Jaycee Lee Dugard girls were like 'brainwashed zombies'

reply to post by habu71




Excellent post

which puts it in perspective

Sad perspective, but factual nonetheless


Unfortunately, those of us attempting to put this case (one of thousands) in harsh perspective might possibly be regarded as not being outraged enough, or of making excuses, which is not the case at all


[edit on 29-8-2009 by St Vaast]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler



Another great post from you

You've raised many pertinent issues, as you always do

Thanks for doing so

particularly for raising the 'latch-key' child syndrome resulting from working mothers, resulting from ....

great post

reply to post by poet1b

Not from what I have seen, and I have family in law enforcement and friends. Where I live, if you decide to plead not guilty to a traffic ticket, and miss your court date, they arrest you, even if you have made another appointment for a court appearance. If the police are that busy, then they shouldn't be arresting people for traffic tickets. It is a con. It shouldn't be that hard to get a warrant to search someone's home when the guy is a convicted sex offender on parole, and someone has been kidnapped.

The actions of the police officers are driven by local politics (unfortunately). If you "miss" a court date, you have now ignored a legal summons. Unfortunately, there are so many that do, local jurisdictions now have to allocate street officers to serve arrest warrants because the agency is judged (and funded) by it's arrest ratios. Not right, but, remember, priorities are not driven by that officer, his supervisor, or even the Chief. The priorities are decide by your elected representative, the Mayor, City Council, etc.

It is NOT easy to get a legal warrant simply because someone is a convicted sex offender, the law requires that evidence enough for probable cause that a crime has been committed be ACCEPTED by a judge, who then can decide on WHATEVER BASIS HE WANTS, whether the warrant is issued. I, personally, have presented, along with the prosecutor, many, many cases of suspected abductions, abuse, etc, judged by all of us to be watertight, only to have a judge decide that no warrant is "deserved".

Originally posted by St Vaast
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Another great post from you

You've raised many pertinent issues, as you always do

Thanks for doing so

particularly for raising the 'latch-key' child syndrome resulting from working mothers, resulting from ....

great post

The reality is that the familiar unit has been under attack since the early 1970's.

Mothers and fathers both work full time to make combined on average less than what just a pre 1970's blue collar or white collar male made.

People spend 87% of their waking hours just trying to eek out daily sustinance while 90% of the world's wealth is horded in less than 10% of the world's hands.

The end result is a whole lot of people not having ideal lives without having to even be kidnapped first.

Most children today are raised by an extended family of text messages and internet x-box games and their parents have scant interface with them during their all important formative years.

Worse still is liberal institutions teach children from an early age that parental authority can only be taken so far. Most children now days dictate to their parents how to parent per what they see on TV, per what their teachers and adminstrators tell them, per what their friends tell them.

A house divided is what most houses are these days and it is economics that lead more families to split at a paternal level, and it's the liberal institutions that further cause the house to divide at a generational level.

The end result is emasculated men, harried and stressed women, and children out of complete control on the fast track to a job at Walmart.

I am not sure if this particular girl was a victim or lucky when you get right down to it, because the reality is that it takes an extreme case of abuse like her's, to make the average childhood today seem ideal, when it is far from anything but.

To the 10's of millions of latch key kids, growing up in broken homes, or homes where both parents work, short on cash and wholesome recreational and educational opportunities, often born to parents who also were simiarly afflicted there sadly is no outrage for their victimization.

We sadly all live in a cruel often too tempermental world, where we have perfected into a science the illogical through a mass media that states its politically correct and logical.

The reality is in 1970 with strong families this could not have happened.

The child would have never been so poorly attended and left in harm's way.

The perpetrator would have never been able to hide the fact he had an underage girl who wasn't his child living in his backyard in tents and a shed.

In reality this is what the 10% who horde the world's wealth do to the 90% who spend 87% of their waking hours performing as non-living wage slaves.

They have turned the backbone of the nation, it's middle class, and middle America into a zoo full of confused, frightened and stressed out human animals.

As usual what's really responsible for tragedies like this will go unnoticed and unsaid while those who want to avenge for the sake of venting the above described frustration are given an easy target in the form of a brain damaged, drug addicted, sexual deviant.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Thanks for your reply my friend.

There are several things wrong in this story.

First, what's the use of 50 year sentences if they send the guy home after 11? In Portugal they can only leave on parole after half of the sentence has been executed (probably wrong word, but I cannot remember the right one).

