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Aliens Exist - Newsweek August 31, 2009

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posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 12:04 AM
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Here's something SETI, maybe wasing time looking for contact, the way their doing it.

article I found. It was written
on 9/2/04 on the website for ABC Science Online. The article explains that radio waves weaken as they travel through space. Radio waves have been used as a way to try to contact aliens. The article argues that this might not be the best way, instead the article talks about written messages and how they may have a better chance to be read by aliens.
For a message to be sent to aliens through radio waves a long distance from earth, the article explains, that we would need an antenna the size of earth in order to do so and even then the chance would be small to contact aliens




posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by googolplex
 

Did you mean to include a link? If so I can't see it.

Radio waves and light waves are both different forms of what is called "electromagnetic radiation", and the frequency of the radio waves varies just like the tuner on your AM or FM radios. But if you could extend that tuner a long long way, you'd be dialing into light waves instead of radio waves (theoretically, but in practice we use light telescopes to collect distant light waves and radio telescopes to collect radio waves, and their construction is a little different to accommodate the different frequencies).

imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov...




Radio waves, visible light, X-rays, and all the other parts of the electromagnetic spectrum are fundamentally the same thing, electromagnetic radiation.


So saying we can't detect distant radio waves, is like saying we can't detect the light from distant stars, obviously we can do both.

The energy output of distant stars has to be quite bright for us to see them, and assuming aliens aren't broadcasting radio waves at a star-like intensity, their distant radio signals will be harder to detect than distant stars, which probably means realistically only the systems nearest to Earth's galactic neighborhood have a chance of alien radio transmissions being discovered.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by Nick_X
 


Well there is live beyond our planet, and scientists have confirmed...

Living Bacteria From Space




Evidence of living bacterial cells entering the Earth's upper atmosphere from space has come from a joint project involving Indian and UK scientists. The first positive identification of extraterrestrial microbial life will be reported on Sunday, 29 July 2001 at the Astrobiology session of the 46th Annual SPIE meeting in San Diego, USA by Professor Chandra Wickramasinghe of Cardiff University. He will speak on behalf of an international team led by Professor Jayant Narlikar, Director of the Inter-Universities Centre for Astronomy and Astrophysics in Pune, India. Samples of stratospheric air were collected on 21 January 2001 under the most stringent aseptic conditions by Indian scientists using the Indian Space Research Organisation's (ISRO) cryogenic sampler payload flown on balloons from the Tata Institute Balloon Launching facility in Hyderabad. Part of the samples sent to Cardiff were analysed by a team at Cardiff University led by Professor David Lloyd and assisted by Melanie Harris. Commenting on the results, Professor Wickramasinghe said: "There is now unambiguous evidence for the presence of clumps of living cells in air samples from as high as 41 kilometres, well above the local tropopause (16 km), above which no air from lower down would normally be transported." The detection was made using a fluorescent cyanine dye which is only taken up by the membranes of living cells. The variation with height of the distribution of such cells indicates strongly that the clumps of bacterial cells are falling from space. The daily input of such biological material is provisionally estimated as about one third of a tonne over the entire planet. This new evidence provides strong support for the Panspermia theory of Sir Fred Hoyle and Chandra Wickramasinghe. "We have argued for more than two decades that terrestrial life was brought down to Earth by comets and that cometary material containing microorganisms must still be reaching us in large quantities," said Professor Wickramasinghe.


Science A Go Go



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by The Songwriter
reply to post by Nick_X
 


Well there is live beyond our planet, and scientists have confirmed...

That would be fascinating if true, but isn't it a stretch to say "scientists have confirmed"? Don't scientists confirm things through independently repeating experiments of other scientists and publishing the results in peer reviewed scientific journals?

I am not aware of "science a go-go" being such a peer-reviewed publication, is it? and did any other scientist confirm the observations in separate experiments? And even if they did, the article says bacteria can't get that high by "normal" means, well what about unusual means, like hitching a ride on a sprite for example, how could he rule that out?

