Weapons for Survival Part 1

This is a pretty broad thread in that each topic in the opening post deserves it's own discussion. But, I think we can all agree that being prepared and using the tools in your hopefully prepared tool box is what it all boils down too.

One thing I'd like to bring up is "Training". I've taken a few courses one being a Personal Protection course at our local Sportsman's Assoc. for my carry permit. I've also taken a Sub-Machine gun course at Frontsight outside of Vegas. Awesome course taught by ex-military gun range instructors. Too bad they had to ruin it with the Property Sales scheme that went along with it. Two to the body, pause Pop, one to the head.
Here's a picture of me there. Honest Injun...

www.frontsight.com...


They offered Shotgun, Long rifle, Glock courses, etc. I think they have a 360 degree firing range now with pop up targets.


Training Good

reply to post by semperfortis


Very interesting!

First I would like to clarify the "type" of survival situation.

For example- "post apocolyptic"?

Or out in the woods with no sign of civilzation for hundreds of miles around?

I believe each situation would warrant a different use given the circumstances.

In an apocolyptic type of situation I think two factors would be most important.

1. concealment
2. pace of fire

Therefore some type of smaller automatic weapon would be the most advantageous, in my opinion... Like an oozy of sorts, maybe... Easily accessible (at your waste line) and able to spread as many rounds as possible eliminating multiple threats in a very short amont of time...

While in a survival mode, for hunting purposes or protection purposes, I would think the main factor would be caliber and getting the job done with one shot...

But I am not even a novice when it comes to knowledge about guns. Just testing the waters. I am very interested for protection reasons however...

Good thread...

reply to post by dooper


Now you tell me? Fortunately, it hit too lightly to cause real damage, just a nasty scrape, and a bruise larger than my hand would cover on my leg...got off really lucky.

Lesson learned the way I learn most of my lessons...the hard, and painful, way...

reply to post by readerone


sounds like some professional info there... Cant think that kind of training comes cheap...

military? swat? spec ops?

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that whatever weapon(s) you have, you need to be able to use them well, and you need ammunition that you can carry. It's lovely to have a .50 caliber, but you can't carry much, and the chances are good that you'll never need that much fire power.

I'm assuming that you'd be using your weapons for both self defense and for hunting food. I am skeptical about carrying more than one weapon at a time - or at least, not more than one rifle. It's certainly possible, but I just can't see walking around with a low- to medium-caliber rifle for game, as well as, say, an AK-47. So, for my use, I'd probably go with a relatively small-caliber rifle for hunting. I'm assuming most of the game will be relatively small, so I don't want to vaporize it.

If I ran into bad guys, I'd hope to be able to discourage or neutralize them with accurate shooting, rather than trying to go full-automatic and hose them all down. Aside from that being ineffective, I'm thinking I'd need to be as sparing as possible with ammo. No telling how long I'll need to preserve it, so the less I waste the better.

Aside from that, I've only got experience with rifles and shotguns. I've never fired an automatic, never practiced. I don't think I'd want to try to learn as I go.

I could see carrying a handgun as well, but it doesn't seem that it would be all that useful. I would hope that I wouldn't let a threat get so close to me that a handgun would be effective. It seems to me that a handgun would be like a last resort, if you've used all your ammo and someone gets in close to you. But in that case, they'd probably already have taken you out from a distance.

Another consideration is that right now I live in Chicago, where you can't own a handgun without a special permit. I could buy rifles and shotguns, but no handguns. So, at least until I move out of this area, I'm limited in what I can legally buy. I want to stay as legal as possible, simply because prison won't be a good place to be, when TSHTF. Come to think of it, there won't be very many good places to be, when TSHTF...

For a rifle a M1 Garand that has been highly modified.
converted from 30-06 to .308.
The top of the stock has been removed in front of the action and a scope mount is being built by me in my machine shop.
This will take a a long eye relief scope for ranges up to 500 feet and still allow the use of the Garand iron sights.

