Weapons for Survival Part 1

reply to post by readerone


You are pigeon holing and well... Being far too "expert" to ever survive in a SHTF situation.

One can hunt with any handgun, given the situation and all that fluted barrel fancy smancy 3006 is going to do is tear up any small game food you shoot rendering it useless, but even food as large as Deer can be and have been routinely taken with the old reliable .22 rimfire.

I have my old sniper rifle that is a match for any rifle one can buy, think 8K dollars base plus access. in 1995, but it is not a good survival rifle.

Having the fanciest gun wont save you.

reply to post by Asktheanimals

What are your "survival" parameters?

Every REAL possible scenario for me. I don't do Zombies anymore than I do Vampires, Werewolves and Fairy God Mothers.

However each will have their own idea of what to prepare for. What you have read and will read from me, is my own.

Yes, the .22 caliber CAN kill a man with a well-placed shot but it
is not very likely

The .22lr is perhaps the deadliest non military cartridge. Look it up.

The bow is an excellent idea and I will cover that later but not under the firearms category..

reply to post by The Undertaker


The APLP Ammo is military and not what I am covering here. Yet anyway.

Also, if you have knowledge he is restricted from owning a firearm, you are breaking the law selling the gun to him.

reply to post by kozmo


The Shotgun or the .22 and your pistol.. Depending on how long you plan on being in the Situation, 100 rounds wont do it.

reply to post by readerone

riots or civil unrest happen so swiftly , that nothing can be done to prepare .

Just not true.
I have been in more than a few and preparation is what saved my life.

reply to post by praxis


Drones?
Better find a place to hide.

reply to post by seagull


With smart use and training, you have all you need to survive.

reply to post by Asktheanimals

My biggest question would be "who the hell is the enemy?"

Anyone trying to take your life.

Guys, don't confuse survival with armed resistance. I am not going to prepare you for anything like Red Dawn. But if society collapses and you have to make it in the wilderness, you can with what I have outlined above.

Everyone is different so each of you will have different requirements and fav weapons. That is no big deal. The basics apply however.

1. Usability (Can't effectively use it, don't bring it)
2. Portability (Self Explanatory)
3. Reliable and Dependable (Self Explanatory)
4. Enough Ammo for an Extended Stay (Self Explanatory)
5. Practical (If it destroys your meat, it is useless)

With good common sense and good tactics, you can defend your self very well with a Shotgun and even the little .22, but you can't eat a rabbit blown apart by the 30.06...

Common sense people.

Semper

reply to post by praxis


its not that hard , double pole double throw relays have 8 pins,

six at one end and two at the other

the two are for the coils .

when the coil is powered .. you hear a click sound as the contacts close .

one coil wire connects to ground (-) on all the coils

the other 6 pins of each DPDT relay are the switch part of the relay

with a felt pen write '1' , '2' ,'3' ,'4'. and '5' on the relays

1 , 3 , 5 are the SPST relays

they will have 3 pins on one end , 2 pins on the other...
the two will be the coil
one coil wire connects to the ground (-) on all the coils

the other 3 pins of the SPST relay are the switch part of the relay

run a positive wire (+) to all the " C " pins of the switchs
on both the SPST and DPDT

... at this point you have battery (+) going to the switch common's ..... and battery ground (-) going to one pin of all the coils in the relays...

the rest is a matter of looking at what is happening

===========================================

relay 1 is on which turns off relay 2 which turns on relay 3 which turns off relay 4 which turns on relay five which turns off relay 1... which turns on relay 2... which turns off relay 3...

its a frustrated curcuit ... it can never find a static state .... so every 30th of a second its clicking away in a cycle that never ends ....

===========================================

what is important...

relay 2 and 4 ... your DPDT relays follow the pattern 00 , 10 , 11 , 01 , 00 , 10 , 11 ...

run a extreemly large ground wire to the center post of the automative coil ... and the (NC) pin of relay 2 to one post of the automotive coil .
and the (NC) pin of relay 4 to one post of the other automotive coil .

then

run a wire from relay 1 (nc) to the other coil pin on relay 2
run a wire from relay 2 (nc) to the other coil pin on relay 3
run a wire from relay 3 (nc) to the other coil pin on relay 4
run a wire from relay 4 (nc) to the other coil pin on relay 5
run a wire from relay 5 (nc) to the other coil pin on relay 1

pls note... (C) = the common of a switch
(NC) = normaly closed
(NO) = normaly open or a powered closed curcuit

the coil does not care which is ground or positive... it will funtion with out regard to polarity....

when the curcuit is broken to the automotive coil... a spark will occure between the center post and the oppisite post...

be warned... it will be of very high voltage , and quite a nasty little spark... 1/2 inch or more... so you might want to handle it with a weeee bit of care...

reply to post by semperfortis


Thanks for the heads up.


