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Here's the commercial that ABC, NBC won't air.

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posted on Aug, 29 2009 @ 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by Alxandro
reply to post by logican
 



You predict vets will take the place of doctors and why? Based on what?


Taking the place doctors is not what I stated.
My point is if there is a shortage of doctors due to Obama opening the flood gates with new patients, we won't have time to wait for new doctors to get fully trained. There will be a shortage of doctors and this is where vets will come in to help lighten the load until A) more medical students become official and B) until more foreign doctors come in from abroad to also help out.
My point is if there is a shortage of doctors due to Obama opening the flood gates with new patients, we won't have time to wait for new doctors to get fully trained.

I don't understand this logic.

Where are all of these sick people now? Why are they suddenly going to get sick because they have health care?

If you think there are people out there that don't have health care and are sitting around just waiting to get better or die you are mistaken.

Spend any night but especially on a weekend in your local ER and see what you find.

We treat more headaches, blisters, cuts and scrapes then you can image in the ER on a daily basis and over half of them have no insurance and we have no hope of reimbursement.

This video is the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen and a complete insult to anyone that has the ability of critical thinking.

Just because they say it doesn't make it so.




posted on Aug, 29 2009 @ 11:02 PM
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Originally posted by mikerussellus
reply to post by suicydking
 


Look at it this way.

I have a pie and everyone gets a piece.

All of a sudden, I have 10 more people who want pie.

Everyone still gets a slice, it's just that the slices are smaller now.

For everyone.

Yeah, everyone has pie now. Just tiny pieces.



See Mike, why are you equating this issue with pie?


I mean at the end of the day, Obama might just drop the public option all together...
Then where does the argument go???

It does not seem like there is any fluidity in opposition, only a great deal of imagination. What are you guys going to go after if the public option is squashed?
After this great hike you guys will not be in a good position to throw another log on the fire cause it starts to look like POLITICS not policy.

Give me your opinion Mike



posted on Aug, 29 2009 @ 11:29 PM
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I don't believe that we should have the government running our healthcare system. Medicare, Medicade, Social Security(which we all are supposed to get when we retire?-huh, what do you mean it's all almost gone????-then why the hell am I still paying into it????)-what a paradox!! They federal government has proven that they can't manage the pre listed already. Don't let them take control of health care, in the end everyone will be extremely disappointed. Canada, Great Britain, a lot of complaints come from these countries about their government health care. I'm against Obama's current health care reform plan.



posted on Aug, 29 2009 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by SpiritoftheNightSky
 





Where are all of these sick people now? Why are they suddenly going to get sick because they have health care?


Oh they're out there. I know this middle aged lady who has to get all of her teeth, and get dentures, because she never got her teeth fixed. She doesn't have dental/health care. But you can bet that if she all of the sudden had it, she'd be at the office first thing. My relatives know this teacher that came to the United States from the middle east. Once here he developed a bad tooth in his jaw. It became infected but he never had it taken care of because he didn't have health care or the money to get it done. It almost cost him his life. People will not take care of themselves when they don't have the means to. Not that they don't want to, but how do you go to a doctor to be taken care of when you don't have the means?!?!



posted on Aug, 29 2009 @ 11:51 PM
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(Sorry, that should be all of her teeth pulled.)



posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 09:35 AM
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reply to post by mental modulator
 

When you have finite rescources and an increase in demand, you will have to ration in order to meet EVERY demand.

I can't put it any simpler than that.

And the idea that Obama won't go with the public option is bullpoop. They'll just call it co-ops, or sunshine up my #, but in the end, it'll mean the same thing.



posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by SpiritoftheNightSky

Originally posted by Alxandro
reply to post by logican
 



You predict vets will take the place of doctors and why? Based on what?


