Christianity conversion FOR ALL

Mainstream for certain Denominations I would say. They think they can guilt trip you into believing by dooming you to a fiery hell..It's almost funny, because that is nothing close to how Christ was.

Jesus loved everyone, from Kings, to prostitutes, to tax collectors, to Pharisees, and Saducees. It didn't matter what they said about him or did to him. He loved them all unconditionally, so much that he was willing to die. There is no greater love.

That is what Christianity is all about. Loving everyone unconditionally regardless or religion, race, sexual orientation, etc.

Many of the modern Christians aren't really Christian at all. Sure they will argue and call you a sinner for calling them out, but they are mistaken. It's just like anything else mainstream, it's perverted from its' true form and used for power and greed.

I love everyone, from Christians, wannabe Christians, Atheist, Muslim, Homosexua, and on and on.

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by mamabeth

 

Which I take to mean that you have the same goal as those of the Islamic extremist movement, one world religion. Well, onward Christian Soldier! But in the battle for my soul, you are fighting an unwinable battle. Give up while you're still behind!

I wouldn't chop your head off.As for your soul,that's between you and God.
All I can do,is show you how you can be saved.I never give up,or shut up,
I am a very stubborn woman.I also know when I'm wasting my time,Bye!

Originally posted by thomasc83
Mainstream for certain Denominations I would say. They think they can guilt trip you into believing by dooming you to a fiery hell..It's almost funny, because that is nothing close to how Christ was.

Jesus loved everyone, from Kings, to prostitutes, to tax collectors, to Pharisees, and Saducees. It didn't matter what they said about him or did to him. He loved them all unconditionally, so much that he was willing to die. There is no greater love.

That is what Christianity is all about. Loving everyone unconditionally regardless or religion, race, sexual orientation, etc.

Many of the modern Christians aren't really Christian at all. Sure they will argue and call you a sinner for calling them out, but they are mistaken. It's just like anything else mainstream, it's perverted from its' true form and used for power and greed.

I love everyone, from Christians, wannabe Christians, Atheist, Muslim, Homosexua, and on and on.

When people try to tell you about eternity in hell, they do it out of concern. Can you understand the concept behind that? There is a hell and you are right, Jesus desires that no one should enter it, but He Himself had to enter it in order to take the punishment of the world's sins. And yes Jesus taught the most wonderful things ever recorded, but He also warned of hell:

Jesus says in Matthew 25:41, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels."

In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

reply to post by thomasc83

That is what Christianity is all about. Loving everyone unconditionally regardless or religion, race, sexual orientation, etc.

Christianity is about accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and turning from your sinful ways.

[edit on 1-9-2009 by Totakeke]

[When people try to tell you about eternity in hell, they do it out of concern. Can you understand the concept behind that? There is a hell and you are right, Jesus desires that no one should enter it, but He Himself had to enter it in order to take the punishment of the world's sins. And yes Jesus taught the most wonderful things ever recorded, but He also warned of hell:

Jesus says in Matthew 25:41, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels."

In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."


A big,AMEN on that one.I try to spread the good news and help keep
others from going to hell.We have to pray for those who won't listen.

Do you all knowwho Jesus even was?. He was someone who you wouldn't even notice in a crowd, he was a gentle man that could silence the people against him without even raising his voice, he loved everyone. He didn't need to go on about hellfire and brimstone. He never scared anyone into believing.

The point of being saved isn't to avoid hell. It's not about living forever. The point of finding salvation was to engulf yourself in Jesus' love and continue in that love after you die, in heaven. Jesus never had to preach on the danger of hell to convince people to follow him. If you knew Jesus' love, you would rather burn in hell that to go without it. Hell would be the least of your worries.

Say what you want about your scare tactics. They are not from wisdom, they are just a psychological way of trying to make people Christians. Be an example and love everyone and show them what Jesus truly was.

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by thomasc83

 

That is what Christianity is all about. Loving everyone unconditionally regardless or religion, race, sexual orientation, etc.

Christianity is about accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and turning from your sinful ways.

[edit on 1-9-2009 by Totakeke]

It's about accepting Jesus as your savior and living Christlike. Which means loving everyone. If you do that, then you won't live in sin. Sin results from being anti-Christ like. Selfishness leads to all sin. Selfless nes is Christlike. It's not enough to just say I'm going to change. If you are truly saved, then you will have no need for sin, because you will be surrounded by true love.

Hey Thomas C83 – time to wake up and smell the ‘roasting flesh’ !

