Naomi Wolf on why protests don't work in the U.S.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Once you resort to violence, you loose all credibility. Learn from MLK.

I had plenty of experience while sometimes being involved in Vietnam War protests. The violent people we shunned because their motives were always suspect and those who preached violence always turned out to be bad people.

Violent protest hurts innocent bystanders, destroys innocent peoples property and guarantees that nobody will ever take you seriously.

We the People have all the tools we need to cause change peacefully. If for no other reason than our shear numbers mean that if we join together nobody can dictate anything to us.

The most violent protests seem to come from people who want to dictate an outlandish point of view the vast majority are not interested in. The violence often stems from a desire by a tiny number of people to force what they want on everyone else and to hell with their rights. That is the exact kind of people who caused the problems during the Vietnam War protests. It was hard to keep them from ruining what peaceful people were trying to do.

If you want attention you simply block a door or a hallway and when the police come, you don't resist. That will get far more useful attention than resorting to violence ever will. Violence turns everyone against your cause. It shows you are serious and does no harm to others. It is the intelligent way to go about this.

Don't ever believe they are not paying attention to these town meetings and tea parties because they are. The effort they are putting into propaganda proves they are worried. When peaceful hardworking people assemble in protest it is a powerful force. When anarchists throw rocks at windows or tear up property they turn public opinion permanently against them.

reply to post by A Fortiori


I woke up while with a group of Democrats on the day Reagan was shot. (Yes I was once a Democrat and a Republican) One of them ran in from their car and said turn on the TV. Just then they showed the footage of what had happened and everyone in the room except me stood up and cheered and criticized the shooter for not being a better shot or using a bigger gun. I knew at that moment I was being controlled.

She is wrong that protests don't work in the US. I guess it is difficult for her to understand because she seems to be the type of person who protests against everything. Nothing will make this woman happy. Even if her wet dream comes to be and the entire system crumbles under the weight of popular non-violent dissent, she'd still be pissed off about something. Trust me.

Perhaps the masses aren't as in tune with her message as she believes and they don't feel protests are necessary; at this point. The Illegals protested across the country in April/May 2006...they didn't get an amnesty but there was compromise on the immigration issue; the sweeps and deportations have either stopped or it is being done quietly. The protest worked in America and for people that aren't technically Americans to boot.

I think she is trying to replicate such popular movements as Philippino People Power or Ukrain's Orange Revolution or Georgia's Rose Revolution, but in America. But the reason it is not going to work in America is because the people don't agree with her assertion that popular revolution is the only way.

Those revolutions weren't successful because laws within society supported them they were successful because the leaders were overtly corrupt...no questions about it.

In America there seems to still be a question regarding the leadership and people just don't feel like protesting at the level she wants to see. Maybe, America's leadership is not as corrupt as someone wants you to all believe. But I suppose that's not possible.

fake protesters bush haters obama haters who cares bring on the anarchy plz ! lol

reply to post by KSPigpen

She was very clear and made a very good point. So it seems to me, if you want change, you're going to be a criminal.

No that is what they WANT. OUT THINK them. As I said I am voting with my feet I am shutting down my bank account.

Better yet. Go to public places and hand out stuff on the FED Tell them how banks CREATE money. About Congress McFadden in 1933 bring charges of treason against the Sec of treasury and the Chairman of the Fed. McFadden was shot at twice, poisoned and finally died from a second poisoning. The charges of treason were never pursued.

JFK tried to get around the fed in 1964 by executive order. He had the treasury start printing silver certificates. Then he was killed and in 1968 the US went off the gold standard. American citizens now trade their land and labor for fiat money at best or just a computer entry, back by nothing but you faith in the dollar.

Once you have them hooked and most people will get angry quickly THEN suggest dumping the whole Congress. Bring in a third party, work with them for a compromise platform to clean up the mess. Work on the local level to keep the elections clean. Remind them the Fed OWNS the mass media so they have to work by word of mouth.

There are already some suggestions here. ATS

Originally posted by astronut68
fake protesters bush haters obama haters who cares bring on the anarchy plz ! lol

I, for one, have no desire to live in anarchy - society must have rules or it disintegrates. We have the basis for freedom - that old, yellowed document people hate to see mentioned in threads. We've gotten too far away from it and it's showing in the discontentment present in the U.S.

[edit on 31/8/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

I, for one, have no desire to live in anarchy - society must have rules or it disintegrates. We have the basis for freedom - that old, yellowed document people hate to see mentioned in threads. We've gotten too far away from it and it's showing in the discontentment present in the U.S.

