It is rather strange that there is a moon and a sun on every picture.

Alchemy? I don't know, but it is worth researching. Good job.

I don't know about Jesus being an Alchemist but S&F for putting something original in CiR.

If you wish to use Scripture as a basis for your belief that Jesus is an alchemist, in this reference His death, burial and resurrection, then you are really stretching the context of Scripture. You're then creating a mistake in interpretation (hermeneutics) in that you're reading into the text a preconceived notion or idea rather than reading out of Scripture.

Jesus did not need to be "born again" but rather people do. There is nothing mystical about it in the sense that you become anything other than a "new creature" or better said your heart and mind are renewed. You move from a state of unbelief to one of belief.

In regards to pictures of Jesus, Jesus never left us with any image of Himself. Why? Because people would then worship His image rather than Him. Notice how the Roman Catholic religion is filled with images and symbols? No one knows what Jesus looked like, nor Mary for that matter.

How is it that someone can claim, "Look an image of Mother Mary in my grilled cheese sandwich!!" When we have no clue what she looked like or what she wore? It's because we have these pictures of her created by artists and those images have stuck with us, thus we see her (and Jesus) in all sorts of things.

If you go to Brazil Mary takes on their ethnic look and dress. Same with Italy, Mexico etc. If you go to Germany Jesus is pictured with blue eyes and light hair, why? Well because they wouldn't want to paint a Jesus with dark skin, dark eyes, perhaps a large nose and curly hair. They wouldn't identify with that.

Look at the quest for "relics". What power does the chalice hold over anyone or anything, what about a remnant of Jesus cross or robe? You see now what would happen if Jesus left an image behind of Himself?

Originally posted by TangoVooDoo
In regards to pictures of Jesus, Jesus never left us with any image of Himself. Why? Because people would then worship His image rather than Him. Notice how the Roman Catholic religion is filled with images and symbols? No one knows what Jesus looked like, nor Mary for that matter.

I’m not referring to the actual image of Jesus himself, just questioning the sun and the moon in the image. But you have bought up good a question.
Jesus was worshipped by thousands how could no one have drawn / painted an image of him??
If you start from today and go back 10,000 years there are images / statues (even rock paintings) of everyone who has been worshiped or idolised. Kings, Queens, Presidents, religious figures, Movie stars, singers ect.
Why is there not an actual image of Jesus?? why wouldn't someone want to keep a picture of the son of god??
doesn't make sense to me

You are more likely to find that some of the apostles were alchemists/masons rather than Jesus being one. Any significance of Jesus being an alchemist is probably tied into older pagan religions that had the same personification in the likeness of Jesus. I can't remember the common names of the personifications at the moments (so I'm not gonna guess), yet I have a lecture (very long 15 CDs) that probably covers the subjects. I'll update if I trace them down again.

[edit on 1-9-2009 by dzonatas]

Originally posted by eight bits

Thanks for the info, i had no idea the nails had anything to do with anything, interesting stuff.

Anyway, the point is that 17th Century alchemists cannot take credit for images that are the common heritage of humankind, and have been with us much longer than alchemy has been, at least in any form familiar to us, the living.

I know they can not take credit for the Sun and the moon but do you realise how old Alchemy is:

Alchemy dates back to a time when our two cultures of science and religion were part if one true philosophy, and the Alchemy theory can be traced back to a single document known throughout history as the Emerald Tablet. According to legend, the Tablet was brought by mysterious visitor to Egypt over 12,000 years ago, a time the ancient text referred to as Zep Tepi, when good like beings roamed the earth

Source - My Text book on Alchemy (just came this afternoon )

[edit on 2/9/2009 by wycky]

Theirs always something to look at like this. The Apostle paul makes it clear that anything that is hung on a tree is condemd, the spanish version gives it another meaning by not calling it tree but calling it "wooden plank" MADERO. So clearly to him the whole image of the cross is nothing but a tool that was used at that time to kill criminals. Humans at that time wanted to keep jesus so they kept the cross in mind. Giving it a holy significance. But if at that time jesus wasn't cruzified instead was sent to this time to get electricuted every one in the world would be caring a electric chair around their necks and in their congregations. So I don't think that the cross has nothing to do with alchemy sense alchemy is older than jesus. but the sun and the moon make an interesting point. And another thing is that he took water and turned it in to wine. Alchemy at its premature stage don't you think.

The "cross" is basically the third eye. Dieing on the cross means reaching the third eye in full consciousness while living. This is the start of the spiritual journey but still a high status in it's own right and almost impossible to attain. Reaching the third eye in full consciousness means acquiring Allof the ahymsa powers outlined by Patanjali. People pretend and pretend that they have attained this stage or that dimension but the reality is that if they don't have full control of those attributes they are just caught in an illusion.

Alchemy, mysticism are just names given to various forms of inner questing of the individual towards a higher awareness. But the spirit is so lost and week and helpless against the forces of deception that little if anything is every really and truly accomplished by one's self. It can be said that any mystic is an alchemist in the sense that they are trying to transform their consciousness inwards. Physical alchemy is an outward expression and outward is the opposite of inward and upward.

A many chapters of The Bible is a Spiritual Stories started with hidden words (What if Demon With Us?).

the knowledgeable to any story or tell can perceive the truth or the fabricated parts of it, but who do not wants any kind of knowledge just wants to be a stories teller must telling the story as it should be a useful not historical or to change the imagination to reality in bad way, this is the visual answer for (What if Demon With Us?).

and this is what we are inside, inside a combination between spiritual dreams and visions converted to real in force not in logic rely on some fabricated historical Text.

for reminding: the era of Messiah, Jesus Christ was in combination between the spiritual (mysticism) and physical world (Spiritual Chemically Drinks).

