Naomi Wolf on why protests don't work in the U.S.

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posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 10:14 AM
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She brings up some good points in this video. It is disheartening that our right to non-violent protest has been diminished so much - we are free to protest, it's just that we have to protest the way the government approves of - and that's why they don't work. Watch the video.





posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 11:46 AM
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I have an old computer that does not support video can you give me more information please, this definitely sounds interesting.

All this "you have to have a permit to protest" crap has always sounded unconstitutional to me. DO we not have the right of "free Speech" and the right to "Petition for Redress of Grievance" despite the very clear phrase "Congress shall make no law...abridging the right of..." the supreme court ruled




After exercising increasing scrutiny of laws that infringed upon free speech, the Court in Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969) established the doctrine that the government may restrain only speech that is likely to incite imminent unlawful action. The First Amendment therefore protects even speech that calls for overthrow of the government or lawless action.

The government may, however, impose reasonable limitations upon the time, place, and manner in which speech is exercised in order to protect public order and the smooth functioning of public administration. In imposing such restrictions, however, the state may not discriminate on the basis of the content of speech since such limitations would permit the state to favor one type of speech over another.

www.answers.com...



Now towns use this decision to ban protests, and there went another piece of our freedom.








posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 12:16 PM
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Naomi is a great example of a true Patriot.
(not that I agree with nationalism)
but in this case, she's fighting the good fight,
I guess it doesn't really matter why.

She's a smart lady with a nice head of hair!


I read her book "The End of America"
it was worth the read.

(When I ordered the book at my local bookstore, they wanted my name, I said "Adam Goodman."



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by crimvelvet
 


I tried to type some excerpts from the video. She says it much better than the written word I'm afraid but here goes.


For 30 years there’s been a systematic effort on the part of those that benefit to kill off effective protest by over permitization. I looked at protests against dictators and what came up time and again was mass protest. Mass protest always works unless the leaders are willing to send out the military with submachine guns and mow people down. Pakistan, Phillipines, Baltic States, Estonia, East Germany – mass protest works.

The kind of mass protest that always works is illegal everywhere in the U.S. today. For protests to be effective today, you have to stop traffic. Disrupt business as usual, I don’t mean violence. Martin Luther King who had to write letters from jail because he marched without a permit said that it is important for the tension to rise up for people to see that all is not well – you do that by stopping traffic. The founders did this all the time, up and down the eastern seaboard. Mass protests that bring everything to a halt. It’s illegal to stage a rally for the constitution in Union Square without a permit and with a permit it’s illegal to use a megaphone – meanwhile commercial news is blasting you on the streets. I try to think about registering my neighbors to vote and I’m risking $5000 because it’s illegal to make a mistake. You need to hire a lawyer in Virginia if you have a friend that you want to run for Senate because you could be breaking the law if you have a bake sale to raise money.

Barrier after barrier has been deliberately set for the citizen to keep them from leading the nation.


Kind of like union strikes, you have to disrupt business (non-violent) in order for people to realize that "all is not well" and to be taken seriously.

[edit on 31/8/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 02:00 PM
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What a hottie!

And a patriot! Nice to see some intelligent women behind the movement. God bless her!



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 03:46 PM
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She is absolutely right. Until business as usual stops (traffic, business, etc.) no one will listen.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 04:27 PM
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She is too right (and too hot!!! :-)).
I often wonder how we and those before us allowed it to come to this. I understand about the frog in boiling water allegory and many of the various "conspiracy" theories. But, to change the U.S. from what was considered the beacon of freedom to what it is today in less than a century is truly remarkable.
As the late great George Carlin said, "the only freedom you have is to choose between paper and plastic."



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 04:39 PM
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speaking of protests, how about the coming G20



It's going to be a powder keg




posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
 


She could be 100% right on but the FCC consolidation and brain-washing of the masses towards Left-Right polarization has done their job. Republicans will look at Naomi Wolf, write her off as Al Gore's tool or a tool of the left and she could have Jesus Christ endorse her and it wouldn't matter.

We aren't judged by the individual comments or logical arguments we make. We are judged by some label or affiliation, and whatever we feel is the opposite of what we are is "bad" or "evil" even.

The worst thing that ever happened to this country, the biggest trick played on us all is this stupid two party thing. It creates a lack of trust for our neighbor and pretty much has created enough of a division to keep us all from real progress.

Sean Hannity=Keith Olberman=Bill O'Reilly=Janeane Garafalo=Anne Coulter=Chris Matthews=Michelle Malkin

They are all the same to me. Disinformation agents.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 05:08 PM
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reply to post by warrenb
 


Wow... they aren't even allowing ANY protests at the G20 in Pittsburgh? I didn't know that. Yes you are correct, it could be a powder keg for sure.

Great quote:

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolutions inevitable." John F. Kennedy



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 06:14 PM
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Awesome post. Thank you.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 06:27 PM
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She should keep making her videos and writing papers...what she thinks will occur, the opposite happens...I find this very useful.

I first saw her last October, when she was calling for action because she said that the PTB would never allow Obama to take power from an election victory. Unless something went down on that topic...the exact opposite of her prediction came to be.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by warrenb
 


Kind of Ironic that point state park was the last place I visited in P'burg and part of it was closed off then. Anyways, my question is this: Why ask the government for permission to excercise our GOD GIVEN RIGHTS? I'm afraid that no protest will do any good until much blood is shed. Otherwise the media won't cover it and the PTB will simply downplay it.
If you're going wear full riot gear and gas masks just like the cops, that would make things far more interesting.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 06:36 PM
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Yeah, great thread. I had never thought about how even if we DO protest, and follow their silly little rules while doing it, it accomplishes nothing. She was very clear and made a very good point. So it seems to me, if you want change, you're going to be a criminal.

