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Survival Skills Pt3 - B.O.B w/ links and pictures

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CX

posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by Asktheanimals
I've skinned many
deer and even elk with the mora and frankly the big kabars and
bowies are really unsuitable for that task.

Odds are you'll be skinning rabbits and squirrels for the most
part. Still I could see the usefulness of the bushman for a spear
or throwing weapon. I just can't adjust to the idea of throwing
my knife at an enemy. lol.


Thats interesting to here you've skinned animals with the mora, i was contemplating buying a skinning knife but if the moras are ok for the job, i might just stick with them. I know you can skin animals with pretty much any blade at a push, but i just never associated the mora with skinning.

Thanks for that info, definately food for thought.


As for throwing the knife, i'm with you on that one.
I've tried many a time to master chucking knives at a target, but lets just say i'm no ninja lol.

Only takes one lousy shot and the last person you want to have a knife, suddenly has yours!


CX.




posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 
Yeah, I forgot to say earlier that I never thought about getting trapped in a tree. Could you give us any commentary on SERE from your own experience?



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 07:10 PM
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what's a realistic amount of gear one person can carry? on average? like if i wanted to be as prepared as possible, what would you consider excess?

i tend to be a "less is more" guy, but i've never really packed for "going for good", or long term, always for a week or less



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by patrickhatch
what's a realistic amount of gear one person can carry? on average? like if i wanted to be as prepared as possible, what would you consider excess?

i tend to be a "less is more" guy, but i've never really packed for "going for good", or long term, always for a week or less


1/2 to 1/4 your body weight, depending on your gear, degree of comfort in carrying it and physical condition. The terrain you will be in will also affect your decision - will you be doing any serious climbing or water crossing? If you can do it with less weight then by all means do so.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 08:45 PM
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Great thread! Thanks!


You made me rethink about a .22 rifle...

About the knife... is a ballistic knife expansive, easy to find, legal?

[edit on 31-8-2009 by Vitchilo]



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 08:48 PM
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reply to post by patrickhatch
 


Set out everything you think you will need. Then cut it down to half, eliminating all but the most needed. Then do it again. I have learned that I can go a prolonged time with only minimalal equipment. I can't say it is easy but I have gone out this way a number of times. The issue with this method is it is very unforgiving in any climate other than for which you have packed.

Search for my post on EDC[every day carry]sorry can't figure out the link thing
This is what goes with me everywhere, and is carried in a small ruck. Weight is approx6-8 pounds. It might give you some ideas.

respectfully

reluctantpawn



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:10 PM
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good advice...

so my intent is more for "practice" than "bugging out IRL" because i don't think i'm quite comfortable enough yet, i was thinking a bag i can bring with me camping/hiking so i can stage scenarios, and try stuff out, even in my back yard...but i want to "practice the way i play, play the way i practice" so to speak...so i want to have my gear stash established to do this practice, etc...i'm gonna start shopping for stuff...this and the "what's in your go bag" are two topics i'm using as a shopping list basically...then i'll start thinning from there...



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


Ballistic knives, like everything else, run the gamut from really really cheap, to really expensive..

The legality issue is dependent on the jurisdiction you are currently in.

I don't care for them personally as they generally have little blade strength due to their design.

Why would you want one anyway when most quality folders now have a thumb catch that assists in one handed opening?

I have several switch blades in my collection and love the way they look, I even have an Italian one dating back to the 1950's; but I would never consider them for serious work.

Semper



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by Bunken Drum
 


What I would say about SERE and JEST would get me banned...



Seriously tough schools....


Semper

Edit to add...

What if anything you learn from me here, will be what I learned in those schools among others...

[edit on 8/31/2009 by semperfortis]


CX

posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 03:17 AM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
Great thread! Thanks!


You made me rethink about a .22 rifle...

About the knife... is a ballistic knife expansive, easy to find, legal?

[edit on 31-8-2009 by Vitchilo]


I watched a programme on tv the other night where the Green Berets and Spetznas were competing against each other to see who was the best
......anyway they had the ballistic knife on there and whilst it was very effective, it lost on one main point....if you miss with the one shot you have with it, you're buggered.