Second, what's the use of the "sexual offenders list" if it's not used?

Third, how is it possible that the whole community was completely unaware of was happening? Also, if he live there with his wife and her mother, but nobody knew anything about it? They did not lived in an isolated house in the middle of nowhere, apparently being a neighbour means nothing today on that area.

Too many wrong things, but at least this had a happy ending, as far as this can be considered happy, after all it was a 18 years torture sentence just for being a girl...

reply to post by ArMaP


His original sexual offense crime was before the FEDS had mandatory minimum sentencing guidelines. Today if you got 50 years you would basically get 100 months off for good behavior, 2 months each year.

In those days after you were in the system 5 years, typically you would start coming up for parole.

He was a 24 year old who suffered brain damage in a motor cycle accident and was addicted to '___' at the time of his first offence. His victim was a 24 year old casino worker he kidnapped and raped.

The Sex Offender laws that are currently in play did not apply to a case that happened prior to those laws coming into existence.

For instance many people were taken off of death row in the 1970's when capital punishment was outlawed. When capital punishment was started again then in the 1980's those who had their sentences commuted to life with no parole weren't put back on death row.

Today the man faces an entirely different criminal justice system. People sentenced post mandatory minimum guide lines have no chance at parole, anyone with any type of sexual related offense no matter how small or trivial is branded a sex-offender for life under new federal and state laws but you have to break one of the laws first and be caught doing it, and this man hadn't until now.

The man is clearly crazy and not normal from a combination of external factors most of which are his own doing. He isn't simply just a good/normal person turned sexual predator, he was a good/normal person brain damaged in a motor cycle accident and then brain altered through repeditive '___' use.

Plus it looks like he was a kind of a conspiracy buff too!

You know what that means!

CRAZY!

Originally posted by ArMaP
In Portugal they can only leave on parole after half of the sentence has been executed (probably wrong word, but I cannot remember the right one).

I think 'served' is the word your looking for - although an execution in this particular case may not of been a bad thing... and I am against death penalties for all but the most twisted of crimes.

I think a big part of the problems we see in cases like this is the type of person who is committing the crime... They seem to have an ability to commit the maximum crime they can realistically get away with for the longest amount of time.

When they do get caught they are able to understand the situation they are in and minimise the penalties - convince people in charge that they have done the time required.

It's a very difficult idea - because for every murder, for every kidnapping there are always things - little easy things - that could of been done differently... So now you have a public on one hand demanding change, but on the other valuing their rights and privacy... And we all know how ham handed bureaucracy can be at times.

Originally posted by poet1b

It is almost as if nutcases like this are freed to prey upon the public in order to keep people paranoid. This clearly was a situation that was completely avoidable in the first place.

I think you hit the nail right on the head there poet.........I think they DO let out the freaks to pray upon us, and even IGNORE the freaks they know about on purpose.........I mean, the GUBMINTS NEED US AFRAID so that we rely upon them to save us.......and I think this is just another modus operandi they use.

[edit on 29-8-2009 by theRiverGoddess]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
The reality is in 1970 with strong families this could not have happened.

The child would have never been so poorly attended and left in harm's way.

The perpetrator would have never been able to hide the fact he had an underage girl who wasn't his child living in his backyard in tents and a shed.

...those are examples of bs... sexual predators kidnapping kids happened in the 70s and the 60s and the 50s and as far back as you can go... the dugard girl was not "poorly attended and left in harm's way"... her stepfather was watching her walk to the bus stop... no one couldve predicted that a car would suddenly make a uturn and snatch her - not even you in your 1970s perfect world fantasy - and - back then, it was easier to hide kidnapping victims because the ward and june cleaver types just ignored "bad" things in lieu of baking cookies and getting their daily dose of propaganda via the 5o'clock news...

Also, too many resources are put towards fighting the victimless crimes like gambling, prostitution, and especially drugs. I have one word for the governments of the day: priorities. Priorities.

reply to post by habu71


Actually, the priorities are decided by the judges, and that is just an easy way to pump up their numbers. What is shows is that they don't care about fighting crime, only about their jobs.

If these judges don't want to do their jobs and issue warrants when a neighbor calls in and reports that a registered sex offender has kids in his back yard, the system has failed horribly. Can you admit this?