Why don’t you do yourself a BIG favour and VERY carefullly study ALL the Greek words placed into the mouth of your ‘Jesus’ (Gk. Iesous Aram. R. Yehoshua bar Yosef) in the (4) canonical Nicene Council approved ‘ Gospels’ and you might see the teaching of this Rebbe of yours a little differently.

Certainly, to judge from the vitriol placed into his mouth in the Greek Gospels, this man DID preach 'fire and brimstone' fairly often, and if every mangled 1st century Greek word is back-translated into Galilean Aramaic, you get some nasty words indeed: see Matt chapter 15:18-25 (a couple of hundred times in English, if that’s all you can read):

“and a SyroPhonecian lady came to him, and fell at his feet saying, Son of David have mercy upon me’ but his disciples shooed her away. And he said to her, Lady, the Son of Man WAS SENT ONLY to the Elect of the Lost Sheep of the House of Yisro’el, and anyway, since when is it right to take the children’s bread out of their mouths and throw it away to the DOGS under the table?’

Not such nice speech, especially coming from a ‘loving’ Rebbe. Shows rather a decided inherent anti-Gentile, Zionist racism where the ‘Jews’ are the chosen sons, and the rest of the world’s gentile population are not worthy of the life. The same attitude is expressed again and again in the fragments found in caves 1-11 at Qumran, the socalled Dead Sea Scroll Corpus. No wonder they didn’t publish most of them until 60 years after they found them !

Here are some other fear-of-Hell-based Greek words placed into the ‘good Rebbe’s mouth:

(See Luke 16:23-24) Re: the Burning Valley of Hinnom outside Jerusalem (Gk. Gehenna) "In Hinnom where the rich [man] was in orment, [the rich man] looked up and saw Father Avraham far away, with Eleazar by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Avraham, have pity on me and send Eleazar to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire' "

(see Matthew 5:22-30) "Amen Amen I say unto you, anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to Judgment of Hinnom in the Last Days. Just as anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin, I say to you, anyone who says to his brother ‘Fool!' will be in danger of the fires of Hinnom…

'And If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it far away from you. It is better for you to lose one organ than for your whole body to be thrown into Hinnom ! And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away as well. It is better for you to lose another organ than for your whole body to be cast into Hinnom !’

If you read the material closely, or even not so closely, even a cursory reading of the 4 ‘council approved’ Greek gospels indicates that ‘Jeezuzz’ believed in the existence of Hinnom (modern English ‘hell’) as a place of fiery torment for the sinners in the ‘Last Days’ which of course, never came, but that is another matter...

Reply to post by Totakeke

Not true. When they asked Jesus what the greatest commadment was do you know what he said?

"LOVE the Lord your God with all your HEART..."

I see nothing speaking repentance and sinful ways, rather the mention of love...


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Originally posted by thomasc83
Do you all knowwho Jesus even was?. He was someone who you wouldn't even notice in a crowd, he was a gentle man that could silence the people against him without even raising his voice, he loved everyone. He didn't need to go on about hellfire and brimstone. He never scared anyone into believing.

This is getting silly, NO dude, Jesus didn't treat everyone with open arms and the way you talk, I find it inconceivable anyone would be yelling CRUCIFY HIM! about such a sweet and lovey guy. Jesus said many things people didn't want to hear and they called him names for it like blasphemer and heretic just like you are calling those christians who have the guts to speak the truth to those consumed by abominable sin.

But what do YOU do?? You come in here to undermine the effort telling them they aren't " true Christians" as if YOU are.

Christians like you are a dime a dozen they don't like to get ther hands dirty while the preach apostasy indirectly. No one here has said any homosexuals should be killed and if you didn't know it, not one time does that pastor in the OP say he is fixing to kill him some gays. NOT ONCE.

Jeez if every Christian were just about tickling the ears of the reprobate, we wouldn't see anyone ever convicted by sin because we are too worried about being called names like blasphemer and heretic

Originally posted by Sigismundus
Hey Thomas C83 – time to wake up and smell the ‘roasting flesh’ !

Why don’t you do yourself a BIG favour and VERY carefullly study ALL the Greek words placed into the mouth of your ‘Jesus’ (Gk. Iesous Aram. R. Yehoshua bar Yosef) in the (4) canonical Nicene Council approved ‘ Gospels’ and you might see the teaching of this Rebbe of yours a little differently.