Anarchy is HARD work and living in fear. So no thanks, I rather cooperate with my neighbor, trade skills and that is not possible without at least a minimum of rules.

I agree we definitely need to get back to our beginning documents and do a major overhaul on the laws already passed. No effort seems to be made to rework, refine or stream line the government. I figure that should keep a third party busy for the next fifty years...

(And yes I did read the summary, I just did not reply directly to that post. Again thanks.)

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by Asktheanimals

 

Once you resort to violence, you loose all credibility. Learn from MLK.

Perhaps my post was poorly worded. I was not, in any way
advocating violence. My statement that unless the protests
were bloody they would get scant attention from the MSM.

I've been to many Anti-war demonstrations and was always
badly disappointed by the media coverage - it made me feel
like it was useless. How can you wake people up when the
media won't report it?

As for wearing body armor and a gas mask that sounds like
common sense, I didnt say take a poleax with you,

I quite agree with what your post said I just wanted to clear
up that I wasn't advocating violent protest. I hope things go
peacefully for those who do protest as I'm sure a dear friend
of mine will probably be there since she lives in P'burg.

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

Some of Naomi's other videos go into the details of how we are
slipping into fascism, if you add in Perkins video on Confessions
of an Economic hitman the demise of the country we used to know
becomes pretty clear.

Star and Flag of course to !

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


Define "Work"...

Protests work very well in this country to allow people to blow off steam.

Just imagine what would happen if we didn't have the right to protest... I don't even want to think of what the pent up rage would lead to. I know some on this site would love to see it, but I for one would not.


I think Protests work very well... maybe not for the protesters though...

I don't agree. I think the protests don't work because no one gets off their butts to protest anymore.

If they gave us a small area to protest in, and so many people showed up that the protest spilled into the other streets then that would make people sit up and take notice - But that doesn't happen in the states

No large numbers to spill over because everyone's at home watching TV and eating Big Macs. Sorry but it's true.

Despite agreeing with almost everything I've ever heard her say, I've found that she's someone who rides on whats popular at the time. One minute she's for Obama, fully aware of what he stands for and the moment his popularity dips she releases an article stating that he's shredding the constitution.

No, I don't buy it. While she does say things that are correct, for the most part, she also seems to simply spout the popular opinion.

reply to post by Asktheanimals

I've been to many Anti-war demonstrations and was always badly disappointed by the media coverage - it made me feel like it was useless. How can you wake people up when the media won't report it?

I think we all know the media is a PTB pawn. They will NEVER report anything unless it is approved by the PTB. John Munsell told me how a reporter from a big New York paper interviewed him, wrote the story, the editor loved it and it was killed at the last minute by the owner of the paper. This story includes not one but TWO Congressional Investigations! If they suppress a story like that protesters do not stand a chance.

That is why I suggest leaflets and organizing on the local level. Use word of mouth. It works. Farmers have used it successfully to fight animal ID, thats why I know John M. Actually farmers are very ripe for organizing. Because of our long battle with the USDA, we are wide awake already.

Besides, small and local are a lot harder for the PTB to control and mind wash. The biggest thing to remember is The Enemy of my Enemy is my friend. That means if you are a lefty try to find common ground with those right wingers in the tea party movement. If you are a right winger tea party type, welcome and listen to the left winger, You share the same enemy and you both want to protect the weak and innocent. It is a starting point.

IDK88:

She is wrong that protests don't work in the US.

Actually, Naomi states quite explicitly that mass protests DO work, but she then goes on to state equally explicitly why they are not allowed to work, why they are not allowed to express the grievance in full force.

She called the reason 'over-permitization', which effectively neuters the capability to take to the streets, to organise mass protest, because you need a permit to do so...effectively making a protest impotent before a foot is placed in the street. Any protest organized without a permit would be condemned as unlawful, and would be prosecuted against and villified in the MSM. Nevetheless, protests made without permit are more than likely going to be the necessary thing, and court prosecutions will have to be expected, and it will be there in court where the argument will rage. Surely, requiring a permit to protest infinges upon civil rights, and obviously upon free speech?

The very idea of needing a 'permit' to protest goes against the very principle of free speech. They've got you thinking that you must stay law-abiding rather than constitutional, thereby dismissing constitutional rights. Ultimately, protesters will need to test the waters, push against the tide, and get wet if necessary. Peaceful resistance is the way...and the only way.

I think she is trying to replicate such popular movements as Philippino People Power or Ukraine's Orange Revolution or Georgia's Rose Revolution...

Not at all, she's simply trying to warn and educate those with eyes that see and ears that listen. American democracy will be closed down if the people don't wake up to the warnings journalists like Wolf are reporting on. The militarised structure that Eisenhower warned against has been built and corporatized, such interests will do whatever it takes to see their corporate agenda realised.