Everyone should watch this video.




posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by IDK88
 


Ok, so what did you think of what she said in the video?



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by A Fortiori

We aren't judged by the individual comments or logical arguments we make. We are judged by some label or affiliation,


I'm glad to see that point being made. We read post after post where its the Right vs the Left with both sides blinded by Partisanship or labels they apply to themselves.

For me, when I try to communicate my thoughts as an Independent not subscribing to either the Left or Right I immediately get labeled as belonging to whichever side I'm not in agreement with on just the one issue.

Keeping us at each others throats is clearly the plan.

I had somebody the other day tell me "we don't want people like you around here" then the poster came back a couple of minutes later and edited as it was gone when I went back to look again. The topic was not even a political topic and yet because I don't buy into every theory out there I'm labeled.

As long as this goes on and it has probably since tribes did battle with each other before civilization started, it will be used to control us.

Even I'm guilty I admit. Because Naomi Wolf was on the tape I almost did not watch it. I in fact totally agree with her on this topic. I expected a Partisan rant. It was a good lesson for me.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
 





Wow... they aren't even allowing ANY protests at the G20 in Pittsburgh? I didn't know that. Yes you are correct, it could be a powder keg for sure.


Thanks for the summary.

So TPTB will not let us protest


Protests, letter writing just do not work



The G20 is on sept 24 & 25, a Thursday and Friday. I am not much of a joiner, and i do not protest, I vote with my feet. That week I will go to my bank and withdraw my money and close the account. I may open an account else where but I am definitely CLOSING an account THAT week.




posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 06:54 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


*pats back*

See. I came from those trenches myself, but when I stopped watching television I noticed that I stopped thinking in terms of Left and Right. That's when I realized that it is brainwashing and I didn't want to be a part of that.

I don't understand how we can meet an individual at the store, know nothing about them and come away thinking what a great person we just met. But we meet that same person and know either their political affiliation or religion and suddenly we start to prejudge and have a comeback just ready for them lest they say something. I just wish we could learn to be more open to everyone's ideas.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 07:00 PM
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I don't think it is necessary to use labels to describe Naomi Wolf, it is irrelevant to catergorise her social philosophy and commentation. If it is important to address her in a manner for resonant identification, then fellow-American, or fellow-citizen should be enough. As a lady citizen she is both very worried and very concerned to what has over-shadowed the sense of America as being truly the 'land of the free', because clearly...it certainly isn't: definately not in the same contextual sense as the 'idea' ingrained culturally.

Be that as it may, Wolf has provided two clear edifying books warning on the stealthy neutering of American democratic society. The idea of which remains ambient in the hearts and minds of Americans, but legislatively prohibits its expression and defence. To understand the reasons why the freedom of expression of 'freedom' is legislatively prohibited now in most places, not only in America, but most western countries, one needs to educate oneself to whom the real enemies of democratic freedoms are, and why they have sought to dilute that freedom of expression of freedom?

Ultimately, it is vast corporate interests that want to corporatise all societies, and run them as businesses, turning the status of 'citizen' (of whichever country) into the status of 'employee': effectively turning the world into a 'hive' society, and most populations into worker drones...to do with as the corporate interests see fit. Our societies are being stealthly moulded into such corporatised extensions. Its greatest impediment, its largest obstacle in its way to fulfilling this goal is 'individualism', because individualism by its very nature carries within it the very essence of the urge for freedom and self-expression, America's birth was an embryonic nation's expression for self-individualism, self-autonomy, self-nurture, but of course, over the succeeding centuries, this has been diluted drip by drip, because the people (descendents of the people alive at the time of America's founding) allowed it to happen.

Such an allowance is/was not a fault, but a flaw. You cannot have a 'free' country if you do not participate every day to ensure it remains free, even if your participation leads to your death. It is often the case that for future generations to be free to some extent, it is necessary that their ancestors paid for their descendents freedoms with their lives, because freedom is always under attack fom those to whom you entrust its keeping. Freedom is not, never was, and never will be free...it always requires sacrifice. Many generations can pass before there is a call for a sacrifice to be made, and I now believe we in the western-world are on the cusp of being called to do so. It may take the losing of your country (or some other country) before one becomes resolute and fortified to be willing to make that sacrifice.

Don't misunderstand my contextual usage of the word sacrifice, for I am not advocating it through the manner of violent struggle, but that of peaceful protest that disrupts the status quo. Such peaceful protest and civil disobedience must occur without violence, nor matter how much violence is visited upon you...there must be no retributive reaction, otherwise it will fail.

The corporate interests that have shut down the democratic process of free expression of civilian anger, and the pathetic politicians whom are on the pay rolls of the corporate interests, do not want things to be halted; and indeed, it may take the complete and irreparable breakdown of societies to return back to the very idea of 'democratic freedom', and if that happens, great sacrifices will occur, but out of it will emerge a more powerful idea of citizen participation in the running of the country. It may be the next required evolutionary step in the civilisation of our species, for such a struggle will undoubtedly bring us all together, it will break down the racial and dogmatic barriers that have consistently been used to keep us all apart.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
 





Wow... they aren't even allowing ANY protests at the G20 in Pittsburgh? I didn't know that. Yes you are correct, it could be a powder keg for sure.


Thanks for the summary.

So TPTB will not let us protest


Protests, letter writing just do not work


Actually, that quote is a summary of Warrenb's video (the second video in the thread). The summary of Naomi is in the 4th post.





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