo, the Sun God, and Diana, the Moon Goddess. St. Augustine viewed their use as symbols of the two testaments: the Old (the moon) could only be understood by the light shed on it by the New (the Sun).
The sun and moon also could refer to a description of Mary in early liturgies: “Beautiful as the moon, bright as the sun.”


www.rc.net...

It's funny, a lot of the neopagans complain that the Christians stole pagan motifs and incorporated them into Christian worship. Here's a contemporary Catholic site, apparently in agreement.



Anyway, the point is that 17th Century alchemists cannot take credit for images that are the common heritage of humankind, and have been with us much longer than alchemy has been, at least in any form familiar to us, the living.



posted on Sep, 2 2009 @ 06:57 AM
link   

Originally posted by eight bits

Thanks for the info, i had no idea the nails had anything to do with anything, interesting stuff.



Anyway, the point is that 17th Century alchemists cannot take credit for images that are the common heritage of humankind, and have been with us much longer than alchemy has been, at least in any form familiar to us, the living.


I know they can not take credit for the Sun and the moon but do you realise how old Alchemy is:

Alchemy dates back to a time when our two cultures of science and religion were part if one true philosophy, and the Alchemy theory can be traced back to a single document known throughout history as the Emerald Tablet. According to legend, the Tablet was brought by mysterious visitor to Egypt over 12,000 years ago, a time the ancient text referred to as Zep Tepi, when good like beings roamed the earth


Source - My Text book on Alchemy (just came this afternoon
)

[edit on 2/9/2009 by wycky]



posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 01:57 PM
link   
Theirs always something to look at like this. The Apostle paul makes it clear that anything that is hung on a tree is condemd, the spanish version gives it another meaning by not calling it tree but calling it "wooden plank" MADERO. So clearly to him the whole image of the cross is nothing but a tool that was used at that time to kill criminals. Humans at that time wanted to keep jesus so they kept the cross in mind. Giving it a holy significance. But if at that time jesus wasn't cruzified instead was sent to this time to get electricuted every one in the world would be caring a electric chair around their necks and in their congregations. So I don't think that the cross has nothing to do with alchemy sense alchemy is older than jesus. but the sun and the moon make an interesting point. And another thing is that he took water and turned it in to wine. Alchemy at its premature stage don't you think.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 12:29 AM
link   
reply to post by wycky
 


Terrible title, but interesting thread. Obviously this is a question that cannot be answered in such as way that would satisfy everyone here as there is little physical evidence (make that zero), to anything reguarding the allegorical myth that is Jesus. I mean the absolutely true historical biography that is Jesus... well, you get the picture.

Christian symbolism is a very nice place to hide hermetic symbolism, due in part to the tendency to borrow from previous religions. Alchemy moved from Egypt into Arab lands and then into the West after the crusaides and was integrated into Gothic cathedrals per Fulcanelli's Mysterys of the Cathedrals. So, yes, there is loads of alchemical symbolism in "Christian" art, but beyond that, symbolism can very easily be applied to other frameworks when such becomes popular and easy to remember. Sure the amanita muscaria mushroom forms a Tau cross and a grail shape, among other religious symbols, but it is probably not the source for those symbols; they have simply been applied to the mushroom because it was a pretty good framework for them. Same goes for Jesus and his life.

Some theories hold that Jesus was initiated in Egyptian mysteries. If this is true then he probably was an alchemist among other things. Baconian ciphers in the Shakespere plays which Francis Bacon's team of writers may of authored have revealed phrases such as "Jesus Christ initiated under Great Pyramid." It's probably not true, but you get the point that there's no shortage of retellings of his life, if he ever lived at all.

About the art, notice how the moon is always on Jesus's left/lunar side and the sun is on his right/solar side? That's not a coincidence, nor is it a depiction of actual stellar events. For one, the stars, the sun and the moon all rise in the east because of the earth's rotation. Second, they're not overlapping as they should be in an eclipse. And thirdly, check out any first degree Freemasonic tracing board.

Jesus is being depicted as the product of the pairing of Sol and Luna, the King and Queen (this is known as "coniunctio/conjunctio" in alchemy), which would make him the "Blazing Star" on a tracing board, Horus of the Egyptian trinity, and so on.

