Independent Investigation Into Pentagon Attack Yields Alarming Information

Originally posted by A Fortiori
Hi again.

I reviewed the photos and nowhere does it say that the photographs are of "passengers". They are trial photographs and reference victims. Can you please send another link (you or anyone) that says "passengers" of the planes? If not this will just keep going.

Those bodies could be employees of the Pentagon, if you understand my point. Sending a link to "passengers" would help all of the rest of us reading these posts and trying to follow along.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe they were identified as pentagon employees. There was couple of newspaper reports that talk about supossed passenger bodies, but weren't ...uh...completely... supported.

[edit on 9/30/2009 by TheAntiHero420]

reply to post by A Fortiori


Who are you asking?

These are the only published photos that I know of. Several appear to be Pentagon employees but one poor soul could be either a passenger or employee.
There is at least one witness who said that passengers were found still strapped into their seats; see my previous posts.

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by A Fortiori

 

Who are you asking?

These are the only published photos that I know of. Several appear to be Pentagon employees but one poor soul could be either a passenger or employee.

Could be but is NOT. Please take a look at the source of your evidence, these people were "identified," remember?

There is at least one witness who said that passengers were found still strapped into their seats; see my previous posts.

One unsubstantiated claim that, although found online, is not actually in any official account of the crime scene.

How many times do I have to remind you that just repeating things does not make them true?

Originally posted by pteridine
----The bodies were at the crash scene. They were sources of tissue samples. Why do you think the heat at the crash scene was the "kind of heat... that...."completely destroyed" brick and metal? Note the metal seen in the pictures is not destroyed much at all. You have no idea of the amount of heat at the crash scene, do you, lillydale?

Which bodies would you be referring to, exactly? You keep just saying this but you have yet to provide any evidence. I see we have come full circle.

Oh, I am sorry I guess somehow in all my haste, I completely forgot to look at the wings, engines, stabilizer, etc...since all that metal actually survived. I do know the amount of heat at the crash scene as well as the fact that the "Official Story" is the one claiming that a fireball destroyed that outer wall and caused a giant hole that can not actually be linked to any penetrating part of the plane. Yes, they said that the fire from the explosion did all that damage to the wall as well as the intense heat and friction that 'evaporated' the plane. How often do you suppose investigators come across a hole made in a wall with absolutely no physical evidence of anything that would have made that hole.

Do you know how hot the fires were and for how long? I am fairly certain you do not since you are back offering up dead Pentagon employees as passengers AGAIN.

Hint, look above your ignorant post.

[edit on 30-9-2009 by Lillydale]

reply to post by Lillydale


You said: "The crash scene also had no tissue samples. You show me one tooth, one fingernail that was found. Microscopic DNA samples will not survive that kind of heat the completely destroys metal, brick, and almost 70 people. STR is real handy, sometimes."

---These bodies were at the crash scene. The scene of the crash was the Pentagon. These bodies were there, not completely destroyed. Perhaps you are having a hard time understanding this concept.

Originally posted by pteridine
---These bodies were at the crash scene. The scene of the crash was the Pentagon. These bodies were there, not completely destroyed. Perhaps you are having a hard time understanding this concept.

I am sorry, apparently I need to be very very specific for you. DIRECTLY IN THE IMPACT ZONE. These bodies were NOT found in the impact zone but rubble from collapsed sides. I am so sorry that I did not specify that but I thought that anyone who keeps showing the same bodies and claiming they are passengers would have a hard time understanding.

Let me know when you plan on trying to pass them off as passengers AGAIN so that I can write things exactly so that you can understand them.

I guess I just did not need to include the bodies of people who were not only not on the plane but not in the direct impact zone either. Do those bodies look to you like they sustained 3 days worth of 3000+ degrees?????????????

Remember a crematorium is less that two thirds that heat for less than 1/30th the time to completely break down a human body to ash. I hope you feel better now that we cleared that up.

Its against my better judgement to post his but I will anways. Obviously there is a lack of understanding on what the two of you are saying to each other. I'll give this a shot:

Lilly: There were no passenger remains at the crash site.
Pter: We have pics and reports of bodies found at the pentagon.
Lilly: But the bodies are pentagon workers, no hard evidence of passenger bodies.
Pter: But we have pics of them and reports.
Lilly: But nothing actually confirming passengers were there.
Pter: We have 2 articles of people still straped to the seats.

Am I close?