The Martian rock ALH84001 would be more convincing proof of ET life if it's ever confirmed, as you don't have to wonder how high bacteria can really drift in the atmosphere when you find the evidence from Mars. en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by Nick_X
What is your take on the media now starting to come around about face? TPTB losing their grip?

AAAAAAAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH!

ooo watch out Powers that Beeee!... the mainstream media is slipping out of your control!!!
yea right...

more like PTB = MSM


Or slowly trickling more information out for us to feed on??


yeah... drip drip drip I.V.

that's more like it.

-



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 10:07 PM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 

I did not suppply link as only presented this to reinforce my previous statment.

But you said it and this is why looking for Radio Waves from another civilization, would be like looking for needle in hay stack.

You would need very, very, large Radio Telescope.



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 12:21 AM
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reply to post by kyred
 


My thoughts exactly...... I mean, what if our methods for communication are technologically obsolete.... I mean we as humans barely use radio waves anymore..... so y would some advanced alien race use them??? lol...
anyway, if they wanted to communicate they can just stop by whenever they wanted, not send stupid transmissions...



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 01:59 AM
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Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by Nick_X
What is your take on the media now starting to come around about face? TPTB losing their grip? Or slowly trickling more information out for us to feed on??

I don't see any about face in the media, certainly not in the article you linked to. Yes the title is very misleading, but you did just copy the title, so that's ok. But your assertion of some kind of about face...are you basing that on the title? or on what the article says?



Thank you for your contributions in this thread - liking the SETI parabola picture, it reminds me of a James Bond (?) movie where the final scene is a gunfight atop the transmitter structure.

What I gleaned from the article is Newsweek's method of outlining the probability of alien life existing. Through the rough calculations they provided, along with the many ongoing scientific studies...they are basically announcing "due to probability and the sheer number of possible habitable planets, and data gathered from our most recent probes etc - we find no way to deny the existance of life outside of planet earth"
I'm surprised they didn't mention the finding of amino acids by NASA's Stardust probe. The title is true, but at this stage we are still guessing and havent actually found anything.

I was mostly stunned by the title, yes, that Newsweek that listed "Aliens Exist" as the #1 "Fact you need to know right now". Newsweek is not the type of magazine to make literary inferences, but more of a publication of non-fiction information, usually of a political, ecological, or historic nature. For them to consider and announce the existence of Aliens, even though the article makes a number of sidesteps...ie mentioning we won't have more information till 2013...


By 2013, says Borucki, Kepler is likely to have located "hundreds or even thousands" of potentially habitable worlds


I think this article could be the wedge in the door of mainstream society's mind - opening that mind to the FACT of Alien Life existing. They put it on the front cover!! The front cover of Newsweek! When else in history has the front cover of a 2.7million issue/week circulated mainstream publication led to an article announcing the existance of Aliens?

To me it is a pretty massive about face, since UFO reports and sightings are often presented with ridicule and doubt in the media (bar the recent Mexican Government Footage). These stories are normally left for The Sun and tabloids to run with rather than long time respectable publications.

Oh and btw - you guys don't need to buy the magazine unless it's for a collection. Yknow....to commemerate the day that the MSM announced Aliens Exist



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by Nick_X
 



i think the headline has confused you. Headlines are designed to catch peoples attention and get them interested.

they make it clear in the podcast that the statement "aliens exist" is a reflection that "more than ever before scientists are concluding aliens exist"

well its been that way for a while and its an opinion most of the population shares. The bigger questions are : how common are planets with complex life? & how common is intelligent life?



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by Nick_X
 

i think the headline has confused you. Headlines are designed to catch peoples attention and get them interested.


This statement can't be re-inforced enough! I absolutely agree Yeti.
Coming from a background of investigative journalism, I can personally attest that headlines are for the purpose of grabbing attention ONLY. Once into the article, the writer will clarify his Headline's statement (if it's a good author LOL).