"The Sun and Moon ... represent the two grand principles ... the male and the female ... both shed their light upon their offspirng, the Blazing Star, or Horus ..." - Albert PIke, Morals & Dogma, p. 13-14

Here's another picture of Jesus which mirrors that of the famous depiction of the Emerald Tablet:



In it, Jesus is being flogged, but below him is a lion with two bodies and one head. That same image is seen at the bottom of the depiction of the Emerald Tablet. Above the lion(s) is a man who represents duality, he holds two axes which divide things in two, and he is half white and half black. Jesus said "I have come to divide."

Below, Jesus is compared to the symbol of the serpent on the cross. The second pic even has the three nails of the crucifixion (4 nails are used in the Latin Rite, 3 in the Greek Rite).




There's plenty of reasons to use a serpent, so I'll let your imagination take over. Connections can also be made between the alchemical symbol of the pelican feeding it's young with it's own blood and Jesus asking us to drink his blood. Anyways, I want to end it on a very alchemical souding quote from William Henry's Blue Apples:

"The Gospel of Luke says Jesus’ father Joseph was a son of Hel. In Judeo-Christian terminology Hell is a place to be avoided at all costs. Originally, however, Hel was the goddess’ fiery furnace or womb of transformation; a place where men were transformed into gods.

The Book of Revelation calls Hel the Pit of Abaddon [...]

For example, Jesus spent his three days between Crucifixion and resurrection in Joseph’s tomb. Some Christians believe Jesus spent these three days fighting demons in Hell.

[...] Rather than a tomb, Jesus would have spent three days in a womb of transformation."


(wycky, I talk about this type of stuff here, if you're interested.)

Edit: #1 fixed image tags. #2 fixed itallic tag.

[edit on 10/16/2009 by ViolatoR]

[edit on 10/16/2009 by ViolatoR]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 12:48 AM
link   
The "cross" is basically the third eye. Dieing on the cross means reaching the third eye in full consciousness while living. This is the start of the spiritual journey but still a high status in it's own right and almost impossible to attain. Reaching the third eye in full consciousness means acquiring Allof the ahymsa powers outlined by Patanjali. People pretend and pretend that they have attained this stage or that dimension but the reality is that if they don't have full control of those attributes they are just caught in an illusion.

Alchemy, mysticism are just names given to various forms of inner questing of the individual towards a higher awareness. But the spirit is so lost and week and helpless against the forces of deception that little if anything is every really and truly accomplished by one's self. It can be said that any mystic is an alchemist in the sense that they are trying to transform their consciousness inwards. Physical alchemy is an outward expression and outward is the opposite of inward and upward.



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 08:30 AM
link   
A many chapters of The Bible is a Spiritual Stories started with hidden words (What if Demon With Us?).

the knowledgeable to any story or tell can perceive the truth or the fabricated parts of it, but who do not wants any kind of knowledge just wants to be a stories teller must telling the story as it should be a useful not historical or to change the imagination to reality in bad way, this is the visual answer for (What if Demon With Us?).

and this is what we are inside, inside a combination between spiritual dreams and visions converted to real in force not in logic rely on some fabricated historical Text.

for reminding: the era of Messiah, Jesus Christ was in combination between the spiritual (mysticism) and physical world (Spiritual Chemically Drinks).

The spiritual world is the world of every thing, The Physical world is the world of Logic (materialism) and any thing not proved physically is a magic or imagination or A Miracle.

Gene & genie - jinni - jinn > those words are nearby in vocal > in Arabic writing > Jann > (engage) is the extracted word.

in spiritually the Genes are the assembled (inborn, genetic) part of you're body, head and soul > the assembled computer by one company (IBM for example).

or assembled as conformed computer peaces (compatibility) > compatible operating system is the nature (natural) disposition (computed Genes).

the engaged (groups, cabals, communities, teams) are belong to the compatible (nature) or by recomputed nature (brainwash)
or by (shock impact).

