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People Claiming to be Military on ATS, A Rant.

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posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 08:52 PM
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reply to post by IDK88
 


If you want blatant proof I'm a Counterintelligence Special Agent and a Staff Sergeant in the Army - I can give it to you.

35L3O

Was in the 4th Infantry Division from 03-07 and now in South Korea.

Been to Iraq twice.

I see no need to lie on a forum about my identity.



[edit on 28-8-2009 by mf_luder]




posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 08:58 PM
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reply to post by Tetragrammaton
 


Only the part of the multi-layer/faceted aspect of wars. Or are you going to explain to me that War is just about military operations? and noone else within our society makes it possible for those war to be fought and won. just give you guys what you ask for and don't ask to many questions.

Like I said earlier...military you may be...but the vast majority of you have absolutely nothing interesting to talk about in that respect; toilets need to be cleaned everywhere. Most cops aren't in gun fights. Most military experiences are just as mundane. That's what I am saying. So why does ATS have such a disproportionately large number of military claiming to possess knowledge critical to understanding the War on T and placing themselves in the position subject matter expert?

if history doesn't remember soldiers...but remembers Kings; how is it that so many Kings visit ATS?





[edit on 28-8-2009 by IDK88]



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 09:22 PM
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67U in the Tx Army National Guard some twenty years ago. Changed wiper blades on Chinooks. Woohoo. Was never shot at and never shot at anyone else...tied a mean safety wire though. It's not just in military threads though. Some people think that your opinion doesn't matter if you don't fit into their little box of what makes you important enough to have anything worthy to bring to the discussion. The engineer brought up a great point. I knew Chinooks from the wheels up to the Jesus nut. I never flew one, or dropped ballot boxes off a sling, but I still have opinions. They might not matter to someone else, but that's not my problem. When I claim you don't have a valid opinion because you don't fit inside my box, chances are I'm just trying to stifle your argument so I don't have to entertain the notion that I might be wrong, or mistaken, or unable to accept that there is something I don't know. When I close my mind, your experience, opinion or potential contribution is irrelevant.
Lighten up, guys. There's room enough at the table for all of us.



 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 09:24 PM
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reply to post by IDK88
 


I think in part it it becuase the United States Military in general is not centralized. At least not as centralized as other nations. The NCO is sorta unique to us, not that other countries don't have NCO's, they do, it's just that soldiers are a lot more autonomous than most people think. Whenever people ask me about it, I almost always hear some smartass quip "do what yer told soldier!". Said in a mocking manner. Like it's funny. Yes, it's supposed be insulting, I know. I don't get annoyed by it much anymore. Mainly because I've gotten better at ignoring stupid children.

The idea that "you just follow your damn orders", is in many ways, inaccurate. I can't speak for other services, just the Army. I can tell you that it's pointless to take orders from the head of the snake if you are on the tail. Because when the head gets cut off, your screwed.

The American Military is largely based around de-centralized leadership. It enables small groups of people, you would probably consider to be expendable, to operate with very little guidance. This is why you see a lot of "kings". They are the ones making descisions. There is no Luke Skywalker. There is no Captain Solo. There is the soldier, his NCO, and the rest of his squad, and thats it. (I left out LT's, and everyone who is military knows why.......... which way's north?)

EDIT: Now, I'm not saying that an 11 bang bang straight of of basic is going to somehow garner the authority to launch a nuke. I'm saying that Your average infantry soldier, is very very far from stupid, and more capable than anyone in his age group. Not just capable of blowing things up, but capable of critical thinking. He has to, or he puts his life in danger, not to mention everyone around him.

But on your OP, yes, there are quite a few morons out there hiding behind the veil of anonymity. They are easy to spot, and they are easy to shut up. One thread here comes to mind in particular. It was the thread written by that goofabll that claimed he went through worse torture than water boarding in Basic training. Obviously he was just guy with too much time on his hands. Watched a bunch of movies about people getting marched around base..... singing cadence everywhere they go........ rofl. Dude had no idea. And it showed. Some people called him out, and I was one of them, and after a while, he went away.