Certainly, to judge from the vitriol placed into his mouth in the Greek Gospels, this man DID preach 'fire and brimstone' fairly often, and if every mangled 1st century Greek word is back-translated into Galilean Aramaic, you get some nasty words indeed: see Matt chapter 15:18-25 (a couple of hundred times in English, if that’s all you can read):

“and a SyroPhonecian lady came to him, and fell at his feet saying, Son of David have mercy upon me’ but his disciples shooed her away. And he said to her, Lady, the Son of Man WAS SENT ONLY to the Elect of the Lost Sheep of the House of Yisro’el, and anyway, since when is it right to take the children’s bread out of their mouths and throw it away to the DOGS under the table?’

Not such nice speech, especially coming from a ‘loving’ Rebbe. Shows rather a decided inherent anti-Gentile, Zionist racism where the ‘Jews’ are the chosen sons, and the rest of the world’s gentile population are not worthy of the life. The same attitude is expressed again and again in the fragments found in caves 1-11 at Qumran, the socalled Dead Sea Scroll Corpus. No wonder they didn’t publish most of them until 60 years after they found them !

Here are some other fear-of-Hell-based Greek words placed into the ‘good Rebbe’s mouth:

(See Luke 16:23-24) Re: the Burning Valley of Hinnom outside Jerusalem (Gk. Gehenna) "In Hinnom where the rich [man] was in orment, [the rich man] looked up and saw Father Avraham far away, with Eleazar by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Avraham, have pity on me and send Eleazar to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire' "

(see Matthew 5:22-30) "Amen Amen I say unto you, anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to Judgment of Hinnom in the Last Days. Just as anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin, I say to you, anyone who says to his brother ‘Fool!' will be in danger of the fires of Hinnom…

'And If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it far away from you. It is better for you to lose one organ than for your whole body to be thrown into Hinnom ! And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away as well. It is better for you to lose another organ than for your whole body to be cast into Hinnom !’

If you read the material closely, or even not so closely, even a cursory reading of the 4 ‘council approved’ Greek gospels indicates that ‘Jeezuzz’ believed in the existence of Hinnom (modern English ‘hell’) as a place of fiery torment for the sinners in the ‘Last Days’ which of course, never came, but that is another matter...

THANK YOU! You have studied more than the scriptures I see, you have studied the very personality of the man Christ Jesus.

Reply to post by Sigismundus

I hate to see your first biblical verse involving the syrophoenican lady taken out of context. Read the next few verses and tell me what Jesus subsequently did. Even if she wasnt the "elect".


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Hey Agree 2 Disagree--

So... and very....begrudgingly the 'good' Rebbe heals the daughter of that poor Lebanese woman, who was VERBALLY abused by him when all she did was have the nerve to come to him for help, or so the gospel story tells us...it STILL does not excuse that kind of zionist-racist language about master races v. inferior races...er....chosen people v. gentiles, Jeeezuzz or NO Jeeezuzz(I get all that racist language mixed up sometimes--since it is all basically the same kind of vomit with no place at all in the 'enlightened' 21st century !)

Some 'universa'l clan-god this YHWH of theirs !!

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Sigismundus]

Reply to post by Sigismundus

Jesus died so that everyone, not just the chosen, are able to know His Father. It's true while He was a man He was here for the "chosen" people. After he died however, there were no more "chosen" ones. We're all chosen, if we so believe.

To refute the racism remarks, you weren't present in the speaking of those words. When we as beings read something, we use our tone of voice. When I read that passage, I sense compassion and a soft caring voice. Not racism or hatred. It's all in the tone.


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Hi Agree2DisAgree--

So if tone is so important (something utterly irretrievable today since it came from the lost 'oral Galilean Aramaic streams of tradition' (Bultmann), how do you NICELY tell someone they are a DOG, exactly?

'Sorry lady, but dogs aren't allowed here...could you please take your gentile body parts away from my sight please? Thank you so much have a nice day...'

Christians are going to have to get over the fact that when you translate the Greek words all placed into R. Yehoshua's mouth in the gospel back into Galilean Aramaic, the results 'aint so sweet and perty' as they say.

Don't forget: the canonical Greek gospels circulated AFTER the Failed War of the Jews against Rome (i.e. post AD 70), so the final editors of the Greek Texts (who were naturally trying to reach out to a Greek Speaking, eventually gentile or at any rate, 'god-fearing' proselyte audience) tried very hard to 'neaten up' his often crude figures of speech here and there...but sometimes they left some of the vomit drooling from his lips (e.g. the 'gentiles are all dogs' phraseology which they SHOLULD have cleaned up if these Greek speaking Christians knew what was good for them !) which echoes the Dead Sea Scroll type blatant racist zionism of the earliest Nazorean Palestinian 'christianities' still comes shining through if you read what is actually on the page.