As far as "Common Sense" is concerned, I would hope that we all have the basics down but what I'm missing is tactical operations SHTF common sense. Wilderness survival for me is a given but that's due to my geographic location. Most people have Urban/Suburban survivability issues to deal with.

Rabbit hunting with your Ruger10/22 tack driver isn't as likely as protecting your home from intruders in a SHTF survival situation. My family unit is my only concern, and that's where Mr. 12ga comes in.

btw

My favorite survival weapon(s) are my fishing poles.
And I'm a natural born killer.

[edit on 30-8-2009 by The Undertaker]

reply to post by The Undertaker

My favorite survival weapon(s) are my fishing poles.
And I'm a natural born killer

I would love for you to start a thread on that!!!!

My fishing skills need work

Semper

I have to agree .

frankly speaking , so far I agree with everything I am hearing .
rabbit or 'deer' are not the problem for me... its the "dear'' that shoot back I have a problem with .

survival in the real world , I can go camping in the wood and have a good time .

I can and have dress'd a deer ( never shot one ) and know how to gut , skin and clean a deer .

the rifle I talk about is not a hunting rifle... it is worthless hunting anything but praire dogs , and oranges , lemons and mellons ...

personal is the .375 , nearly everything else is a shot gun .
who I am is defined but my heavy sniper rifle .

who you are is defined by what you carry with you .

not good or bad ... grass is green , sky is blue... not good or bad ... it is just what it is...

every one is where they stand , I am not going to try to second guess you .

I agree that being prepared is important , what I was trying to say is... civil unrest and riots , very often catch to proffessionals by surprise ... if the police don't see it comming , I feel it a bit humbling , and imagin I would not see it any better than they might .

reply to post by semperfortis

The 870 is an excellent weapon as is the Glock.. However for survival, the 10/22 is perhaps at the top if not the top of my list.. (Think of the amount of ammo you can carry) I have both an 870 in 12g and in 410 and they are both wonderful shooters and I carry a Glock every day but prefer the 1911/45acp

I am thinking about getting some of the newer mini shells for the 870; I understand they feed "alright", but can be weapon specific "picky". They would allow more ammo to be carried; due to their compact nature.

I love the 1911, but in a cold climate the hot to cold, or cold to hot causes a lot of condensation to occur; yes, yes, yes, with care no rust....... I do care for my weapons; however, the issues possibly occurring with condensation I just prefer the Glock to carry.

The 10/22 is very very close for my favorite, but being in big game country, or really Tee'd off game country can be in adequate should You need the defense.... It's still an excellent weapon.


reply to post by Asktheanimals


I'm a little confused what the Man was talking about. Both SPDT, DPDT, or any combination there of are used in electrical schematics/controls, or electrical motor control terminology. I could go on, and on since I come from an electrical engineering background, but for everyones sake here I won't. Needless to say beyond actually trying it, the man is trying to create a large hum; through the relays.

I don't know that it would work, and in a survival situation I don't think You'd have an electrical generator running, and portable to power the consumption of said relay coils.



[edit on 30-8-2009 by sanchoearlyjones]

reply to post by The Undertaker


the only fishing I do , is trying to find things in my closet .

the urban / suburban survival tactics begin with definitions .

the best begining points are what you do normaly... but where the answers are changed .

if the power is off , how do you feed your self .
canned veggies are a good supply of water as well as something to eat .

any water can be made tolarable if you have cloth washing bleach.
but let it sit for 24 to 48 hours .

candles and flash lights are not as good as oil lamps .
the best answer... when it gets dark... go to sleep .

have the very old , or less capable take the night watch .

urban pet dogs are not as good as country animals , but better than nothing .
frankly a dog is the very best alarm system , when it has a night watch person with it .

during the day , be helppful of those around you .
the first rule of survival in urban /sub urban ... the people around you are either an asset ... or gone .

90% of people are good , honest , hard working , and clever ... no diffrent from you .
5% are angels , who will do for others befor doing for themselves .
.....

then there are the other 5%... leave you alone or leave .

poor people know how to do things that avarage people don't have to think about .
look for the skills and talents of the people around you , in crisis , you will be surprised what level people can rise to , and do .

but , the energy you put out... the attitude you express with , nearly always be answered with a common attitude .

---------------------

I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination .
but I have seen revoltion when I was in spain just after franco died... and that was a "peaceful" revolution .

frankly speaking , I suspect it will be the same here .... and SHTF time is not going to look or feel like anything in our minds today .

