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I think I see the problem here and it's simpler than I first thought

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posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 10:28 AM
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Creationists attacking evolution do so on it's own grounds, then claim that as an argument for creationism. It's not, it's an argument against evolution. (which is fine by itself, every Theory has some holes in it, poke away!) The Earth is 6000 years old vs the Earth is 4.5 billion years old is a whole other debate altngether, mainly it seems for geologists, palaeotologists, archaeologists, astrologists (astronomists? always get those two mixed up) etc to fight over. What came before the Big Bang and if there was one is for physicists and philosophers to puzzle over. To put it bluntly, THERE IS NO DEBATE when attempting to, well, debate creationism vs evolution. They do not conflict, save where you make them do so by taking creation myths literally. Looking at peoples posts, all I can see is people bashing their heads against brick walls on both sides of the imaginary argument for no reason other than there is no real debate. Where there is are isolated pockets with nothing to do with each other (eg the young earth theory has nothing to do with whether or not the big bang happened, just as abiogenesis has nothing to do with evolution). Evolution can exist side by side with faith, but only if you don't take creation stories literally.

Another thing is it seems that our friends on the other side of the pond have no religious education programs at all, whilst here in England you take it in both primary and secondary school (I did), which is a shame because it tends to open your eyes to different faiths, and the creation stories were something I personally enjoyed the most. If you're after something similar then I say go for it, but it seems the consensus on here is mostly along the lines of sure, teach it in mythology/religious education/ancient history/philosophy or an elective college course... just don't elect to have it forced down young peoples throats as the absolute, only, undeniable truth. Because that would more likely destroy their ability to think for themselves... and we all know that's what TPTB wants you and your children to be like, unquestioning.

I leave you with what I learned in science:

Question Everything




posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 10:42 AM
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Starred and Flagged!

Great post. I see, all too much, the threads on who has to prove what. Just believe whatever you want and don't push it on others. In my humble opinion.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 10:58 AM
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Yep, S&F, the two theories shoudl be teached on atleast too those who wants an alternate understanding.
And I think we would get much farther if both teams worked for an commen cause : the truth of universe and what is it in..

What out side it is another thread,



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 11:03 AM
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The problem is that some people do push their beliefs on others, some do take creationist myths literally and some do claim that they are scientific.

There are also areas where there is necessary conflict between ideas. I agree that you could have a creationist myth that was compatible with evolution; however if you say that god created all creatures as we now know them, and/or that man was created separate from all others then that conflicts with evolution.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by Mike_A
The problem is that some people do push their beliefs on others, some do take creationist myths literally and some do claim that they are scientific.

There are also areas where there is necessary conflict between ideas. I agree that you could have a creationist myth that was compatible with evolution; however if you say that god created all creatures as we now know them, and/or that man was created separate from all others then that conflicts with evolution.


Nice thoughts, but you are allready pushing evolution as the absolute and only way we could come to be..


I do not think the Earth is only 6000 years old, I have never said it so I hope no one here at ats thinks Im believing that ..


But, life on it I dont believe came from just one cell in a pond of boiling acid water..


I do not see any impossibilities about the Alien Gods coming here and making it work for their part, which results in, the we humans came to be..

Maybe they even 'planted' horses and cows too, since we need them in our daily lifes, atleast back then..



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by Mike_A
The problem is that some people do push their beliefs on others,


Yes, I agree, there are. That's why we need to be ever more vigilant against people who do push their beliefs on others, especially as it can often lead to inbuilt barriers against questioning anything. But I see you doing an excellent job of questioning things yourself
, so keep it up


some do take creationist myths literally and some do claim that they are scientific


They're free to believe as they wish, so long as they don't push it on others. And if they claim it's scientific, well they better be prepared for barrages of questions


There are also areas where there is necessary conflict between ideas. I agree that you could have a creationist myth that was compatible with evolution; however if you say that god created all creatures as we now know them, and/or that man was created separate from all others then that conflicts with evolution.


See above ;-)

Originally posted by ChemBreather



I do not think the Earth is only 6000 years old, I have never said it so I hope no one here at ats thinks Im believing that ..


But, life on it I dont believe came from just one cell in a pond of boiling acid water..


Care to elaborate?



I do not see any impossibilities about the Alien Gods coming here and making it work for their part, which results in, the we humans came to be..

Maybe they even 'planted' horses and cows too, since we need them in our daily lifes, atleast back then..