Even without any tonal considerations, much of the language placed into this Rebbe's mouth is far from non-racist/zionist and bespeaks a narrowminded Weltanschauung completely out of place in a 21st century world where 99.9999 percent of the planet is made up of 'unclean idolatrous gentile dogs' to use the phrase from the Dead Sea Scroll corpus.

Reply to post by Sigismundus

Regardless that I have no refute to the language that is used, it's still that - language. Much is lost in interpretation friend. Just because the interpretations could have been "cleaned up" as you say, they could have also been "muddied" so to speak.

His teachings on the other hand, show much love and compassion do they not?


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Hi Agree2Disagree--

'Love and Compassion', yes, certainly, that is ONLY for members of his OWN group whom he called 'neighbours' or 'brothers' which he taught to 'take care of them as the pupils of your own eyes', to be sure...

But to 'all those outside' of his little family of Nazorean Messianic Jews, i.e. gentiles, his attitude was more like 'let the dead bury the dead...' 'and let them eat nonsensical parables so that hearing they may hear and not understand' --- it is clear from what scattered tatters we see of the 'original message' buried in the Greek canonical gospel MSS that the Good Rebbe had no truck with Gentiles (e.g. 'do not appeoach any towns of the goyim, but preach ye the good news of the Kingdom [of David] to the Elect of the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel...heal the sick among them, cast out their daemons' &tc.), so we are not surprised at all that he would stoop to calling them 'Dogs' which was considered the 'lowest form of animal life' in the middle east in those days---the equivalent of calling someone in America today a 'loathsome cockroach'.

Can you REALLY say that kind of language is 'loving' and 'compassionate'? And the fact that he 'extended his definition of a Jew' to the Sammaritans (among which he was included, accroding to John's gospel in at least one place 'Thou art altogether a Sammaritan, and dost Thou teach US?' &tc. ) is no excuse for this kind of vile behaviour.

It was Saul of Tarsus (a man who never met 'Iesous' in the flesh but only in 'dreams and visions' that was able to re-direct and re-propagandize his own Greek speaking 'christian' (or god-fearing gentile) churches into a far more gentile-friendly environment mainly to gain more tithing paying converts, but even this 'Paul' ---despite claiming Roman citizenship said racist things like 'to the Jew first, of course, but then also the gentile' as if some kind of residual master race/chosen people Weltanschauung is still back there buried in the woodpile. You just cannot escape it.

In fact I do not think one today can EVER de-Zion-ize and de-Racist-ise any of the original Nazorean Christianities that were floating around in the earliest period before the Failed Jewish War agianst Rome---their language echoes and quotes the racist zionism of the dead sea scroll material almost verbatim, and it is heinous to be able to see it leak through the material like so many wine-stains--and this racism can only be traced back to the Rebbe himself, no matter how many later Pauls come along and try to clean up his mess in order to sell the 'message' (whatever that is today !) for the non-Jew, non-'chosen' gentile majority who have no need for middle eastern clan gods whose biggest thrill seems to be demanding blood sacrifices when he is not genociding Amalekites !

Reply to post by Sigismundus

Then why when questioned about the greatest cmmandement of them all he replies

"love the Lord your God with all your heart.....and the second is like it...love thy neighbour as you love thyself"?

To call Jesus of all people racist seems....well...laughable really. But then, that's just my opinion, from my perspective....

I've always seen it as I described before: yes there are the "chosen" ones, but He died so that everyone could share in the glory.


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Originally posted by Stylez

Originally posted by thomasc83
Do you all knowwho Jesus even was?. He was someone who you wouldn't even notice in a crowd, he was a gentle man that could silence the people against him without even raising his voice, he loved everyone. He didn't need to go on about hellfire and brimstone. He never scared anyone into believing.

This is getting silly, NO dude, Jesus didn't treat everyone with open arms and the way you talk, I find it inconceivable anyone would be yelling CRUCIFY HIM! about such a sweet and lovey guy. Jesus said many things people didn't want to hear and they called him names for it like blasphemer and heretic just like you are calling those christians who have the guts to speak the truth to those consumed by abominable sin.

But what do YOU do?? You come in here to undermine the effort telling them they aren't " true Christians" as if YOU are.

Christians like you are a dime a dozen they don't like to get ther hands dirty while the preach apostasy indirectly. No one here has said any homosexuals should be killed and if you didn't know it, not one time does that pastor in the OP say he is fixing to kill him some gays. NOT ONCE.

