Independent Investigation Into Pentagon Attack Yields Alarming Information

reply to post by mmiichael


Mike, these pictures are old news.

Yes it looks like the man is sitting.

He was identified as a pentagon employee.

Sorry.

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by Lillydale

 

You said "there were no remains in this crash."

Prove it.

Sure thing, you just tell me what would be acceptable proof that something was NOT there.

You just let me know what you need to see in order to consider it proof that something did NOT happen.

Originally posted by pteridine
When Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped into their seats. The stench of charred flesh overwhelmed him....

and then Williams took the bodies home as souvenirs thus explaining why these bodies were never mentioned in the coroner's report.

This is the 5th time I have had to see this statement as some kind of proof. Fine, he saw bodies strapped into seats. Why are they not mentioned in any of the official documentation from the crash scene that would pertain to bodies?

Some information for Truth Lovers which they will desperately pick over then dismiss with some lame excuse.

frustratingfraud.blogspot.com...

"Okay, well, then if it wasn't a plane that hit the Pentagon, then what happened to the plane and the people on it?" This is at root a good retort but also of course the most over-used and one I'm not going to bother with. In fact, it's beginning to seem that we have the answer anyway. There are many ways to disappear planes and passengers, but the simplest explanation for the missing status of Flight 77 and its passengers, that for which Occam’s razor would lobby, is that they were simply on board the plane when it crashed as reported, killing two birds with one stone as it were and keeping the evidence consistent.

The WTC is one thing, but if no bodies turned up in the wreckage at the Pentagon’s relatively deserted Navy wing, that would look mighty suspicious. In fact, we’ve been told all the bodies were recovered and identified as Barb Olson, Captain Burlingame and the others, and Fintan Dunne's guess that this was their most convincing crime scene seems well-founded. But verification remains elusive, and the critics maintain since the bodies could not have been fit inside a cruise missile, the officials are lying.

At least this had been the situation until the Moussaoui case closed in May 2006. In an effort to clinch the death penalty, the government’s team had showed the jury new photos that seem to have answered the question Von Kleist couldn’t, a hint of the coming “bam!” The Washington Post reported on April 12 “just before the lunch break, they also showed the jury pictures of death - the scorched partial remains of Pentagon victims and a blackened body atop a blue body bag.” A lunch spent unsettled and queasy from the viewing had to help the hungry jurors move closer to that guilty verdict over the afternoon as they listened to the cockpit voice recorder from Flight 93, another first, and the voices of other victims just before they too were burnt.

All this seems unrealted to Moussaoui's guilt and it seems the Moroccan's involvement was secondary, an opportunity to make an entirely different case to a much larger jury. Indeed, after the trial was finished with a guilty verdict on May 3 and Moussaoui’s sentencing to six life terms the following day, the government made an unusual move. All pieces of evidence admitted during the trial were released to the public, the US District Court, East Virginia District announced, “with the exception of seven that are classified or otherwise remain under seal.” Including both prosecution and defense exhibits, these 1,202 pieces were posted online on July 31. The court’s statement noted that “this is the first criminal case for which a federal court has provided access to all exhibits online,” or at least all but seven.

Like the evidence itself, the full reasoning behind this unprecedented decision to release it to everyone remains unclear. The mass release included mug shots of terrorists both at large and in custody, copies of fax transmissions and photos of thick binders. There were new views of the devastation at the Pentagon – the entry hole, the “punch-out hole” on the A-E drive, interior shots, and a new shot of what appears to be the turbine from a jet engine.

Most striking, of course, were the four grisly photographs showing charred human corpses, most in the seated position. Skeptics have wondered if the corpses were of workers from the Pentagon, but if I were an office worker hearing explosions, I’d stand instantly, alert to act as soon as I figured out what was happening where. I’d only die resigned and sitting if I was on a plane and already knew I was toast and had no choice. Therefore my guess is we have a few of our passengers from Flight 77 – one appears small enough in fact to be little Bernard Brown. Rest all their souls, and it seems near time to finally put to rest the no plane theory.

So far discussion on these new photos seems curiously muted inside the movement. Screw Loose Change posted the day after the release, August 1, regarding “the new evidence released from the Moussaoui trial.” Of the evidence Site admin James had seen, “one struck me the most, in a quite horrific way.” This was not one of the photos of bodies, but an animation “listing all the locations in the Pentagon that the bodies, or rather the body parts of all the victims were found. If you click on each marker on the map, it brings up the name and picture of the victim. I challenge any 9/11 denier to click through all these markers, and then get back to me on how all of this is fake.”