The spiritual world is the world of every thing, The Physical world is the world of Logic (materialism) and any thing not proved physically is a magic or imagination or A Miracle.

Gene & genie - jinni - jinn > those words are nearby in vocal > in Arabic writing > Jann > (engage) is the extracted word.

in spiritually the Genes are the assembled (inborn, genetic) part of you're body, head and soul > the assembled computer by one company (IBM for example).

or assembled as conformed computer peaces (compatibility) > compatible operating system is the nature (natural) disposition (computed Genes).

the engaged (groups, cabals, communities, teams) are belong to the compatible (nature) or by recomputed nature (brainwash)
or by (shock impact).

Genesis = (genes – sis - sins – nee – ensign – Genies - sing)
First book of the Bible.
Its name taken from its first verse, means "beginning = (engine)" Genesis = (Gene) provides the creation = Earth story for Judaism and Christianity and begins the history of the Israelite people. In addition to God's creation of the universe = (inverse), it includes the story of Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, Noah and the Flood, the Tower of Babel, and God's covenant with the three patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, concluding with the story of Jacob's son Joseph. It is traditionally ascribed to Moses, but modern scholarship has identified at least three literary strains in it, dating from 950 BC to the 5th century BC, though incorporating material from much earlier.
It is one of the five books that make up the Pentateuch, Torah.
Torah is the law of God as revealed to Moses and recorded in the Pentateuch.
Pentateuch + Genesis = genius = geniuses

The important part of this subject is hacking you're imaginations from tow ways:

when you had something like disagreement or quarrel with any one or you had saw a passive attitude or accident and you did not had a chance to change something or leaved that case without finishing it, you're imagination (soul) goes around that by you're thinking.

Any thing you had did or going to do physically or spiritually has been recorded.

The recorded data is the elements that what the Films makers rely on, editing it by (cut, past, insert) same frames or by new elements (Self Forgery - Personify).

amazement from the first test, always the first test of any mystical mater will make you under control of what you saw.

what you had saw is you're memory with some stories has been edited (fabricated) to be under control.

Films Forgery is very easy in height technology studios, so they can use you're data to be personified by Evil actor.

Do not rely on any Film that did not belong to the reality (Logic) without (investigating, verification, questioning, and inquiry).

Dream: > Series of thoughts, images, or emotions occurring during sleep, particularly sleep accompanied by rapid eye movement (REM sleep).
Dream reports range from the very ordinary and realistic to the fantastic and surreal. Humans have always attached great importance to dreams, which have been variously viewed as windows to the sacred, the past and the future, or the world of the dead. Dreams have provided creative solutions to intellectual and emotional problems and have offered ideas for artistic pursuits. A type of cognitive synthesis that facilitates conscious insight may occur subconsciously during dreaming. The most famous theory of the significance of dreams is the psychoanalytic model of Sigmund Freud; in Freud's view, desires that are ordinarily repressed (hidden from consciousness) because they represent forbidden impulses are given expression in dreams, though often in disguised (i.e., symbolic) form.

Visions: > the faculty or state of being able to see > the ability to think about or plan the future with imagination or wisdom > a mental image of what the future will or could be like> an experience of seeing something in a dream or trance, or as a supernatural apparition >a person or sight of unusual beauty.

Spiritual Dreams: (completely and exactly) Films Industry by height technology) made by who had an immaterial dealing permeation from both sides same as (Documentary Films).

Amytal a barbiturate drug used as a sedative and a hypnotic.

the main weapon for brain washing.

Alchemy had been extremely popular & had many followers up until the birth & rise of Jesus. Alchemists essentially ceased being upon the birth of Christians. One might say Christ transcended Alchemy into Christianity, taking the basic elements of Alchemy and making them transcendental over Christianity.

You said: "So basically my understanding is that you have to "die" leave your old ways and be born with a new understanding of the world, as Jesus died and rose again."
From the Christian viewpoint this would be True. From the Alchemical viewpoint one would transcend or transmute (ie: change) without literally having to die.
Jesus transmuted from Jesus to Christ by dying, this is true.
Alchemists transmuted from average beings to enlightened beings by creating the Philosopher's Stone.
The process of creating the Philosopher's Stone required the Alchemist to perfect the self as he or she perfected the Stone. Since early history man began trying to express the self through the spirit or soul of a stone (note how we all live on one). The forms of man & stone constantly compared to each other.

The first alchemist was Thoth; an extra-terrestrial who came to earth to give humans the gifts of language (written & spoken) & Alchemy...Thoth was half man & half bird.
All secret teachings of alchemy were written in a code known as ''the language of the birds", which only initiated Alchemists spoke. Each of seven alchemical phases were represented by a different bird.

The alchemical symbols were adopted by Jesus to form Christianity. He didn't necessarily have to be an alchemist to adopt the alchemical symbols.
The question of "Jesus having been an Alchemist" would depend upon evidence that I do not possess.

Parallels between Alchemy & Christianity:
Thoth => God
The Three Essentials (Mercury, Sulfur, Salt) => Holy Trinity (Holy Ghost, Father, Son)
Sacred Marriage (of Sun & Moon) => Marriage of Joseph & Mary
Divine Child (of Sun & Moon) => Jesus
Philosopher's Stone => Holy Grail