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(Possible) evidence that we DO leave our bodies each night?

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posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 10:55 PM
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As some people on ATS know, I suffer from major depression. The only escape is to go to sleep and dream, because while having a dream I am 'me' but I don't have all the extra baggage that I carry in 'real life'. I am happy, excited about things I lost interest in years ago (due to the depression). If I could stay there forever I would.

Here is a list of symptoms most people experience, for anyone who doesn't understand what major depression is (I come across people all the time who don't know how much impact it has on our lives).


  • Loss of interest in normal daily activities
  • Feeling sad or down
  • Feeling hopeless
  • Crying spells for no apparent reason
  • Problems sleeping
  • Trouble focusing or concentrating
  • Difficulty making decisions
  • Unintentional weight gain or loss
  • Irritability
  • Restlessness
  • Being easily annoyed
  • Feeling fatigued or weak
  • Feeling worthless
  • Loss of interest in sex
  • Thoughts of suicide or suicidal behavior
  • Unexplained physical problems, such as back pain or headaches

  • www.mayoclinic.com...=symptoms

    As I was saying... while being 'me' in a dream, all of these problems disappear. I know it's 'me' because last night for example I was dreaming about something that involved my brother who I was conversing with. I was genuinely enthusiastic and excited about this game we used to play, even though in 'real life' I don't have enough energy or enthusiasm to play it. The same goes for all of my other hobbies and interests.

    It wasn't like a memory from the past, it was current, if that makes sense.

    People who have had NDEs (near death experiences, the 'soul' leaves the body) usually report being free of all worries and feel love and warmth. They want to stay in that state, but are reluctantly called back to their bodies. Here is an example of that.


  • One young man tried to kill himself by taking an assortment of pills – Librium, Demerol, Valium, Dilantin. As a result of this ingestion, he remained unconscious for four days. He remembers finding himself in a gray area:

    "The only thing that I can remember about this is just grayness. Like I was in gray water or something. I couldn't really see anything. I couldn't see myself there, either. It was just like my mind was there. And no body."

  • While he was in this state, he felt good:

    "Normally, I'm a very anxious, a very nervous person – a lot of fears and things like that. And during this, all the fear was gone. I had no fear whatsoever. Almost an adventurous feeling. Excitement."

  • Dr. Ring: "Did you want to stay in that condition?"

    "Yeah. It was a very good feeling."

  • www.near-death.com...

    If it's true that we do in fact leave our bodies each night (or most nights) when we sleep (as Robert Monroe concluded), then my dreams support this idea. Although I'm not an expert on sleep or dreaming so this is just speculation.

    Has anyone that's had a conscious OBE (out of body experience) experienced this 'emotional detachment' from their usual 'selfs'? One reason I'd like to achieve a conscious OBE is to see whether or not this 'detachment' applies in this state too. I'd assume that it would, because aren't NDEs and OBEs the same thing ('soul' leaves the body)? The only difference being that NDEs are forced when the body actually dies (cardiac arrest etc)?

    This could mean that while dreaming, we do separate from our physical bodies as if we were having an OBE or an NDE. We just interpret it differently, maybe...

    [edit on 30/8/09 by dmorgan]




    posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 11:18 PM
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    Although this was very entertaining, as I suffer from depression, but am winning the fight so to speak as of the past years. I find no evidence or truth in this observation.

    When the body enters REM sleep the brain observably is exactly the same as when you are awake, it's amazing, looking at scans you would remark, 'Oh the person seems to be awake!" But this is not the case.

    Now if the brain didn't light up as much as it did during REM sleep, the time in which you are dreaming, and usually you remember the dream when you are disrupted and awoken during the REM sleep. Then I could see a valid point, but the brain is working just as hard as it is when you're fully conscious.

    Now as for me, my dreams are full of anxiety, and awe inspiring events.

    I've had dreams the world nuked itself, to where, I was dragged to hell. lol.

    I've also had naughty dreams, and dreams where I was just a badass at life itself.

    Or my favorite, I CAN FLY dreams! lol, it feels so real.

    Edit to add: star and flag, since it is intriguing.

