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Majic Of The Wilderness.

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posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 09:00 PM
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Seriously it should be illegal to kill animals for "sport" its murder plain and simple




posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 09:11 PM
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sancho, I can't tell you how much I enjoyed the video and pic.



I have a story of my own to share with you. Years ago my husband had bought a bow and arrows, tree stance, and every concievable item he would need to hunt deer. He was so determined and confident. Until one day... there he was one early morning in the deep woods, sitting up in his tree stance, when right below him was this big beautiful deer. He said there I was sitting looking at down at him and he was looking up at me with those big innocent eyes and... I couldn't do it. He hasn't been hunting since!



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 09:13 PM
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Guys.....

If you haven't seen it already, watch Grizzly Man. Your luck WILL run out!

Your hearts in the right place but these are wild animals and I would hate to see something bad happen to ya.


Peace and safety.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by lucentenigma
 


Comments like Yours are why I put it up.


reply to post by reject
 


I really am a IT reject. I don't even quite get what Your talking about...
I do own up to that fact. I know lots of other stuff


reply to post by thefreepatriot
 


Sport?? No such thing with modern advances in weaponry. However, hunting to feed Your family I have no problem with.

I have known more malicious sport hunters, than real hunters. More times, than not if they can't find what they were sporting to kill, then they'll kill something just for the sport of it



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 09:18 PM
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My question is, what happens when you guys leave this property? If these bears still come around when new people are living in the area, they may not be greeted with such a friendly welcome. So when the food that they expect doesn't come, to what ends will they go to get it?

Something to think about.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by sanchoearlyjones
 


I have to ask, what happens when your friend and his father are no longer able to feed these bears? What happens when these bears come back one year and there is no food for them? What happens when these bears venture into more populated areas looking for food from other humans?

They are being conditioned to have less and less fear of humans. That lack of fear or distrust, will lead these beautiful animals into places and situations that will get them killed.

I'm sorry but these animals do not see this land as "safe" they see it as a place where there is food. You put a pile of food in the middle of a highway in bear country and guess what, bears running out in traffic.

I understand that it is beautiful to interact with nature and to co-exist, but do you think that native Americans or any other more primitive cultures that co-existed with nature, fed the animals? I'm sure this is a beautiful sight and quite amazing to see. But I think your friend and his father are playing with fire. They are putting themselves and these beautiful creatures in more danger than they realize. Their actions will probably result in many of these animals becoming dangerous to people, once they are unable to feed them.

Sorry to be Mr. Negative but this is not a safe practice for your friends or the animals.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by Night Star
 


I am so glad to hear that. Again hunting for necessity is one thing, but to go hunt for simply the kill is kinda dinked out; imho.

My grandfather, and his whole side are big bad military types. He was in WW 2, and saw his fair share of action. He was an avid hunter until he came back. He said the first deer he killed, it was as though he could see into it's soul. He also vowed to never hunt again.

reply to post by Rustbelt
 


No doubt my Friend, I don't recommend this to everyone. I was invited to partake in this. My friends started out sport hunters, and have since changed their minds. I was wanting to show the beauty in nature, which We are all part of.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 10:30 PM
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very cool...


But what happens if the food runs out?

and I also want to ask how often do you guys feed them?

Would it not be a good idea to do it too often? In that the babies may not learn to hunt for their own properly? I wouldnt think it would be beneficial to rely on that area for 'easy pickens'...if you see what Im sayin

Just a concern...not flaming what so ever... great story



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 10:51 PM
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reply to post by paradigm619
 


So far in 12 years the bears have not become a nuisance. As far as when they move? Well, we've got really big bear up in these parts, but the sad fact is they are hunted out very fast. They don't live that long. Scar has been coming back for 6 years, but most haven't.

reply to post by iamcamouflage
 




I have to ask, what happens when your friend and his father are no longer able to feed these bears? What happens when these bears come back one year and there is no food for them? What happens when these bears venture into more populated areas looking for food from other humans?


There have been times when they have not fed. None of the neighbors, or them have had problems. We live out in the sticks where there is an abundance more, or less of food. To get to this location is 10 miles by car bruising dirt miles. My front end on a truck had to be rebuilt after one year.

I am, and have been not to worried about it.



They are being conditioned to have less and less fear of humans. That lack of fear or distrust, will lead these beautiful animals into places and situations that will get them killed.


Most bear hunters I've met practice bear baiting. They find a secluded place, and bait the bear for a couple of weeks with food. I "think" it's illegal, but they still do it.

I personally have run into the same animals on my property, and others neighbors the same, never have any of these bears approached us.



I'm sorry but these animals do not see this land as "safe" they see it as a place where there is food. You put a pile of food in the middle of a highway in bear country and guess what, bears running out in traffic.


