It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Going green causes utlties to hike across USA

page: 1
1

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 01:14 PM
link   
www.heartland.org...

www.gtowntimes.com...

The new green incentive and laws passed by congress recquiring utlities to go green has hiked utlities up to as much as 18%. KCPL had a 17.5% increase recently and if you do a google search on utlitly hikes you will see many more stories like this.

Solar power and wind power is cheaper. I asked KCPL that if it is cheaper than why should I expect my bill to be higher? They told me to expect a $12 a month increase and I live in a one bedroom apartment. I was also told that after another increase goes through I will be looking at $130/month.

I really want to know what are the benefits overall? To me going green sounds more like less of an environmental issue than a money issue. (that would be going green in a completely different way.) If the way we had things before worked just fine; why do this? Global warming is not as big as climate change which is a natural cycle that we can't stop. Over millions of years there have been many climate changes yet the earth remained intact.

Will we see more stories like this soon:
www.ksfy.com...

I want some concrete proof that all the green efforts we are doing now is good for the people overall.

Any thoughts? Post other relevant web sites that may help support your veiw.




posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 01:52 PM
link   
I could not find my post. How do these go to the second page so fast. I would never have created another thread if I thought no one would read it. I usually search for similar topics first before making my own thread.
I really want some thoughts on this.
My family or friends isn't interested in this kind of stuff.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 02:13 PM
link   
reply to post by dreamseeker
 


Why does this surprise anyone? Anytime in this country when someones conserves a gas, oil on any commodity the cost goes up. If you live in area you need to conserve water, keep a eye on the bill and watch that rise.

You will find that going green is another excuse to raise prices.

Tru



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 02:42 PM
link   
reply to post by truskeptic
 


That is what I thought because people won't argue with that. A lot of people support the whole green movement or they won't want to seem as if they don't care about it.
What if they go green just to make more money yet don't actually go green. I see little evidence of wind mills or solar panels in my area.
I heard that KCPL 's green effort is to buy more coal? Coal is not a clean burning fuel, is it?



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 04:28 PM
link   
has this topic been done before? If so can someone post a relevant link? I am really curious what others think on this issue. I figured this fit right in with this site.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 04:44 PM
link   
It is totally a money issue. Wind and solar power are great, but they don't pencil on a level of scale. You have a lot of folks in this for money, starting with T. Boone Pickins, who purchased a massive tract of land in the mid-west that is the greatest natural wind channel in the country and is not tossing a ton of dough pushing wind power (he won't put wind stations on his Texas ranch however)

GE, who spends more on lobbying than the ENTIRE oil industry combined is massively into wind and solar. Much of the alternative energy assets owned by ENRON were picked up for a song by GE and they are pushing the agenda hard, including on their network, NBC.

Much of this "green" stuff is of marginal benefit and much of the downstream effects of these initiatives have not been fully disclosed by the government. A couple of examples are the solid waste issues associated with car batterys, the fact that electric cars have a significantly shorter lifespan than traditional cars, the fact that in many states, notably California, the existing power grid of modern power plants will not be able to sustain the massive power drain of a significant number of electric cars and the older, less environmentally sound plants will have to be turned on line to support the drain, causing more damage than the gas powered cars will create.

I'm all for saving the environment, lets get it down to sound economics and science and get the politics and corruption out of it. Wishfull thinking, I know.

Bottom-line is that your bill is going up to subsidize alternative power sources which you currently do not utilize. They are less efficient and need to be subsidized or the private firms who are providing the power lose money.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 07:31 PM
link   
Wind and solar do practically nothing of benefit yet billions are being poured into it right now. Here in Ontario, the government brought in the Green Energy Act which pays 8X the price for this "wonderful" inefficient energy.

This piece of legislation stripped the ability of local governments or citizens to question or complain. The Minister of Energy, George Smitherman, promised this would only raise our electricity bill 1%. Less than a month later, a 24% hike (over 2 years) on our delivery charges is now going through. Total, bald-faced con job.

There is some big money being made here, almost ALL subsidized by the taxpayer. The politicians love it because they get lots of vote if they look green.

The same thing is going on not just here and the States but all over the world. Enron started this scam and the gullible public is being fleeced big time.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 07:40 PM
link   
Search under "Cap and Trade". In our June issue of the publication we get from our electric co-op, it had charts that showed the rate increases if cap and trade passes. Anywhere from 19% to 48% depending on what the credits auction off for. They start at $20 and go up to $50.

It's a money-making scheme, pure and simple.



posted on Aug, 29 2009 @ 08:38 PM
link   
reply to post by truskeptic
 




" What if they go green just to make more money yet don't actually go green. I see little evidence of wind mills or solar panels in my area.
I heard that KCPL 's green effort is to buy more coal? Coal is not a clean burning fuel, is it?


I think this Go Green is to "Demand More Green" as in money. I had to laugh when I read your utility company's answer to going green was to buy more coal. Was not that something they would normally do even if this "Go Green" movement did not exist? So why charge more for business as usual? Yes they have technology that is cheap and can cleanly utilize coal but will they use it? Probably not because they know the inside joke, Go Green means charge more.