[edit on 28-8-2009 by aravoth]

[edit on 28-8-2009 by aravoth]



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 09:27 PM
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reply to post by IDK88
 



Originally posted by IDK88
reply to post by Tetragrammaton
 


Only the part of the multi-layer/faceted aspect of wars. Or are you going to explain to me that War is just about military operations? and noone else within our society makes it possible for those war to be fought and won. just give you guys what you ask for and don't ask to many questions.

Like I said earlier...military you may be...but the vast majority of you have absolutely nothing interesting to talk about in that respect. Most cops aren't in gun fights. Most military experiences are just as mundane. That's what I am saying. So why does ATS have such a disproportionately large number of military claiming to possess knowledge critical to understanding the War on T and placing themselves in the position subject matter expert?

if history doesn't remember soldiers...but remembers Kings; how is it that so many Kings visit ATS?





First of, I am currently assigned to the National Guard Patrol/Surveillance, and have been for some years, this have something to do with my personal life (I have a new wife, with that a new son, so my responsibility I feel is with my family, before that I served as a grenadier scout, I haven’t been in Afghanistan, but I have been in Iraq, Kosovo and Bosnia.
I am not here to talk about my military experience; I reside in the secret society forum, where I conspire against the free masons (now currently applying for membership in a lodge)
I wouldn’t say that my military experiences are mundane, but you are free to think that they are, I am not here to flex my muscles or show my epeen.
What I know about the war on terror isn’t from my service in the army.
Everything in the army is on a need to know basis, I currently get informed about things like threat levels, coming events I am needed for like the Climate Meeting in Copenhagen etc. and assignments where we assist the police etc.
But this does mean that I have first hand knowledge of the missions I am directly involved in.

I like to say that soldiers are like women, internally we like to brag, and show scars and tell war stories, and someone always have the better story.
I take these stories with a gram of salt, for instance in the National Guard, I have met more ex special force troopers than in my active out of country duties.
These types I know aren’t Special Forces, I can see it, but I have no reason to call them out.
A lot of soldiers also like to put themselves in more important positions than they are.

I am a sergeant, and I am cleared for Secret, (that’s just below top secret) but that does not mean that I know everything that’s available to my security level, it just means that I can be presented to sensitive information marked Secret, and nothing else.
Below secret is what we call, Service Use; this level cant legally be disclosed to outsiders, not even family. And below Service Use as you might have guessed we have Public.
I can tell you what I have seen myself, and what stories I have heard, I trust some of my sources, others I don’t.
I wouldn’t be able to tell you squat about terrorist, why? Because I do not believe I have met anyone, or I might, but I haven’t seen them as terrorist, I have met a lot of militants, and even fought some.

For one to become a subject matter expert on the war on terrorism, he would have to be a high ranking officer working in the intelligence office.
Such an expert you won’t find here on ATS sharing what he has, unless he is a whistleblower.
But then again, since everything is compartmentalized, authorities would quickly be able to pin point where the leak has happened.

In regards to Star Wars I think there is a language barrier, I do agree overall as I tried to say in the beginning, that there are more to wars than meet the eye, and that soldiers rarely have a clue as to the real reason they or there comrades are dying (I am not a communist, but we do call our colleagues comrades where I come from)
For instance, we where only told the official story about why we where in Iraq etc)

Also, a good rule is; is he sharing anything from an ongoing mission, like the data you asked for in regards to Afghanistan, I would say that it is certain the person is lying.
No soldier would risk his own life or the life of his fellow colleagues sharing sensitive idata on a web forum.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by aravoth
 


You make a good point, soldiers don’t just follow orders, soldier are trained to think for them selves, and react to any threat or hostile situation that might arise.
Also in regards to orders, soldiers are trained only to follow LEGAL orders; a soldier is not allowed to follow an illegal order.
An illegal order would be an order that violates the rules of war, or is outside his current profession, i.e. a general ordering me to wash his car, is an illegal order, a captain ordering me to get his coffee or shine his boots are an illegal order.
But only because I am not his personal aide, was I his personal aide the above orders would be legitimate.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by PokeyJoe
Im in the Air Force as well....well at least for the next 2 months


Anyways, like some have said, people that arent in the service, dont know crap about what really goes on. Well most dont anyways. What you know about the military you learned from Anderson Cooper or Geraldo. Oh, and the so called replaceable Storm Troopers are the ones out there every day doing the work. The Air Force probably has spent about 100,000 dollars training me in the past 6 years.