Taking the place doctors is not what I stated.
My point is if there is a shortage of doctors due to Obama opening the flood gates with new patients, we won't have time to wait for new doctors to get fully trained. There will be a shortage of doctors and this is where vets will come in to help lighten the load until A) more medical students become official and B) until more foreign doctors come in from abroad to also help out.
My point is if there is a shortage of doctors due to Obama opening the flood gates with new patients, we won't have time to wait for new doctors to get fully trained.

I don't understand this logic.

Where are all of these sick people now? Why are they suddenly going to get sick because they have health care?

If you think there are people out there that don't have health care and are sitting around just waiting to get better or die you are mistaken.

Spend any night but especially on a weekend in your local ER and see what you find.

We treat more headaches, blisters, cuts and scrapes then you can image in the ER on a daily basis and over half of them have no insurance and we have no hope of reimbursement.

This video is the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen and a complete insult to anyone that has the ability of critical thinking.

Just because they say it doesn't make it so.



The 50 million are illegal aliens

second line



posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by skyeyes
 


If these people exist then their numbers are small if they don't go for help just because they can't pay for it.

The majority don't care it they can pay for it or not. They know that they can't be turned away from the ER so they come. And yes we get the toothaches, the bug bites, the fevers, the upset stomachs and a lot of the hangovers.

We get everything that should be seen the MD office but isn't because they MD can reject them without payment. The ER can't.



posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by SANTA CLAWS
 


Then it makes less sense because they are already being cared for here. Worse yet they are living in grand style in our hospitals because the hospitals can't kick them out or even send them back to their native country for fear of a long and expensive law suit.

So if an American receives care in the hospital and has no home to go to it is too bad. Your butt goes back into the street but an illegal alien gets to stay in the hospital like it is a hotel for years for free.

Where is the outrage about this?



posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by SpiritoftheNightSky
 




Where are all of these sick people now? Why are they suddenly going to get sick because they have health care?

If you think there are people out there that don't have health care and are sitting around just waiting to get better or die you are mistaken.

Spend any night but especially on a weekend in your local ER and see what you find.

We treat more headaches, blisters, cuts and scrapes then you can image in the ER on a daily basis and over half of them have no insurance and we have no hope of reimbursement.



You are not the first that has mentioned the stuff that goes on in ER.
These people go there now because they know they can while many more do not know they can get threated. But once the flood gates are opened, EVERYONE will then know if they get a cut just down to the local hospital and wait to be seen.

You will be then be asked to carry on a heavier workload.



posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 10:17 AM
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It seems like the tread really just went full circle over the course of page 9. It apparently just comes down to this:

There are people who require medical care who aren't getting it. Some of you feel that you are more entitled to medical care then they are. The rest of us feel that medical care is a basic human need that everyone is entitled to, regardless of a loss of convenience.

I hate to say it that way, but that's what this last page of posts has clearly demonstrated.



posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by Alxandro
reply to post by SpiritoftheNightSky
 





You are not the first that has mentioned the stuff that goes on in ER.
These people go there now because they know they can while many more do not know they can get threated. But once the flood gates are opened, EVERYONE will then know if they get a cut just down to the local hospital and wait to be seen.

You will be then be asked to carry on a heavier workload.



I don't think that there are that many people that don't know that they can be treated in and ER. You don't give Americans enough credit. If illegal aliens who can't even speak English know it and some use it the moment they cross the border or are off the boat, I think that Americans born and raised know it as well.

It is no secret that ERs can't turn you away. Heck they even have a TV program about it don't they?




[edit on 30-8-2009 by SpiritoftheNightSky]

[edit on 30-8-2009 by SpiritoftheNightSky]

Having trouble with formatting


[edit on 30-8-2009 by SpiritoftheNightSky]



posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by suicydking
It seems like the tread really just went full circle over the course of page 9. It apparently just comes down to this:

There are people who require medical care who aren't getting it. Some of you feel that you are more entitled to medical care then they are. The rest of us feel that medical care is a basic human need that everyone is entitled to, regardless of a loss of convenience.

I hate to say it that way, but that's what this last page of posts has clearly demonstrated.