[edit on 29-8-2009 by Chai_An]



posted on Aug, 29 2009 @ 08:48 PM
link   
reply to post by dreamseeker
 


'Going green' has mostly to do with governmental control over you and me and every other consumer in America, and minimally about reducing the global killing pollutant, CO2. You know it, the gas you and I and every other animal on Earth expels with every breath we take.

The Democrats are on a power trip, and are trying to gain control over every aspect of your life. Just wait until they mandate putting those 'smart plugs' in your home, and are able to turn off your appliances, lights, heating, and cooling at will remotely.



posted on Aug, 29 2009 @ 09:22 PM
link   
If I had a magic button that would make all cars get 100 mile to the gallon to help save gas do you know what would happen over night? Gas would jump to $10 a gallon if not more over night. When gas companies and power comanies sell less they rasie the price to off set the loss. They will not lose a cent. You can not save money by saving gas or power. You only cut the amount gas and power you use but there is no money savings. In fact you may end up paying more.

[edit on 8/29/2009 by fixer1967]



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 11:02 AM
link   
reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II
 


I used to buy into the whole going green mentality. While I am for keeping the earth clean, not polluting with chemicals or throwing trash into the environment there has to be a stopping point.
Sometimes there can be too much of a good thing. All our green efforts are not going to pay off if we can't even afford them. If we can barely pit food on our table then how can we jusify something so extravegent?



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 11:05 AM
link   
hmmm... that sounds odd because I know many people who got solar panels installed... which was a little costly for the installation of course, but now they do not have an electricity bill so they are really saving money in the long run.

for most green things... it should never cost more money... the closer to nature and the environment something is, the less it should cost.

at least you would think so.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 11:09 AM
link   
if you really want to save money, move to the country and get a place that has a well system for water, and wind power or solar power for electricity.

thatll save you a LOT of money... but you have to be willing to move to a place where you can have that. So the decision is yours, really. Live in a place where utilities are higher, or move somewhere else where they arent. You cant really blame anyone else but yourself, if you arent doing anything to change it. If its too much money for you, just move out



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 11:30 AM
link   
It will only be 'green' when the coal & gas fired generators can be shut down.

What happens when the wind stops or the sun goes down or it gets cloudy?

Are you willing to sit in the dark while the generators start up and get online?

Those generators keeps running. The only savings is the fuel saved running at idle instead of running under load.



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 11:33 AM
link   
wind and sun dont just stop. Even when it is cloudy, sun still shines through and is effective for solar power. It doesnt have to be a perfectly sunny and cloudless day for solar power to work... It is also regardless when the sun goes down because solar power contains all the energy that was made throughout the day, and stores it so it is still effective at night

and wind power has been going on for centuries. I am not sure why it would suddenly stop working.. so i cannot really see your argument.

[edit on 31-8-2009 by calihan_12]



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 11:39 AM
link   
Funny, when going through Palm Springs, midday, in the summer, only 1/2 of the egg beaters are working.

Solar is not 100% efficient. Cloudy days cause less output in the cells.

The sun does stop at night as far as those in the dark are concerned or are you figuring a world-wide intertie?



posted on Aug, 31 2009 @ 06:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by wookiee
Funny, when going through Palm Springs, midday, in the summer, only 1/2 of the egg beaters are working.

Peculiar to say the least.



Solar is not 100% efficient. Cloudy days cause less output in the cells.

The sun does stop at night as far as those in the dark are concerned or are you figuring a world-wide intertie?


That's correct it is not 100% especially if you get them from the usual sources according to a salesperson.

Some years ago (during the time of the Enron scandal) I went to an expo and one of the salespeople for solar panels told me if I want truly efficient solar panels so I could be self sustaining I would need to make my own or buy them off market. I asked him why. He said the government have their own requirements for the manufacture of these panels and the manufacturer had to meet those requirements not exceed them. I said that his comment made no sense to me, he nodded and said it's about big business making sure you remain dependent on them for your energy.

He went on to tell me how if one was to be self efficient they would need a solar system that self powered, meaning it had dual batteries that sustained the household energy needs at night. He even said that the panels can be so efficient that cloudy or short winter days weren't a hinderance for them to supply your energy needs.






[edit on 31-8-2009 by Chai_An]



posted on Sep, 1 2009 @ 10:51 AM
link   
reply to post by calihan_12
 


That is not the case I can not afford to move to the country. I live in the city and it is so much easier to find a place to rent. I pretty much have to go wherever they will take me with my low income, poor credit; (which I am working on); and being a full time college student. I would like to move to the country someday but not too far from the city. There are not a lot of rentals in the country and it isn't really that much cheaper.
In the city I pay $579 for a one bedroom and in the country it would be $500.

[edit on 1-9-2009 by dreamseeker]



new topics

top topics



 
1

log in

join