Polls show atheists on the rise in America, page 7

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reply posted on 30-8-2009 @ 12:06 PM by Stylez

Originally posted by unityemissions

Originally posted by jvm222
i'm not religious at all but atheists are as ignorant and blind as fundamentalists. They are just like religion, never finding a balance to their reasoning and thus chasing their tail into the abyss!

How right you are

Atheists are as close-minded as religious nuts. Both choose to believe they know it all, and are unable to see we know so very little.

The open-minded are entirely undecided. I have personal spiritual beliefs, but choose to accept the possibility that they are all false. I'm agnostic.

So am I to assume that we are ALL agnostic? It would seem so if accepting the possibility our belief is false. That applys to everyone but at least Religion isn't saying its a "scientific fact" blah blah blah . We realize we are finite and the possibility also that we may be right. If being ambivalent is open minded, than we wouldn't have much going for us in ANY direction what so ever but if you have to re-define open minded to mean agnostic just so you can be proud of it, Ill ask again,,

Of what?

reply posted on 30-8-2009 @ 12:15 PM by Spiramirabilis

reply to post by Stylez

Shall I alert?

well - seems like you're hot to push some kind of button - but, no - the mods really wouldn't appreciate that - I'm almost certain of it

Or is that something you are waiting for when I respond to your off topic remarks? What is the point of saying its off topic letting us all know you are aware of that, yet rather than change the direction, you post the infractionary post anyway. I think it is on topic as I believe atheists blur the distinctions between the two atheist and agnostic to add to there numbers.

no - go back to the beginning - reread the OP - that is the topic

this never ending bickering among the factions - the farther out we go - the more off topic we get

this is what I mean

which is why - I'm not responding to the rest of this post - though I can see you put a great deal of time and thought into it

we're not here to solve the problem of what's wrong with the theists/atheists/agnostics

we're here to discuss why it may or may not be significant that atheists are gathering together - to be their free and happy atheist selves

do you see?

what do you have to say on that subject - anyhow?

also - CAN you say it without slipping into cattiness?

let's see...shall we?

[edit on 8/30/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

reply posted on 30-8-2009 @ 12:18 PM by unityemissions

reply to post by Stylez

I think you're a bit confused. Atheists and a lot of religious people take their claim as an absolute. I've yet to meet an atheist who is open to the possibility of a God existing. If they were, they would no longer be atheist..am I mistaken here?

reply posted on 30-8-2009 @ 12:22 PM by Stylez

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
nice try compadre

you challenged your own masculinity earlier on - several times over

it's all for sport now

Care to point out where i was talking tough to myself?

Its all sport? So it seems you are that way with philosophy afterall

I'm thinking you are not old enough to engage me in civil discussions now. - Stylez

is that what you're thinking? funny - because that's the general direction my thinking was heading as well :-) - Spiramirabilis

Splendid! So we both agree you are too young to have a civil discussion.

And by the way, I already said exactly what dawkins said to you, I only added him to let you know that prominent atheists think that too. capeche?

which is how I know you're not quite as brave as you pretend

Dude WTF get your head on straight do you think I'm NOT talking DIRECTLY to you NOW? How about the last several posts? Was that direct enough? What am I to expect from you ? that you're gonna kick my ass?/

HA HA you have the distinction of being the first one to make my ignore list. Rather than answer ANY of my questions you just keep on making more innuendos and act like a child. I agree this HAS got off topic but you refuse to discuss the topic and would rather talk about my lack of "courage" because YOURS was called into question for your agnosticism NOT your machismo.

Grow up .

Dawkins doesn't need the advertising

No but you needed the professors definition

we're in agreement on some things already - but it seems we each have different levels of testosterone fueling our approach

Speak for yourself guy, inspite of your attempts to prove yourself brave to someone on the internet ( sheesh ain't that courageous) you haven't even asked me if I am a woman or a man or does that even matter to you once you go off?

Hope all your dreams come true but for now, I'm done with you, this is getting nowehere.

reply posted on 30-8-2009 @ 12:25 PM by Stylez

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by Stylez

I think you're a bit confused. Atheists and a lot of religious people take their claim as an absolute. I've yet to meet an atheist who is open to the possibility of a God existing. If they were, they would no longer be atheist..am I mistaken here?

Tell that to damien, he is the one confusing the two and thanks for agreeing inspite of the sort of sly way it was done.

Oh you didnt answer the part about the ambivalence being synonymous with open mindedness

reply posted on 30-8-2009 @ 12:30 PM by Spiramirabilis

reply to post by Stylez

...you haven't even asked me if I am a woman or a man or does that even matter to you once you go off?

you'll never ever see this now - I know

but - that was fun

:-)

[edit on 8/30/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

reply posted on 30-8-2009 @ 01:39 PM by unityemissions

reply to post by Stylez

I don't think they are synonymous, but can see how someone would think so. Ambivalence is having equal opposing sides towards an object, person, or idea.