No two folks will likely agree on firearms as each person has their own needs, abilities, skills, and limitations, which are individual.

So there is no best firearm.

In all human history, firearms are very recent practical developments.

Even in SF, there was a plethora of firearms used, as everyone had their favorites.

The non-firearm weapons we were issued for combat was a choice of two special knives, and a specially designed hatchet. On one side was the blade, and on the back side was a spike.

One might snicker at the hatchet in this modern world of firearms. Yet every culture through history had a variant.

It's a chopping tool, the pick is a digging tool, and of course, the entire thing is one hell of a weapon. It never misfires, no stovepipes, no broken firing pins, it's not affected adversely by dirt or even getting wet, and will be one of the most versatile, important tools one can obtain.

Lagana VTAC, Cold Steel VTAC, MFG LLC VTAC, American Tomahawk VTAC, and the spin-off SOG Fusion are all variations of the extremely effective, very versatile Vietnam Tactical Tomahawk.

This tomahawk is taken from a thirteenth century Horseman's axe, with the back spike handy for punching through armor. The VTAC back spike can blow right through the old steel helmet, or even the new Kevlar helmet - if need be.

Full tang knives of good quality carbon steel or even some stainless steels are another necessity. For the curious, go to SOG knives, and view the SOG Bowie, and the black Agency. This will give you a good idea of a fine, lifetime fighting knife, and then you can go to other manufacturers for comparisons.

A lot of the larger fighting knives are difficult to skin and dress game with, so one might want to include a good drop point knife for these more delicate tasks.

The Hollywood knives and fantasy designs are crap.

One other thought that is very cheap is a US machete. Get the longer machete as you will wear your ass out using the shorter ones. The longer machete provides more leverage, more mass, greater efficiency, and a greater reach.

The machete can be used for gathering wood, making shelter, clearing a bedding area, or for fighting.

I much rather have a tomahawk, knife, and machete than a firearm if that was the only choice. My firearm may let me down.

The steel tomahawk, knife, and machete tools won't.

I picked myself up one of these Kel-Tec SU-16C's, for close to half the price of a new AR-15:



Here is a link to one persons thorough 'torture test' of the SU-16C:
www.ktog.org...

And here is a nice long (informative) video review of the rifle (3 parts):

Kel-Tec SU-16C, Pt 1: Featherweight Firepower
Kel-Tec SU-16C, Pt 2: Featherweight Firepower
Kel-Tec SU-16C, Pt 3: Featherweight Firepower

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


very kool...

what I was discribing is a bipolar stepper motor , mechanical relay logic . but rather than running the power relays of the stepper motors....

wire it to the primary feild of two HV coils .... that are totaly unsheilded .
with a car battery as its power , you have 5-6 hours of jamming

the 4 stage EMF would wreak havoc on fm and am radio signals that are local . any pulse width modulated signals would totaly fry ... and any drone in the air above would suddenly be unable to hear any command signal going to it .

very much like a ungrounded , unsheilded , blue spark ... TIG , MIG , or welder ...

its unlikely it would get a homming guilded missle fired at it...
as any CB radio or unsheilded blender might just as easily be targeted just after it goes active .

mainly what I discribed was a very loud radio interferance device...

Excellent Thread!

This is certainly a personal topic but at the top of my own inventory list is -Common Sense
-Knowledge
-Springfield XD 9mm
-Remington 870 with mag. extension and a variety of shells from 00 Buckshot to #7 Bird.
-My trusty Browning Semi Auto .22 and a Bucket full of Thunderbolts. The barrel detaches in a matter of seconds for easy and light packing. I have a 10/22 also but I love how the Browning packs down so easily.
-My handy Leatherman Wave and or SOG Power Plier
-I never hit the bush without my Rat Cutlery RC-4. It is a do it all work horse of a knife in a great easy to carry package.

When you talk about a survival weapon, do you mean, just dealing with feeding the family with it and staying alive? If that is what we are talking about, and I had to pick one weapon it would be a ruger 10/22.

When you throw 2 legged predators in there things get complicated. In my opinon if I had to pick one gun period for survival, and defense/offense against people it would be the AK-47.
AK's are equal to the 30-30, in terms of stopping power, and nearly as accurate. It matters not whether it is freezing cold, raining, or blowing sand, when you pull the trigger it goes boom.

Urban settings usually are cleaner than rural settings. The AR is more accurate, and in my opinion I am better with it. I do a lot of IPSC, IDPA, and 3-gun matches. I have competed against my self by shooting the same course with the AR, and AK. Mind you neither are stock, but the AK is pretty close to stock. I have about 2500$ in my ar. It has a jewel trigger, and a bunch of other goodies. One time I won a tac carbine match with the AR, and the closest other dude was 13 seconds back. Me and the AK were 19 seconds off my AR time. So I like my AR better.