When i was younger i had throwing knives and used to practice throwing many other blades too. After years of experience and growing up (well kind of
) i can think of nothing worse than throwing your knife away towards a person that will just turn it around on you.

Fair enough if you are an expert knife thrower and have a few at your disposal, but most of us here don't have that skill and spare knives to just throw away.

I think i'll keep mine close by.


CX.



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 09:16 AM
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Originally posted by semperfortis reply to post by Bunken Drum
 
What I would say about SERE and JEST would get me banned...
Seriously tough schools.... Semper
Lol! I'll bet! I did some kiddie version camps when I was a teen. I was super fit then, so the only real hardship to me was being yelled @ by staff constantly, regardless of f#ups or success. But yeah, even the week long course wasn't so hard, because we didn't have to carry all our water & food!

Edit to add... What if anything you learn from me here, will be what I learned in those schools among others... [edit on 8/31/2009 by semperfortis]
Thanks!



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 09:17 AM
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Double post. Sorry.

[edit on 1/9/09 by Bunken Drum]



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 09:18 AM
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WTF? Triple post. Aaaargh!

[edit on 1/9/09 by Bunken Drum]



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 03:52 PM
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Great Post-Nice Pictures-Neat Idea~~~~

Let’s talk a minute about the one facet of this plan you have not mentioned---

WEIGHT!

Ahhh-the little bugger thing about weight.

Have you ever humped a 75Lb rucksack through the mountains, in the rain, when your dog tired, and there are a thousand and one reasons that you should be in a tactical mode?

"Several pounds each of food supplies"?? WOW! You must have super-human endurance, or can hump 15-20 pounds of dried food, in addition to all that gear. Impressive ~~!

Weapons and ammunition weighs many heavy pounds. And that will be in addition to all the other 'shtuff" your hauling around.

Let’s examine this plan a little closer in real terms:

1) Its midnight. The weather outside is snowing, and it's -20 degrees below zero.

2) You have five minutes to get out of the house, and away from population centers.

3) There's no utility services, and martial law has been declared.

4) You grab your BOB, guns, and head out to your "well rehearsed" survival/evacuation route-heading towards your own personal 'safe spot" several miles distant.

5) The first mile through the deep snow (yeah-ya forgot the dang snowshoes and goggles) are tough as all get out. The swirling snow makes it hard to see, and every step sinks you down a foot and a half. (It's all that weight you see)

6) You find yourself in a small clearing, tired, and taking a quick five minute break to rest your aching back; when suddenly there's the sounds of a snowmobile coming at you. You look across the edge of the clearing, and see 4-5 headlights bobbing (at high speed) directly at you. They spread out to form a skirmish line, and the riders behind the drivers are brandishing assault rifles, hastily leveled at your general direction.

7) You've been spotted by other 'survivalist" and perhaps you have stumbled into their AO (Area of Operation), and they want to find out who the heck you are, and what you’re doing; say nothing about what your carrying...

8) You can’t hide in the snow, and you can't run with that heavy pack on either, and you sure as hell can't start engaging them all by yourself. (Even though you like to think you’re like John Rourke), so what do you do?

The reality is simple my friend, your screwed....

Turn this scenario around and imagine that they have DOGS hunting you. A pack of Dobermans, or Rottweiler’s come charging at you. A very likely scenario, given peoples propensities for protection these days. All that weight will surely bog you down.

The much simpler plan would dictate that you "ALREADY" have ample supplies tucked away in buried drums at a secret location.

Your Bob should contain enough supplies to carry you to the next “RP” (Resupply Point), which is nothing more than a plastic bucket with airtight lid containing a small cache of supplies/gear to get you through the escape route to the next RP.

My thoughts are this.

I keep a “survival vest” filled with essential items, and enough grub to last 48 hours. In all, the vest weighs just over 8 pounds. I can survive with these small items alone.

Each RP contains another 48 hours worth of supplies, and some extra gear. However far way you have to travel, should dictate the number of RP you need.


I live approximately 30 miles North of Anchorage, Alaska. My retreat is about 100 miles away in the back country of Alaska interior. Walking that distance in the summer months would take me about 10 days. Winter would double that. Being tactical would add another 5-6 days to that scenario.