Fintan Dunne noted on August 10 the Pentagon’s apparent victory in this set-up evidence war: “They got the lot. They got plane bits and they got all the bodies. They got photos. They got forensics. They have it sewn up. What? But weren't they all substitute planes, remotely controlled? Plane Bits! AND bodies! Yep. Just a regular plane crash. They flew the plane in by wire. It had passengers. It hit the Pentagon. It blew up.”

Lots of handwaving from mmiichael but still no proof that there were passenger bodies found strapped to airline seats...

Notice the noise that he's generating to try and deflect his claim?

Originally posted by tezzajw
Lots of handwaving from mmiichael but still no proof that there were passenger bodies found strapped to airline seats...

Notice the noise that he's generating to try and deflect his claim?

There have been murder convictions based on strands of hair. There's no room for doubt in this mass murder. There's hard evidence from numerous reliable sources showing Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon with passengers on board.

You haven't provided a single thing to corroborate circulating lunatic fringe fantasies of missiles or whatever.

And you never will.


M

reply to post by mmiichael

You haven't provided a single thing to corroborate

I'd say 13 witnesses placing the aircraft NoC, and the FDR data is pretty
much unanimous with respect to corrobaration.

Hey GL's, notice the ever growing list of professionals getting on board,
and the new evidence coming forth.

I think P4T grabbed about 20 new pilots; AE911 is at 887certified
architects, and 4776 supporters many of which are engineers, Ph.D, etc.

www.ae911truth.org...

Charlie is hitting the airwaves; Aidan is digging up some very suspicious stuff;
the last Ground Zero meet was quite impressive; Jones' paper has been
confirmed twice over by independent scientists.

Still you close one eye...

Originally posted by turbofan

I'd say 13 witnesses placing the aircraft NoC, and the FDR data is pretty
much unanimous with respect to corrobaration.

Hey GL's, notice the ever growing list of professionals getting on board,
and the new evidence coming forth.

I think P4T grabbed about 20 new pilots; AE911 is at 887certified
architects, and 4776 supporters many of which are engineers, Ph.D, etc.

www.ae911truth.org...

Charlie is hitting the airwaves; Aidan is digging up some very suspicious stuff;
the last Ground Zero meet was quite impressive; Jones' paper has been
confirmed twice over by independent scientists.

Don't get me started on professionals. Professional Truther circuit conventioneer Gage couldn't even dig up 1000 engineers to join his Boys Blub though he promised to have that many a year ago. Every civil and structural engineer worldwide knows about 9/11. Hundreds of thousands of them. Gage has to go to conventions and sweet talk a few nutbars and old geezers into signing his seemingly benign request for a new investigation.
Most do it out of pity for him.

Bottom line, 99% of related field professionals think the Truther thing is a hoax. Loads of innuendo, speculation and minor inconsistencies in the voluminous record. But no solid proof.

The whole Truther movement is idssassembling as young educated professionals drop out seeing what it really is. A fringe cult filled with disaffected personalities seeking some kind of self-affirmation in knowing "Hidden Truths." A pop movement for rebellious students and delayed adolescents.

The Jones-Harrit papers are a joke. Hokery pseudoscience for the gullible. Another couple whores getting some attention capitalizing on a captive Truther niche market.

In 8 years no one has produced a coherent scenario backed up by supporting hard evidence of the many wild claims put forth.

Meanwhile serious independent journalist and writers have managed to piece most of the back story together. And it's riveting. But none have found a trace of evidence confirming any of the laughable Truther claims.


Mike

reply to post by mmiichael




Hey Mike, where is your group of 800+ professionals?

Originally posted by turbofan
reply to post by mmiichael

 

Hey Mike, where is your group of 800+ professionals?

They're called professional associations. They have regional meetings, journals, conventions, the works.

Most professional have self-respect. They don't feel compelled to do the Internet Truther website circuit, Youtube, sell videos and T-shirts, etc. They don't feel compelled to promote the belief America was attacked. They don't charge fees for speaking engagements at cheap hotels. Anyone reading through the masses of available information and data can put it together themselves.

