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Britain facing blackouts for first time since 1970s

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posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by spacecowboy
reply to post by smurfy
 
As a Tory it was her dream of killing NUM. Did not NUM bring down the Tories in 1974? Sure the miners deserved a future for all their efforts, but by trying to influence the politics of Britain they were playing a very dicey game. A game they lost in 1979

I'm not sure about 1979, i'm talking about the miners strike 1984-1985. They were striking over jobs,(Arthur Scargill always said throughout that it was a planned confrontation to kill the mining industry, as it turns out he was right)the government didn't lose any social benefit rights out of the strike, but the miners families did. They were not allowed any special needs payments, and the family benefits they did get were cut because their husband was a striking miner,(the miner himself would not have any benefits that was standard for any strikers)Thatcher actually said that the government did this as a bargaining tool to get the miners back to work...the reality is that she did not want them back to work anyway, so just pure evil on her part. And some mines did not reopen after the strike being deemed as unsafe after no maintenance being done...do you really think it was the miners who prevented the maintenance engineers from continuing to work?

[edit on 1-9-2009 by smurfy]




posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by smurfy
 


The coal industry was overproducing and inefficient. Thatcher was more than happy to keep mines open, but less of them working more efficiently. The unions would not accept that and were stuck in the "all or nothing" frame of mind. Thatcher did not kill the coal industry, the coal industry killed the coal industry, at the behest of the unions. If it were not for the unions we would not need to import coal from Europe, and there would still be a coal industry.



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by quackers
 
Sorry Quackers, I can't be bothered to even answer that, other than it is a ridiculous contradiction in terms.



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by spacecowboy
 


Both China and India have made it clear they will not be participating in any initiatives to do with energy. We are bending over backwards and they are going to take advantage of us. This is wealth redistribution plain and simple. Environmental concerns are a cover story.

How many times do you see criticism of China and India even though they will be the source of most of the future pollution?



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 
Hi Blaine, it would be just hypochrisy to criticize China on the basis of being an industrial pollution producing country, since much of what is produced is under licence from western sources. Small things like your petrol mower, your Fender guitar, electronics these are made there. What has happened is that western countries have moved their "carbon footprint" over there and elsewhere and are reaping the profits. There is nothing so simple and straightforward is there. What is a pity is that the western countries have turned a blind eye on the actual production methods used in China for the western licenced goods.



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 06:46 PM
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Nuclear cannot be ramped up and down quickly, Correct? Not feasible.

What do you mean?

They have high capital costs and take a few years to built, yes?


It takes 12 to 20 years to build a power generation plant. I don't know about the UK but in the US the legal process takes 20 years or more.

It takes about 5 years to build a Nuclear Power Plant. I guess that's in Japan where they already have much of the infrastructure, no ridiculous laws regarding Nuclear power, and are using proven designs.

[edit on 1/9/2009 by C0bzz]



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 07:41 PM
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reply to post by quackers
 


Thatcher was an evil, vindictive bitch who constantly strove to prove she had bigger balls than most men.
Many of today's problems can be traced back to her administration and her stripping this country of it's assets.
She changed the very fabric of British society starting the change to the selfish, money orientated society we live in today.

Yes, there were problems with the unions but her answer was akin to smashing eggs with hammers.
She destroyed a whole industry just to prove that Scargill was wrong.
But guess what, Scargill said her agenda was to shut the coal industry and low and behold Britain has no coal industry at all today to talk about despite having countless coal deposits.

She used the police force illegally as her enforcers and turned brother against brother and father against son.
She must be very proud of herself.

But all of this is for another thread really.

My point was that the problems we face today with our energy policy, or lack of a coherent, efficient one, isn't only due to the total incompetence of this pathetic excuse of a government we have today but to Thatcher and her policies and every subsequent government since which has allowed this country to be gradually bled dry by foreign utility companies whilst not providing for the future needs and requirements of this country.
In fact, I think that some of the blame can be attached to dogmatic political and electoral systems we have which demands adherence to party line and doctrine above the requirements of it's citizens.



posted on Sep, 2 2009 @ 12:52 AM
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Hrmm


Demand for power from homes and businesses will exceed supply from the national grid within eight years, according to official figures.

The shortage of supplies will hit the equivalent of many as 16 million families for at least one hour during the year, it is forecast.



An hour a year GASP!




