How would one convince a bunch of career military people to blow up the Pentagon?

You couldn't.

Congress? Treasury? IRS? Sure, that would be easy.

Clearly something "stinks" about the Pentagon story and if something "stinks" there, then by extension, the rest of 911 smells as well; it's only a matter of looking for it.

With many years of experience flying Heavy Metal on International routes I knew immediately on 911 morning that a Jetliner couldn't possibly have crashed at the Pentagon, for all the obvious reasons.

However, looking downward on the scene, I was struck by the burn pattern of several 90 degree turns along structural lines that appear "weird" at best, given fire-door technology, but could also indicate explosives planted which fizzled instead of exploded.

In which case, the damage would have appeared more significant and been more in line with the governments story of a Jetliner crash, disintegrating airplane, etc etc., and surmise that the idiot cover story just went out anyway.

I notice that several responders here feel the growing "mass" of the lies and the growing momentum of the 911 movement, and I would hope this to be the case: except that I routinely continue to speak to people in the US who still do not yet have a clue.

And I'll take a moment here to recommend 'the Arrivals' video series (all 52 parts) offered on this site as a really significant piece of work intensely valuable to anyone interested in awakening and consciousness.

And also, that video goes far to explain the contempt that TPTB have for humanity, as well as, the reason they expect to get away with it, and why they have gotten away with it so far.

Originally posted by Willbert

Originally posted by Akkadian
I have no link and I love ATS but my father was there that day, in south parking, saw the plane fly over the sheraton I believe and hit the building. I dont know about other motives being behind it but I know for a fact that a plain hit the pentagon......end of story

[edit on 30-8-2009 by Akkadian]

A plane. Perhaps he did see something fly into the building.. but was it a 77?

I guess he suppressed his emotions not to flinch or get an urge to run. He saw this huge plane dive slowly into the building.

Can you link me where your dad's testimony is in regards to where he viewed the plane and how long he viewed it for? Other than stating the obvious that something or "a" plane hit the pentagon. Having your father's testimony may shine additional light.

Your father may give you comfort and peace due to your history with him. But in the real world hard facts and evidence is required. It may be closed for you but not for others.

If you didn't ask specifics and only went with a vague explanation.. then you closed yourself off to the world around you. Your loss..

Thanks in advance.

[edit on 30-8-2009 by Willbert]

I understand your stance based on the lack of evidence I have provided but I was simply stating my opinion and my feelings towards a topic. I actually thought I saw a post saying they believe a missle hit the building??? Rediculous. As for the reaction of my father, he was completely frozen for as the plane was crossing over columbia pike and tried to grab his cell to call his J2 staff.... They didn't even feel the impact on the river side. I don't know the type of plane he saw or if there were alterrior (sp) motives behind these attacks... all I know is that a plane hit the pentagon.... I am sure the government is hiding something... they always are....

[edit on 30-8-2009 by Akkadian]

[edit on 30-8-2009 by Akkadian]

"Alarming new evidence"?

Why do some threads have sensationalist, misleading titles? It reminds me of mainstream media tactics. There is nothing new, nor alarming about this, it's basically just CIT stuff.

The site itself is a Marxist site, which unsurprisingly, will be eager to snap up conspiracy related things and promote them. Thus, its not really anymore impressive than something like this being reported on Rense or elsewhere.

And as always, I see nothing proving a flyover, or any no-plane based theory. Until I see a rational explanation for the bodies and debris discovered in the Pentagon, or bring more than a handful of cherry picked witnesses reporting years after the fact, or produce many witnesses who actually watched a plane flyover, or produce proof that hundreds, thousands of witnesses lied about what they saw, and prove that all the rescue and recovery people really didn't see what they saw, then I shall continue to hold the opinion, based on my own examination of what has been presented.

Which is, that flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon and killed a bunch of people.

well i guess the proper solution for the american people is to demand that all videos and related documentation on that day be released for inspection. Beyond that, we have further speculation as to what happened, and questionable circumstantial evidence.

There is no smoking gun YET, for any of the independent investigations to claim victory.