So, worst case scenario tells me that walking a month in the winter would require a serious amount of tactical expertise, and a lot of weight.

Yes-I keep the ATV and Snow-machine all tanked up, and it awaits the moment that I will fire it up and haul outta here. But again, things happen, and I may very well have to walk out of here.

A fifty year old wife, and a 14 year old daughter are some of the “misc stuff’ that I have to haul to my ‘secret spot in the woods”. Naw-that just isn’t gonna work for me.

The solution is pretty simple; each of us keeps the survival vest ready, we have the machines to ride if we can, but we are prepared to huff & puff it to the retreat if necessary. The going will be tough in the winter, but at least we don’t have to hump a lot of gear.

Gortex/Windproof/Waterproof (-150 rating and very costly) Extreme Cold Weather Parka double as sleeping bags when fitted with a pair of bibs. I can lay down in the snow, (even at -65 below zero) pull the facemask across my face, tighten the fur lined snorkel hood, and go right to sleep without a problem. I’ve done that a couple of time.

The next step is to actually rehearse the plan at least once…

Sadly the women folk in my family want nothing to do with walking 100 miles in the winter, but I have, and I am here to tell you that even under the best conditions, it terrible, rugged, and at the end of the day, even though it feels like you just walked 50 miles, the sad fact is that you’re lucky to cover 12-15 miles. Had I been forced to hump 75 pounds of gear on my back, it would have cost me about 6-7 miles.


There is a lesson from all of this:
K-I-S-S! [Keep It Simple Stupid! ]
Some things ya’ just learn the hard way, and during extreme circumstances, that’s the worse time to realize that your plans suck! [ Shed some weight my friend. Cache some of that stuff. ]

Personally, though I admire your tenacity, the fact is that you never mentioned where you were going, or do you plan to just wander about carrying all that gear around.

Pick a destination that makes you feel safe and comfortable. Off the road, but close enough to get there by dirt bike/atv/snow-go-whatever, but close enough to hike into as well. Bury what you need at the location, and make your plans light enough to actually get there. THEN DO IT ONCE TO GET A FEEL FOR IT! That’s right. Huff and puff your way, and remain out of sight or people, cars, planes, helicopters, and other hikers. No camp fires, no light, no noise. Try to avoid leaving a marked trail, and start walking. Stay off the trails and roads. Keep away from barking dogs, and be prepared to detour several miles around every lake/pond or house/cabin that you encounter.

BTW-I’m not sure where you live, or how the people in the area would react to some guy trespassing on their property, carrying loaded weapons, and looking for all intents like a mini-terrorist, Are you pretty adept at running from Police Helicopters with spotlights and night vision. (HEHE HEH)


When you’ve accomplished this at least once. Post some pictures of this grand adventure, and then let’s see your BOB list, and its staple items. I can almost bet your going to drop ½ of the stuff you mentioned.


Really though; I’m not trying to rain on your parade, but some of the posts that I read on here have me laughing until tears come to my eyes. The guys that falsely believe, that having enough guns and ammo will aid their survival. These are the guys that forget a couple of things; It might be winter, and there will be guys like me, that shoot back.

You also don’t have to actually own any property during bad times. Pick a spot, slide in there and drop your supplies into a well hid hole. Then erase all your tracks and slide back out of there.

During a crisis, is there really going to be “land ownership” other than the places that we actually habitat? Of course not. Government land, national forest, and parks will be filled with “amateur survivalists” all seeking to do the same thing. Escape and Elude~~!


Pick a spot during the summer months. Spend 24-hours watching it from a safe distance. See who comes and goes, and decide where you will place your drums. Walk 20-30 paces north, and put another drum in the ground. Do this until you have ample supplies buried at the site. No matter what the weather, you will always know where your “shtuff” is buried.

Take an afternoon road trip and drive to the site you have chosen. Every 12 miles bury a food grade 5-gallon bucket, 100 yards off the road, near a natural landmark, sign, bridge; something that you can spot easy in the dark.