Also, like most above have said, we can tell who is legit, and who is not...

What's your AFSC?



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 10:04 PM
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reply to post by FantasmaTaans
 


100.000,00 doesnt make sense tbh.
if he is a pilot that is.
1 danish fighter pilot, cost around 3-400 thousand dollars to train, and thats just the training he gets from our us allies and the basic training he gets here at home... (yes we send our fighter pilots to usa for training, we dont have the facilities to train fighter pilots)



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 10:05 PM
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3C052....

And you?



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 10:07 PM
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Originally posted by Tetragrammaton
reply to post by FantasmaTaans
 


100.000,00 doesnt make sense tbh.
if he is a pilot that is.
1 danish fighter pilot, cost around 3-400 thousand dollars to train, and thats just the training he gets from our us allies and the basic training he gets here at home... (yes we send our fighter pilots to usa for training, we dont have the facilities to train fighter pilots)


Well when youve been to about 10 or 12 training classes that are between 2-5 thousand apiece, plus tons of other stuff, it tends to add up pretty quickly. Im definitely not a pilot. Just your run of the mill storm trooper.

[edit on 28-8-2009 by PokeyJoe]



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 10:09 PM
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11BC2
19D20

I made things go boom.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 10:13 PM
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Roger that.

Then it makes sense

I have cost my government around 1 million dollars I would think, but it’s really hard to make any number, but with all the missions, drills and NATO exercises.
+ A ton of different individual training courses, + maintenance + salary... It quickly runs up...
Then again, it is not like I have seen anything anywhere near a million dollars, but it would be a fair estimate as to what it has cost to keep me in operations, this is over a period of 10 years (on an off)


Edit: it may sound as much, but a fighter pilot to stay with the example, serving 10 years of active duty, would cost 100 times more.
Grunts are cheap in comparison..




[edit on 28-8-2009 by Tetragrammaton]



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 10:23 PM
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No offense OP, but your problem is not with people claiming to be military. Your problem is with liars in general. Liars are one of the scourges of society and because of them we can never know who or what to believe in. We can't simply tell everyone to shut up about their life and personal experiences simply because they might be one of the liars. That would be letting the liars win. No your problem is the same as my problem. Our problem is lies and the liars who tell them, no matter what topic we're dealing with.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by SpacePunk
reply to post by IDK88
 


There will always be pretenders. Military, and ex-military can always tell the difference. If not immediately, in due time. Everyone who claims military affiliation that have never had any military affiliation always screw up eventually. Most have gotten their military knowledge from Hogans Heroes, and it shows.


Agree with the above poster.

I don't know how many times I tried to de-bunk some form the military supposedly came up with just to get ridiculed and in the end the form turns out to be completely false. I could linger around each thread and say I told you so but I don't.

Heck I even claimed a very famous "form" to be false that the so called experts said was not. 10+ years later "oh gee we guess it is false" I had an expert ask me why it was false and I refused to tell him at the time saying "If I told you that then every tom, dick and harry would be putting up forms to match my specifications and it would be impossible for me to tell what was or wasn't true"

That being said there is a very easy way to tell whom has been actual military and who hasn't. DDForm 214 (or equivalent if in military decades ago had a different number) all former military are required to have one as it is a requirement when claiming military experience in a job application to provide one to the employer.

Then if active duty there is always, military ID, AFF1074 (flight crew and pilots require this card on them at all times), etc.

But you have to remember the govt. has a public relations section that sends out what could be propaganda in order to keep public out cries of certain things to a minimum and it may or may not be true.

As for just plain saying someone is wrong and providing no evidence to back it up it will either be 100% accurate or 100% wrong. When that happens everyone takes it with a grain of salt especially if they are newly registered then they are pretty much ignored until they establish a rep on the board.