I have also added a M1 Garand adjustable gas system so i can use any loads and not be limited to 165 gr bullets. i will be able to use any 308 hunting or military loads without bending the feed rod.

I also have changed the front site to a M1 aperture front site.
I used the M1 in Vietnam on the river boat i was on because the M16 would not penetrate the jungle or reach the shore with any power from the middle of the river we operated on.(400 to 500 feet.)
I did not feel to bad because the VC AKs had the same problems with power and range as our M16s



For a pistol i have a GI 1911 .45 that i have rebuilt and added a 2 inch longer barrel and ported.
It looks strange with the longer barrel but with the porting on the barrel it shoots sweet.
I shoot a light 165.gr hp and with the longer barrel i get close to 1500 fps
this lets the hollow points expand to there max for good dropping power.
but the gun will still shoot 230 gr military ball with out any problems.
porting was easy with the longer barrel i just punched 7 holes with a 1/16 inch end mill on my milling machine, 3 down the center-line and two 20 degrees to each side of center-line.
Even with 230 gr mil ball the recoil is negligible.
I also changed the firing pin stop to a lower recoil design.
forum.m1911.org...
i383.photobucket.com...

This site is awesome. Keep the info coming. Some is over my head, but it lets me know what I need to learn.

I believe just about every scenario I can imagine has been touched on here.

It's time to limber up my rusty skills with some practice.

Originally posted by Paroxysm
I picked myself up one of these Kel-Tec SU-16C's, for close to half the price of a new AR-15:

I would be interested to know your thoughts once you've taken it
out to the range. It looks like they made some serious upgrades
in the C model and it might even be in my price range. I love the
idea that you can still shoot it with the stock folded up.

I don't carry an axe, bowie or machete for several reasons:
weight - they're all relatively heavy
size - anything that big will interfere with movement
noise - The sound of chopping woods travels for miles. A small
folding saw is very quiet and will do the same job except for
fighting of course. You can split wood with any good fixed
blade knife and a wooden baton or a rock if you dont mind
scraping up the back of your blade.

One final thing Semper, perhaps you could write a thread on
body armor, I don't think that's been covered on ATS. I'm
really digging this thread it's one of my favorite subjects.

This is what I carry instead of a machete.

Jerry Hossom Forester

Originally posted by readerone
reply to post by sanchoearlyjones

 

very kool...

what I was discribing is a bipolar stepper motor , mechanical relay logic . but rather than running the power relays of the stepper motors....

wire it to the primary feild of two HV coils .... that are totaly unsheilded .
with a car battery as its power , you have 5-6 hours of jamming

the 4 stage EMF would wreak havoc on fm and am radio signals that are local . any pulse width modulated signals would totaly fry ... and any drone in the air above would suddenly be unable to hear any command signal going to it .

very much like a ungrounded , unsheilded , blue spark ... TIG , MIG , or welder ...

its unlikely it would get a homming guilded missle fired at it...
as any CB radio or unsheilded blender might just as easily be targeted just after it goes active .

mainly what I discribed was a very loud radio interferance device...

Right. I suppose you are aware that the U.S. has technology specifically designed to locate UNSHIELDED IGNITION SYSTEMS and aim guns at them. This technology comes from the Vietnam war. It was mounted on AC130 aircraft and used for detecting NVA trucks on the Ho Chi Minh trail and targeting them. Just wondering if this is such a great idea.

I'm not sure if this is the right area to post this question but I am interested in a car holster for a S&W 38 Special. I am more interested in a holster that can be removed. Any ideas?
Thanks

reply to post by labouton


You will have to be more specific.

What do you mean by a "Car Holster"?

Any holster I have ever owned or seen will fit in a car...

Semper

i used to just clip my belt clip holster under my seat but that was dumb.
i would do what my pal the auto restorer did - press 2 buttons on his cd player and out pops a hidden compartment under his ashtray with his .380 sig ready to go.