Maybe, America's leadership is not as corrupt as someone wants you all to believe.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, yet the clues to the corruption are quite evident, and I guess there are things you yourself don't want to look at, and prefer to remain in denial. Afterall, how bad are things truly for you personally? How affected have you been over the last 10 years? Perhaps you're waiting for the troops to be marching down your street before you accept that the warnings came at a time when you could have done something, when peaceful protest could have still been applied.

Your post can be summed up in one word...indifference, not only to those already affected, and those already in plight, but to your own potential future plight. The way to take out the power of the corporate tide is to prosecute those at the top, cut the head off the body and the body loses all direction and power. I fear though, that you will do nothing for your country until your country takes away from you the rights enshrined in its founding. It's well on the path to doing so, and it won't be long before your rights of freedom and individualism are turned into rights of servitude. The choice is yours, and you alone will be responsible for it...I just hope you discern the right one.

Originally posted by Credge
Despite agreeing with almost everything I've ever heard her say, I've found that she's someone who rides on whats popular at the time. One minute she's for Obama, fully aware of what he stands for and the moment his popularity dips she releases an article stating that he's shredding the constitution.

No, I don't buy it. While she does say things that are correct, for the most part, she also seems to simply spout the popular opinion.

They've all shred the Constitution, unfortunately.

Obama hasn't appeared yet to be shredding it further; he's just not taping the pieces back together like he promised.

She does have a point in what she says. I do think the next Tea Party marches will prove to the government that those marching are not a bunch of brown shirt Nazis, or hicks, or some other deragortory name.

Obama made a critical error in demeaning the protestors. he pis__d a lot od people off. MSM wants to marginalize the protestors, and say they don't really matter. The Obama health care reform people are going to find out the hard way who matters. Obama continues to show ignorance of a fundamental undertstanding of his opposition. He has listened to his egghead advisors too long.

The protest movement against government run health care plan is gaining a big head of steam. The MSM can ignore it all they want, it won't go away. People are tired of being called nasty names who disagree with Obama. We will see soon enough if the protest are effective.

The main reason for modern protests is to vent and "Feel" like you're in control and accomplishing something. Once the protesters are satisfied they tend to pat themselves on the back and go back to being impotent. Generally, a protest is an act of weakness. You're hopping to get someones attention, to get them to listen or magically care. As a result, protesters tend to be dependent on an audience to watch, listen, pay attention. If protesters want to be strong today, they should either go door to door handing out a leaflet or stand outside main traffic locations with a banner than shows a web site link with the details. Hopefully, the website link clues people into the issue. People are too mobile to reach with a protest. The main destinations for large groups tend to be on private property. One of the reasons for the death of the cities commercial business district. You can't really effect people with random slogans as they drive buy. Protesters can have some effect if they time their activity to major social events held in parks for example, but, protesters have bought into the idea that they have to be registered and approved by the "government". Better they apply themselves directly to establishing their own candidates. Make those candidates known through a web site and a public march before elections.

Agreed. Protests really don't do much. That's why we need some more "active" protests..


the upcoming G20 summit here in Pittsburgh is going to be intense. Apparently, some supporters of anarchist beliefs have been taken in due to their political ways...

I hope there is a revolution that day. We need to be active and show the world we mean business. We're not going to take anyone's crap anymore.

We're going to make history.

Originally posted by A Fortiori

Originally posted by Credge
Despite agreeing with almost everything I've ever heard her say, I've found that she's someone who rides on whats popular at the time. One minute she's for Obama, fully aware of what he stands for and the moment his popularity dips she releases an article stating that he's shredding the constitution.

No, I don't buy it. While she does say things that are correct, for the most part, she also seems to simply spout the popular opinion.

They've all shred the Constitution, unfortunately.

Obama hasn't appeared yet to be shredding it further; he's just not taping the pieces back together like he promised.

Obama hasn't appeared to be shredding it further? Oh, really?

Where do I begin? How could I ever stop, if I do begin?

Protests don`t work because they are the same like yelling at cancer. Once the surgeon takes scalpel, the real action takes place. Take your scalpels and cut out those parasites from your body, cut off all the ties to consumerism. Yelling at government and corporations while blurping a coffee at starbucks and fililng up your gas guzzlers at Texaco won`t help much. refuse to buy, refuse to pay taxes, do barter, go underground, overwhelm the country with grey economy. Be more principled, overcome your urges of comfort. Don`t consume !!!!remeber governments don`t create anything and they can`t tax themselves!!!Show them who is the real master.