I agree the flight path was extraordinary even for a very skilled pilot in a fighter jet, but not in a 757 or any commercial plane. It seems very unlikely that the plane would strike at such a low point on the pentagon, yet leave the yard area unscathed.

The other question is why this flight path was taken, and a simple drop out the sky into the pentagon was not performed. It makes no sense that you wold consume valuable time during a strike to circle and make a difficult strike, when you can simply dive (kamikaze) the plane in for maximum impact.

Either way, there is little time, and probably too little time left to bring this to fruition. Nature will takes it course. The PTB have had this planned for years, if not decades down to the nitty gritty detail. The swine flu pandemic will take hold by January/Fed 2010 at the same time that the financial systems collapses. The third wave down in the stock markets (the most ugly) will begin at this time. There will be much chaos, confusion and difficulty with just surviving. The PTB know this and that is why they could care less whether this information gets out to the public. The PTB know we have very little time, and come early 2010, the last thing on our mind will be defending some conspiracy theory.

So, at this point, I believe all these independent investigations (thermate, pentagon, etc) are just wasting people's time. I believe in seeking the truth, but there is no infrastructure for us to pursue the truth and accountability. The infrastructure has been disabled if you haven't notice yet.

They are marching us into the sea...so to speak. They have left no stone unturned. However, over time, I do feel good will prevail. But it will not be anytime soon. And many will suffer.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong but I remember the excuse for not releasing the 80+!!!! tapes was "We do not want to give the terrorists more information."

The original reason was "ongoing trial" and the current reason is "ongoing law enforcement".

2 have been released and 83 remain. Most of the 85 were not confiscated from the pentagon area.

[edit on 30-8-2009 by jprophet420]

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Until I see a rational explanation for the bodies and debris discovered in the Pentagon...

Ironically I'm waiting for a rational explanation for the lack of debris...and video evidence...

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
thousands of witnesses lied about what they saw

Thousands?

That's a sensational claim...

Just saw a commercial that had the same pic of the plane and the Pentagon for a special on Nat Geo tomorrow night.

I had not previously considered posting this as I never thought it was worthy of a thread of its' own. I also don't have hard evidence only hearsay from a friend. A well connected and trusted friend but just that.

A number of the posts in this thread as well as other related threads question why and how career military personnel could be convinced to carry out various scenarios. Also how can credible civilian witnesses be silenced? I believe it's simply the weight of opinion against such scenarios an example of either mass brainwashing or mass wishful thinking. Whatever you call it, the majority of people don't want to believe their government and military carry out acts against the people and the country. Those that are wrapped up in such acts are likely convinced it's for the greater good of the people and the country. A "Borne" type of attitude if you will. Even if these people have second thoughts they are in too deep by that time. Yes, I can imagine hundreds and thousands involved. We hear of those spilling the beans later right here on ATS. Spilling the beans and either being made to look nuts, disgruntled or simply taken out.

The story I want to relate is this. My friend, a now former NYC policeman. He was often assigned to protect visiting dignitaries including presidents. After the 911 disaster he was assigned to guard the site. The information he became privy to while working that detail forced him later to leave the force. To cut to the chase, he found out that there were security tapes stored off site of the towers. Cameras and tapes were functioning during the rescue attempts as responders flowed into the buildings and the various offices and floors. What a number of these tapes revealed was that some of the responders were looting evacuated offices and stores in the towers prior to them collapsing. As you can imagine some of these responders also survived. Some were decorated and celebrated for their "valor". Some posthumously.

This story, if true, is rather insignificant in the big scheme of that day. The point was that if this information were released to the public, all trust in the police, firemen and EMS personnel for the entire city would be lost. And so those who had learned of or saw the taped evidence were and are hesitant to divulge what they know. They fear the panic of a public that does not trust those assigned to protect them and they fear personal reprisals from the PTB.

My friend resigned from the force as he could not sleep or function normally dealing with this knowledge. Those in the know were convinced, brow-beaten, threatened if you will, to never divulge this little secret. Families, careers and reputations were on the line. Not quite a military secret but I think a good parallel. If true, I think this is a small example of how such a controversial scenario could be hushed up.