The one police officer who talked to the guy didn't even do a background check.

When something like this is discovered, known sex offender is able to hold a girl hostage for 18 years, then the system is horribly failing us, and it is not because there is a lack of money. We have the largest prison population in the world.

Something is terribly wrong with our legal system.

reply to post by theRiverGoddess


In this case it certainly does look like there was no interest in keeping this guy from hurting others.

That they would let this sick bugger off when so many NON-VIOLENT drug offenders are in prison just shows how bad the priorities of our justice system is.

ALWAYS the call is for more money.

Meanwhile there is rampant abuse by the police on a regular basis.

Personally, we are not getting what we are paying for back out of this system, when a paroled, registered sex offender can keep a girl locked up in his backyard for 18 years, something is seriously wrong.

We already pay too much, and have give up too many rights for a criminal justice system that remains extremely dysfunctional.

reply to post by TheComte


Yep, because those crimes are profitable.

You can bet when it comes to these kinds of crimes they have no problem issuing warrants and tearing peoples homes up looking for drugs. These stories of raids are in the news all the time.

They bring the dogs in then, but to protect a little girl, suddenly they can't be bothered to try and get a warrant, or do a background check.

There is something very bad about the way this situation was handled, and most people want to sweep it under the table.

I hope more comes out on this.

I hope a lot more people start to ask why this guy wasn't look at a lot harder, long ago.

This is a situation where Government is clearly not doing its job.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
The reality is in 1970 with strong families this could not have happened.

The child would have never been so poorly attended and left in harm's way.

The perpetrator would have never been able to hide the fact he had an underage girl who wasn't his child living in his backyard in tents and a shed.

...those are examples of bs... sexual predators kidnapping kids happened in the 70s and the 60s and the 50s and as far back as you can go... the dugard girl was not "poorly attended and left in harm's way"... her stepfather was watching her walk to the bus stop... no one couldve predicted that a car would suddenly make a uturn and snatch her - not even you in your 1970s perfect world fantasy - and - back then, it was easier to hide kidnapping victims because the ward and june cleaver types just ignored "bad" things in lieu of baking cookies and getting their daily dose of propaganda via the 5o'clock news...

Wow watching an 11 year old walk to the bus stop? That must have been exhausting and not toooooo effective either.

When I was 11 I got walked to the Bus Stop 1/4 of a mile each way by an adult who stayed in attendence until I was on the bus and who was NEVER not there when I got off the bus.

You sound just a wee too young, and a wee too resentful to have been there and done that, but hey you are full of great remedies right? You were just about to post one before South Park came on huh?

The question you have to ask yourself if you are being honest is what would the step father have done had he been within arm's length like someone should have been?

Would the man still have attempted the kidnapping? Would the step father have risked life and limb to prevent it, considering he was 'just' a step father?

Once again did economic conditions drive the natural biological parents to split? Would the natural father if alive and there have risked life and limb to prevent the kidnapping had he been within arm's length?

Or should we just go with the Camp Obama premise that your kids head out the door on their own to a liberal paradise where the State will teach them how to be good socialists and decry the 'bad old' days when familiar values really were values and standards and people had real morals and self discipline instead of 'political correctness' and 'instilled' emotional anger and a 'sense' of 'victimization' for what the evil Ward and June Cleavers of the world did to them?

Yes there has always been sexual deviance and there always will be sexual deviance, but once upon a time it really was the parent's job to prevent the woes and ills of the world from befalling their children prematurely...that is before their job was simply "Would you like to supersize that for an extra 1.00?"

What's your solution? How would you prevent something like this happening?

I drove my kids to school door to door, that was my solution.

You know what they say...an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...something you might have heard on Leave it to Beaver...back when common sense had no substitute called 'political correctness'.

At least the mother loves the children. After seeing such a demented man like that- its quite surprising which means he must have led them like a cult. Exactly how he wanted to.

Whats great in the end is this man and his wife will never see the light of day again- if they do they will be forever remembered as rapists/sickos and lets not forgets psychos with deep deep records most likely under probation & or house arrest (if even released later on). This man and woman will never get away with something like this again.

Perhaps Karma really is out there...just takes a bit longer to come full circle.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Ah yes, be afraid, be very afraid. You can never let your children wander down the streets, because the authorities would rather release a psychopathic kidnapper rapist than a non-violent drug offender

SO we must turn our children into our prisoners, so that they don't become prisoners of someone else.