Arby -

I have some problems with SETI, but you're right, it's great that they are looking, and their telescope array is AMAZING!

My main problem with SETI is the way they dismissed the WOW signal, and the signal we received via NASA from the orbit of Saturn.

The reason they gave, was that the signal never repeated (as if they were constantly monitoring that region of the sky, which they weren't).

Their rationale on this point is severely flawed, and our own human civilization illustrates this daily. Navy communications are usually encrypted, and do not repeat once acknowledged.

To ignore the possibility that the WOW signal (we know it wasn't a pulsar, or other natural phenomenon we're yet familiar with) is simply an act of discounting evidence from the data set that doesn't fit with the SETI theory of how a signal SHOULD be received here on Earth.

The fact is, SETI has found several signals of interest, yet has discounted them all.

I have a hard time with that personally.

I also have a hard time listening to Seth Shostak repeatedly condemn any method of searching for ET life outside of Radio Wave Detection.

I'm sure his reasons are to continue SETI's funding, and while that's all well and good, it's still hard to hear him flat out lie on National Radio and Television, about the chances of finding ET life through other detection means.

Thoughts?

-WFA



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 10:40 PM
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Originally posted by WitnessFromAfar
I also have a hard time listening to Seth Shostak repeatedly condemn any method of searching for ET life outside of Radio Wave Detection.


I know what you mean, he's always come across that way to me too in the past, until very recently.

There may be a new kinder, gentler Seth Shostak now that I've never seen before, in this video. Start watching at 8m10s when Nick Pope suggests SETI and UFO researchers work together:



www.abovetopsecret.com...


Originally posted by Arbitrageur
...Seth Shostack said he was open to SETI and UFO researchers reaching out to each other since they're looking for the same thing but with different methods. He even said he's sort of a part time UFO investigator because of all the UFO e-mail he gets, I never saw THAT coming! "Its worth investigating" he said. I've never seen that side of him before, I think that's different from his past rhetoric, so that was interesting.


Do you think he might be coming around?



posted on Sep, 2 2009 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


Gosh I sure hope so Arby


Thanks for posting that clip, I hadn't seen it.
I certainly hope that you're right. In the past I've even seen him decry Optical SETI, which could only work in supplement with Radio SETI (yes I know Radio waves are light waves too, but you know what I mean, telescope differences...).

Cooperation and rationale debate can only make us stronger!


-WFA



posted on Sep, 2 2009 @ 03:56 PM
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I like this post because of the answers it got.

But Newsweek isn't going to say anything it's not told to say.

Their little write-up is more interesting for what it doesn't mention. As far as this magazine is concerned, the Disclosure Project, Project Camelot, all their witnesses, all their reports - just don't exist. (And I am only mentioning a tiny fraction of what's out there.) What kind of credence can I give to a media that is so unwilling to cover what these people are talking about?

I don't think its worth it to even expect that the Mainstream Media will ever cover this topic properly. We need to realize that the ball is truly in our court on issues of this type. What we can do in the way of getting the word out on these topics is all that is ever going to be done. If we want the media to change we will have to replace it with completely new organizations owned and controlled by completely different people working for completely different goals and purposes.



posted on Sep, 2 2009 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by l_e_cox
 


Exactly, MSM will never cover that.

That's why we have to thank ATS for providing this great site where we can see alternative views that will never be covered by MSM.

Thank you ATS for providing these forums, and also all the great contributors here who expose some things MSM is unwilling to expose.

@WFA, I guess we'll have to see if Shostak follows through on what he said. When he said "It's worth investigating" UFO's, I'm pretty sure he didn't mean HE was going to do it. But at least it's a step in the right direction.

Frankly I think it will be exciting to get proof of ETs whether it's from Seti or from a flying saucer that lands on the white house lawn, either way is good for me.



