GM power has shifted to China

Looks to me like this was the deal: Ok, we'll give you our auto industry if you don't pull your money out of dollars.

Remember Hillary's trip to China shortly after Obama's inauguration and shortly before the government's takeover of GM?

oh my dear lord, i'm shocked, i just cannot believe that GM are taking their social welfare payment and using it in the most profitable way they can. who would ever have expected this type of behavior from a big multi-national corporation?

what in the world makes americans think that gm or ford are "american" companies!! have they ever been solely american companies?

reply to post by pieman


I agree, I knew deep in my hart that they were going to get the tax payer money (I mean bailout money) and run to invest somewhere else.

They have not pay back any of the money given, they now have put a dent on the unemployment in this nation that is growing faster that the statistics can keep up and we now will have another company that has kissed the US working class good by.

But hey can anybody blame them? no, blame the policies of our good for nothing politicians that have the power to screw the tax payer while sending our job market oversea with their free trade and globalism.

They and us consumers are the ones that have killed this nation manufacturing.



[edit on 31-8-2009 by marg6043]

Americans seem to think "American Business" is OWNED by Americans. It is not. They shipped our jobs over seas and sold off our corporations, all that is left to sell is the land under our feet and they are selling that too. Please read the following carefully to see the extent to which this country has been sold. Congress is run by lobbies and the lobbies ARE NOT hired by Americans!

K Street Lobbyists Carry Water for OPEC
Disclosure filings indicate massive spending on lobbying by oil-rich countries. As a trading bloc, The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries is one of the world's most powerful.... Since mid-2003, OPEC members will have spent at least $13.3 million in lobbying the U.S. federal government and currying favor with the American public... Source

Selling off American Corporations

According to the website Economy in Crisis, "Foreign ownership refers to ownership of assets of a particular industry by foreign controlled domestic U.S. Corporations (FDC) 50% or more owned by a foreign entity."

By that definition, the percentage of foreign ownership as of 2002 by industrial sector was as follows:

* Sound recording industries - 97%
* Commodity contracts dealing and brokerage - 79%
* Motion picture and sound recording industries - 75%
* Metal ore mining - 65%
* Motion picture and video industries - 64%
* Wineries and distilleries - 64%
* Database, directory, and other publishers - 63%
* Book publishers - 63%
* Cement, concrete, lime, and gypsum product - 62%
* Engine, turbine and power transmission equipment - 57%
* Rubber product - 53%
* Nonmetallic mineral product manufacturing - 53%
* Plastics and rubber products manufacturing - 52%
* Plastics product - 51%
* Other insurance related activities - 51%
* Boiler, tank, and shipping container - 50%
* Glass and glass product - 48%
* Coal mining - 48%
* Sugar and confectionery product - 48%
* Nonmetallic mineral mining and quarrying - 47%
* Advertising and related services - 41%
* Pharmaceutical and medicine - 40%
* Clay, refractory, and other nonmetallic mineral products - 40%
* Securities brokerage - 38%
* Other general purpose machinery - 37%
* Audio and video equipment mfg and reproducing magnetic and optical media -

[and on and on]

Source Watch

Foreign Ownership of our seaports bridges and roads?

The Department of Homeland Security reports that up to 80% of our ports are operated by foreign companies. Foreigners are buying and operating US bridges and toll roads. Sale of the Birmingham Water Works to a French company was under consideration, but fortunately did not go through as foreign sales have in several US cities...

Source

Foreign ownership of U.S. assets amounted to 33% of U.S. GDP in 1990. Today it is valued at over 70% of U.S. GDP. Foreigners own $2 trillion (19% of U.S. GDP) more in U.S. assets that the U.S. holds of theirs. Foreign ownership of the U.S. Treasury market is over 30%, over 23% of the corporate bond market, and 13% of the U.S. equity market. (Statistics courtesy of Bridgewater, Dec 13, 2002.) Source

Why Does the WTO Want My Water?
Up for grabs at the negotiating table is worldwide privatization and deregulation of public energy and water utilities, postal services, higher education and state alcohol distribution controls; a new right for foreign firms to obtain U.S. Small Business Administration loans; elimination of a list of specific U.S. state laws about land use, professional licensing and consumer protections, and extreme deregulation of private-sector service industries such as insurance, banking, mutual funds and securities. Source

Now they are selling the land from under our feet

BEIJING — A special Chinese tour group is heading to the United States later this month to go bargain hunting for houses at foreclosure prices....

Hunting for businesses, employees, too

Cash-rich China, whose purchases of U.S. Treasury notes help prop up the federal government, is looking to recession-stricken America for more than just houses at the right price.

Chinese companies are on the ground looking for U.S. firms on the skids... They're looking for people, too.

"We are aware of a number of Chinese strategic players who are interested in acquiring distressed U.S. assets in a number of industries,"... www.usatoday.com...

