Independent Investigation Into Pentagon Attack Yields Alarming Information

Ok i understand that but why would the So called, the leader of Al Qaeda...Osama Bin Laden claims the 9/11 attack and also, they've been releasing video about it ever since.

Edit: So....i am confused.



[edit on 28-9-2009 by Ufokrazy]

posted by Ufokrazy

Ok i understand that but why would the So called, the leader of Al Qaeda...Osama Bin Laden claims the 9/11 attack and also, they've been releasing video about it ever since.

Edit: So....i am confused.

Actually Usama bin Laden denied any involvement in 9-11 whatsoever, and many intelligence agencies throughout the world agree that Osama probably died way back in December 2001, and all the subsequent 'confession' videos and audios with the fake looking/sounding Osama were manufactured by the actual 9-11 perps.

You were aware that the FBI has no hard evidence linking Usama bin Laden with 9-11 weren't you?

FBI says, it has “No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11”

Bin Laden: AUTHENTIC INTERVIEW

Indirect link to Osama Wanted Poster

FBI direct link to Osama Wanted Poster

Originally posted by twitchy
You forgot to add that we're all nazis and white supremacists as you implied in at least two other threads.

Hey, don't try to misrepresent what I said. You're not all nazis and white supremacists - just sleeping with them (metaphor folks).

The evolution for those who've tracked it, original spontaneous groundswell of the Truth Movement were the educated Democratic liberals. They departed in droves in part driven out and replaced by the right wing redneck, white supremacist, paranoid schizophrenic crowd.

And this is not anecdotal. Check out local meeting sometimes. Also note online the increased predominance of "Jews did 9/11" and "Holocaust Denial."

Maintaining a 9/11 website and selling those videos has become a grubby business.

homelandsecurityus.com...

The members and subsidiary members of the 9/11 Truth Movement are for the most part confused, delusional and are being manipulated by their handlers. Originally their handlers were the Democratic left seeking to push Bush out of office. Since then, their handlers have changed hands to failed politicians, alternative media personalities that are in it just for the money and the purely anti-establishment types that we have had around for decades, the ones that bitch and complain no matter who is in office. They try to muster support by including actors, former and failed politicians, and bottom of the barrel entertainers in their ranks. This only adds to their discredit. Put it this way. When you parade “The artist formerly known as Prince” as a spokesman for your cause, you are scraping the absolute bottom of the barrel. Face it, you lack credibility.

The 9/11 Truth Movement was originally established by the left wing segment of our society, nurtured by the left wing political wing, drew the votes of the left wing in 2008 and now the left wing has turned on them and labeled them as “right-wing anti-government extremists” in an effort to suppress them as they are no longer needed or wanted by the left. These people mere pawns, abandoned in a political game. The left doesn’t want them and the right side of the aisle; the true patriotic Americans certainly don’t want them. They are anti-government, anti-war, they side with the terrorists, and they claim that there is no threats from radical Islam or Islam in general and honestly think that George Bush ordered 9/11 as a covert operation to place us into a war. They aren’t patriots; they are more of an anarchist movement in nature. Many are actually traitors. They served their political purpose up until 2008 and the left no longer needs them.

These 9/11 Truthers first openly showed up in 2002 at a rally in San Francisco with the phrase “Bush Did It”. There were bloggers and some idiot alternative media types that chose to capitalize on this theme scattered about the world, mostly right here in the US. The vast majority of these first 9/11 Truthers were Democrats and slowly as time went on, people from the left, right and middle-of-the-road joined in their cause but the 9/11 Truth Movement members were predominantly left wing Democrats. Eventually this movement was also joined by anti-government types who didn’t care who was in charge, they were conspiracy theorists determined to pin the events of 9/11 on the government. This is where this movement really started to lose their credibility with Americans.

The “Truther Movement” today is an odd blend of left and right, mostly the extreme of both. These include left extremists, right extremists, racists, fascists and anarchists yet they proclaim to be against these same traits within the government. To illustrate this further, simply visit a few of their websites, forums and discussion boards and post something that is in disagreement with “9/11 Truther Philosophy”. To be in disagreement there all you have to do is question the Truther Movement or any aspect of it, disagree with a 9/11 government conspiracy or insist that Islam is a threat to America and al Qaeda is the enemy. Watch what happens. Your posts are censored, usually deleted, and you, the poster are attacked. Meanwhile they claim to be for “Freedom of Speech” and “Liberty for all”. However, if you post something that is racist and anti-Semitic, you are welcomed. These people aren’t patriots. They are simply racist malcontents, the disenchanted ones within our society. Most are not much different from Nazis.