I just say that because there are certain things I know and will not give hard evidence of such as forms as I don't want every person faking the forms to become better at faking them, I want to be able to know for sure what is fake and isn't. Then there is a couple things I never discuss just because of the possible implications. May try to steer a topic in a direction closer to what I know as the truth but won't just blurt it out as that could be very dangerous.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by IDK88
reply to post by Tetragrammaton
 


Only the part of the multi-layer/faceted aspect of wars. Or are you going to explain to me that War is just about military operations? and noone else within our society makes it possible for those war to be fought and won. just give you guys what you ask for and don't ask to many questions.

Like I said earlier...military you may be...but the vast majority of you have absolutely nothing interesting to talk about in that respect; toilets need to be cleaned everywhere. Most cops aren't in gun fights. Most military experiences are just as mundane. That's what I am saying. So why does ATS have such a disproportionately large number of military claiming to possess knowledge critical to understanding the War on T and placing themselves in the position subject matter expert?

if history doesn't remember soldiers...but remembers Kings; how is it that so many Kings visit ATS?





[edit on 28-8-2009 by IDK88]


lol, i was in the 82nd airborne, 2-505 PIR, airborne inf. got out in 2000, never saw any action, but i can buff a floor like none other. but there are MANY other people out there that have seen combat, some talk about it, most dont. i think some people from the military sound like they know more than the average civilian about combat training etc...is that they do. if they have seen action or not, they still know more about combat than 95% of the civilian pop. how bout not bashing military people that talk too much, just thank them for serving the country, and voluntering to protect YOU.

Airborne!Hooah!



posted on Aug, 29 2009 @ 12:55 AM
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While I disagree with OP's way of presenting it, I think he's got a valid point.

The fact that a person is out there in Iraq or Afghanistan doesn't mean s/he has a clue about what's going on over there. No soldier has a bird's-eye view of the operations. They may know the name of the town they're in (or near), they may know something about what's going on around their immediate vicinity. But really, most of these people aren't able to see what's going on around them.

It's pretty much like anyone in a city. There could e a huge newsworthy event a block away, and you'd never know about it.

So, I'm not sure that being in the military over there makes you know what's going on over there.

Plus, of course, not everyone who claims to be a soldier, is a soldier.



posted on Aug, 29 2009 @ 01:07 AM
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reply to post by Tetragrammaton
 


When I was on dayshift I used to launch out foreign pilots all the time, I remember this french guy left a airspace booklet in my cockpit. He owed me a beer big time. Lol this 3 level preflighted my jet and totally missed that.



posted on Aug, 29 2009 @ 01:08 AM
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Originally posted by PokeyJoe
3C052....

And you?


2A353

Crew Chief

What's your job title? lol, idk what that is.



posted on Aug, 29 2009 @ 01:11 AM
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You're wecome OP for calling that guy out for you.

Was active duty as a 91W, got out and joined the reserves after about 8 years. Orders to go back to Iraq were cancelled. So I will be jumping back into my active duty boots as a 15N.

Been to Iraq once, which is pretty amazing really, don't ask me how that happened. I could tell you stories to prove I was there, but they are none of your buisness.

Scratch that.

I am Storm Trooper #5.



posted on Aug, 29 2009 @ 01:12 AM
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Originally posted by Tetragrammaton
Roger that.

Then it makes sense

I have cost my government around 1 million dollars I would think, but it’s really hard to make any number, but with all the missions, drills and NATO exercises.
+ A ton of different individual training courses, + maintenance + salary... It quickly runs up...
Then again, it is not like I have seen anything anywhere near a million dollars, but it would be a fair estimate as to what it has cost to keep me in operations, this is over a period of 10 years (on an off)


Edit: it may sound as much, but a fighter pilot to stay with the example, serving 10 years of active duty, would cost 100 times more.
Grunts are cheap in comparison..




[edit on 28-8-2009 by Tetragrammaton]


Are you really a pilot? Which AF, and What frame?



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