This is especially ominous as Congress tries to pass "Food Safety Bills" designed to push US farmers off their land. The real clinker in these bills is -

C. 406. PRESUMPTION:
In any action to enforce the requirements of the food safety law, the connection with interstate commerce required for jurisdiction shall be presumed to exist - HR875

This refers to the Supreme court decision. Wickard v. Filburn

"Filburn was a small farmer in Ohio. He was given a wheat acreage allotment of 11.1 acres under a Department of Agriculture directive which authorized the government to set production quotas for wheat. Filburn harvested nearly 12 acres of wheat above his allotment. He claimed that he wanted the wheat for use on his farm, including feed for his poultry and livestock. Fiburn was penalized. He argued that the excess wheat was unrelated to commerce since he grew it for his own use.

The rule laid down by Justice Jackson is that even if an activity is local and not regarded as commerce, "it may still, whatever its nature, be reached by Congress if it exerts a substantial economic effect on interstate commerce, and this irrespective of whether such effect is what might at some earlier time have been defined as 'direct' or 'indirect.'""

This allows the US government to use the infamous "Commerce Clause" to regulate things that have nothing to do with interstate commerce like baking cookies for the boy scout troop, or the puddle in your driveway.

A walk thru HR875 goes through and explains how US farmers and hobby gardeners are targeted by this particular bill.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
reply to post by aleon1018

 

Just to be clear, GM is changing the way it runs itself.
Instead of GM World Headquarters in Detroit, it will know have GM Headquarters for North America in Detroit, and GM in China will be for therest of the world...at least that is how I am reading it.

It must be a shock to you to realize that your favourite home-grown company has forgotten about you. It isn't even American anymore - it is multi-national and looking after its own corporate interests. That company is an impersonal thing attempting to vacuum up as much of your and my hard earned money as it can. That is its only objective.

It has no allegiance to any people or any country. If you are now broke and their are billions of Chinese with money in their pockets, well, now the Chinese are GM's new best friends.

Not sure why you are surprised.

reply to post by wayno


After having seen a few threads/videos on: 'Who killed the electric car', I had known they deserved their karma for that. But it still appears they anticipated that and are making the best of it. Some blame the unions and lazy Americans. (whatever)

Many things about our world come as little shock to me after Vietnam and the related JFK ( corporporate driven) assassination.

One of my earliest memories was the JFK funeral on TV when I was 5 years old and seeing my mother cry for the very first time.

I'd say more, but it would come across as ( more) delusional/psychoses. ( The American dream)

reply to post by aleon1018


I don't think humans are intrinsically evil or anything, but we tend not to know when we have gone too far in the wrong direction until we have gone too far in the wrong direction.

We learn from our mistakes eventually but sometimes not until there has been a lot of pain. We have definitely gone too far in giving corporations too much power and influence over our lives.

The struggle to change the status quo is itself another pain-filled project. I don't think we will ever get it right, but at least pain from struggling to bring about needed change is better than pain suffered under a corrupt society.

If they arent making it in the USA, China has one of the largest growing economies in the world... why wouldnt they?

I can just imagine these various groups of people calling each other: " suckers" It's hard to say who really is and isn't actually in control.

I'd like to think I control the remote and the mute button. How much do WE really know? It would seem that they're already several years ahead of us........whoever THEY are. It's mind bending and why many of us come here.

So, what can we do besides write about it? Who can actually afford to boycott and or protest?

Self confessed enemy combatants?

After reading through the thread again...

All I can say is that this is potentially a good thing at least for GM. Back in the 80s We were afraid the Japanese would take over and destroy the American auto industry now that the Chinese are in the game and their love/hate relationship with Japan it's a simple case of them shopping for a auto industry that's large enough and not Japanese to be incorporated into their growth.

I say most likely in time we will end up importing cheaper priced and better quality cars from china.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Quality control has been improving. I recall having seen some things in the early 90's made in China that looked as if they made or finished with a coarse file. The fact is we don't know how many things are made in labor camps there or in North Korea. I still see some scary depressing crap from these areas in dollar stores.

A documentary from China on GM there had some native complaining about the poor quality of Chinese made cars compared to the GM cars made there. So, you'd think they would also learn like we did with the Japanese brands. Competion is a good thing and the difference in capitalism.

Still, The Asians don't just learn from the American manufacturing. It wouldn't be long before they also pass us up.

Like with their own version of the volt.

GM had complained that american unions had forced them to make cutbacks in quality to keep their profit higher.

It won't be long before the Chinese workers revolt.

reply to post by aleon1018


The United States to Allow More Hi-Tech Exports to China

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Jul. 31 - The United States will soon allow more high-tech exports to China as part of the issues agreed upon during the recently concluded China-U.S. Strategic and Economic Dialogue this week.

“The U.S. pledged to facilitate exports of high-technology products from the U.S. to China,” Vice-Premier Wang Qishan told China Daily adding that the dialogue was a “full success.”

Well Ladies and Gentlemen here we go again....

It's one of the last cards we have to play and we are just about to give it away. The Chinese will simply take the items or technology and Back/Reverse engineer it and wammo a new Christmas gift item. You know for a fact that once this starts we will see very cheap items showing up on our shelves that could have been made here.

