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convince an evolutionist that the God of Scripture is real?

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posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:15 PM
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reply to post by lagnar
 


Yes you are right. Religion is very much so funded, but by individuals. Science is funded way more by government.




posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:16 PM
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im talking about america, you know the place where you are not allowed to do religion in school but you can do science, you know the place where we are supposedly allowed to exercise are religions but only in certain times at certain places, and i hate the fact that they pass around the collection plate at churches fyi.

im a luthern by the way the benefits of going to a church is the ability to know your talking with somebody who knows what they are talking about.
and what do you mean pay us and make it go away?



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by make.changes
 


Good point. Well taken. I dont think we will ever understand God to the fullest extent. But maybe he will let science give us some great insight into his glory.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:17 PM
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Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by Valhall
 


Oh just saying. You said that conversion was not a mandate. It was high on the priority list in order spread the news. Thats all.


That would be unsubstantiated by your reference. That verse

5And wherever they do not receive and accept and welcome you, when you leave that town shake off [even] the dust from your feet, as a testimony against them.

...is not a mandate to convert people. No where in that statement does he say "If they don't believe what your saying...etc." It is a statement of support for what he knew they would endure in the future...downright hateful people who didn't even welcome them and assist them in their needs (not because of what they were saying, but because they left on their journey with no provisions for themselves). Christ's words were always toward how we should show God's love to mankind (the vertical path) by our love to humankind (the horizontal path). That creates the cross.

This was a supportive comment - i.e. "Don't let mean people get you down." Not a mandate to convert.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:18 PM
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reply to post by TheMythLives
 


I agree with the racket part and Jesus being upset, as i am sure he is.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by Valhall
 


Dont get me wrong. I agree with you, but I also believe that if no one was converted then the church would have failed. So I believe that conversion was a priority as well for the churches sake.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by Valhall
 


Dont get me wrong. I agree with you, but I also believe that if no one was converted then the church would have failed. So I believe that conversion was a priority as well for the churches sake.


I'm not particularly sure that Jesus was all that hung up on "the church". The church was a human construct. He just wanted us to share the gospel. The gospel was successfully shared and lived strongly external to "the church".



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by Valhall
 


Exactly. When i say Church i mean Jesus. He is the Church. Not some building. Or a bunch of people in the building.

The Church inside of you.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:35 PM
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then you would know that the body is your temple, and you shall not deface or destry your temple. it said straght up in the bible that the body is the temple, what does a temple hold but knowledge, your body holds knowledge that you dont know about and the more you harm it through living the wrong way the more you block it from obtaining this knowledge.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by make.changes
reply to post by xEphon
 


the thing is that most science is inaccurate they call science the observation of nature or something along those lines, but science is basically its own religion one that gets funding that christianity doesnt. those supposed laws that they have are often incomplete and completly inaccurate, observe gravity what direction does gravity move?


I'll concede that not all science is accurate - but scientist work pretty hard to smooth out the inconsistencies in their theories.

Which makes me wonder.

When was the last time you heard of a creationist trying to smooth out the inconsistencies of their theory?
Actually, I lie, I believe it's called Intelligent Design.

So anyway, back on topic of 'how you would prove creationism.'
If you don't want to use science to prove your claim, because it is "inaccurate," then you would somehow have to prove that your source of information is more accurate than science. In your case it would be the bible.
Simply prove that the bible is more factual than science.
Not really sure how you would pull that one off though. Faith based facts?
hmmm



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:44 PM
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reply to post by Conclusion
 
Yeah, and if there's one thing I've taken away from every church denomination I've ever been to (plenty ranging from mormon to 7th day adventist to lutheran to babtist to fist babtist to pentacost) save a few very small shacky Kentucky churches and some down home black churches, it's that there is some serious money in religion. For some reason, that fact alone (while preaching immateriality and martyrdom - which is common to most religions btw) has steered me to question the reality of at least a benevolent God. It truly was nothing short of inevitable that I would start to question the voracity of the claims being made - that I never could make sense of. I know what the offering plate is supposed to be known for, but I never understood the obvious hipocracy of what was being preached while giving someone my hard-earned money. I started to question whether we were here 4 times a week for nothing more than the offering (which was hardly ever talked about but somehow understood) plate making its rounds.

Now I believe I'm at the point that Thomas Paine was - "My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." - as even the arguments seem completely irrelevant - which is an attempt at answering the OP.



What do you mean, "pay us, and make it go away"

I've personally been in many sermons in which I'd recognized the preacher actually shoving a guilt trip on everyone in the church, then nonchalantly waving his hand at the climax of his rant to have the trays passed around. I can only go from experience here (as you're right...there is no arguing with irrationality), and as my experience has shown me, the church has alternative motives than what they preach - for which the most part seems to be gettin' paid. Have you seen some of the churches we have here? Have you ever set your eyes upon the beauty of the Vatican or some of the 'real' historical religious buildings?