Agreed. Some people think that healthcare is a right. Others think of it as a commodity to purchase or not.

I personally think that healthcare is not a right. Is driving a right? Housing a right? Eating, a right?

Last night someone, somewhere, had prime rib, a nice wine, and a good desert. I didn't. I had a sandwich.

Is that fair? Don't I deserve a prime rib as well? What did they do to get that nice meal that I didn't do? I work, but don't make as much as those that can have prime rib for dinner every night. Is it fair? Should those that make enough to have prime rib be punished because they worked harder than me?

Should the government step in, tell those eating prime rib, that it is wrong because people like me had a sandwich instead? Should the government take that persons prime rib, and give it to me, just because I don't have any? Should the government make everyone have prime rib, but just charge those that can afford it?

I didn't earn enough for a prime rib dinner. But that is my fault. If I really want that, I will have to work for it.



posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 10:42 AM
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reply to post by mikerussellus
 


When people compare heath to a luxury, I'm officially done debating.

Health care is not a pie, it's not a dinner at a fancy restaurant, and it sure as hell should not be something that requires the acquisition of wealth in the nation that is supposed to be the leader of the free world.

Best of health & happiness to you and yours, regardless of your politics. I'm out of here.



posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by suicydking
reply to post by mikerussellus
 


When people compare heath to a luxury, I'm officially done debating.

Health care is not a pie, it's not a dinner at a fancy restaurant, and it sure as hell should not be something that requires the acquisition of wealth in the nation that is supposed to be the leader of the free world.

Best of health & happiness to you and yours, regardless of your politics. I'm out of here.



I'm sorry you fail to see the analogy. But being practical about healthcare is the only way any of us are going to see any beneficial outcome.

-cheers-

[edit on 30-8-2009 by mikerussellus]



posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by suicydking
reply to post by mikerussellus
 


When people compare heath to a luxury, I'm officially done debating.

Health care is not a pie, it's not a dinner at a fancy restaurant, and it sure as hell should not be something that requires the acquisition of wealth in the nation that is supposed to be the leader of the free world.

Best of health & happiness to you and yours, regardless of your politics. I'm out of here.



I understand your frustration. This mindset is the result of over half a century of conditioning. Our society is so lost that we don’t realize that we are lost nor do we remember what we have lost.

We have forgotten the time when health insurance did not exist. We have forgotten the time when neighbors tended each other’s fields when one was laid low. We have forgotten what made us Americans and what made us strong.

We have become automatons believing all the corporate rhetoric. We are told what we should look like, what we should wear, how we should talk and what we should desire. We are told what is right and what is wrong and if you fall short of these expectations it is rarely your fault; it is someone else’s and only your fault if you can’t find someone to blame.

It is what allowed the “Me” generation to blossom and what has neighbor killing neighbor. We are paying for healthcare for those that can’t afford it and we always will.

It is like that piece of lettuce between your teeth after eating the salad. You don’t know it is there until someone points it out to you and then you have to either pick it out or swallow it. Either way the piece that became the issue is just a remnant.

You are right. You can not debate with someone that is so conditioned that they can no longer see or hear past their programming but there are some that appreciate another’s ideas, beliefs and insights. So continue to express yourself.

I learn more from people that don’t agree with me than I do from those that do. Not saying you are going to change my mind but stranger things are possible.



posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by SpiritoftheNightSky
 


Thanks. I'll be gone for the day anyhow, but I'll come back tomorrow and see what's happening.

I enjoy debating with open minded people. i like to have my ideas challenged. It forces me and my ideas to evolve and grow.

There are some few fundamental things I just won't bend on, though. The idea that health care is a basic human need that should be provided for by any means necessary is one of them. If people want to debate the pros and cons of this health care reform bill, that's one thing. To say that some people don't deserve to get to see a doctor is quite another.



posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by suicydking
 


Who may I ask has stated that? You feel free to espouse universal healthcare, those more prgmatic try to look at the cost.
How in the devil are you going to pay for this unlimited, free care to everyone? How are you going to supply the manpower, materials, space needed for this utopian dreamland?

