It's my understanding, that, ironically, Jesuits were the authors of the rites, and that the Pope is, among other things, the keeper of the secrets of the ancient mystery religions of Babylon and Egypt, and thus the actual head of global freemasonry, whereby Jesus Christ is considered the ideal and perfect man, made by design to contain the spirit of the living God who's work on the cross may be considered the Magnum Opus or the Great Work of all ages.

And the word "Catholic" does mean "Universal"..

I also think that both Masonry and Catholicism, are the most grandious systems on earth, since both pay homage to the Hermetical motto of "as above, so below."

In fact, the Pope as Pontifricus Maximus, is the "chief bridge builder to the underworld".

So you see, some of us have done our research.

[edit on 1-9-2009 by OmegaPoint]

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I must admit that, after having read this whole thread, I find myself in awe at some of the posts that I've read. This is one of the most engaging discussions on this topic that I've seen on ATS in years!! As long as we can keep this going, I think we'll all learn something.

Let me state something here. Now I'm sure that I'm probably going to get roasted for this for days on end, but I myself am a Freemason as well. What I have found is that, regardless of what group someone claims to be acquainted with, there are invariably a smaller group of people inside there that are not "on the level", to use a Masonic term.

What I mean by this is that EVERY organization, masonic or not, has an inner clique that desires nothing but power. Do I think that there are people like this in Freemasonry? Absolutely. The fraternity is composed of PEOPLE, right? As long as people are mixed up in it, there will be power grabs. The thing that I'm in the process of learning at the moment is that, no matter what, there are always ways around these little cliques of people. It should be incumbent upon anyone in these groups to take a stand for the morals that they believe in.

There are actually groups in every organization that act very similar to how Internal Affairs works in the government. They investigate accusations from fellow members, and if there are grounds for action, they take them. Simple as that.

Finally, I'd like to address everyone that's standing outside throwing rocks at the Masons. I'll never stand and demand that you apologize for saying something about my beloved Fraternity, as you have that most inalienable right to think and speak as you will. It's one of the rights that we also give our members in the Fraternity. I would ask though that in the future, before you throw that next rock, that you please know what it is that you're saying. You're making grandiose claims about a group that you know next to nothing about. You claim that you've done all of this research, and yet you still have no clue why you can't find anything substantial to make a case against the organization!

Wanna know why you can't make a case? Because one doesn't exist!! We're not out to harm anyone. We're out to help everyone wake up!! The very freedoms that you all are using to throw the rocks at us were GIVEN to you by us!!

Now I won't tell you what you should think; I just caution everyone to be mindful of what they say. It reflects on our personalities, which is why I'm taking this moment to make these suggestions. I want you all to continue having your opinions, and to be able to express them in an intelligent manner, as you have been. This has been a lively conversation, and again, I wanna see it continue.

THANK YOU ALL for participating!!

TheBorg

Originally posted by EarthQuake
in a free society the word secrecy is repugnant. (JFK)

to me it doesnt matter if they are handing out candy to children or collaborating the New World Order the idea that they have the opportunity to do something wrong, as in against society, and hide what they have done in secrecy does not work in a free society like ours should be.

its quite possible that the freemasons put out propaganda about themselves to guard their secrets. maybe the whole entire world isnt ready to hear them. so if we take that propaganda as truth then i guess we arent really searching for answers hard enough. i dont like to single out a whole crowd or even one individual for that matter. sometimes we get a lil too proud and we think we're showin love when we're really not.

Originally posted by Phenomium
Well, in case you haven't noticed...it's the whole wolrd against you guys.

You're mistaken if you honestly believe that Internet chat boards are representative of "the whole world". Internet chat boards are no more indicative of the feelings and opinions of "the whole world" than 9/11 conspiracy theorists and no-planers are.

Originally posted by Phenomium
I don't believe the whole world is wrong over an organization notorious for hiding secrets and egotistically filtering out humanity as if filtering the wheat from the chaff.

And you know this about the inner workings of Masonry (not that it's even remotely correct) exactly how? Your long and vast experience as a Regular Mason?

Originally posted by Phenomium
Guess what mason........the world is MORE ashamed of you guys and no one cares how you feel. If you are third degree or below, forgive me, as you guys know not what you do. You are victims as well................the flowershop out in front of the mafia hidout.....that's what 3rd and below is..a facade, Puppets.

And you know this about the inner workings of Masonry (not that it's even remotely correct) exactly how? Your long and vast experience as a Regular Mason?

Honestly, I find it astonishing the chutzpah of the anti-Mason. It defies logic that the fearless investiGoogler is somehow better informed about the inner workings of Masonry anywhere in the world than the actual members themselves.

Originally posted by district9
The lower level masons, I believe 32nd degree and lower do not appear to be apart of the true illuminati agenda, its the higher levels that are the top of our ridicule.

Oy! Another one that knows nothing about Masonry (not that numerous posters here haven't tried) and assumes that Scottish Rite rulez! The degrees you're referring to are in a side rite to Masonry and have no more impact on Masonry.

Let me ask you a question: which is larger? 32" or 3'? Same thing with Regular Masonry; the 3rd degree is the highest. End of story. Full Stop.

Despite the numerical focus that anti-Masons have, they just seem unwilling to recognise being glaringly and repeatedly wrong about even so straightforward an aspect about Masonry. And for good measure, I'm going to bet that this 33rd degree focus is going to lead back to a long-discredited swipe at Pike about lying to the lower degrees.

Sadly predictable really

Originally posted by ReelView
What can I say, Jesuit Priests when taking the 4th oath swearing to cut protestant babies out of their mothers bellies and smash the skulls against the wall have stated they kissed the Masonic ring on the initiators hand.