Cache extra ammunition, food, water, and some basic subsistence supplies. Round everything out with extra clothing in vacuum sealed bags.

Where I live there aren’t a lot of people. But, Anchorage is home to 300,000 city folks that will be streaming north. There are a couple of inhabited areas/small towns that I will have to contend with, (on my way north) and many, many, miles of swamps, bogs, rivers, streams, steep mountains, and deep ravines. It sure looks like a sportsman’s paradise when I send pictures to my family in the lower-48 states, but in reality, each of these areas represents a potential “danger area” when viewed from a survival perspective. Let’s not forget the grizzly bears, wolves, feral dogs, and “Wannabe Rambo’s” armed with assault rifles that will share my trek north.

I have no delusions about what it will take to get there; having done it once on foot. The first 3-days were alright, but each day after that became difficult, at best. The mosquitoes snacked on me all day and night long. The blisters in my boots were killing me, and sweating profusely had me drinking more water than I normally do. At night the temperature, even though it was summer time, dropped down into the 40’s, and sometimes lower. The sunlight remained for 22 hours a day, with only a brief 1-hour of semi-darkness (like dusk in the states). As hard as I tried, there were still people that spotted me. And time after time I was growled at by mountains dogs protecting somebody’s cabin.

Both variety of bears were a constant problem as well. That meant that I had to stay away from salmon streams. I was charged twice, and though it was nice to carry that Ruger #77 chambered in the .338-magnum, and the 44-Mag on my hip; both got real heavy, not to mention having to maneuver the rifle through the shrubs and vines, as well as always having to be able to keep it within elbows reach.

Sleeping on the ground without a campfire was the Pitts. My Tommy stove worked, but I could only carry so much fuel in the vest. Chewing on hard biscuits, and washing it down with a cup of coffee was pure pleasure in itself………. But a warm meal was heaven on earth. I allowed myself a hot meal every three days. Given that smoke flows across the land, and that firelight can be seen at night, and the mere fact that the smell of food arouses various animals, it was a pleasure to have some hot spam, and instant rice.

But I was always mindful of the fact that if this was really a crisis, all of these elements would contribute to my being discovered.


Take a moment to consider your plan; learn something about what you will actually be facing. Do it for real, and then---Make The Plan-Work The Plan. A simple mantra to remember



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 04:03 PM
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Where I live there aren’t a lot of people. But, Anchorage is home to 300,000 city folks that will be streaming north. There are a couple of inhabited areas/small towns that I will have to contend with, (on my way north) and many, many, miles of swamps, bogs, rivers, streams, steep mountains, and deep ravines. It sure looks like a sportsman’s paradise when I send pictures to my family in the lower-48 states, but in reality, each of these areas represents a potential “danger area” when viewed from a survival perspective. Let’s not forget the grizzly bears, wolves, feral dogs, and “Wannabe Rambo’s” armed with assault rifles that will share my trek north.

I have no delusions about what it will take to get there; having done it once on foot. The first 3-days were alright, but each day after that became difficult, at best. The mosquitoes snacked on me all day and night long. The blisters in my boots were killing me, and sweating profusely had me drinking more water than I normally do. At night the temperature, even though it was summer time, dropped down into the 40’s, and sometimes lower. The sunlight remained for 22 hours a day, with only a brief 1-hour of semi-darkness (like dusk in the states). As hard as I tried, there were still people that spotted me. And time after time I was growled at by mountains dogs protecting somebody’s cabin.

Both variety of bears were a constant problem as well. That meant that I had to stay away from salmon streams. I was charged twice, and though it was nice to carry that Ruger #77 chambered in the .338-magnum, and the 44-Mag on my hip; both got real heavy, not to mention having to maneuver the rifle through the shrubs and vines, as well as always having to be able to keep it within elbows reach.

Sleeping on the ground without a campfire was the Pitts. My Tommy stove worked, but I could only carry so much fuel in the vest. Chewing on hard biscuits, and washing it down with a cup of coffee was pure pleasure in itself………. But a warm meal was heaven on earth. I allowed myself a hot meal every three days. Given that smoke flows across the land, and that firelight can be seen at night, and the mere fact that the smell of food arouses various animals, it was a pleasure to have some hot spam, and instant rice.