Now that would be fascinating. If aliens altered our and our domestic animals (dogs and cats at least, as dogs have been around in their form as long as humans have) but for what purpose? Were there intentions benevolent or not so benevolent? Have they perhaps come back to sample and see what the races they've created and helped culturally have done with themselves? I got about halfway through watching a documentary featuring Eric von Daniken yesterday and I should really finish it, it was very interesting.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:09 PM
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Lol. You are saying teach Creationism as a myth and that is what the argument is about. Why is it so hard for people to think that truth in spirituality is not a myth to some, mean while trying to force evolution down their throats as fact? Ok. I love science. I find it interesting and i think that it has an endless supply of knowledge.

I love spirituality. I find that it brings everything together and has an endless supply of answers.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:20 PM
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reply to post by Conclusion
 


Me too man. I used to be a semi-hardcore creationist, now, after reading the bible a bit more, i'm a bit of a truthest. lol.
some people wanna rip a guy apart for saying that, but to me, there are some very, very precious gems, mainly finding the ability to judge the status of my own soul as i grow asa person.

I totally agree with the op, they do not need to be exclusive. I mean, we all know religions been manipulated and also science, of course. Are we surprised by this? Are we surprised people make money off religion? Are we surprised at the structure of the scientific community, where who you are matters as much as what you say? I mean, if we could just come together and demand truth.....I'm picturing it my mind right now, the divisiveness of our cultrure obliterated, watching truth approach, with a chuckle, no matter who we are.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:25 PM
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I feel that at some point in every individual's life something will happen in their life to start questioning this subject, resulting in a very personal spiritual journey.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by heyo
 


Yeah i think you said it better.....



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:29 PM
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reply to post by Conclusion
 


My whole thing is I know that the large majority of people think the same way as us!!!
So where are they/we???
What are we doing? How come talking about this stuff is considered a downer in everyday life?

...I don't think our denial and apathy could take on a life this big without some outside help...outside help that knows exactly what it's doing.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:31 PM
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reply to post by Conclusion
 



truth in spirituality is not a myth to some


How do you define true?



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by heyo
 


Good question. I think its like this. You will have those that are called, by that i mean one's that have a spiritual awakening. Then those that have not. That a lot of those that are called are mystified at first, and don't really know what to do. They either think they are going crazy or they have been prepared for it. I think the ones that are not prepared once they get over their initial reaction become...well pompous...to the effect that no one will listen to them.

The ones not called see those ones the most because they are usually the loudest. So they label all as such. Once people realize that everything is connected, then as a whole all problems are solved. And i believe that science will be a major contributing factor to the problems being solved.

The ones that are called need to realize that just because your called doesn't mean you have all the answers...or something like that.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:39 PM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 


I define truth as awareness of what is right and what is wrong.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by Conclusion
 


Factually right and wrong or in the moral sense of right and wrong?

In either case, who decides what is right and wrong?



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:48 PM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 


You decide what you think is right and what is wrong. I don't nor can I judge you for your choice. We can only condemn ourselves.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:53 PM
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reply to post by Conclusion
 


very interesting....but I have a different theory, or rather, maybe i look at a different layer of it. It is fear of the unknown that causes some to be pompous, and of course, ignorance. I like to use the term accidental ignorance for some who just haven't had the opportunity to learn.

It is fear that drives people the most, imho. For instance, I don't know many people who put faith in the universe. that is to say, they fear any potential changes, or "problems" in their/our lives as being potentially harmfull to the status quo.

we gotta get past that!!!



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 10:05 PM
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reply to post by heyo
 


Yes. You are right. Do you ever find yourself thinking that the right answer is up to you? You have to follow your own concept of right and wrong. Because lets face it, peoples views on life and how it should be led will always be a conversation piece. If you do the best you can then that is all you can do.

Oh yeah, what does imho stand for..lol

[edit on 31-8-2009 by Conclusion]



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by Conclusion
 


So are you talking from a moral perspective then? Because that doesn’t make sense in the context of the post I took that quote from.


You are saying teach Creationism as a myth and that is what the argument is about. Why is it so hard for people to think that truth in spirituality is not a myth to some, mean while trying to force evolution down their throats as fact?


That doesn’t make sense.


If you are talking in the truth as in fact sense and from your last post you say that truth is subjective does this then mean that if a mentally disturbed person believes he can fly, that means he can actually, literally fly?



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by Conclusion
 


In
My
Humble
Opinion




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