Wrong.

Number 1: the "oath" you're referring to is fake.

Number 2: Said fake oath also includes murdering Freemasons.

Albert Pike wrote very nicely to market to the masses in the 1800s and later to promote the KKK.

Wrong.

Number 1: Pike did not write for "the masses", he wrote for Masonic philosophers.

2. He never mentioned the KKK in any of his writings, and was not associated with that group.

is there any chance we could get some new tripe here? I am so bored with the same old misquoted Pike references, Luciferian claims with no proof or even suggestion of anything other than "I sawr it on www.freemasonrywatch.org" Do the Anti masons not have any personal intelligence? Do they have to rely on others lies to propagate their theorys? Please, in the interest of avoidance of boredom. please make up some fresh new lies. Please.

a secret society that people know about isn't.
the only secret ones no one knows about because it is secret.
society is also a misnomer-it should be a group of losers or a few drunk buddies who get together to massage their own self-importance.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by district9
The lower level masons, I believe 32nd degree and lower do not appear to be apart of the true illuminati agenda, its the higher levels that are the top of our ridicule.

Oy! Another one that knows nothing about Masonry (not that numerous posters here haven't tried) and assumes that Scottish Rite rulez! The degrees you're referring to are in a side rite to Masonry and have no more impact on Masonry.

Let me ask you a question: which is larger? 32" or 3'? Same thing with Regular Masonry; the 3rd degree is the highest. End of story. Full Stop.

Despite the numerical focus that anti-Masons have, they just seem unwilling to recognise being glaringly and repeatedly wrong about even so straightforward an aspect about Masonry. And for good measure, I'm going to bet that this 33rd degree focus is going to lead back to a long-discredited swipe at Pike about lying to the lower degrees.

Hum. I'm surprised, you're right, Freemasons or ritual 'masons' do not lie, not once or ever, they deceive (my father would call it being democratic with the truth) - and you are right there is a difference.

Let me explain, as one progresses through each degree, the ritual practices, change, to reflect that, as does the interpretation of the current 'reality' or 'consciousness', some of these rituals are private, many as a Freemason you may not know about, until invited, or attaining a 'higher' degree.

Although it is unfounded to say that Freemasonry degree system is a cast based system of deceit, at the very least, it is founded to say that misleading people is a very confounding way to reach the same goal (not the full truth, or full known interpretation of bearer(s)).

I try and keep away from the pike topic , personally, but yeah, Freemasonry should actually thank Pike for doing so much to modernize the masonic traditions, and you know, other more 'faithful' people may take a distasteful pleasure over the possibility of pike being a satanist, I actually take a dislike to the fact that Pike, as a bloodline, may , and has been suggested many times to serve the Illuminated Agenda.

It is in my opinion though, it is, a little disingenuous to consider the Scottish rite 'have no more impact on freemasonry' - as compared to what?

You also mention 'The 3rd degree is the highest. End of story. Full Stop.', in terms of attainment there is a great deal of focus put on the first 3 degree's isn't there? Funny that, but I think it is something that neither of us are qualified to answer??

Enjoyed reading your post. ta

A

Originally posted by 7redorbs
You also mention 'The 3rd degree is the highest. End of story. Full Stop.', in terms of attainment there is a great deal of focus put on the first 3 degree's isn't there? Funny that, but I think it is something that neither of us are qualified to answer??

Enjoyed reading your post. ta

A

and yet you have whole paragraphs of information you claim to know, about a fraternity you don't belong to. Sad indeed.

[edit on 1-9-2009 by network dude]

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by 7redorbs
You also mention 'The 3rd degree is the highest. End of story. Full Stop.', in terms of attainment there is a great deal of focus put on the first 3 degree's isn't there? Funny that, but I think it is something that neither of us are qualified to answer??

Enjoyed reading your post. ta

A

and yet you have whole paragraphs of information you claim to know, about a fraternity you don't belong to. Sad indeed.

[edit on 1-9-2009 by network dude]

Yeah, I'm not a freemason, I wasn't aware I made any statement about being a freemason or not, my main point here was, actually, making assumptions can be dangerous.

I can only assume that any intellectual statement I make will go unrecognized from you - because of the fact I'm a non freemason. So, I'm talking nonsense? Would love to hear in what way..

Obviously, ignoring my best to knowledge factual description of freemasonry, I would love to hear your factual description of freemasonry from inside, since you clearly know so much more than me!

Thanks for the input.. I await your corrections! Perhaps you could start of with your take on 'The 3rd degree is the highest. End of story. Full Stop.', as a freemason, yourself?

A

[edit on 1-9-2009 by 7redorbs]

[edit on 1-9-2009 by 7redorbs]

Thanks for the input.. I await your corrections! Perhaps you could start of with your take on 'The 3rd degree is the highest. End of story. Full Stop.', as a freemason, yourself?

33° belongs to the Scottish Rite.

The Scottish rite is rarely found outside America. One could almost call it an "American degree."

Considering that Freemasonry as an organization is not run from America, why would someone who has such a title have any control over the rest of the world's Freemasons, where 33° really has no meaning.

If you agree with numbers indicating 'high ranks', why not say that members of the Memphis rite are the highest, since they have 99°. Is it because they are not American?

Why is it that the Duke of Kent, the head of the United Grand Lodge of England, can be in that position without being a 33° Mason or without even belonging to the Scottish rite?

Why do you feel that Scottish rite is more important than any other side degree?

[edit on 1/9/2009 by Saurus]