M




[edit on 28-9-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by twitchy
You forgot to add that we're all nazis and white supremacists as you implied in at least two other threads.

Hey, don't try to misrepresent what I said. You're not all nazis and white supremacists - just sleeping with them (metaphor folks).

Do you actually know what "metaphor" means? I just want to make sure that I understand where you are coming from and I am starting to think the problem is a language barrier.

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by tezzajw

 

Tezzalini, try to contribute to the discussion. Cheerleading and trolling are not helpful. Lillydale should meet her/his own standards.

Which standards should I be meeting for you, dear?

Originally posted by pteridine
Evidence that the remains were planted or evidence that the forensic labs were part of a plot.

I never said any remains were planted. Why would I try to prove that?
I never said any labs were in on anything either. I have no need to prove that.

Why do you ask me to prove things I never claimed? I said there was not DNA to recover to begin with.

You have also still not shown how you know that the fire would have destroyed all DNA evidence.

Do you know what temperature it takes to destroy DNA?

I will give you a hint, it is less that the "INTENSE HEAT" that "vaporized" an entire plane.

If you would like to forget about how hot that DNA was, we can go another route.

According to the Official Story, 5 hijackers were identified by DNA from flight 77.

Where did they get a comparison sample from to identify these men? Before you say rented car and hotel room, remember that some of the men turned up alive in other countries. This would mean that the men on the planes went and stole DNA from these other men and hid it in their hotel rooms and cars so that the DNA would identify them as the people on the list that are actually alive. Say stolen identity, please!

OK, let's forget all that and say that they were actually identified by fairy tale reference DNA. Why are they not listed on the autopsy report with everyone else that was supposedly on the plane? I will give you another hint, 3 people on the autopsy list were not on the flight manifest.

Let me know when you decide which argument you want to try to BS away. Go for them all and you get a bonus round.

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by tezzajw

 

Tezzalini, try to contribute to the discussion. Cheerleading and trolling are not helpful. Lillydale should meet her/his own standards.

Now I get it. You are trying to call me out for not backing up things I did not actually say.

Is this supposed to make you look credible, make me appear less credible, or distract us from the fact that you claimed to know the lightpole hit the taxi because of your eyewitness and we can actually watch this same man explain that he did NOT see it?

I am just curious. I have and will back up any claim I make. Even if it is just one, so far that seems to be one more than you.

Is this the real debate? Are you people so blindly running to hump the leg of the first man to enter the room and say "lets kill foreigners!!!" I want the truth. I thought you wanted the truth. When you are called out on being completely wrong and it is proven undeniably, instead of acknowledging the truth and using it to learn and grow, you just try to call me a liar? How does that make you feel at night when you look in the mirror before you go to sleep?

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by twitchy
You forgot to add that we're all nazis and white supremacists as you implied in at least two other threads.

Hey, don't try to misrepresent what I said. You're not all nazis and white supremacists - just sleeping with them (metaphor folks).

Do you actually know what "metaphor" means? I just want to make sure that I understand where you are coming from and I am starting to think the problem is a language barrier.

Most intelligent thing you've said. Communications problems, to say the least. Like we're speaking different languages (simile)


M

Originally posted by mmiichael


Most intelligent thing you've said. Communications problems, to say the least. Like we're speaking different languages (simile)


M

I can always find something to agree about with anyone. Star for you for seeing things my way.

Originally posted by Lillydale

I never said any remains were planted. Why would I try to prove that?
I never said any labs were in on anything either. I have no need to prove that.

Why do you ask me to prove things I never claimed? I said there was not DNA to recover to begin with.

Do you know what temperature it takes to destroy DNA?

I will give you a hint, it is less that the "INTENSE HEAT" that "vaporized" an entire plane.

If you would like to forget about how hot that DNA was, we can go another route.

According to the Official Story, 5 hijackers were identified by DNA from flight 77.