[edit on 9/30/2009 by TheAntiHero420]

reply to post by TheAntiHero420


I cannot claim you misrepresented me there at all. I guess I forgot to keep repeating PASSENGER BODIES. I was just thinking that since Pteridine and I are on about our 3 time around this same dance floor, I did not have to be so carefully specific since I have already said it two or three hundred times. Thanks for summing it up.

reply to post by Lillydale


Fahrenheit or centigrade? How do you know that's how hot it was?
If, as you suggest, the plane was "vaporized," there would be no physical barriers to the heat would there? Why would it selectively destroy the passenger remains but allow the Pentagon employees to be identified by DNA?

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by Lillydale

 

Fahrenheit or centigrade? How do you know that's how hot it was?
If, as you suggest, the plane was "vaporized," there would be no physical barriers to the heat would there? Why would it selectively destroy the passenger remains but allow the Pentagon employees to be identified by DNA?

Dude, I already cited the Firemen statement about the temperature of the fire and yes Fahrenheit, this is America. I did not suggest that the plane was vaporize, the OS does. I suggest it was never there at all.

Did you even bother to look at where these bodies were found in relation to where the plane supposedly crashed? Hint, it is why I specified the crash zone - where the Passengers would have had to be.

reply to post by Lillydale


A fireman says "It must be 3000 degrees in there" and that's good evidence but when a responder says that there were bodies still strapped in their seats, that's not good evidence. When a witness describes the plane impact in detail, that's not good either.
The diagram showing the location of the bodies shows co-location of Pentagon personnel with passengers.

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by Lillydale

 

A fireman says "It must be 3000 degrees in there" and that's good evidence but when a responder says that there were bodies still strapped in their seats, that's not good evidence. When a witness describes the plane impact in detail, that's not good either.
The diagram showing the location of the bodies shows co-location of Pentagon personnel with passengers.

Actually you can look up this fireman's statement to see if what he said accurately reflects the crash scene. Have you not even looked into the fires at the Pentagon yet? It sure sounds like you are not too sure of anything about this incident when you used to seem to be so knowledgeable. What changed? Do you have opposing documentation about the temperature of the fire? What temperature do you think it was and do you think that it only burned for 2.5 hours??????

The difference is that the things that I have posted are also part of the "Officially" documented record while 'passengers still strapped into seats' is NOT. Please prove me wrong. Find the official report on the fires at the crash scene and tell us all how hot and for how long. When you come up with a link to a phony quote about something that is also clearly documented in official reports, then you have something.

Originally posted by pteridine
but when a responder says that there were bodies still strapped in their seats, that's not good evidence.

Please state all the qualifications that the first responder has to be able to identify that the alleged body was a passenger, strapped into an airline seat and where his accoount was mentioned in an official report.

Please state which passenger body was found strapped to the airline seat. Bodies have names, so which passenger was it?

Casual readers to the thread, let's play out pteridine's logic here... he wants all of us to belive that a passenger's body was found strapped to an airline seat on the strength of one unconfirmed witness report.

Now, take a look at the opening post of this thread and see how about a dozen witness reports all place the plane North of Citgo - yet pteridine will ask you to believe that they were all mistaken.


EDIT: It also seems that pteridine has abandonded trying to support his claim that the light pole hit the taxi, so he's trying to help out mmiichael's claim that passenger bodies were found strapped to airline seats.

[edit on 1-10-2009 by tezzajw]

I would think anyone with half a brain would figure out that the temperatures and degree of destruction were not uniform throughout.

The closest to impact cockpit and front end of the fuselage were demolished. Ironically the tail section was pushed through endin up deepest into the wreckage. So the bodies of people at those back of the rear end of the plane came through relatively intact, away from the intensest heat.

Parts like teeth and bone were used for identifying passengers. Most were identified, nothing was found of some, like a 2-year old old girl onboard. It's likely the hijackers were all in the cockpit at the very end.

M

In 1993, the Pentagon began undergoing a renovation project that would modernize the largest office building in the nation. The first phase, in Wedge 1, was five days from completion sign off and turnover to the government when Flight 77 hit. MCAA member Masonry Arts, Bessemer, Ala. was the contractor installing the blast wall system reinforcement and blast resistant window in Wedge 1.

Bartram notes, "The plane hit in an almost perfect spot to prevent even greater loss of life. What you saw collapse was an expansion joint that it hit. When it knocked out all the columns on the first floor, the rest of the building held for about 35 minutes and then it collapsed. We feel that if it hadn't hit that expansion joint, there would have been a hole in the first and second floor and that would have been it. The third, fourth and fifth floors would have stood."