I've basically just taken that unlikeability of the offering plate to the next level, instead of being happy with it. I still give charity and assistance to many people, just now I do it on a personal level - as I think it should be.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:45 PM
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(1) Some time before 500 B.C. the prophet Daniel proclaimed that Israel's long-awaited Messiah would begin his public ministry 483 years after the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem (Daniel 9:25-26). He further predicted that the Messiah would be "cut off," killed, and that this event would take place prior to a second destruction of Jerusalem. Abundant documentation shows that these prophecies were perfectly fulfilled in the life (and crucifixion) of Jesus Christ. The decree regarding the restoration of Jerusalem was issued by Persia's King Artaxerxes to the Hebrew priest Ezra in 458 B.C., 483 years later the ministry of Jesus Christ began in Galilee. (Remember that due to calendar changes, the date for the start of Christ's ministry is set by most historians at about 26 A.D. Also note that from 1 B.C. to 1 A.D. is just one year.) Jesus' crucifixion occurred only a few years later, and about four decades later, in 70 A.D. came the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 105.)*


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(2) In approximately 700 B.C. the prophet Micah named the tiny village of Bethlehem as the birthplace of Israel's Messiah (Micah 5:2). The fulfillment of this prophecy in the birth of Christ is one of the most widely known and widely celebrated facts in history.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 105.)


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(3) In the fifth century B.C. a prophet named Zechariah declared that the Messiah would be betrayed for the price of a slave—thirty pieces of silver, according to Jewish law-and also that this money would be used to buy a burial ground for Jerusalem's poor foreigners (Zechariah 11:12-13). Bible writers and secular historians both record thirty pieces of silver as the sum paid to Judas Iscariot for betraying Jesus, and they indicate that the money went to purchase a "potter's field," used—just as predicted—for the burial of poor aliens (Matthew 27:3-10).

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1011.)


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(4) Some 400 years before crucifixion was invented, both Israel's King David and the prophet Zechariah described the Messiah's death in words that perfectly depict that mode of execution. Further, they said that the body would be pierced and that none of the bones would be broken, contrary to customary procedure in cases of crucifixion (Psalm 22 and 34:20; Zechariah 12:10). Again, historians and New Testament writers confirm the fulfillment: Jesus of Nazareth died on a Roman cross, and his extraordinarily quick death eliminated the need for the usual breaking of bones. A spear was thrust into his side to verify that he was, indeed, dead.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1013.)


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(5) The prophet Isaiah foretold that a conqueror named Cyrus would destroy seemingly impregnable Babylon and subdue Egypt along with most of the rest of the known world. This same man, said Isaiah, would decide to let the Jewish exiles in his territory go free without any payment of ransom (Isaiah 44:28; 45:1; and 45:13). Isaiah made this prophecy 150 years before Cyrus was born, 180 years before Cyrus performed any of these feats (and he did, eventually, perform them all), and 80 years before the Jews were taken into exile.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1015.)


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(6) Mighty Babylon, 196 miles square, was enclosed not only by a moat, but also by a double wall 330 feet high, each part 90 feet thick. It was said by unanimous popular opinion to be indestructible, yet two Bible prophets declared its doom. These prophets further claimed that the ruins would be avoided by travelers, that the city would never again be inhabited, and that its stones would not even be moved for use as building material (Isaiah 13:17-22 and Jeremiah 51:26, 43). Their description is, in fact, the well-documented history of the famous citadel.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 109.)


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(7) The exact location and construction sequence of Jerusalem's nine suburbs was predicted by Jeremiah about 2600 years ago. He referred to the time of this building project as "the last days," that is, the time period of Israel's second rebirth as a nation in the land of Palestine (Jeremiah 31:38-40). This rebirth became history in 1948, and the construction of the nine suburbs has gone forward precisely in the locations and in the sequence predicted.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1018.)


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(8) The prophet Moses foretold (with some additions by Jeremiah and Jesus) that the ancient Jewish nation would be conquered twice and that the people would be carried off as slaves each time, first by the Babylonians (for a period of 70 years), and then by a fourth world kingdom (which we know as Rome). The second conqueror, Moses said, would take the Jews captive to Egypt in ships, selling them or giving them away as slaves to all parts of the world. Both of these predictions were fulfilled to the letter, the first in 607 B.C. and the second in 70 A.D. God's spokesmen said, further, that the Jews would remain scattered throughout the entire world for many generations, but without becoming assimilated by the peoples or of other nations, and that the Jews would one day return to the land of Palestine to re-establish for a second time their nation (Deuteronomy 29; Isaiah 11:11-13; Jeremiah 25:11; Hosea 3:4-5 and Luke 21:23-24).