How would You qualify it just being any ole' pile of food when male, female, cub, and various other animals come in at the same time? Don't shoot me, but it really feels like something different.



I understand that it is beautiful to interact with nature and to co-exist, but do you think that native Americans or any other more primitive cultures that co-existed with nature, fed the animals?


Modern man is totally destroying the habitat, read some of my earlier posts in this thread for an explanation. The indians, I don't know what they did exactly, but overall they lived in more harmony by not destroying like modern man.



Sorry to be Mr. Negative but this is not a safe practice for your friends or the animals.


See this is where You, and I part ideology. I believe in Natural Rights. I cannot, nor I will not tell someone else what is safe, or sound for them. My Friends have had several People come out....into the 100's with children, and never a problem. I'm only speculating, but it could very well be the modern World of ideology with the problem. Even if I had no dealings in this, then I still would support, or not denounce it............As in post's before this I mentioned the deliberate interaction Man has with wildlife, and almost all of it in a negative manner.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 10:57 PM
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You people are absolutely nuts.

You DO NOT feed wild animals. EVER.

When you do they come to think of humans as a source of free, easy, food and when your not able to cough it up when they come lookin, your toast. Predatory animals hunting and survival instincts kick in on the onset of hunger, humans are no different. When bears are hungry, they will kill you if they think you are standing in their way of their next meal.

THink they dont do this? Ask the many thousands of people who have been attacked at a provincial park, or even in their yards. Its not that they intend to hurt you physically, its just that you are an obstacle that needs to be removed. And they will do it when they are desperate.

And for the person who said they enjoy feeding their deer, have you any idea how many people have been killed by deer while trying to feed them? Seriously.

Ive lived in the sticks my entire life and if its one thing you just dont do is feed the damn bears. Its sad that because of modern times that we are slowly pushing them over the edge and have reduced them to eating our trash and scavenging our neighborhoods but this wasnt always the case. Lets not forget that bears were once the more dominant species, well above humans and even wolves. It is speculated that humans first formed tribes as an effort to survive against bear attacks and its thought that wolves even befriended us to aid in their survival as well.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 11:08 PM
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reply to post by open_eyeballs
 




very cool...
But what happens if the food runs out?
and I also want to ask how often do you guys feed them?
Would it not be a good idea to do it too often? In that the babies may not learn to hunt for their own properly? I wouldnt think it would be beneficial to rely on that area for 'easy pickens'...if you see what Im sayin
Just a concern...not flaming what so ever... great story


Hi, and thanks for the post. The food has run out before, and without a problem the animals go back to nature; usually they do put out food daily, but again there have been days without food.

As far as hunting? Black bears are more scavengers any ways. They will eat wild berries, dead carcusus, fish should they be able to catch them, and they eat a lot of bugs...... You can see bear sign where in an older undisturbed forest. There will be rotting trees standing, or laying down, and the bears will literally claw them open for the bugs feasting on the log. I do see what Your saying as far as easy pickins, and the bears getting lazy..... That's where it gets more weird. There are different bears. Some come in everyday, or so, and others only once in a week...

I'm telling everyone it's really unique, or maybe it's the way it should be to some degree...donno.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 11:29 PM
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reply to post by metaldemon2000
 




Have you any idea how many people have been killed by deer while trying to feed them?


Have you any idea how many people have fed the deer and never been harmed? We've always fed the wild animals as do many of the neighbors, but then we all live pretty far out, away from Joe mini van.

But we do agree... People should leave the animals alone.
99 percent of them should never attempt anything more than to watch wildlife from the zoo or on animal planet.

I wish they'd all stay in the city and out of natures backyard. It's better that way for everyone all the way around.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 11:33 PM
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while I agree with what your neighbour is doing (since I love animals myself) and agree he/she has been doing this for 12 years without incident, it only takes one time for something to occur, especially hand feeding as shown in the video..... but... it's not my life. Cheers,

p.s - i'd love to live out there.



posted on Aug, 29 2009 @ 12:03 AM
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reply to post by sanchoearlyjones
 



Most bear hunters I've met practice bear baiting. They find a secluded place, and bait the bear for a couple of weeks with food. I "think" it's illegal, but they still do it.


The difference here is that the bait is in the woods by itself. The bear finds the bait, and then is probably shot. But it does not know where the food came from. It is not making the association that human=free food.


How would You qualify it just being any ole' pile of food when male, female, cub, and various other animals come in at the same time? Don't shoot me, but it really feels like something different.


Have you ever seen bears fishing salmon from a stream when they are running? All ages and sexes will co-mingle to an extent because there is a huge, easily available food source. Now watch what happens when the food runs out, you will see the males become much more aggressive.


Modern man is totally destroying the habitat, read some of my earlier posts in this thread for an explanation. The indians, I don't know what they did exactly, but overall they lived in more harmony by not destroying like modern man.