What I think being open minded can be (and as I describe it above) is less of a contradiction/opposition, and more of a clarity/integration. I'm stating that this seems to work for me, but may not be correct, or appropriate for others.

No contradiction their. Just a lack of judgment.

reply posted on 30-8-2009 @ 04:33 PM by makinho21

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

Exactly.
Who are they to determine that one stance or the other is more worthwhile.
Yes they can think that, put to bring it up here as an argument, that's actually pretty dumb.

They have decided that themselves.
I have decided the flying spaghetti monster lives in my basement.

If you potentially have valid reasons why to side with one faction or another, then taking that stance is quite logical, and quite "honest" no?

I am just here to discuss what those reasons would be, and if they extend any further than personal determination.

reply posted on 30-8-2009 @ 04:46 PM by Spiramirabilis

reply to post by makinho21

I am just here to discuss what those reasons would be, and if they extend any further than personal determination.

nice

I'm always up for the argument - I love the exchange of ideas

it means more than anything to me to hear what people think - how they think - why they think what they think

but I've never understood trying to force ideas - you can't

forget about you shouldn't - you just can't

people have to get where they're going when and how they get there I think

if they can do that honestly - and without any bloodshed - real or pixelated - even better

every time you mention the Spaghetti monster...cracks me up

I know what I''m having for dinner tonight anyway

:-)

reply posted on 30-8-2009 @ 06:15 PM by makinho21

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

haha I suppose it's a little overdone by now, but it does make a pretty solid parallel I feel.

And yes, discussion for the sake of learning, growth, and understanding is much more honest than discussion for the sake of conversion.

Forcing other people to buy into what you think means you already know you are right and they are wrong.
I don't think Atheists operate in this manner (I'm sure a few do, but I can't speak for every person here), however, this is exactly what religious faiths do.

"Preaching"? I mean come on...
That is the most blatant attempt at forceful belief out there.

I know I enter any religious conversation with certain bias already in place, and I think it would be completely inhuman to not have that.
However, I am certainly willing to admit I am mistaken or I got something wrong. It doesn't really make a big difference to me.

I feel, though, with religious people, for them to come to the table and see they (potentially) were wrong about something, or mislead, is entirely more devastating to their existence, which is why most do not allow for such a possibility.

[edit on 30-8-2009 by makinho21]

reply posted on 30-8-2009 @ 10:05 PM by badmedia

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
I'm not sure whether or not I believe the idea exists

I'm a complete agnostic

among other things

but I feel pretty good about being in the superior position I guess

all of this is off topic though

The idea exists for pretty much everyone. That idea will vary from person to person, but anyone who even thinks about if god may or may not be real has to have the idea, otherwise they are unable to do such a thing.

Agnostics have the idea too. I think it is "superior" only because it is honest and hasn't crossed the line of basing a belief in 1 way or another on it. As such, the agnostic has not accepted that which put the idea in them to begin with. When someone crosses that line and decided "yes or no", then they are accepting that which put the idea in their head.

So the idea is there no matter what. Which is why it is a falsehood for an atheist to say they have a "lack of belief". They only say that because they think it makes them look more open minded and such. But it is a lie, they do have beliefs.

Now, we can sit around and debunk/debate the things people say about god all day long. And if we do that, then it will be the Christians and other religious people who start hating on me, rather than the atheists. Because religious people say alot of wrong and screwed up things, which do not at all point towards divinity. Like the entire concept of an eternal hell - dumb dumb dumb. It has no purpose, and no parent would ever do such a thing to their child etc. You punish to teach a lesson, if you punished them and never stopped, then you are just a bad parent and just like inflicting pain etc.

Religion is anti-god. Christianity is the anti-Christ religion. They are nothing like Jesus etc. In that respect, atheism is a step ahead of theism. But, the atheist gets caught on the other side of the coin, into the dualism. Just another box, another system of mind control.

I may not get many fans by calling out both atheists and theists, but as scarce as truth is - the supply has always been in excess of the demand(Josh Billings quote).

[edit on 8/30/2009 by badmedia]

reply posted on 31-8-2009 @ 02:19 PM by Stylez

Originally posted by badmedia
Like the entire concept of an eternal hell - dumb dumb dumb. It has no purpose, and no parent would ever do such a thing to their child etc. You punish to teach a lesson, if you punished them and never stopped, then you are just a bad parent and just like inflicting pain etc.

Religion is anti-god. Christianity is the anti-Christ religion. They are nothing like Jesus etc. In that respect, atheism is a step ahead of theism. But, the atheist gets caught on the other side of the coin, into the dualism. Just another box, another system of mind control.

I may not get many fans by calling out both atheists and theists, but as scarce as truth is - the supply has always been in excess of the demand(Josh Billings quote).