Where did they get a comparison sample from to identify these men? Before you say rented car and hotel room, remember that some of the men turned up alive in other countries.
Let me know when you decide which argument you want to try to BS away. Go for them all and you get a bonus round.

You did ask how you could prove that there were no passenger remains at the Pentagon to back up your statement. Based on what you have said above, that the labs were not in on it and that no remains were planted, the conclusion that you must arrive at is that the Army labs were provided burnt remains to identify. Now your task is to show where the remains came from to prove your case. This should exercise your imagination a little.

Thank you for the non-information on the DNA. You apparently do not know the answer to this and are hoping for the best. The heat of the fire, the temperature gradients of the remains, its effect on DNA, the recoverable sequences; all of this is dismissed with "less than the intense heat" that "vaporized" a plane.
You are wrong, of course. Look up "Short Tandem Repeat typing" and you will discover just how wrong you are.

As to your last question, a little more of your vaunted research will tell you what was claimed. I see you subscribe to the "hijackers-still-alive-in-a-distant-land" theory. That is unfortunate but that is what happens when you have a limited scope and read only material from conspiracy sites.

I hope you enjoy your bonus round.

[edit on 9/29/2009 by pteridine]

Originally posted by pteridine
You did ask how you could prove that there were no passenger remains at the Pentagon to back up your statement. Based on what you have said above, that the labs were not in on it and that no remains were planted, the conclusion that you must arrive at is that the Army labs were provided burnt remains to identify.

Ummmmmmmm huh? Are we speaking the same language at all? I do not know if any labs were in on it and I have no idea if any DNA was "planted" either. I do know that something nefarious had to happen since no DNA was found on the scene.

Read along with me - my statement is that there was no passenger DNA to be found. I asked you how I should prove that.

You are trying to shift the argument. If there was no DNA to be found, none was planted. The lab could either be in on it, have been handed the evidence they were supposed to find, or something I had not thought of yet.

Those are not things I feel strongly enough about to claim to know. That is why I make no definitive statement there.

Keep up. I said there were no passenger bodies. How should I prove there were no bodies?

I did not ask how I should prove aspects on the periphery that you believe must have had to happen in order for what I said to be true. You are assuming things and that is exactly what the "Official Story" was designed to do. Ever seen a magic show? I have no idea how Copperfield makes a sheet of paper turn into a dove. I cannot prove he did it this way or that way or any other way. I can tell you that I am 100% certain though that I can prove that paper does not actually turn into doves. Following along yet?

Now your task is to show where the remains came from to prove your case. This should exercise your imagination a little.

LOL. Seriously? Are you sure you are replying to the correct person? I believe that I have said over and over and over that there were no remains. My homework is to show where the remains I claim were never found came from?

Sure thing. When are you going to show that there were bodies found there?

When are you going to explain what happened to the wings?

How do you explain all the eyewitness accounts that completely contradict each other.

When are you going to show us your super secret special extra bonus copy of the coroner report? That would close this case rather quickly. I can say he found no remains all I like and you can keep asking me to prove something was NOT there. If you get a coroner's report that shows remains were collected from the scene, you would shut me up.

You are also ignoring the fact that the supposed DNA identification of the people on the plane does not match up with the "Official Story." (Hint, no arab men according to autopsy reports.) So, you go ahead and prove there was DNA evidence so you can then tackle that little issue. Until then you need to educate yourself on what some basic English terms mean as well as practice your reading comprehension skills.

I said no passenger remains were found. Want me to prove that? Tell me how. If you really believe that I need to prove DNA was planted or that the lab was in on it, then you need to prove any DNA was found and examined to begin with. It sure was not found at the Pentagon crash scene.

Thank you for the non-information on the DNA. You apparently do not know the answer to this and are hoping for the best. The heat of the fire, the temperature gradients of the remains, its effect on DNA, the recoverable sequences; all of this is dismissed with "less than the intense heat" that "vaporized" a plane.
You are wrong, of course. Look up "Short Tandem Repeat typing" and you will discover just how wrong you are.

You are like a bad headache. STR is for tissue samples that have been exposed to heat or stress. The Pentagon crash scene was hot enough to "blow a hole in the wall with just the resulting fireball." The crash scene also had no tissue samples. You show me one tooth, one fingernail that was found. Microscopic DNA samples will not survive that kind of heat the completely destroys metal, brick, and almost 70 people. STR is real handy, sometimes.