The official report of the attack states:

"Three measures taken during the renovation of Wedge 1 to reinforce the inner and outer walls served to dramatically slow the plane as it entered the building, reduced the extent to which it penetrated the rings, and prevented the immediate collapse of the structure directly above the area of impact. Despite the tremendous impact of the plane and the fire that was fed by the plane's fuel, the 'web' created by the blast-resistant windows, steel columns, and geo-technical mesh, held the building together for 35 minutes, giving many Pentagon employees, some located directly above the area of impact, time to escape.

PenRen Article

Well I suppose we should thank the workers for doing a great job on blast proofing the only wall to ever get hit (slight sarcasm). Notice that the project started in 1993, I'm sure the terrorists would have done a little investigation.

[edit on 10/1/2009 by TheAntiHero420]



Interesting flight path just to hit that one wall, it just doesn't make any sense.

[edit on 10/1/2009 by TheAntiHero420]

Originally posted by mmiichael
So the bodies of people at those back of the rear end of the plane came through relatively intact, away from the intensest heat.

Of course, in your next post you're going to offer your proof for this claim.

Otherwise, we can all dismiss it as your uninformed guess.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by mmiichael
So the bodies of people at those back of the rear end of the plane came through relatively intact, away from the intensest heat.

Of course, in your next post you're going to offer your proof for this claim.

Otherwise, we can all dismiss it as your uninformed guess.

This is information from people who were there and forensic specialists who dealt with the clean up. Their data is a matter of public record. I am not their librarian, but you can look for yourself any time. If you have any capabilities.

My proof is that you and thousands of others who doubt it cannot come up with a strand of evidence to disprove what is known.

Unless you are can provide evidence of your counter theories which seem to be lacking, you are not in any position to question anyone who was actually there or handled remains.

Don't delude yourself into thinking you know anything beyond fantasy notions.

Originally posted by mmiichael
This is information from people who were there and forensic specialists who dealt with the clean up. Their data is a matter of public record. I am not their librarian, but you can look for yourself any time. If you have any capabilities.

In one of your previous posts you stated that you didn't know much of the facts about 9/11. Now you're stating that you don't have the ability to support your claim about the rear passenger bodies being found relatively intact.

mmiichael, you're struggling to keep up in this thread, when all you offer is your uninformed conjecture.

You've now made two claims about the passenger bodies:
1 - some were found strapped to airline seats.
2 - the rear seated passenger bodies were found relatively intact.

Please, in your next post - prove either of those claims.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by mmiichael
This is information from people who were there and forensic specialists who dealt with the clean up. Their data is a matter of public record. I am not their librarian, but you can look for yourself any time. If you have any capabilities.

In one of your previous posts you stated that you didn't know much of the facts about 9/11. Now you're stating that you don't have the ability to support your claim about the rear passenger bodies being found relatively intact.

mmiichael, you're struggling to keep up in this thread, when all you offer is your uninformed conjecture.

You've now made two claims about the passenger bodies:
1 - some were found strapped to airline seats.
2 - the rear seated passenger bodies were found relatively intact.

Please, in your next post - prove either of those claims.

Sort of like a scavenger, you try pick away at whatever someone says. And with the usual embarrassing Truther dopey pose of "gee... I'm only asking questions."

But you are incapable of answering questions. Where is your proof of those wonky theories you smitten with?

If there were no plane and passengers at the Pentagon - what was it then?

As anyone with half a brain can see you are incapable of providing anythin resembling evidence and are just too chickes**t to even forward a different interpretation events.

What happened? Where's you answer? Where's your proof of it?




[edit on 1-10-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by mmiichael
Sort of like a scavenger, you try pick away at whatever someone says.

No, mmiichael, I don't try and pick at what you say - I pick at what you type. You've made two very specific claims about the nature of the passenger bodies and you have not proven those claims.

Originally posted by mmiichael
But you are incapable of answering questions. Where is your proof of those wonky theories you smitten with?

Casual readers to thread, note how mmiichael is trying to avoid and deflect his responsibility to prove his claims.

mmiichael, please for the sake of your credibility, quote me where you think that I have shown full support for any wonky theory.

Your failure to do so will be an admission that you have made another false claim about me.

Originally posted by mmiichael
As anyone with half a brain can see you are incapable of providing anythin resembling evidence and are just too chickes**t to even forward a different interpretation events.

Casual readers note that mmiichael is trying to circumvent the auto-censor by his crass attempt to argue with me.

With his credibility in tatters and his inability to prove his claims about the passenger bodies, or his claims about me, mmiichael is resorting to foul language.

Originally posted by mmiichael
What happened? Where's you answer? Where's your proof of it?

I wish that I knew what happened at the Pentagon. You've certainly failed to prove a consistent story to me. Why don't you try and work a little harder to prove your official government story version?

[edit on 1-10-2009 by tezzajw]