I for one could imagine people (responders) tempted by what they thought were easy pickings. No, they were not carrying computers out of offices. We're talking grabbing a purse left behind in the rush to evacuate, things of that nature. They never suspected the buildings would collapse on them, they never suspected they were being taped. Seemingly small crimes in themselves but the loss of confidence in those in uniform was deemed catastrophic for a city in turmoil as NYC was at the time by the PTB.

Originally posted by Jezus

Ironically I'm waiting for a rational explanation for the lack of debris...and video evidence... [.quote]

Um, there have been rational explainations for the first. For starters, there was no lack of debris, just very large pieces. Whether or not you choose to accept this evidence is up to you.

As for the second, there have been no explainations for the lack of video evidence. While it is extremely questionable and curious why there is no videos of the crash, it does not lend much to the core argument.

Thousands?

That's a sensational claim...

No, it is not a sensational claim. 395 had heavy traffic, and the surrounding roads were basically packed with traffic at a standstill. The areas around the Pentagon also had thousands of people working and going on about their daily business.

So yes, there would be thousands of people around the Pentagon with a clear view to see it happen. The area is a very high traffic and busy place, and had thousands of witnesses.

Reporters only collected a relative handful of accounts, there are plenty of people who were probably never interviewed, or wanted to be interviewed.

No one yet has said they saw a missile strike, or that they saw the plane fly away, out of thousands.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Originally posted by vehemes terra eternus

Skadi, what about what HASN'T been presented??????????

80+ security tapes have been confiscated. One was taken from a gas station by the FBI a few minutes after the attack.
Why would these tapes NOT be released

What about it?

What is more interesting to me is the lack of private and media camera footage. After all, D.C. is a major tourist and political, diplomatic, and busines destination. But the private CCTV camera videos, who knows why they aren't being released. But to me, that is not an important issue.

Just a quick note to say that it is interesting that there is a lack of private and media camera footage and the reason for that lack of is The Pentagon took all of it away...aka confiscated...

But yet you say "what about it?"

[edit on 30-8-2009 by burntheships]

You folks mean that you really don't see it?



Really?

Okey-dokey. Get out your protractors, reacquaint yourself with the word "objective", and get to work.

Irregardless of what dubious evidence says a plane could not get to this position, obviously one did. Nothing else fits. If you think something does, prove it WITH THIS PICTURE.

I have as much responsibility to show you what is going on as anyone has a responsibility to explain to certain people around here about the "holographic plane" theory, here in the age of keyboards & Google.

Carry on....Have fun!!

Maybe I'm missing something, but to what end would the government orchestrate such an elaborate hoax?

I know there's been mention of a few trillion dollars missing, and that's no small sum, but there's been instances of missing funds from this department/agency or that department/agency since the formation of the Continental Congress, and there were no elaborate schemes (at least not on the level of blowing a hole in the Pentagon) to cover it up or eliminate incriminating evidence. Another argument brings up the need to build support for an invasion of the lands of those responsible, but I think that the destruction of the WTC towers was enough to quickly gain support, and if not, why didn't they put together a plan to slam a learjet into the White House (since GW was out of town anyway), or steer the airliner into the Capitol. Hitting either of those targets would've resulted in an instant carte blanche by the American people to hit any country anytime with any amount of force.

I guess I'm just not convinced. The physics of the evidence does intrigue me, but extraordinary claims really do require extraodinary proof, and call me niave, but to suggest that the Pentagon was hit by a missile, and the passengers of that plane were whisked off to never-never land (killed?), and all of the evidence is now locked up, and a lot (I would think it took a number of people to put this all together and help in covering it all up) of people were somehow forced to keep the secret...that's an extraordinary claim.

Originally posted by mbkennel

How would one convince a bunch of career military people to blow up the Pentagon?

You couldn't.

Congress? Treasury? IRS? Sure, that would be easy.

Easily. Offer them way more money and complete legal immunity to murder, rape, and steal, give them a nice Blackwater uniform and voila!