I agree with you, modern man is destroying habitat and the Native Americans did live much more harmoniously with nature....but feeding wild animals is NOT living harmoniously. Its actually doing the exact opposite. Harmony would be giving the bears their space and staying out of their way and not harming them. Feeding them is not natural. Is there some other animal that altruistically feeds bears(and not by sacrificing themselves as food)? This practice may seem like a good thing but what they are doing is actually destroying their habitat even more, they are essentially domesticating the bears.


See this is where You, and I part ideology. I believe in Natural Rights. I cannot, nor I will not tell someone else what is safe, or sound for them. My Friends have had several People come out....into the 100's with children, and never a problem. I'm only speculating, but it could very well be the modern World of ideology with the problem. Even if I had no dealings in this, then I still would support, or not denounce it............As in post's before this I mentioned the deliberate interaction Man has with wildlife, and almost all of it in a negative manner.


You're right and i should have worded my response differently, sorry to sound harsh but i could really care less what unsafe thing you or your friends do. I'm actually worried more about the safety of the bears. If your friends get killed by a bear, its really no skin off my nose but when one of these semi-domesticated bears decides to come into a populated area and attack someone for food, is what i have a problem with.

Example: I could care less if someone wants to get hammered drunk, hop in their car and blaze around their own property, smashing into everything, until their dead. But I do have a problem with it when they decide to take their vehicle out on the road and endanger me.


I'm really not trying to argue with you, I have read a lot of your posts and I respect your contributions to this site. You and I just have a different view on this subject. But I assure you, feeding wild animals, IS NOT living in harmony with them. In fact, based on the food chain, the only way to feed bears and also be living in harmony with them, is to feed them your own body. You either, eat them, get eaten, or get out of the way. That is the crude harmony of mother nature.

[edit on 29-8-2009 by iamcamouflage]



posted on Aug, 29 2009 @ 12:04 AM
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Beautiful! I'm not opposed to killing for food or self defense, but those people who where killing them and then removing the bullets, well that's just sad.

Most people I know who hunt for sport, are also in it for the venison.



posted on Aug, 29 2009 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by Night Star
 




I couldn't do it. He hasn't been hunting since!


What a beautiful story Nightstar. Kuddos for your hubby! It takes a big man to do the right thing.



posted on Aug, 29 2009 @ 12:27 AM
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reply to post by metaldemon2000
 


Hey, Your right in Your own perspective, so more power to You. Have a wonderful life, and Peace.

I've already explained my position, and thoughts.

reply to post by iamcamouflage
 


Hi,


The bear finds the bait, and then is probably shot. But it does not know where the food came from. It is not making the association that human=free food.


Actually the bears do know. They are animals, and can smell a person coming from a long way off; the reason legal hunters are very particular about scent.



Have you ever seen bears fishing salmon from a stream when they are running? All ages and sexes will co-mingle to an extent because there is a huge, easily available food source. Now watch what happens when the food runs out, you will see the males become much more aggressive.

Sure, I have seen that in late mid fall... However, Your addressing only the bears.. I am not there right now, but at about this time is when the other species start coming in with the bear. There is somekind of harmony there.



Harmony would be giving the bears their space and staying out of their way and not harming them. Feeding them is not natural. Is there some other animal that altruistically feeds bears(and not by sacrificing themselves as food)? This practice may seem like a good thing but what they are doing is actually destroying their habitat even more, they are essentially domesticating the bears.

See the bears don't have "their" space. I cannot speak for Alaska, but the lower 48 have developed, and put expansive resorts where the natural habitats are for these animals. Most of the pristine habitat is also pristine for investors; they have no space. Again go read the OP; it is commen for jerks to move into the sticks, and bring 20+ hunters out at one time; to erradicate the bear from the area. The hunters need permission on private land.... How is that leaving the bears alone?

Again, I say again, the bears have maintained their natural instincts. The modern society We live in is like a cancer. I don't know completely about pre history, but from what I've read it was much more harmoneous. I cannot say given the practices of the Forest Service, Govt., Jerks bringing a bunch of hunters out, etc, that there is anything wrong with this practice.....Leave the bears alone, don't feed them, but my god as You, and everyone else has pointed out Man is consistently taking away the bears, and other animals habitats.



But I assure you, feeding wild animals, IS NOT living in harmony with them. In fact, based on the food chain, the only way feed bears and also be living in harmony with them, is to feed them your own body. You either, eat them, get eaten, or get out of the way. That is the crude harmony of mother nature.


I never said it was absolutely natural to put the bears on welfare, and that is what it is. However, they don't feed them that amount. The bears up through current day have maintained their wild nature......Other wise the sheriff, and game warden would be stomping all over my Friends.