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 06:29 AM
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reply to post by WitnessFromAfar
 



The fact is, SETI has found several signals of interest, yet has discounted them all.


No theyve not discounted them all definitively. The ones where they cant say what the source was are catergorized as "unknown". This is they key diffirence between real science and pseudo-science like ufology.

They cant prove the signal was of ET , terrestrial, natural origin or a fault in their equipment. When they looked again they didnt see a signal. They have no further data to go on. Now im sure in the world of ufology everyone would be quite happy to label these signals as ET in origin, give each other high fives and declare as fact we are not alone.

That would be unscientific. The correct way to label them is "unknown" and until a repeat signal is detected they have no way of confirming the source.

[edit on 3-9-2009 by yeti101]



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by WitnessFromAfar
 



The fact is, SETI has found several signals of interest, yet has discounted them all.


No theyve not discounted them all definitively. The ones where they cant say what the source was are catergorized as "unknown". This is they key diffirence between real science and pseudo-science like ufology.

They cant prove the signal was of ET , terrestrial, natural origin or a fault in their equipment.



With respect, you've not studied the Wow signal in depth, nor the signal from Saturn's orbit, judging from your comment here.

Neither signal was terrestrial in origin, nor naturally occurring (like a pulsar, etc.) Neither was either signal a result of equipment failure.

These theories have been abjectly discounted by the evidence in each case, by professional SETI scientists.

I rarely quote a wiki, but this one is pretty thorough, and you should read it in its entirety and follow its links:
en.wikipedia.org...!_signal



Originally posted by yeti101
When they looked again they didnt see a signal. They have no further data to go on. Now im sure in the world of ufology everyone would be quite happy to label these signals as ET in origin, give each other high fives and declare as fact we are not alone.

That would be unscientific. The correct way to label them is "unknown" and until a repeat signal is detected they have no way of confirming the source.

[edit on 3-9-2009 by yeti101]


Now Yeti, you know better than that. They expected it to repeat 3 minutes later. And when it didn't, they only continued to look in that spot in the sky for about a month. Then rechecked at random intervals years later. Telescope time is expensive. You know better than that, and to represent otherwise is well, not very intellectually honest.

Your statement assumes that we've been watching the area of the sky since the Wow signal occured, waiting for a repeat.

That is simply not the case, and your comments regarding that signal should be necessarily qualified.

From the Wiki:
"In any case, the signal was expected to appear a mere three minutes apart in each of the horns, but this did not happen.[3] Ehman unsuccessfully looked for recurrences of the signal using Big Ear in the month after the detection.[4]

In 1987 and 1989, Robert Gray searched for the event using the META array at Oak Ridge Observatory, but did not re-detect it.[4]

In 1995 and 1996, Gray also searched for the signal using the Very Large Array, which is significantly more powerful than Big Ear.[4]

Gray and Dr. Simon Ellingsen later searched for recurrences of the event in 1999 using the University of Tasmania's Hobart 26m radio telescope.[5] Six 14-hour observations were made at positions in the vicinity, but did not detect anything similar to the Wow signal.[3]"



Occam's Razor is applied to situations like the Wow signal in other fields of research. Why judge so harshly those that apply Occam's Razor to possible ET events, like the Wow signal, or the signal from Saturn?

Frankly, the Wow signal was EXACTLY what SETI thought an ET signal SHOULD look like.

Occam's Razor is applied specifically to find the SIMPLEST solution that fits with the observed evidence (otherwise known as formulating a hypothesis).

Nothing could be more scientific, then developing a hypothesis and testing it against the observable evidence.

If you're theory fits, then it's deemed accurate until evidence contrary to the theory emerges.

That's science, and frankly I find it offensive to hear you categorize it otherwise.