There are many causes that professionals voluntarily subscribe to, like Doctors without Borders, and various legal associations trying to change legislation.

When you have to struggle to get 1% of a field onside, higher profile members won't acknowledge you, and you can only muster a few whack jobs, it's an flashing indicator.

M







[edit on 28-9-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by mmiichael
Professional Truther circuit conventioneer...Boys Blub...sweet talk a few nutbars and old geezers...Most do it out of pity for him....99% of related field professionals think the Truther thing is a hoax...Truther movement...fringe cult filled with disaffected personalities seeking some kind of self-affirmation in knowing "Hidden Truths." A pop movement for rebellious students and delayed adolescents...Hokery pseudoscience for the gullible...couple whores getting some attention ...laughable Truther claims.

And that my friends is the ONLY tactic left to be employed by the defenders of the official story, attack the source. This one in particular though, is the angry and desperate rhetoric or fit pitching one might expect from a child who has found out that Santa Clause isn't real, or an angry spouse on the receiving end of a divorce. The official story is dead, the grieving proponents of that predisposed sack of lies are now showing the classic signs of their grief, first denial, then anger, then the inevitable dissolution and depression.
Always attacking the source, rather than the information. It reads like an army manual on counter-intelligence, some are relatively good at the tactic, but of all the Debbies on this site lately, you're the intellectual worst of them mmicheal.
You forgot to add that we're all nazis and white supremacists as you implied in at least two other threads. "Couple whores getting some attention"? Jesus H, do you wonder why nobody listens to you here?
Here's you some Hokery pseudoscience and some 12 thousand pages of real actual Hidden truths.



[edit on 28-9-2009 by twitchy]

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by tezzajw
Lots of handwaving from mmiichael but still no proof that there were passenger bodies found strapped to airline seats...

Notice the noise that he's generating to try and deflect his claim?

There have been murder convictions based on strands of hair.

Not hair that was sitting in a fire. What are you even talking about? How does that even help your case? Saying that there have been cases with good evidence somehow means that this case has good evidence too, even if no one has ever seen it or knows about it? You are hardly even trying.

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by Lillydale

 

You said "there were no remains in this crash."

Prove it.

Sure thing, you just tell me what would be acceptable proof that something was NOT there.

You just let me know what you need to see in order to consider it proof that something did NOT happen.

Evidence that the remains were planted or evidence that the forensic labs were part of a plot.
You have also still not shown how you know that the fire would have destroyed all DNA evidence.

[edit on 9/28/2009 by pteridine]

With his credibility in tatters, pteridine thinks that he can make demands from someone else?

Originally posted by pteridine
You have also still not shown how you know that the fire would have destroyed all DNA evidence.

Remember, casual readers to the thread, that pteridine has failed to substantiate his claim that the light pole hit the taxi and he has failed to substantiate his claim that I am a CIT/P4T drone.

reply to post by tezzajw

Tezzalini, try to contribute to the discussion. Cheerleading and trolling are not helpful. Lillydale should meet her/his own standards.

Originally posted by pteridine
Tezzalini, try to contribute to the discussion. Cheerleading and trolling are not helpful. Lillydale should meet her/his own standards.

Casual readers to the thread will note that a long time ago, in another thread, pteridine resorted to calling me 'tezzalini' as a derogatory form of insulting me. I could find the thread, after some searching and if my memory serves me well, I recall a Moderator stepping in to alert members not to use name-calling.

I warned pteridine back then not to use obvious name-calling. Now, with his credibility in tatters, it seems that he needs to resort to the name-calling again. Another deflect and dodge kind of argument, which is typical of some debunkers.

pteridine, it is pertinent to the discussion that you made two claims:
1 - The light pole hit the taxi.
2 - I am a CIT/P4T drone.

You have not proven either claim and you have not withdrawn either claim. Further progress by you in this thread is pointless, when you're clearly spinning disinfo and now using name-calling to try and save yourself.

posted by pteridine
Tezzalini, try to contribute to the discussion. Cheerleading and trolling are not helpful. Lillydale should meet her/his own standards.

posted by tezzajw

Casual readers to the thread will note that a long time ago, in another thread, pteridine resorted to calling me 'tezzalini' as a derogatory form of insulting me. I could find the thread, after some searching and if my memory serves me well, I recall a Moderator stepping in to alert members not to use name-calling.