Why don't they just let the free market figure it out? I mean, the GOP says that's the way to fix healthcare....



posted on Sep, 2 2009 @ 04:23 AM
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reply to post by Taikonaut
 


I do not think so, you are saying that now you will not whine or moan about it. When it does happen to you, we will see which of us will be eating thier words. I know for a fact it certainly will not be me
.

[edit on 2-9-2009 by Laurauk]



posted on Sep, 2 2009 @ 04:28 AM
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reply to post by quackers
 


Oh right so those miners who lost thier jobs, that was not Thatchers fault eh


All those battles, the miner strikers had with the police, was not thatchers fault eh?


She brought the coal industry to thier knees, where were you when she done this?

She done the exact same thing with the steel industry also, brought that industry to its knees also.

She was more in to privitisation thatn whe was in favour or public/industrial services.

So your statment is baseless and ridiculous to say the least.



posted on Sep, 2 2009 @ 06:02 AM
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Yes Thatcher the milk snatcher was an evil vindictive bitch, but the miners strikes were not solely her fault, the unions share at least half of the responsibility. I know that after all these years there are still Scargill sympathisers, which is just pathetic really because if anyone is to blame for the fall of the coal industry, its him and his picket lines. Crying over spilled milk, still, a victim of their own ignorance.

The coal industry was failing and throwing even more public money at it was not going to fix the problem. Scargill and his ilk were not going to be happy till they had exteracted every last gram of coal, with the help of subsidies, something the government could no longer afford to do. So yeah, Scargill fanboys just piss me off with their romanticized notion of Scargill being the savour of a ill-trodden industry. Utter crap.


Oh yeah and just to add, most coal mines were closed in the 60's, by the then Labour government, not by Thatcher. Also there was not 1 power cut in the 11 year term of Thatcher, but there were in the early 70's which was as a direct result of strike action, not pitt closure. I know people hate Thatcher, and for good reason, but the whole coal industry thing, your blaming the wrong person. Meh.
[edit on 2-9-2009 by quackers]

[edit on 2-9-2009 by quackers]

[edit on 2-9-2009 by quackers]



posted on Sep, 2 2009 @ 07:30 AM
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Originally posted by quackers
Yes Thatcher the milk snatcher was an evil vindictive bitch, but the miners strikes were not solely her fault, the unions share at least half of the responsibility.


Of course it wasn't all her fault and the miners allowed themselves to be manipulated by Union leaders who were pursuing their own agenda.
However, Thatcher blew managed the situation by controlling MSM to portray the miners as evil people who were self indulgent and had little regard for the anyone else other than themselves.
This was pure nonsense and it is obvious that some people still believe the propaganda that was spouted by the MSM during this period.
She illegally used The Police force to provoke striking Miners and even used Agent Provocateurs to stir up trouble.
The NCB, like most Nationalised Industries of the time was not only over manned and suffering from outdated working practices but probably more importantly was severely mis-managed.
A compromise was required.
Thatcher chose to destroy and industry and whilst doing so she also destroyed whole communities and provided nothing in support for these people.
When she dies, I for one will have the party of my life!

But again we digress.



I know that after all these years there are still Scargill sympathisers, which is just pathetic really because if anyone is to blame for the fall of the coal industry, its him and his picket lines. Crying over spilled milk, still, a victim of their own ignorance.


Bollocks.
Scargill was prepared to compromise and negotiate, Thatcher wasn't, she wanted an unconditional return to work.

Scargill stated that Thatcher wanted to destroy the coal industry.
Nobody believed him.
The UK, despite vast deposits, currently has no coal industry.
Who was right?



The coal industry was failing and throwing even more public money at it was not going to fix the problem. Scargill and his ilk were not going to be happy till they had exteracted every last gram of coal, with the help of subsidies, something the government could no longer afford to do. So yeah, Scargill fanboys just piss me off with their romanticized notion of Scargill being the savour of a ill-trodden industry. Utter crap.


The coal industry required re-structuring throughout.
It needed professional managers from the private sector to be appointed whilst replacing outdated working practices.
This would have safe guarded jobs and made the industry far more profitable.
Those profits would have been re-generated into the country's economy instead of going abroad as at present.

Subsidies?
The only reason we could by coal so cheap from Poland at the time was because the Polish government subsidised their coal industry so much.
Pretty damn ironic don't you think!