    [edit on 30-8-2009 by Republican08]


    Here is also a neat article I found while research this Monroe Character
    news.bbc.co.uk...

    [edit on 30-8-2009 by Republican08]



    posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 11:32 PM
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    I've got the same thing - major depressive illness. Unfortunately, I don't get any relief from sleep, since I still have the baggage in sleep. So, I'm OK with being conscious.

    You are wondering whether we "leave the body" during sleep. I have a different question. What makes you think we're in the body during wakefulness? Can our minds - whether spirit or just mental processes - be said to have any location? Those who believe the mind is nothing more than the workings of the brain - various chemical and electrical impulses making up our thoughts and personalities - may argue that the mind is where the chemical and electrical impulses take place. Maybe so, but... how can we know?

    For instance, think of some place you're familiar with, somewhere you know well and have been to often. Maybe an old house you lived in, or school, whatever. Where are you when you're thinking of that place? Where is your mind, I mean, not your body? Does your mind/spirit "go" there when you think of that place?

    Same if you're dreaming. Does your mind or spirit actually "go" anywhere? Does it even make sense to say that our minds have location at all? Can we confidently say that the mind is in one place, but not in another place?

    When considering matters such as this, I think it is helpful to resort to more or less poetic language, metaphors and such. I don't know if the mind goes anywhere; but it is *as though* the mind travels. When asleep, it is as though the mind leaves the body and wanders through the world, or through the astral plane, or whatever. It is as though it visits different places and times. Does it *really* travel? I don't know. I may never know the answer. But it feels that way, and that's good enough.



    posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 11:37 PM
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    reply to post by dmorgan
     


    From my personal experience, I would say that what is being described by the person who overdosed on the cocktail of drugs, is of a far higher spiritual nature, feels like being in an "ocean of Love", "one with God" kind of experience. I would describe the visuals of it as floating/being part of a beautiful silver/mercurial ocean, I distinctly remember seeing waves. I had experience over 12 years ago, and will never forget how beautiful it was. I was unconcious at the time, due to several blows to my right temple.

    The above experience is different to the astral journeys(?) I sometimes go on. They are lovely, but don't come near to what I experienced while unconcious from the blow to the head.



    posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 11:41 PM
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    All I have to say... is wow, your ending sentence is quite the clincher.



    Maybe an old house you lived in, or school, whatever. Where are you when you're thinking of that place? Where is your mind, I mean, not your body? Does your mind/spirit "go" there when you think of that place?


    The brain is well intertwined, very much so, especially at the beginning, you can find how this all interacts and ramachandran can explain how it works via phantom limbs, limbs that are no longer their for amputees, yet they will continously claim that it is their, and not only is it their! but it hurts!!!

    Now when I go back to thinking of always hanging out at the bowling alley, I can get the sensations as if I was there, although i'm not, my memory in my brain is recalling the information, and I can interpret the feelings. PTSD, is highly susceptible in this as well.





    Does it *really* travel? I don't know. I may never know the answer. But it feels that way, and that's good enough.


    Now I didn't see that coming at all!

    That is an inappropriate answer. Just because something feels a certain way, shouldn't mean that we go balls in and believe the absurd now.

    I don't know if you believe it does or not, but before you do, acquire the knowledge of it, don't go off feelings.



    posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 11:54 PM
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    I can debunk the whole thing. You claim that in your dreams you don't have worries etc.

    Although I do have a lot of good dreams, especially the ones where I can float and the ones where I see my dead brother. I also have dreams where I am being chased, or where I get into a physical fight for my life.

    In both of the 'bad' scenarios, I feel genuine fear. But like I said, I love dreaming when I see my brother, the weird part though is that we never talk. I can never hear his voice, once I talked to him this was right after he died. But he never talks back. I always hug him, and instantly upon seeing him I know I am dreaming and it's not real. I know because he no longer exists in my reality, thus I have to be dreaming. I also have a sense of urgency when I see him. I know that I will soon lose him again and I try to spend as much time with him as possible.