Jeez if every Christian were just about tickling the ears of the reprobate, we wouldn't see anyone ever convicted by sin because we are too worried about being called names like blasphemer and heretic

Jesus was crucified because of power hungry men who were more worried about politics in the church. He was called a blasphemer because he said he was the son of God. They knew that with his new ways of teaching, their old law, which they perverted to hold power, would be changed. The same way if a politician happened to get elected and were to try to expose the corruption of all world companies, international bankers, etc. and how they abuse the people, that person would be assasinated.

No, most people don't realize what they are doing. They dwell on hell because of fear. Jesus didn't come to spread fear. I'm just saying these people are missing the point of salvation. They think it's the norm. If they truly open their hearts to God, then they will see. Negativity only breeds negativity. Same thing for people who believe they can backslide and lose their salvation. If you truly embraced Christ as Savior and surrounded yourself with his love, you wouldn't leave his side. If you jump on the bandwagon for a while and then jump off, you never were truly saved.

You comment about the woman was also taken out of text as someone already said. So I don't need to touch that.

The comment about a select few is also impossible. That would defeat the purpose of Jesus dying on the cross for our salvation. He didn't die so only a few could be saved. He died for all.

As you said also about intepretation, I suggest you find more than a few resources to back your way of thinking and look at the Hebrew text in its' original form. You'll get the true meaning in the original mauscripts and translations. You're doing the exact same thing as most modern scientist and looking with bias and finding things to fit your way of thinking.

Jesus is love!!!!

Hi Agree2Disagree--

If you do not see the inherent zionist-racism even in the heavilly edited Greek words placed into the mouth of R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean Nazir ('Jeezzuzz') in the Nicene Approved Canonical 4 Greek Gospels, then you really need to take a VERY HARD LOOK at WHAT IS ACTUALLY BEING WRITTEN AND STATED in e.g. Matthew chapter 15, in English if that's all you can read...

It is even more racist-zionist in the Greek and even more racist-zionist when you start re-translating every Greek word back into Galilean Aramaic---by the time you do the last step, the words are near quotations from the racist xenophobic vomit found in the Dead Sea Scrolls (which you would ALSO have to read VERY closely, in English if that's all you can read at present)...

e.g. 'The BarEnasha ('son of man') was sent ONLY (Gr. EUTHEOS) to the LOST SHEEP OF THE ELECT OF THE HOUSE OF YISRO'EL..and anyway, SINCE WHEN IS IT RIGHT TO TAKE THE CHILDREN'S BREAD OUT OF THEIR MOUTHS AND THROW IT AWAY ON THE DOGS UNDER THE TABLE?'

This IS racist-Zionism, where 'the elect of the lost sheep of the house of Israel' are the 'children' and all others are unclean GENTILE 'DOGS' (like that poor Lebanese woman who DARED to come to the socalled SON OF DAVID for help with a bleeding child) and was kicked in the teeth for her trouble by this person you worship as some man-god.

You are going to have to REALLY do SOME SERIOUS CLOSE-READING of the NT texts if you are to see what is actually being placed into the Good Rebbe's mouth in the mangled hnad copied texts of the Greek Gospel material...despite centuries of textual copyists' dirty fingerwork trying to soften the nasty zionism of the original 'kerygma' of the earliest Nazorean churches (see Bart Erhman's beginningers books ref: textual clean up procedures of the pre and post Nicene Church, e.g. 'MisQuoting Jesus' ISBN 10-0-06-073817-0)

To give you one example of the cleanup process to make the gospel material 'more palatable' to goyim (i.e. non Jews) read the 4th Gospel (whoever wrote that mangled Greek book) : 'and Iesous said to the Sammaritan woman (at the well) he said, It is unthinkable that a Prophet should die outside of Jerusalem, for it is written, Salvation is from the Judaeans'---

However---the original quotation cited in the 4th Gospel is actually taken from the Aramaic Testament of Naphtali chapter 8:13 found amongst the tatters of the Dead Sea Scrolls from Cave 4:

'And my sons, know that in future generations, the Salvation OF ISRAEL shall come from JUDAEA...'

notice: ' The Salvation of ISRAEL (i.e. in the north) shall come from the Judaeans (in the south)' referring to the Assyrian invasion of BCE 722 when refugees from northern Israelitish settlments in Ephraim ran screaming for their mommies in Jerusalem (at a time when the population of Judah doubled then tripled then quadrupled over a period of 10 years).

But the writer(s) of the 4th gospel leave out the reference to Israel in the quote in order to make it 'more universal' i.e. palatable for the goyim. And this is JUST ONE example of more than 100 !!

You will have to dig a little deeper into your texts...just don't be too shocked at what you might find there !!





[edit on 8-9-2009 by Sigismundus]