Scargill fanboys?
Well I certainly ain't.
I found him arrogant and self-serving.
However, I can put aside my dislike for the man himself to recognise that he was right when he said Thatcher was using the Miners strike as an excuse to force through more anti-Union regulations and to destroy the Mining Industry.
And where are we today?
The Unions have no influence whatsoever and we have no mining industry to speak of.
Who was right?

It is interesting to see what Norman Tebbit has to say about it today.

www.guardian.co.uk...



Oh yeah and just to add, most coal mines were closed in the 60's, by the then Labour government, not by Thatcher. Also there was not 1 power cut in the 11 year term of Thatcher, but there were in the early 70's which was as a direct result of strike action, not pitt closure. I know people hate Thatcher, and for good reason, but the whole coal industry thing, your blaming the wrong person. Meh.


Can't deny what you said about Labour shutting the SW Wales pits down under the then Energy Minister Tony Benn!
I am no great fan of their's either!!



posted on Sep, 2 2009 @ 07:35 AM
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reply to post by ChemicalSubstance
 


Somehow i don't think i will be listening to that crap!!



posted on Sep, 2 2009 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by jdub297
 


The I would ask, if it is right then why have you not done this before the rest of us! If not then it is wrong.

Letme see you taken the jab first, give your children the jab first, then I will believe you! NOT!


I have a windmill.

I have 3 stripper sells.

My 2 wells deliver ALL my water ( I have 3 municipal taps that are unused),

Solar power feeds and waters my livestock.

I do the rest.



jw



posted on Sep, 2 2009 @ 08:49 AM
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reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
 





Somehow i don't think i will be listening to that crap!!


Only kidding, I don't blame ya. I'm just as bad for sitting in the dark, it gets worse when you live in a basement with no windows, if you stay in over the weekend the light kills your eyes when you go outside, glad I got my attic conversion sorted, or I think I might of died from a vitamin D deficiency



posted on Sep, 2 2009 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by jdub297

Originally posted by DOADOA
wow, 1 hour in a year without power......wowwwww. a whole hour from 8,766 hours. people can like totally umm starve to death in one hour without power. wowwwwwww

That's the good news!

What about an hour,- or1/5, or 2 hours.?


You expect that what you're told is the truth?

Now, I'd be all for complete darkness for a few hours each night - you'd be amazed.


[edit on 2-9-2009 by jdub297]



posted on Sep, 2 2009 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


By the time Thatcher decided she'd had enough, the coal industry was costing the British tax payer over £700 million a year. It needed more than restructuring. Scargill was demanding even more money from the government for employee wages before he'd even consider backing down, and in an industry that was already being heavily subsidised by the tax payer, that just simply was not an option. You simply don't go throwing good money after bad.

Its moot, its history and nothing can be done about it. But when all is said and done, the Unions chose the wrong person to play hard ball with.



posted on Sep, 2 2009 @ 01:52 PM
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To change the subject back to today, what about a domestic Rotor? As far as I know in my locale it costs about £10.000 to have installed. and some have gone up already,(we have no shortage of 'flippin' wind here
) and there may be a fast track to planning permission. You can also sell back to the National Grid to recoup the costs. Any other suggestions? maybe fuel cells like the new Honda.



posted on Sep, 2 2009 @ 02:17 PM
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Well it may have been a plan to kill off the miners for sure, the miners were fighting for the present situation but the Tories knew what the miners had done to them in 1974 and knew they would try it on again. If somebody is trying to finish you then you finish them first................ regardless of geological economics

[edit on 2-9-2009 by spacecowboy]



posted on Sep, 2 2009 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by smurfy
To change the subject back to today, what about a domestic Rotor? As far as I know in my locale it costs about £10.000 to have installed. and some have gone up already,(we have no shortage of 'flippin' wind here
) and there may be a fast track to planning permission. You can also sell back to the National Grid to recoup the costs. Any other suggestions? maybe fuel cells like the new Honda.


Well it might be more viable in a windy non urban area but I keep reading that most domestic rotors are a waste of time. Photovoltaic Cells are generally more effective for electricity generation (water mills are best) but are still very, very expensive.

In a well insulated home, Solar water heaters are very effective, followed by ground source heat pumps (again, bloody expensive). It is now possible to go completly off grid for heating in the UK. But going off grid for electricity generation is still well nigh impossible for most of us.



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