AK has more knock down power which is really important if you are shooting an elk or big mean bear.

But since we don't have to pick just one, guns are like golf clubs, and you might as well have the whole bag and way too many balls while you are at it.

reply to post by dooper


Absolutely a must in my BOB, a do it all tool.

Tomahawk, hatchet, whatever any culture calls it, it's a great thing to have.

Helpful hint to those who might want one: Make sure you keep it sharp...personal experiance tells me sharp is better than dull...ouch...

www.woodmanspal.com...

I've always liked the looks of this but have never tried it. Anybody have one?

Before We proceed any further I feel gun safety deserves a second look. Sometimes even the best of us can scr$w up. Always treat a firearm with care, concern, and always be ***aware of where it's pointed***

Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. Also I am not a scientific/legal or medical expert in any field. Beware of my Contagious Memes! & watch out that you don't get cut on my Occams razor.All of this is my personal conjecture and should not be considered the absolute or most definitive state of things as they really are. Use this information at your own risk! I accept no liability if your ideology comes crashing down around you with accompanying consequences!

Explanation: S&F!

I have made my personal opinion on these matters very clear on previous threads RE: .22 rifles [bolt action and no scope prefered] and any medium calibre revolvers and any shot gun would suit me fine although a .303 rifle [battle and survival tested everywhere!] is my prefered weapon of choice!

1stly I have some inquiries concerning Ammo. How much does one actually need to carry? [I'm talking either No#'s of individual rounds of any calibre! or, if this not a fair measure then please reveal the mass in lbs or kilos!] I personally would want to be pretty light and mobile [even when sniping] and would therefor limit myself to about 4x full magazines/clips for the rifle or the shotgun and I would probably only carry 1 x two-handed weapon at any one time. I would also probably limit myself to carry only a couple of extra quickloads for the revolver! Please Note my previously stated position [on other threads] on recycling and manufacturing ones own calibre's! Any advice would be much appreciated.

2ndly Being an Australian and living in the urban environment and as a Disability Support pensioner with mental health issues, I 1] have no need for possessing any gun of any kind and 2] I'm not allowed anyway!
But thankfully my father and his father [both rural and military trained and skilled] both rigourously drilled me in there uses, maintenance,abilities and especially in the OH&S protocols. The only gun I have repeatedly fired and become used to firing in a combat scenerio is a semi-auto 300psi paintballgun [hired at the range] with a long barrel. This close combat training has learned me that massive casualties in any large sustained firefight is guaranteed in a short amount of time! [even with 90% using "slow" pump action weapons!!! ]
I am seeking advice as to whether even entertaining trying to hold any ground in a SHTF SitX is really a survival attitude and also any advice concerning the effectiveness of airpowered and flare guns!

Personal Disclosure: Its seems to me that all the small animals will quickly get killed and consumed in a SHTF SitX unless we restrain ourselves and it is my contention that it is a waste of ammo on these small game which can be trapped and snared! This is why I contend that a large calibre rifle is extremely useful as it can seriuosly handle medium and large game! What would you rather do...shoot 30 rabbits/birds etc. or shoot 1 cow/kangaroo/pig etc per month??? [salt and smoke are you preserving food friends! ]

P.S. Totally looking forward to semperfortis's thread on Bows etc.

reply to post by seagull


Absolutely, keep them sharp. The easiest way to hurt yourself with a tomahawk, machete, or especially a knife is to use a dull one.

When a blade is dulled, you are required to do some compensation, and that's what always gets you hurt.

The sharper a blade, the safer the blade.

After going back through this thread, I realized that I forgot to mention one especially nice feature of my Browning .22. The rifle ejects spent casings from the bottom. This is especially nice when/if my left handed wife takes a few shots. She's not as comfortable with firearms as I am but, she likes to shoot the Browning because of that one little feature. Just my two cents on a rifle that gets little attention. Cheers.

reply to post by The Undertaker


I saw one of these in the store awhile back..

It looks very interesting and useful...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cc1339011929.gif[/atsimg]



Semper

reply to post by semperfortis

Semper, it's a fine tool to be that compact. But again, the shortness will wear you out.

If you saw the last Rambo movie, this is just about what he forged for himself.

It's much akin to a minature swing blade, or Kaiser blade.

You can actually make a fairly good one out of a large truck leaf spring. But if you do, make it a bit longer to take advantage of the laws of physics. Energy equals mass times velocity squared.

You'll note which number is squared.

Longer blades, all other things being equal, means more energy.