Just yet another example of TPTB looking out for our best interests.

[edit on 1-9-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by SLAYER69


I'm trying to imagine the mindset of a people who really don't like or trust us all that much. Somewhat makes me think of WW2 and the Jews and other prisoners forced to work in labor camps. The wages in China are said to be very low and yet that same GM documentary shows some native buying a car with his debit card as if cash. maybe it was a time share?

One way or another, the Chinese will get their hands on higher technology. Hell, even the manufacturing equipment would do that.

I'd like to think we aren't just giving technology over to them they'll exploit and use against us, but I think we'd do the same with them, if we haven't already with medicines like herbs? ( just an example)

The Chinese have survived many more thousands of years not to be taken over by U.S.

I'd much prefer to be their friend than their enemy. But it seems we both are already our OWN worst enemies and neither of us need that anymore.

Give piecework a chance?

Many other countries have said that Americans are lazy and I won't argue that point. But at least we've had a better taste of freedom we don't ever want to lose either.

Many third world countries have better education techniques and still live in poverty. There's always something to find wrong with the system.

I can only guess that the US agenda has been to give these third world countries a strong taste of capitalism to think more like we do.


What we seem to lack the most of here is humility and education.

We seem to be pretty good at teaching our people street smart techniques as their higher education.

American humble pie is part of the American dream and heritage in order to learn from our mistakes and not repeat them.

In order to get respect, you have to earn it and give some back or the benefit of doubt. Even North Korea wants that.

People talk about labor camps and sex trade in other countries and won't admit we have the same situations here in some form.

America is supposed to set a better example and give credit where credit is due and not to banks who don't need or deserve it.

reply to post by aleon1018


Heres the deal.

China is not the stereotype anymore that many in the west believe them to be. They are rapidly building up their cities and infrastructure. They are building a super highways system modeled on our own. They are expanding at a rapid rate.

All on Credit.

China NPLs could rise in 2-3 years: industry official

BEIJING (Reuters) - Chinese banks' non-performing loan (NPL) ratio could start to rise in two to three years as some of the flood of loans extended in the first half of this year start to turn sour, an industry official said on Tuesday.

Yang Zaiping, executive vice president of the China Banking Association, also said at the Reuters China Investment Summit that he hoped new rules governing banks' capital would be implemented in a gradual way. Those rules would exclude from banks' capital base the subordinated bonds sold to other banks.

Heeding Beijing's call to step up lending in support of the economy, Chinese banks granted a record 7.4 trillion yuan ($1.08 trillion) in new loans in the first six months of the year, or about one-quarter of the country's annual gross domestic product.

Much of that credit was given out based on relatively lax criteria, presenting the possibility of a rise in the NPL ratio as some of those investments go bad, said Yang.

reply to post by SLAYER69


No matter what system of credit or whatever they have there, they still have what they've built, while what we have is their products. It does seem that they're ahead of us in the game. So, yeah, who's laughing at who?

At least we have a cleaner enviroment. Apparently, they can well afford to lose half of their population in the name of progress.

It does seem we've been at war with them anyway. Our credit system doesn't really look like it's going to recover either. Who's really worse off? China seems to be better equipped and use to handling their own people.

Them going back to how things were might be easier than we thought. But I think our government is counting on the opposite by having given their people a strong taste of capitalism and freedom.

I don't mind seeing a documenatary of China, but I still wouldn't want to go there on vacation.

Somebody asked on this thread why cars?

The interstate/fed/state/city highway systems where put in place after WW2 as a method of self defense taking its cue from the German build up to World War Two. It was an early part of the Military Industrial complex that everybody benefited from.

Newer infrastructure that one could look at as just as important would be the hard lines and structure behind the grid...telephone, cable and power with both cable and telephone having now almost completed the move to digital freeing up a lot of old frequency real estate which is getting pricey. I am speaking of the analog frequencies.

All of this stuff needs to be protected and looked upon as a National Security issue which is why the military, government, Detroit, states all worked together to make it happen. Think about it. Your city worker is not only looking after your sewer's but in essence he is looking after a "vital" piece of infrastructure that lends itself towards peace and order in a city. Same goes for the city worker repairing the roads etc etc...

As" infrastructure" becomes more dense it will begin to seem to intrude upon personal liberty's.

I believe this emerging infrastructure will begin to intrude upon personal liberty's yet that is why humans will begin to evolve with machines or computers.

Would you take a Google implant so that the implant almost becomes a part of your psyche. Would you then belong to Google so to speak because of a patent. What if only the Chairmen and Members of the Board would be allowed this Google implant that would allow one to navigate the "infrastructure" of the internet...what I mean by infrastructure is the hard lines, fiber lines etc strung out all over the world as well as all the satellite infrastructure...



How would a human being respond if this type of information could be wired up to your nervous system?

Makes for real good Sci Fi.

Anyhow to some up this wired tirade into the general flow of the thread would be the idea that we are selling off our infrastructure technology (GM) in order to make way for some of the new stuff coming down the pike whatever that may be.



[edit on 1-9-2009 by whiteraven]