[edit on 8/30/2009 by badmedia]

Just what DOES God have to say about hell? What is your stable datum for truth? Where are you getting it

reply posted on 31-8-2009 @ 10:44 PM by badmedia

reply to post by Stylez

Kind of a broad question, but I'll attempt an answer.

It's all just a lesson to teach you really. And so think of it as being like a stove eye. If you touch that stove eye when it is on, it will burn you. If you learn your lesson from that - you do not touch the stove eye again. However, if you refuse to accept the lesson and you keep on touching that stove eye it will continue to burn you.

As you make choices, the universe automatically adjusts to the lessons you needed. If you touch the stove, you are getting burnt. If you don't touch the stove, then you don't. Your choice brings about the reality there.

In order for hell to be eternal, it would be the equivalent of you just refusing to remove your finger from the stove eye for eternity. Hell is basically earth if you(we) make it into that.

And there is really no belief system or religion needed to understand this. You can see it applied to the world around you all the time.

To say there is an eternal hell is to say that the father would create something and then purposely torture it forever. If things are not teaching a lesson like on earth, then it has no real purpose.

What parent punishes their child forever? They don't, it has no purpose. They punish their children because they love them and want them to learn from their lessons. If you punish them forever, then no chance to learn.

Now, in terms of after death and the spirit. All things of the father will eventually return to the father. By that, I am not talking physical, but in terms of souls/spirit. Because in the end, all that is the father. At that point, people as individuals(a soul) cease to exist and they are absorbed back into the father.

But between here and that and such, I do not know/can not say. Meaning, all things are possible and if I am to say 1 thing, or even a few things I am by default wrong. However, we can talk about what is possible and what isn't such as eternal hell, and in the end all things return to the father.

What happens between now and then - well that is the point.

My source? I am that I am. But it shouldn't matter. If you believe me, then you are just accepting what I say and that would make you foolish. That is to revert back to being part of the problem, and I would rather shut up then help that along. Do not accept, but instead realize you do not know(agnostic) so that you can seek to find out and understand(gnostic). Real knowledge is understanding.

Why listen to someone else describe what the ocean is like rather than finding out for yourself?

[edit on 8/31/2009 by badmedia]

reply posted on 1-9-2009 @ 07:15 AM by astronut68

religion is a fairy tale ! science over faith ......yes im an atheist always have been always will be !

reply posted on 1-9-2009 @ 07:44 AM by GenLo

LOL! oh the bigotry and ignorance. discussions like this should really be apart of the agreement that comes when joining this social network. i really do feel that such a discussion not becoming a heated one is far from likely though not impossible. if you want to talk to an atheist one on one just send me a message and i will politely answer, just as long as the question is not stated in such a way to be offensive.

[edit on 1-9-2009 by GenLo]

reply posted on 2-9-2009 @ 04:57 PM by Bombeni

"Poll shows atheists on the rise...." well not if the Hairy Krishnas have anything to do with it.

YouTube Link

Just a little day brightener fer you guys.

reply posted on 4-9-2009 @ 03:47 PM by Excitable_Boy

Atheists on the rise? This is funny. Why would anyone pay for a poll to learn this information? Who's to say if this information is accurate or propaganda? What ever happened to Freedom of Religion?

Maybe Atheists are on the rise because most religions are pathetic. Christianity being the number one on that list, btw.

reply posted on 9-9-2009 @ 12:56 AM by cormag

wow, atheism on the rise!? Can't blame the people for abandoning their faith in a GOD. I mean, look at the major religions on earth. Islam, makes their followers become crazy suicidal warriors over small stuff, Judaism works their people to become successful without a promise of life after death and Christianity/ Catholicism( Not perfect examples of good religions) are just as worst as their counter parts. If it was up to me, the world would be full of Buddhist. You don't see them starting any problems world wide now do you? I honestly must say this religion is the most peaceful one i ever researched and i'm a Catholic!! I usually tell people who aren't Catholic your religion sucks eggs cause your religion didn't have complete control of Kingdoms, started wars, Crusades and boot leg taxes over bull crap. And then they'll counter with "and your proud of this?" I of course say YES!!!!

reply posted on 9-9-2009 @ 09:14 AM by Bombeni

Originally posted by cormag
wow, atheism on the rise!? Can't blame the people for abandoning their faith in a GOD. I mean, look at the major religions on earth. Islam, makes their followers become crazy suicidal warriors over small stuff, Judaism works their people to become successful without a promise of life after death and Christianity/ Catholicism( Not perfect examples of good religions) are just as worst as their counter parts. If it was up to me, the world would be full of Buddhist. You don't see them starting any problems world wide now do you? I honestly must say this religion is the most peaceful one i ever researched and i'm a Catholic!! I usually tell people who aren't Catholic your religion sucks eggs cause your religion didn't have complete control of Kingdoms, started wars, Crusades and boot leg taxes over bull crap. And then they'll counter with "and your proud of this?" I of course say YES!!!!