UK ID cards will be useless in Europe

Heres an interesting article on the UK ID card scheme:

Despite the fact that the cards are almost in UK citizens’ wallets there is still a lot of work needed to raise awareness about them and their uses, particularly outside the British Isles.
In an interview with the Oldham Evening Chronicle, Lord Brett said that if holders leave the country and try to use the cards as some form of ID they will be met with blank faces and, we presume, Gallic shrugs.
Lord Brett said, “When we do launch it, we want to make sure all our ducks are in a row, it is not just marketing and selling the card to people who want to have it but to make sure first of all that all the countries in Europe will accept it and understand it as a travel document.”
He added that unless this was the case there would be “no day one” for the cards.
Further damning the roll out, Brett said that the Police did not have the right to demand to see them, despite government claims that they will have a use in the fight against terrorism.

rinf.com...

Heres Lord Bretts Info page:

www.theyworkforyou.com...

So the cards are not yet recognised by parts of Europe,but more interestingly,the UK cops will NOT have the right to demand to see any ID card.

Great.So absolutley no bloody point in the ID card then...
Not wanted,not needed,not a good idea all round.

Are the government ever going to realise how bad this ID scheme is?

Absolutely no point in this AT ALL!

Especially as one of the main reasons that is always put forward justifying them is 'the fight against terror'.

Utter nonsense.

Have a look at Page 15 of this:
EUROPOL TE-SAT

It's a terrorism report for 2007 (the most recent report) and shows perpertators of attacks in European countries. UK has 1. France and Spain combined have over 500 incidents. Mostly from separatists.

Kinda blows a huge hole in that Home Office reasoning doesn't it?

reply to post by purehughness


Damn right it does.
Good find!

reply to post by Silcone Synapse


It just makes me wonder whether Spain and France are looking at, or already have ID cards for all citizens? I mean, all of those separatist attacks must amount to something.
Funny how they're almost never given any attention in British news, just a 10 second 'oh by the way'. No, it apparently has to be Islamist attacks. Boooo.

False pretense and control is the name of the game. Look deeper, look from other angles and you may find some things out. It's the Buddhist way!

Too right mate,
If its not some whacko Jihadi its just not news worthy these days.
We are meant to accept the conditioning they present to us,and at the moment that means we have to fear the Al Queada menace.

I will always remember Tony Blair and George Bush,maybe a day or two after 911-they gave a TV conference where Tony said "We must not let the terrorists win by making western governments go totalitarian and destroy everyones civil liberties."(paraphrasing)

Well thats really worked out hasn't it...
I think they knew full well that day that they were about to attempt to use 911 to turn the west into a police state.

Even if the official 911 story was spot on,the likes of Blair and co should hang their heads in shame for how they have exploited the situation,in order to pass laws they would previously never have got away with.
Low lifes indeed.

while it is correct to state that the police do not have the right to demand to see any ID document - reality can be somewhat different

the police do have the power to arrest an individual if they suspect , or CLAIM to suspect that he / she is attempting to provide false details or refuses to give any details AND they suspect or CLAIM to suspect that they have an outstanding arrest warrant against them

its the old ` if you are innocent , why wont you verify your id ? ` ruse

I very much doubt that these cards will become a reality now, well actually they will exist, but they wont be compulsory... It's gonna be one of those throw away issues that the parties can gain real election points saying they will toss the idea out... And how much money Labour has thrown down the drain.

reply to post by purehughness


I understood Spain already had compulsory ID cards? That's why that multiple bomb attack in Madrid faile......... oh

It's very clear that such documents do no more to thwart terrorism than a candy floss stick in a bucket of water does.

The only reason the UK Govt decided to introduce them (and this is just between you and me - no-one else must know) is because they discovered that I don't have any acceptable ID. It's an anti-Essan conspiracy! And it's true - I do not hold a current passport, driving licence, gun licence or even a birth certificate. Therefore the only way the police will ever know if they've caught me is if they force me to buy an ID card. Which I won't be able to do anyway because I won't be able to provide any proof of identity in order to purchase said card .........

[edit on 29-8-2009 by Essan]

Very true Essan,It was always a complete load of baloney that these ID cards would do anything to pevent terrorism-didn't work in Spain as you said,or on 911 either.

my question is how does a uk citizen then identify him/her self in uk and in EU at this moment ?

has anyone cared to research that , seams not.

and while you research that you might want to research what usage a passport, driverlicens, ss card and id card is for.

reply to post by zerbot565


Driving licence or passports are 2 ways to indentify yourself in the UK.
For things like opening bank accounts the above in conjuction with a utility bill or bank statement will be required.
To identify yourself to the cops,any of the above usually do,but are often not needed if you are in your car,as they can just ask your adress and cross check it with the details in the DVLA(driver and vehicle licencing agency),via computer.

You do not have to provide the cops with ID in the UK,although if you refuse to do so it will raise suspicions and make the experience more drawn out and frictional.

reply to post by Silcone Synapse


im still perplexed cause dricers licens is just a drivers licence and passports are only a means of ID at boarder stations ?

i mean just be cause they accept them dosent mean that they are by law a means of id ?

Estonia has an ID card. Works pretty well as identification, also can be used in electronic voting, making/signing online bank transfers, querying your personal data from goverment/company/public services (services available for ID: www.id.ee... , intro page: www.id.ee...)

I really can't imagine life without this card. But this is as far as i would go with personal ID - I wouldn't accept any implantable chips as IDs..

reply to post by zerbot565


Hmmm not sure what is considered "legal" ID,although I would guess that any of the above mentioned are legal,provided they are not fake of course-Interstingly there is not much info on what is "legal" ID-the word "accepted" is often used though when dealing with banks/DVLA police etc.

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reply to post by inxion

OP by inxionEstonia has an ID card. Works pretty well as identification, also can be used in electronic voting, making/signing online bank transfers, querying your personal data from goverment/company/public services

Hmm electronic voting machines I do not like the sound of,although I'm sure the government would love that in the UK .
Remeber the Diebold scandals in the USA?

whatreallyhappened.com...

And using the cards for bank transfers etc-they UK gov would love that too-so convienient for thier database of all citizens movements,habits and psychological profiles.

Do they have such a database in Estonia?

Originally posted by zerbot565
my question is how does a uk citizen then identify him/her self in uk and in EU at this moment ?

I cant. I have no acceptable ID

Even though my name and address are a matter of public record because Im a Trustee of a registered charity.

I rather like it that way

no matter what country you belong to id cards are worthless. when i went to canada with a united states id from TEXAS it was like i was a damn criminal. it was easy to cross over to canada but to come back i had to sit at the border and explain with all my proper paperwork i was a us citizen and they still dident want to let me in. i think all paperwork and id cards are worthless. i think they should just make a universal card or stay wit the old passports.