From the same source:
"The Wow! signal was a strong narrowband radio signal detected by Dr. Jerry R. Ehman on August 15, 1977, while working on a SETI project at The Big Ear radio telescope of Ohio State University. The signal bore expected hallmarks of potential non-terrestrial and non-solar system origin. It lasted for 72 seconds, the full duration Big Ear observed it, but has not been detected again. Much attention has been focused on it in the media when talking about SETI results.

Amazed at how closely the signal matched the expected signature of an interstellar signal in the antenna used, Ehman circled the signal on the computer printout and wrote the comment "Wow!" on its side. This comment became the name of the signal."

and here's an image, to support that statement:



-WFA



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by mrwupy
 


Actually we seem more like telemarketers! Think about it, we just haven't received a reply. More than likely any ET's are ignoring us or we have incompatible technology. But I do agree that we would be ignored by more advanced civilization is because we are by comparison "primitive".



posted on Sep, 3 2009 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by WitnessFromAfar
 



Your statement assumes that we've been watching the area of the sky since the Wow signal occured, waiting for a repeat.


I said they looked again. They couldnt stare at 1 spot for years as they didnt have a dedicated telescope. Now they do with the ATA

Its all about proof. A 1 time anomolous signal is interesting but without it repeating you are unable to check or pin down where its coming from. Maybe one day we will have the technology to say for sure where 1 time signals like that come from. But we arnt there yet.

its fine to use occams razor to speculate but that doesn't cut it in the scientific community when your trying to prove something.

[edit on 3-9-2009 by yeti101]



posted on Sep, 4 2009 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by yeti101
 


I would agree with you here to a point, and thanks for qualifying the telescope time discussion.

I guess where we diverge here Yeti, (and I'm currently a scientist working within the scientific community...) is that I'm perfectly comfortable, in the lack of direct evidence proving a conclusion, to entertain multiple theories at once, as long as those theories fit with the observable evidence in a case.

That's what Occam's Razor is all about, which theory (because oftentimes many competing theories can emerge that fit with the data set) is the simplest solution?

Nobody is claiming that there is direct evidence that the signal came from ET. What I AM stating is that the ET Theory fits with the observable evidence in the Wow signal, and until further evidence emerges in that case, or the signal is repeated, that theory cannot be discounted.

Can we agree on that much? Because honestly, that's about as far as 'Science' can take a case like the Wow signal.

And frankly, forming a Hypothesis that fits with the observable data set is not unscientific. There is evidence to support the existence of ET Life (such as other planets around Sun-like Stars, the age of the universe, etc.).

Where there is smoke, I find there is often fire.

Where there are waterworlds around sunlike stars in the 'goldilocks zone', I'll bet we're likely to discover some life.

My beef with SETI is that the Wow signal (and the signal from Saturn) were dismissed as possible ET Signals, especially in the Mainstream reporting on the signal by Shostak.

Unless you are Seth Shostak (you may be, in which case I mean no personal offense, just professional criticism) I'm not sure why my statements bother you so much.

The Scientific Method is quite clear, and Hypotheses are an integral part of exploring the universe using the Scientific Method.

You can personally disagree with a Hypothesis, sure, but to do so without basing that disagreement on evidence you've found that proves contrary to the Hypothesis, THAT would be unscientific.

Does what I'm saying make sense? I feel this is an important discussion, and that we should talk this point through...

-WFA



posted on Sep, 4 2009 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by WitnessFromAfar
 


well seti have gone back several times to look for it again. It will likely remain a target for future searches. That doesnt sound like theyre discounting it.

and heres a quote from seth shostak on the wow signal.


So was the Wow signal our first detection of extraterrestrials? It might have been, but no scientist would make such a claim. Scientific experiment is inherently, and rightly, skeptical. This isn't just a sour attitude; it's the only way to avoid routinely fooling yourself. So until and unless the cosmic beep measured in Ohio is found again, the Wow signal will remain a What signal.


doesnt sound like its being discounted by him either. Like i said its in the unknown pile.

[edit on 4-9-2009 by yeti101]




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