This prophetic statement sweeps across 3500 years of history to its complete fulfillment—in our lifetime.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 120.)


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(9) Jeremiah predicted that despite its fertility and despite the accessibility of its water supply, the land of Edom (today a part of Jordan) would become a barren, uninhabited wasteland (Jeremiah 49:15-20; Ezekiel 25:12-14). His description accurately tells the history of that now bleak region.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:46 PM
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Well, I've shared my viewpoint, and I'm shaking the dust off my shoes as I leave this thread.

I see no good in what is being attempted here. But that's just my own personal opinion.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by make.changes
to clarify im not an evolutionist im a christian who believes in the creation story of the bible. so how do you convince an evolutionist that the god of scripture is real, for all athiests and evolutionists.


Simple. Evolve means "to roll out a scroll". The "book of Life" is a scroll written in the blood of us. We call this the DNA helix. Because of this you may learn who the "son of man" is.....literally the son of man, otherwise God would be of confusion, but Gods not so...cool.

For children, you bear the cross. It is a child who knows no sin. It is children to whom this world belong. It is children you will follow where ever they go....generation to generation...forever evolving.

Well those who keep their name in that book will. The ones who don't reproduce...well....they won't ever be mentioned by another man again nor brought to mind. Though a spirit may seek a "new" mansion, the child not knowing you, will say go away from me, I never knew you. After enough time, they will be forgotten.



evolve
evolve Look up evolve at Dictionary.com
1641, "to unfold, open out, expand," from L. evolvere "unroll," from ex- "out" + volvere "to roll" (see vulva).

Evolution (1622), originally meant "unrolling of a book;" it first was used in the modern scientific sense 1832 by Scot. geologist Charles Lyell.

Charles Darwin used the word only once, in the closing paragraph of "The Origin of Species" (1859), and preferred descent with modification, in part because evolution already had been used in the 18c. homunculus theory of embryological development (first proposed under this name by Bonnet, 1762), in part because it carried a sense of "progress" not found in Darwin's idea.

But Victorian belief in progress prevailed (along with brevity), and Herbert Spencer and other biologists popularized evolution.


How funny is it, that evolve means "roll out a scroll"....Hilarious I say.

Peace out



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:49 PM
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reply to post by xEphon
 


Sarcasm: You would simply play a little slight of hand and publish that the bible could actually be more mysterious than man an produce, and perhaps there's a real message in the bible codes "we've miraculously found in there". Oy Vey


Star btw.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 10:01 PM
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Oh, I wouldn't worry. I can 100% guarantee you that eventually EVERYONE will be convinced that the God of Scripture is real. Just depends on when they figure it out - while they still have time to be saved by accepting Jesus' sacrifice for their sin, or after it is too late and they must pay for their own sin in the lake of fire for eternity.

But they're all gonna know the truth eventually....

My prayer is that all people choose the former.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 10:18 PM
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yes lets hope, i think the fact that the prophecies come true should be proof enough for them. but if it takes burning in the lake fire then so be it. lets just hope that they become converted.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 10:25 PM
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reply to post by make.changes
 


Did you know that most of the early churches believed everyone was going to Heaven. Yeah when i found that out i was like,"WHAT!" I don't know if its true or not, but i hope so.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by make.changes
 


Nice find btw.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by wakeupcall1111
Oh, I wouldn't worry. I can 100% guarantee you that eventually EVERYONE will be convinced that the God of Scripture is real. Just depends on when they figure it out - while they still have time to be saved by accepting Jesus' sacrifice for their sin, or after it is too late and they must pay for their own sin in the lake of fire for eternity.

But they're all gonna know the truth eventually....

My prayer is that all people choose the former.



What makes Jesus's death more important then yours and how does it save you in anyway other then you thinking it does?

If you believe God is true, "not a god of confusion", why would you believe that the death of a just man, saves you?

Hopefully you've chosen the former as well...."forbid NOT the children TO COME UNTO ME", "To the least of these so to have you done it unto me", "And a CHILD shall lead them.....", "Many Saviours come from Zion".

Do you know the difference between Redemption and Salvation?

Redemption is bringing forth a child...a "kinsmen" redeemer. This is the work which "true faith" follows. When two people truly love one another they become a new creation through a thing that has been the same forever called "Procreation"....producing a new being made from two.

Salvation is turning from that which will kill you called "Sin". You know like Main lineing Heroine, or Drinking till your liver explodes, or having intercourse with something that could kill you. Sin is Death, death is Sin. The life in you, is more important then your life....understand? You hold the hot potato and unless you get rid of it....Buns up or Dodge BAAL.

Peace

[edit on 31-8-2009 by letthereaderunderstand]



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