I warned pteridine back then not to use obvious name-calling. Now, with his credibility in tatters, it seems that he needs to resort to the name-calling again. Another deflect and dodge kind of argument, which is typical of some debunkers.

It seems that our dancing side-stepping pteridine is not-so-subtlely trying to equate tezzajw with Mussolini and insinuating that tezzajw is a Fascist, which will not convince anyone that the pteridine spinning method is any more useful as evidence of the truthfulness and legitimacy of the rapidly self-destructing 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY fairy tale.

reply to post by burntheships


burntheships, if you wish to waste your time on the "A-3" angle, by all means do so.

MAYBE you will study it well enough to finally put it to bed.

First, the backstory: A guy named "Tom Flocco" first floated this garbage story on his website. Some investigatins later, after some search into him, finds that he has a history of disinfo. Since I've never met him personally, I can only call him a crackpot in the loosest of senses.

Here...the actual A-3 in a snippet:

The Douglas A-3 Skywarrior was a strategic bomber built for the United States Navy and among the longest serving carrier-based jet aircraft. It entered service in the mid-1950s and was retired in 1991. For many years after its introduction, it was also the heaviest aircraft ever flown from an aircraft carrier, earning it the unofficial nickname "The Whale".

en.wikipedia.org...

You can read all about it there...pictures too.

I will provide two to get you started:

www.airliners.net...

And, this one:


www.airliners.net...

The above photo was taken in 2008.

The entire "theory" developed because the Raytheon Corporation has a few of the old obsolete jets flying, as testbeds for various avionics projects...Raytheon is, of course, a large military contractor.

The co-incidence of several Raytheon executives being onboard American 77 has fueled this particular "conspiracy theory".

Of course, the fact that Raytheon has operations in Los Angeles, and there are NOT any non-stop flights from National Airport to LA...so when the execs go to Washington for meetings with military brass, they might choose to fly from Dulles...also, there are a lot of aviation companies with offices in the Dulles Corridor.....

SO...the tragic co-incidence of the Raytheon execs on AA 77 turns into this outlandish story that they were killed because they knew about a "modified" A-3 (!!!???) used be remote control to attack the Pentagon.

Of course, this story was "leaked" by certain "others" who "knew" about it...yet they have never been "killed"...?????

And, since NOTHING in the wreckage resembles in any way a part from an A-3....well.

Still...to imagine a 50-year-old airframe magically being modified to fly "remotely"....begs belief.

ESPECIALLY since there are plenty of old B757s in boneyards that could have been claimed as "remote controlled"!!! Although the notion of this "remote control" business is nonsense (airplanes and missiles are designed FROM THE START for autonomous or remote control ability) --- even IF they have retro-fit technology.....dontcha think maybe they'd use a real B757???

Why risk the discovery of parts that don't match a Boeing? OR, photos by the public?? OR eyewitensses who could tell the difference??????



[edit on 28 September 2009 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by tezzajw


I have provided evidence that satisfies me. If it does not satisfy you, that is your problem. Try to contribute to the discussion instead of acting as a self-appointed thread policeman with overly sensitive feelings.
Do you have enough confidence in your knowledge to stop trolling and state your position on the Pentagon strike? The "waiting for all the evidence" excuse is passe, Tezza. Step up and be part of the discussion. You have the skills and argumentative ability to hold your own.

Originally posted by pteridine
I have provided evidence that satisfies me. If it does not satisfy you, that is your problem.

Casual readers to the thread - we now witness the new 'standard of evidence' from an official government story believer... as long as it satisfies him, then it's ok.

pteridine has not proven that the light pole hit the taxi.

pteridine has not proven that I am a CIT/P4T drone.

Originally posted by pteridine
Try to contribute to the discussion instead of acting as a self-appointed thread policeman with overly sensitive feelings.

You must have missed my contributions to the discussions. I showed you the link to the interview that CIT did with McGraw. I even made a basic transcription of the relevant time section for you to read. You must remember how you tried to use McGraw as a witness to the light pole hitting the taxi - yet McGraw himself did not claim this.

Why would you falsely presume that I have overly sensitive feelings, pteridine? Your name-calling was an obvious put-down and you've been called out on it in the past. With your credibility in tatters, you must be really rattled to fall back to your name-calling tactics.