My apology, I know what I'm thinking My thoughts are of a bracket that can be mounted under dash, in front of the seat, on the console, etc. The holster would then be slid into the bracket while traveling but can then be removed when you leave the vehicle.
Thanks

You really have to asses the situation first.
I like to plan for the worst, and hope for the best. Therefore, a 22lr for small game and ability to carry many hundreds of rounds in a bug out is essential.
Both the rifles and ammo are inexpensive, just pick a semi-auto model that fits your preference as to weight and accuracy.
For larger game and protection, a 7.62 of your choice would be my recommendation. First, they are inexpensive---you can pick up a used Saiga for a hundred bucks, second, the ammo is worldwide and used by many militaries.
Stockpiles are everywhere, and even if the worst case happens, someone will have the ammo for trade.
Something that might get pricey for your hunting rounds---if any are available.
Same with a handgun---the 45 acp used to be everywhere, but the 9mm has overtaken it in terms of ammo availability.

For a test, try to find your particular ammo this week in a store.
Now imagine trying to find it when there are no stores.
With the fear and stockpiling, many calibers are on back order---but the 9mm and 7.62 are usually available, even if at 5 times the price of last year, and as they are so popular, many manufacturers of those rounds have expanded production.
If there is a break in the buying of these for a few weeks, there will be a glut on the market.

reply to post by seagull


I confess that the way I learned my lessons were through my mistakes. Some much more painful than others.

To the poster who though an automatic weapon such as an UZI would be ideal, it really isn't.

It shoots a 9mm, and while fairly controllable, a full auto while fun to shoot is mostly good for fire suppression and clearing a room.

Even in combat, though I could use full auto, I used semi-auto when using battle rifles.

Shooting fast is not directly proportional with shooting well.

Give me a Marine with a 1903 over 99.999% of the population with full autos.

The point being - only hits count.

Anything else is just a lot of noise.

[edit on 1-9-2009 by dooper]

Just having a weapon is great.

I prefer or have or wish I had...

ar-15...for self defence

30-06...for hunting larger game

10/22...for smaller game

ak47....for more self defence

.45acp...for a pistol

44 mag...for a back up pistol

With atleast 1000-10,000 rounds for each semi auto and 500-1000 rounds for the single shot or bolt action weapon.

There are others that I would like or may have.
However the internet in no place to brag about your weapons now a days.

So with that being said, I only have rubberbands and coconut shells to repel the nasty bad guys with.

Seriously just have a good weapon and know how to use it, if you have a weapon and it breaks how will you fix it in a SHTF???

Know your weapon(s) and your abilities with it/them.

Spare parts kits and how to detail dissassemble and fix if need be with what ever is available to you.

I really need to get to the store and make a purchase of at least a bb/pellet gun.

Great tread and SEMPER FI/BROTHER.

reply to post by dooper

The point being - only hits count.

Anything else is just a lot of noise.

That is the key. Doesn't matter how big, or small, the bullet. If it misses, it might as well not have been fired...

Only hits count.....Hog Wash.

Your not gonna take out everyone....

What if your moving through THEIR area and you just want to get by and not storm the castle so to speak, because you are just going to your castle in the wilderness.

They could be a source of help later since they are like minded...right?

What happens if you only need to cover your movement from concealment to cover?

You do know the differance right?

reply to post by saltdog

I think you don't know what you're talking about. I can show you my graveyards, they are recorded in both Company and Battalion records, which lists my confirmed.

I've spent many, many days among thousands of enemy troops. I've had them step between my head and my outstretched arms.

My enemy disbanded their highly elite 305th Parachute Brigade, and used these elite troops to hunt us. Three divisions of counter-recon enemy personnel were occupied hunting and trying to interdict us.

We had a 100% casualty rate - that's wounded or killed in our 12 month tour.

We had a low of 100:1 kill ratio, and some months, a 150:1 kill ratio.

So naturally, I'll defer to your extensive expertise, and your insightful military mind.

Forgive me for interrupting our lesson.