Genesis = (genes – sis - sins – nee – ensign – Genies - sing)
First book of the Bible.
Its name taken from its first verse, means "beginning = (engine)" Genesis = (Gene) provides the creation = Earth story for Judaism and Christianity and begins the history of the Israelite people. In addition to God's creation of the universe = (inverse), it includes the story of Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, Noah and the Flood, the Tower of Babel, and God's covenant with the three patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, concluding with the story of Jacob's son Joseph. It is traditionally ascribed to Moses, but modern scholarship has identified at least three literary strains in it, dating from 950 BC to the 5th century BC, though incorporating material from much earlier.
It is one of the five books that make up the Pentateuch, Torah.
Torah is the law of God as revealed to Moses and recorded in the Pentateuch.
Pentateuch + Genesis = genius = geniuses

The important part of this subject is hacking you're imaginations from tow ways:

when you had something like disagreement or quarrel with any one or you had saw a passive attitude or accident and you did not had a chance to change something or leaved that case without finishing it, you're imagination (soul) goes around that by you're thinking.

Any thing you had did or going to do physically or spiritually has been recorded.

The recorded data is the elements that what the Films makers rely on, editing it by (cut, past, insert) same frames or by new elements (Self Forgery - Personify).

amazement from the first test, always the first test of any mystical mater will make you under control of what you saw.

what you had saw is you're memory with some stories has been edited (fabricated) to be under control.

Films Forgery is very easy in height technology studios, so they can use you're data to be personified by Evil actor.

Do not rely on any Film that did not belong to the reality (Logic) without (investigating, verification, questioning, and inquiry).



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 08:31 AM
link   
Dream: > Series of thoughts, images, or emotions occurring during sleep, particularly sleep accompanied by rapid eye movement (REM sleep).
Dream reports range from the very ordinary and realistic to the fantastic and surreal. Humans have always attached great importance to dreams, which have been variously viewed as windows to the sacred, the past and the future, or the world of the dead. Dreams have provided creative solutions to intellectual and emotional problems and have offered ideas for artistic pursuits. A type of cognitive synthesis that facilitates conscious insight may occur subconsciously during dreaming. The most famous theory of the significance of dreams is the psychoanalytic model of Sigmund Freud; in Freud's view, desires that are ordinarily repressed (hidden from consciousness) because they represent forbidden impulses are given expression in dreams, though often in disguised (i.e., symbolic) form.

Visions: > the faculty or state of being able to see > the ability to think about or plan the future with imagination or wisdom > a mental image of what the future will or could be like> an experience of seeing something in a dream or trance, or as a supernatural apparition >a person or sight of unusual beauty.

Spiritual Dreams: (completely and exactly) Films Industry by height technology) made by who had an immaterial dealing permeation from both sides same as (Documentary Films).

Amytal a barbiturate drug used as a sedative and a hypnotic.

the main weapon for brain washing.



posted on Oct, 30 2010 @ 11:20 PM
link   
Alchemy had been extremely popular & had many followers up until the birth & rise of Jesus. Alchemists essentially ceased being upon the birth of Christians. One might say Christ transcended Alchemy into Christianity, taking the basic elements of Alchemy and making them transcendental over Christianity.

You said: "So basically my understanding is that you have to "die" leave your old ways and be born with a new understanding of the world, as Jesus died and rose again."
From the Christian viewpoint this would be True. From the Alchemical viewpoint one would transcend or transmute (ie: change) without literally having to die.
Jesus transmuted from Jesus to Christ by dying, this is true.
Alchemists transmuted from average beings to enlightened beings by creating the Philosopher's Stone.
The process of creating the Philosopher's Stone required the Alchemist to perfect the self as he or she perfected the Stone. Since early history man began trying to express the self through the spirit or soul of a stone (note how we all live on one). The forms of man & stone constantly compared to each other.

The first alchemist was Thoth; an extra-terrestrial who came to earth to give humans the gifts of language (written & spoken) & Alchemy...Thoth was half man & half bird.
All secret teachings of alchemy were written in a code known as ''the language of the birds", which only initiated Alchemists spoke. Each of seven alchemical phases were represented by a different bird.

The alchemical symbols were adopted by Jesus to form Christianity. He didn't necessarily have to be an alchemist to adopt the alchemical symbols.
The question of "Jesus having been an Alchemist" would depend upon evidence that I do not possess.

Parallels between Alchemy & Christianity:
Thoth => God
The Three Essentials (Mercury, Sulfur, Salt) => Holy Trinity (Holy Ghost, Father, Son)
Sacred Marriage (of Sun & Moon) => Marriage of Joseph & Mary
Divine Child (of Sun & Moon) => Jesus
Philosopher's Stone => Holy Grail



new topics

top topics



 
5

log in

join