    Thus I believe all emotions and feelings can be felt in dreaming, and requires no exodus of your physical form.



    posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 11:57 PM
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    reply to post by dmorgan
     


    Same thing with me, my sleep last night was possibly the "best time" I had in a while.
    I agree, usually the load and the BS disappear for me in dream land...
    Unfortunately my depression seems to be getting much worse, I am starting to FEEL
    that the world is a scam and am starting to feel justified in feeling this way.
    Right on though, at least there is that other place



    posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 12:43 AM
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    reply to post by dmorgan
     


    Ive had OBE experiences....and one thing i can agree on is the feeling is undiscribable.....the difference i have withmany obe'ers is that im never in this reality.....for instance...i dont leave my body and walk around in my house or go down the street...mine start with a white tunnle of light and when i go thru im in this wonderful colorful lucious world..almost like sometype of fantasy ...andi had no fear at all..it was pure love...iwas so caught up in it..everthing problem is non existent....i even meet beings...i never even asked them them questions that matter most to me in this life(about life)because i was so free.....and then when i cameback i was depressed i hated it here...everything here just seems plain dead to me here u kno



    posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 01:59 AM
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    off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


     



    posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 05:12 AM
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    Is there a condition for when you don't remember your dreams? I would love experience all this weirdness everyone else does. Unfortunately I only remember one dream in my entire life and that was when I was very young. It was horrific, but still a nice escape from reality.

    I don't believe in out of body experiences. I think there is a rational explanation for everything.



    posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 05:38 AM
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    Just because you are depressed doesn't mean you are incapable of experiencing a wide range of emotions, whether in the real world or the dream world. When I went through my period of depression I experienced all sorts of states of euphoria and such in both dreams and waking life, yet my predominant emotional experience was depression.

    My interpretation of your dream is that your subconscious mind is reminding you that you are capable of achieving happy emotions. Your body does not own your emotions, why should they not travel with you when you leave your body? What this comes down to is belief. Consciously you believe you are depressed as you stated, so therefore this idea dominates your experience. Subconsciously you probably believe that you are capable of all range of emotions within human understanding, and can therefore experience those while asleep and dreaming. You are simply accessing different layers of mind and reality while you are sleeping, hence the different experience.

    With that said, I still believe it is entirely possible that consciousness leaves the body while sleeping, just not because of the reasoning you suggested.



    posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 05:41 AM
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    Originally posted by System
    Is there a condition for when you don't remember your dreams? I would love experience all this weirdness everyone else does. Unfortunately I only remember one dream in my entire life and that was when I was very young. It was horrific, but still a nice escape from reality.

    I don't believe in out of body experiences. I think there is a rational explanation for everything.



    Set alarms to wake you up starting 3 hours before when you want to get up.

    For instance, if you want to wake up at 9am. Set one alarm at 6am, then at 630, 7, 730, 8, 830, 9.

    As soon as you wake up from the alarm, go back to sleep. After it goes off a couple times, when you wake up next try to remember what you were just thinking about. You will start to briefly remember, and anything you do remember write down immediately. Most often your writing may be incoherent but continually practice this and you will be dreaming everynight.

    I remember at least one dream every night, but often remember more upto 3-4 seperate dreams. My girlfriend says she only remembers 1 dream a year or so, and I would hate if that was the way I was.



    posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 05:56 AM
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    Vipassana, maybe it is my subconscious reminding me of how it feels to be happy and excitied.

    It might have been a stretch to say how I dream is possible evidence that we leave our bodies at night. Maybe the question I need to ask is, why do I only feel these emotions, this thrill for life while I'm asleep? It's possible I'm just remembering the positive dreams because I long for that feeling, to be happy, and my subconscious forgets the negative ones because it knows I don't want those feelings.

    I have tried all the tricks to keep my waking mind in a positive place, but have never been able to achieve the great feeling I experience in dreams.

    chiron613, interesting you say that. I started a thread earlier called Is our knowledge stored in our brain, or somewhere else?, which is similar to what you're talking about I think.

    Thanks for the input people!



    posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 06:39 PM
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    I don't believe we leave our bodies every night. Just on certain nights.



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