As to your last question, a little more of your vaunted research will tell you what was claimed. I see you subscribe to the "hijackers-still-alive-in-a-distant-land" theory. That is unfortunate but that is what happens when you have a limited scope and read only material from conspiracy sites.

I hope you enjoy your bonus round.

So none of the hijackers are still alive? Can you explain why there is no record of any Arab DNA in all your reliable DNA evidence?

reply to post by Lillydale


Lilly...there was no passenger DNA to be found at the Pentagon...dale ---

HOW are you so certain? Let's focus on that, first. WHOM have you asked, personally, that were there?

"When Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped into their seats. The stench of charred flesh overwhelmed him.

'It was the worst thing you can imagine,' said Williams, whose squad from Fort Belvoir, Va., entered the building, less than four hours after the terrorist attack. 'I wanted to cry from the minute I walked in. But I have soldiers under me and I had to put my feelings aside.'
Rescue Commander U.S. Army Staff Sgt. Mark Williams

Does this man not exist? Is his statement a lie?

I was not there, and I gather neither were you...on scene, I mean. ALSO, I have never personally met Staff Sgt. Mark Williams, and I'm willing to guess you haven't either.

SO...it comes down to FINDING Sgt. Williams, and asking him again to recount his memory of being there. CHECKING his Army records to see if they indicate WHERE he was that day, to verify his authenticity.

THAT is how you conduct a proper investigation and draw conclusions...not from biased conspiracy sites on the Intertubes....

Or, how about a vacation to Virginia Beach???

"I did see airplane seats and a corpse still strapped to one of the seats."
Capt. Jim Ingledue , Virginia Beach Fire Dept

He is(was) the CAPTAIN of his department, it seems...should be easy to find...

reply to post by weedwhacker


Meant to say that, and this, are from the JREF forum...from about one year ago...(not sure if this is cross-posting or not...soryy if it is)


(from poster Alt+F4)

(there was a link here, not working...will search for it)

A multi-disciplinary team of more than 50 forensic specialists, scientists and support personnel from the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (AFIP) played a major role in one of the most comprehensive forensic investigations in United States history following the September 11, 2001 terrorist attack at the Pentagon in Virginia, just outside Washington, DC.

Code-named "Operation Noble Eagle," AFIP’s team of forensic pathologists, odontologists, a forensic anthropologist, DNA experts, investigators and support personnel worked for over two weeks at the Dover Air Force Base Port Mortuary at Dover, Delaware to identify the 188 victims of the attack. "Our staff represented every branch of the service," said AFIP Director Glenn N. Wagner, CAPT, MC, USN, who served as senior officer during the operation.


Why don't the conspiracy liars just contact a few of the folks mentioned in this report? Why not drop by any Metro D.C. fire house and interview a few of the firefighter that saw the bodies?

As for the FBI, why are they lying when they say they saw AA77 passenger bodies at the Pentagon but telling the truth when know the "real reasons" OBL isn't on the most wanted list?

Good points, and good questions.......


[edit on 29 September 2009 by weedwhacker]

First I would like to thank Pteridine, Weedwhacker and Mmiichael for their research and their comments. Great work guys!!
Second I would like to say.
It doesn´t matter HOW MUCH evidence, how many eyewitness accounts, how much science you throw at these guys. They will never retract, they will never accept they are wrong.
They keep bringing back this same “investigations” that only prove how "little" they have investigated, and they will keep on bringing it up under different titles. But it will be the same recycled story of the CIT and Pentagon, over and over again. We shall see.


[edit on 29-9-2009 by rush969]

Originally posted by rush969
It doesn´t matter HOW MUCH evidence, how many eyewitness accounts, how much science you throw at [Pteridine, Weedwhacker and Mmiichael].

They will never retract, they will never accept they are wrong.
They keep bringing back this same “investigations” that only prove how "little" they have investigated, and they will keep on bringing it up under different titles. But it will be the same recycled story of the [Official Story] and Pentagon, over and over again. We shall see.

Originally posted by Jezus
It doesn´t matter HOW MUCH evidence, how many eyewitness accounts, how much science you throw at [Pteridine, Weedwhacker and Mmiichael].