Yeah, great logic.

All because the police would rather enforce morality laws like prohibition, vice, that sort of thing, which really only succeeds in creating more crime.

Maybe if the guy could go pay for it, he wouldn't have done what he did.

No ones parents walked them to the bus stop when I was a kid.

Most of the kid where I live now do not have their parents walk them to the bus.

It shouldn't be this way. Law enforcement should be doing their jobs fighting crime, not vice.

This guy already knew long ago what he was doing was wrong and somehow believed if he treated this girl, now a woman, better and his and her children, that she wouldn't rat on him? I missed the part how they found them. I think he admitted it.

Then there's the wife, than there's the neighbors who just weren't nosey enough to talk to the kids or climb the fence. I guess he had dogs?

I would be most embarrassed if I was a neighbor.



I have to wonder how much longer this would have went on if he hadn't come forward. I suppose it's the guilt he had over his own chidren......finally. Imagine all that time and not being able to go to Disney Land? I bet they'll be going there now.

I'm curious if we'll ever see these people. I suppose they might come forward, but if they keep their identities secret, they might be able to start new lives without the nosey press haunting them. ( though doubtful) I suppose they'll make a movie about this one.

ProtoplasmicTraveler
The reality is in 1970 with strong families this could not have happened.
The child would have never been so poorly attended and left in harm's way.
The perpetrator would have never been able to hide the fact he had an underage girl who wasn't his child living in his backyard in tents and a shed.

Wyn Hawks
...those are examples of bs...

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
You sound just a wee too young, and a wee too resentful to have been there and done that, but hey you are full of great remedies right? You were just about to post one before South Park came on huh?

...my children were born in the 70s... after you try to calculate my age based upon that one fact, try researching the following names of murderers who were active during the 70s and see if you can figure out where your little fantasy view of that decade went wrong...

...john wayne gacy was a pedophile that preferred boys... he killed 33 boys and young men...

...carl (coral) eugene watts - "the sunday morning slasher"... his youngest victim was 14...

...ted bundy - his youngest victim was 12...

...jeffrey dahmer got his start in the late 70s... he liked boys too...

...wayne williams murdered two boys and is suspected in up to 28 other murders...

...dean arnold corll and accomplices david brooks and elmer wayne henley murdered at least 27 boys... the youngest was 13...

...kenneth bianchi and angelo buono... their youngest victim was 12...

...i could on go for a long time and include murderers / rapists / pedophiles / kidnappers in the 60s, 50s, 40s, 30s - but - there is no need because my point is proven - your grip on reality is meager at best and your need to blame the parents of murdered children is horridly offensive...

reply to post by Wyn Hawks

...kenneth bianchi and angelo buono... their youngest victim was 12...

I lived in the Tammarind Apartment Building that Kenneth Bianchi did at the same time...so yes, sexual predators cruising up and down Hollywood and Sunset Boulevard with a white Ford Sedan with a County Seal on the Door fooling runaways into believing they were police officers has exactly what to do with a solution?

I asked you specifically what's your remmedy as well as some real questions about how better parental supervision and common sense makes tragedies like these harder to befall someone...

Yeah I can see how being that realistic would be a challenge for those who have no remmedy and always need someone to blame besides themselves.

The reality is when the buck stops here as a parent and the parent can and will be 100% respoonsible to protecting and raising a child then NO they aren't going to get kidnapped on you.

So I am to understand you have no real suggestions or ideas how to prevent things like this from happening?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Wyn Hawks

 

...kenneth bianchi and angelo buono... their youngest victim was 12...

has exactly what to do with a solution?
I asked you specifically

...thats some attitude you got there...

Yeah I can see how being that realistic would be a challenge for those who have no remmedy and always need someone to blame besides themselves.

...you've been blaming everyone under the sun... hypocritical often?... i bet you are...

The reality is when the buck stops here as a parent and the parent can and will be 100% respoonsible to protecting and raising a child then NO they aren't going to get kidnapped on you.

...you're wrong and horridly offensive, again...

So I am to understand you have no real suggestions or ideas how to prevent things like this from happening?

...your understanding is as incorrect as your fantasty perception of the 70s and your false sense of power... if nothing bad happened to any of your kids, it had nothing to do with your style of parenting - nothing... you just got lucky - thats all - just dumb luck...