You're like my wife. Let's buy this, let's but that.

I'm the one looking at the price tags going, "nope, can't afford it, nope can't afford that. . . "



posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by mikerussellus

Agreed. Some people think that healthcare is a right. Others think of it as a commodity to purchase or not.

I personally think that healthcare is not a right. Is driving a right? Housing a right? Eating, a right?


If the health of a nation - look at Ethiopia - is not as good as it can be, how can it thrive - look at Ethiopia.

Driving being a right vs a privilege is an argument where I tend to lean towards "a right." Sounds crazy - until you realize how a nation would fall rather quickly without drivers. All things that become locally available depend upon drivers.

Many people MUST commute by means of personal transport - ie the infrastructure has not eliminated the need for cars. If you can't drive, you can't get to work - the cascading effect is ruinous.

Housing? Without shelter, many would die. We/you don't live in a self-sustaining rainforest tribe so - yeah/ya - your housing ultimately becomes a right.

Eating? Same thing - you don't eat, you die.

If you can't afford to eat, you should die right? If you can't afford housing - "f--k-y'a; you freeze!" Right?


Originally posted by mikerussellus

Last night someone, somewhere, had prime rib, a nice wine, and a good desert. I didn't. I had a sandwich.

Is that fair? Don't I deserve a prime rib as well? What did they do to get that nice meal that I didn't do? I work, but don't make as much as those that can have prime rib for dinner every night. Is it fair? Should those that make enough to have prime rib be punished because they worked harder than me?

Should the government step in, tell those eating prime rib, that it is wrong because people like me had a sandwich instead? Should the government take that persons prime rib, and give it to me, just because I don't have any? Should the government make everyone have prime rib, but just charge those that can afford it?

I didn't earn enough for a prime rib dinner. But that is my fault. If I really want that, I will have to work for it.


You may not realize - even though your comment clearly shows - that you have become a "slave pawn" for the elite - "big machine."

The prime rib dinner eater is the Walmart exec. The Enron exec. The Bre-X creator.

The Walmart exec works with his other wealthy execs to continue displacing the American worker by seeking-out impoverished nations - impoverished with regards to the condition of their laborers - to manufacture for pennies-on-the-dollar products the American needs.

The American loves the "good deals" but doesn't really see the clear picture.

The aging man with two 20-something models enjoying their prime-rib and lobster at the table across from the Walmart exec obtained his wealth by gambling.

However this gambler never loses. He gambles by looking at charts and taking phone calls that tell him that when the current trend hits 158.98 it will retrace 61.8 % over the next week.

The old man - who couldn't get a "piece" or a $50 steak if he didn't have billions - makes a phone call and jumps on a jet to The Turks and Caicos for a month on the beach with his saline-breasted leech-whores.

All because he cheats the system - doesn't lift a finger to produce, ship, obtain, develop or provide in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER anything of use to his society.

This may be why you can't afford prime rib and a FEW others can.

SpiritoftheNightSky clearly explained this deterioration of The American Society very well a couple of posts back.

[edit on 30-8-2009 by gtatix]

[edit on 30-8-2009 by gtatix]

[edit on 30-8-2009 by gtatix]

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[edit on 30-8-2009 by gtatix]

[edit on 30-8-2009 by gtatix]



posted on Aug, 30 2009 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by gtatix
 



Who then, gets to pay for all these free rights?

You?

The evil, zombie, satanic rich?

Me?

Tell me, where is all this money going to come from? Where is all this hospital space, hospital staff going to come from? Who will pay their wages? Who will pay the manufacturer to make the materials needed? What will the workers live on who make this stuff?

It's nice and easy to sit in an armchair and espouse free coverage, free housing, free cars, but who will pay for it?

Lets be realists here.



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