They will never retract, they will never accept they are wrong.
They keep bringing back this same “investigations” that only prove how "little" they have investigated, and they will keep on bringing it up under different titles. But it will be the same recycled story of the [Official Story] and Pentagon, over and over again. We shall see.

As you seem to know things others don't, why don't you tell us exactly what happened at the Pentagon on the morning of September 11. 2001.

Evidence would help.

The world has been waiting to hear the Unofficial Story.


M

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by Jezus
It doesn´t matter HOW MUCH evidence, how many eyewitness accounts, how much science you throw at [Pteridine, Weedwhacker and Mmiichael].

They will never retract, they will never accept they are wrong.
They keep bringing back this same “investigations” that only prove how "little" they have investigated, and they will keep on bringing it up under different titles. But it will be the same recycled story of the [Official Story] and Pentagon, over and over again. We shall see.

As you seem to know things others don't, why don't you tell us exactly what happened at the Pentagon on the morning of September 11. 2001.

On September 11th an explosion occurred outside the pentagon...

The media reported that a plane had hit he pentagon but the coverage didn't include anything that looked like a plane...

The government never released any videos that show a plane hitting the pentagon...

I'm not exactly sure what happened and I'm not claiming anything happened but I have never seen any evidence for the official story...

This thread is a perfect example...lots of semantics and rhetoric but no hard evidence for any claims.

The difference between me and you is I admit I don't know what happened.

All I know that there are no videos that show a plane and that none of the photos look like any other photos of plane crashes...

reply to post by Jezus

The difference between me and you is I admit I don't know what happened.

All I know that there are no videos that show a plane and that none of the photos look like any other photos of plane crashes...

That basically says it all... I couldn't agree more. But then we'll just get the argument that just because we didn't see it doesn't mean it didnt happen. But to assume all the eyewitness statements to be true would paint a different picture then what officially happened.

[edit on 9/29/2009 by TheAntiHero420]

reply to post by Jezus

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by Jezus
It doesn´t matter HOW MUCH evidence, how many eyewitness accounts, how much science you throw at [Pteridine, Weedwhacker and Mmiichael].

They will never retract, they will never accept they are wrong.
They keep bringing back this same “investigations” that only prove how "little" they have investigated, and they will keep on bringing it up under different titles. But it will be the same recycled story of the [Official Story] and Pentagon, over and over again. We shall see.

As you seem to know things others don't, why don't you tell us exactly what happened at the Pentagon on the morning of September 11. 2001.

On September 11th an explosion occurred outside the pentagon...

The media reported that a plane had hit he pentagon but the coverage didn't include anything that looked like a plane...

The government never released any videos that show a plane hitting the pentagon...

I'm not exactly sure what happened and I'm not claiming anything happened but I have never seen any evidence for the official story...

This thread is a perfect example...lots of semantics and rhetoric but no hard evidence for any claims.

The difference between me and you is I admit I don't know what happened.

All I know that there are no videos that show a plane and that none of the photos look like any other photos of plane crashes...

I agree that the official story concerning the pentagon attack has no hard evidence that I know of. I personally believe there is a fair amount of evidence that the plane couldn't have crashed into the building and was working on persuading the OSers in this thread, until I was derailed.. by my own side. Will try to get back to bringing up the evidence for this again soon though.

Originally posted by Jezus
I'm not exactly sure what happened and I'm not claiming anything happened but I have never seen any evidence for the official story...

This thread is a perfect example...lots of semantics and rhetoric but no hard evidence for any claims.

The difference between me and you is I admit I don't know what happened.

All I know that there are no videos that show a plane and that none of the photos look like any other photos of plane crashes...

Unlike in New York, there weren't thousands around to record the Pentagon crash and immediate aftermath. As the US rightfully does not want to supply potential enemies with their security vulnerabilities or clues on 'how to get it right next time' strategic documentation is not released to the public.

But it is without any question Flight 77 took off at 8:20 with passengers and crashed into the Pentagon at 9:37. A warehouse of evidence, recordings, testimony - largely from the general public - all demonstrate that clearly and unambiguously.

Nothing beyond speculation and attempts at manipulating anecdotal information to indicate otherwise have emerged in 8 years.


Mike


[edit on 29-9-2009 by mmiichael]