Your very eloquent in Your writing, and make good sense. As You stated Mother Nature can be crude in many ways. Have You thought possibly Nature doesn't mind this with all the other encroachments by Man? Look at all the hair triggers in the natural World. Just one more minute, and all sorts of natural disasters could start happening.........Yellowstone, New Madrid, Tidal Waves, Cumbre Viage, The big one in cali...., etc.

I think Man in general is bucking Mother Nature to the ends of Her rope. I completely see Your viewpoint,and understand it, but at the same time Man in general is acting in an unnatural manner in regard to the surrounding area; which is Mother Nature's own self.

To call these guys wrong, well first in my opinion You'd have to call out one heck of a lot of People treading on Mother Nature like the Earth is completely theirs to trash.... It's not, and one day...I feel soon, there will be a wreckoning. I strongly feel that my friends are doing something closer(not completely) to being in harmony than 99% of humanity.

Just my two pesos Friend.



posted on Aug, 29 2009 @ 12:34 AM
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reply to post by porky1981
 


thanks for the post. I knew when doing it something could occur, but that's a chance We take everytime We take a breath. It's just life... The only thing We know for sure is that at some point We will die.

p.s. I would have liked to have shared it with anyone who wanted!


reply to post by calstorm
 


Yes, Many People brag of shooting the Wolves, or Grizzly. Some how they have forgotten that the wilderness does not belong to them. Some how they got stuck on the premise that the land they live on, or squat is theirs............. No doubt, no govt. should tax that land as it's not their's either....... It is Nature who it all truly belongs to.

The proof is in the fact that always land at some point reverts back to Nature... All We are is a temporary at best case scenario, custodian. Again, it ain't the govts. land, but Natures.

I think Karma will play havoc with the People who claim, or actually do kill because they hate the critter.

As far as using the land wisely, and hunting for food??? Heck Ya'



posted on Aug, 29 2009 @ 01:19 AM
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reply to post by sanchoearlyjones
 



Your very eloquent in Your writing, and make good sense. As You stated Mother Nature can be crude in many ways. Have You thought possibly Nature doesn't mind this with all the other encroachments by Man? Look at all the hair triggers in the natural World. Just one more minute, and all sorts of natural disasters could start happening.........Yellowstone, New Madrid, Tidal Waves, Cumbre Viage, The big one in cali...., etc.

I think Man in general is bucking Mother Nature to the ends of Her rope. I completely see Your viewpoint,and understand it, but at the same time Man in general is acting in an unnatural manner in regard to the surrounding area; which is Mother Nature's own self.



You are right, man, IS bucking mother nature to the ends of her rope. Encroaching on the land of wild animals does lots of damage and bringing hunters to eradicate them is also not right. But I believe that your friends behavior is no better than the people who are killing them. I'm sorry we dont agree and thats fine, we just have a different view point.

Feeding these bears, is not helping them. You are making the point that humans are encroaching and destroying mother nature, but the involvement of your friends is doing the exact same thing, its just a different method. I'm sure seeing all of this different species together is amazing and probably surreal, as it must look like a Disney movie but it is far from natural and definitely not helping the bears regain any territory or freedom. While it may feel as if they are giving these bears something, they are actually taking something away from them.

I really do feel the pain you're feeling with how disconnected many humans are with the natural world, but i dont agree with what your friends are doing as a means to become more in touch with nature.


Have You thought possibly Nature doesn't mind this with all the other encroachments by Man? Look at all the hair triggers in the natural World. Just one more minute, and all sorts of natural disasters could start happening.........Yellowstone, New Madrid, Tidal Waves, Cumbre Viage, The big one in cali...., etc.


By this logic, there should be no problem with the hunters killing them either, hair triggers and all. Things could be over in an instant so what does it matter. It feels like many of the people who are ok with this type of behavior are only justifying their own type of meddling.

Staying in tune with nature IS very important, on that you and I can agree. My stance on this subject is that you should go out and spend some time in the woods, experience nature...but keep your distance and avoid the direct contact with wild animals. Like I said, the truth to the harmony of nature is, kill, be killed, or get out of the way. I choose, get out of the way.

We will have to agree to disagree on this subject and thats fine. I enjoy this discussion and I hope for no hard feelings. I think we probably agree on many other things.

Regards


[edit on 29-8-2009 by iamcamouflage]

[edit on 29-8-2009 by iamcamouflage]



posted on Aug, 29 2009 @ 01:26 AM
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reply to post by iamcamouflage
 





We will have to agree to disagree on this subject and thats fine. I enjoy this discussion and I hope for no hard feelings. I think we probably agree on many other things. Regards


No hard feelings here. Each Person being entitled to their opinions is what makes the World exciting.

I know We agree on many subjects as I've read many good things You've written


Cheers.



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