But I was always mindful of the fact that if this was really a crisis, all of these elements would contribute to my being discovered.


Take a moment to consider your plan; learn something about what you will actually be facing. Do it for real, and then---Make The Plan-Work The Plan. A simple mantra to remember



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by AlaskaFranke
 


Great post AF. You have obviously been "out there" and
walked the walk so to speak. Every point you made was
valid and is a plausible idea where you live and plan to go
to in the event that SHTF.

All my gear, plus 168 oz of water comes in at 57 lbs. Not easy
to carry but unlike you I only have to hump 10 - 20 miles to
get to where I'm going. I have stashed some stuff years ago
and lost a bucket when they cut down the woods, lol.

Notice the difference in firearms between us - I carry Ruger
10/22 and a 9mm auto. My ammo is much lighter than yours.
I'm not well geared to be getting into any firefights but my plan
is to lay low during the day and travel mostly at night. I know my
area well enough to navigate it in the dark. My routes are
deer and bear trails and are rarely traveled even by hunters.

I live in Virginia so I don't need much in the way of cold
weather gear like you would. I can't even imagine trying to
carry enough into the Alaskan bush to get by in any season.

I've made it a habit to go where people don't - the thickest briars
the steepest hillsides. Once you learn people's behaviors you
can well predict where they WON'T be going.

I can cut much of my weight if I know there will be water
available en route. I would only carry my full load of water if
I was going high up in the mountains where you only get water
when it rains.

I'm still debating whether or not to pack my take-down bow. Not
much weight even with arrows but very bulky plus arrows get
broken or lost too easily. I can make arrows but not without fire
or a great amount of time spent.

I have walked many miles in the mountains with more weight than
I have in my BOB. Plus If I'm traveling with someone else we can split
some of the weight - first aid kit/water filter/ammo.

That was all good advice that you gave - you should start some
threads of your own since you obviously know your way around
the woods. Thanks for the reply!



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 09:41 PM
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I use Badlands packs. I have a Badlands Monster Lumbar pack and then a Badlands ultraday pack for back with hydration bladder. You can't beat these packs for toughness, they come with a lifetime garauntee and are very lightweight. Google Badlands packs...great packs.
The main two sites I then get my equipment from are bestglide.com and basegear.com.
Bestglide is great for surv. gear, take the time to figure out there arrows for going page to page once in a catagory.



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by GregoNow
 


Thanks GregoNow, nobody had really addressed the simple
matter of WHICH backpack to use. I recommend the A.L.I.C.E.
packs because of cost and toughness but there are many better
packs such as the badlands.

Packs with built-in water bladders are a godsend. My day pack
has one and it is so convenient to have that tube ready to drink
from without having to pull a bottle or canteen out to get a
drink. This is particularly important if you are in a hunting or
tactical situation where extra movement is contraindicated.

Perhaps you could make a thread on backbacks and cover the
basics for us about size, fit, compartments, materials, etc.
I don't think I've seen a thread on the subject yet. Thanks for
your post, the links are very good.



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 06:26 PM
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Yea, I was going to make a thread on a few surv. topics but it said I needed to post like 20 times or something before i can start a new thread, so I figured I just reply to the posts that were already up here and then a few other places on ATS. I guess I'll try and see what happens...



posted on Sep, 12 2009 @ 06:42 PM
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Also, the reason I went with Badlands is not only do the packs last but because they are very lightweight (if you pics the diablo, ultraday, superday, monster packs). Weight is everything when it comes to a go pack or B.O.B. which ever you perfer to call it.
Like Gerber has a decent pack which is the Gerber Grasp 150 pack but I think it just ends up weighing to much, especially after you put water in it.
My Badlands monster weighs in at less than 25lbs and I have that pack packed with every type of tool/equipment you could possibly need and more for survival.
also you need a tough pack if you are going to be in a long term survival situation. Badlands is as tough as you get, thats why they have a no questions asked garauntee for life.
I'd like to make a new thread on here with a few topics on surv., so I asked a super mod. if they could hook me up with that, so we will see...



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